The Future of the State Tournament

While everyone is thinking about it lets talk about the future of the Kids State Tournament. This year the executive board will take bids for the next three state tournaments (with the right involvement this can be changed to one or two years.) In its present format there are only two feasible locations for the tournament, Wichita and Topeka. It has been in Topeka for at least the last eight years (someone can probably give you the entire history. I know that it used to be in Henry Levit Arena, Gross Memorial Coliseum, and the Bicentennial Center before 16U was added.) There are many reasons it should move and I am sure the pro Topeka group can come up with a fair number to keep it there.

I am putting this post up so that a great number of you who are new to wrestling or have never been familiar with the process of chosing the site will learn and get involved. The executive board is comprised of elected and appointed members who will listen to presentations by both cities. There will be lots of points made by both groups. Admission cost, parking cost, bed tax sharing, concessions, bag searches, setup staff, security, etc. The last time this process was done I believe the ball was dropped and the decision became one of emotions instead of one based on the best package and the best interest of the future of the Kids State tournament. District 4's representation joined hands and voted against Wichita in spite of an economic package that was at least as good if not better. It doesn't take a geography expert to figure out that for almost EVERY member of District 4 this created a drive that was one to three hours longer. District 2's representation was not totally in attendance and so key votes were lost. Long story short, because of the way high school state was hosted by Wichita the Kids board vote wound up going to Topeka by one vote.

This decision is one of THE MOST important votes our board makes. YOU must make sure your elected members and district representation attends this meeting. YOU must make sure they are informed and you are informed. I honestly believe the process should require one meeting for presentations and then time to meet as districts to hear the pros and cons on each package and then another meeting to vote. It is my opinion that it is time for a change. The present practice of hotels in Topeka gouging our members is unacceptable. It is unacceptable for our represenatation to accept a bag search and no food/drink policy when nearly no one in our membership wants such. These two cities will FIGHT for this tournament! It is worth thousands of dollars to their economies and our membership should be able to negotiate into the package what WE WANT and what WE NEED! Get involved! Get informed!

Thanks for the information, Will. What venue in Wichita is likely to be in their proposal? Also, for folks traveling from the west/north-west, the coliseum is ~ 85 miles from the I-70/I-135 junction, while the ExpoCenter in Topeka is about ~ 105 miles. If they are coming from the south/south-west, then Wichita is a considerably closer location.

Being in district 1, my family can travel to Topeka in just about an hour, so we don't get fleeced for the motel...helps off-set the cost of the meals. Topeka did a good...no, they did a GREAT job of running yesterday's District tourney and it was really a great venue for that size. First tournament I have been to that there was adequate seating for everyone.

But my memory of the state tournament's there (two and three years ago), it seemed that there was not enough space, like most other tournaments, with the seat saving being worse than I ever imagined.

I agree that we should be able to negotiate things like the bag check/no outside food limitations. That should be involved in any future contract negotiations.

What about Salina Bi Center? Its centered in the middle of the state for everyone. Why is there only the two cities? And why cant there be a sat morning weigh in for people farther away? never did understand that. If you register for a weigh in ahead of time then there wont be so many walk ins. It could be done i think.

i would like to see it in wichita, from scott city it's about 4 hrs, from garden city to wichita around 3 and a half hrs and from dodge city, its around 2 and a half

Hotel rooms in Salina would be an issue there.It would be cool and fair to see it move to each different district every year.

Bring it back to wichita! I am appalled at what the capital plaza hotel does. Making you pay for rooms with a no cancellation or money back policy. We travel a lot and I have NEVER heard of a hotel doing this. We have had to cancel due to illness/injuries etc... and as long as it is within the cancellations policy time frame (usually 24 or less), you are not charged. They don't even have small refrigerators or microwaves. Most places have these now. They try to force you to eat at their expensive hotel restaurant. They are GOUGING us! Take it away from them. There are enough hotels in wichita and around that this would never happen.

Something doesn't sound right about your story gymmom. I'll buy your room back if you have had that problem. There are others standing in line that want rooms at the Capital Plaza for the weekend...just see the other posts on this forum.

i personaly liked the capital plaza, my boy did not make it to state, and were still trying to get a room there to go and support our fellow wrestlers. i would love to buy the room from you as well. let me know,

I for one think that the tournament should be in Wichita or Salina, it would be more centralized. I for one have had problems with hotel help being very rude at two different hotels there.

There are really not enough rooms in Topeka and that is why they are able to get away with making you pay cash up front with a two night minimum stay. Salina and Hays do NOT have adequate lodging opportunities. This is where we have to get outside of the box. We could shorten the season and state would consist of only 8U, 10U, and 12U wrapping up before high school state. Then we could have 14U and 16U after HS state to accomodate HS and MS wrestlers. If we did this the tournament could move from district to district. (Pittsburg, Wichita, Topeka, Hays, Manhattan, Salina).

Mark, The Capital Plaza contracts the rooms and the same clubs have had the rooms in their hands for years. I am pretty sure gymmom is right. She could resell her room but the hotel locks these clubs in. There is no way the average wrestling family is going to get an opportunity to stay there. THe Holiday Inn requires cash only (they will not accept a credit card.) You can compare rates from weekend to weekend (I haven't done this) but I would be willing to bet the rates are higher for this weekend than any other.

well i see it this way, if they are taking advantage of family's because there is not enough rooms. simple move it. wichita would be the ideal place to have it. plenty of rooms, food and all of that. it make sense for them to choose the better location.

i like topeka but what makes sense. the people who decide, should choose a location , that suits everyone and wichita is the perfect place hands down.

Do you folks who think Salina is the center of the state ever get south of I-70? If not, there is a whole big world south of there. To answer your question, the Salina arena is not big enough.

Topeka will be a wreck this weekend.

There is a Teamroping being held at the barn right next to the Expo Center. I have competed in it for several years now. I will be going to watch my son wrestle, so no roping for me this weekend.

Just on the average year half of the south east parking lot is full of ropers with horses and trailers.

I can't understand why they booked both events. I know several ropers that I had called and told them a month ago that rooms will be tight. Of course none of them could get rooms that are usually easy to get a month in advance.

This is going to hurt the roping and make it a complete (even more) mess around the Expo Center this weekend.

Everybody just be prepared for long lines in every resturant and lets all hope the hotels we all have had booked for a long time now hold up their end and don't double book.

On a normal year of this roping two weeks before it there are no rooms.

Everyone please double checks your reservations.

Our club reserved 25 rooms last year. We only needed 20. 5 of our club members wanted to stay on Saturday only. Guess what we either stay both nights or no nights. I'm sure they will jump up the price and make some poor sap pay double.

VOTE WICHITA!!!!

If this event was moved to Wichita I think there would be two great improvements!
1. I think that the room issue would almost totally disappear.
What % of wrestlers at state come out of the immeadiate Wichita area?
20%
25%
30%
I don't know but these people, and their families, and their guest would not need a room! They would get to sleep in their own beds!
2. I think the overall spectator count would go way up! I think more people would come watch because a majority of clubs are in the Wichita area.

There would also be multiple venues that would compete for this event!

I'm looking for downsides here and to ME the pros out weigh the cons!
PLEASE VOTE WICHITA!

I really think it is a high percentage than what you have, but I bet someone could find the number on what clubs are 50-60 miles from Wichita.

The talks need to start as soon as possible, they are already talking with the NCAA to get games in the new arena for 2009 or 2010 I think.

To be real honest for us non-Topekans it is pretty cool for the kids staying in the hotel, the capital etc..

Wichita would just be another wichita tournament after ahwile, but maybe not.

I don't make post very often but I do keep an eye on the Forum. This is one topic I tried not to post on but felt like I had to. For the most part I agree with Will C. and it is clear that he has talked in depth with the right people about this subject. However, Will I would like to talk with you and hear more on the parts I am not sure I agree with you on. If we can find time this weekend let's try to talk.

Jess Keith

now make sure that nobody goes over to the team roping and gets horse crap on their shoes and drags it in on the wrestling mats. im sure the same people that complained about the classic will be waiting foaming at the mouth just looking for a chance to get on here and complain about it.

Their bid to host the first round in 2010 was just denied by the NCAA. This should never be a problem because they would only host first round games if ever accepted and those would be the week of our district tournaments.

i think salina would be the most centrally located for everyone. as far as hotels abilene,mcpherson,and lindsborge are all only 30 minutes away, that is no longer than a trip across topeka or wichita with lights and traffic, and i bet if approached that those towns would be willing to help out also, because they would get some revenue also.

Maybe we need to have a disclaimer at the top of every forum for all the new people who wander in that says "NO, Salina cannot host a state tournament".

Thanks for the update, I wasn't 100% sure.

Topeka hotels do charge more. When we where checking on Hotel prices we where quoted $20-$30 more per night if we where with wrestling. My advice if you have not got a room do not tell them what you are in Topeka for!

Thats not very nice maybe you should look at the wrestling family post!!!

I have been to numerous wrestling tournaments at the expocentre, including last week's district 1 tourney. The tournament was so well run with so many mats going that it seemed as though it almost went too fast. The public and parents were kept in the stands and this allowed for a great amount of room for the kids and coaches to get ready for each match. Several of the mats were finished very early and this allowed the moving of matches and allowed wrestlers to use a couple of the mats on which to warm up. I have not been to a tournament in Wichita in years, but certainly would not agree that there is anything wrong with Topeka as a venue. There are plenty of nice hotels in Topeka (Ramada, Holiday Inn, Clubhouse Inn, Hampton Inn, Capitol Plaza, Holiday Inn Express, Hyatt Place, Courtyard by Marriott, etc. etc.) to accomodate everyone involved. There is truly something special by having state in Topeka. It is the biggest thing in the capitol city. Moving it to a bigger city like Wichita or Kansas City for that matter makes it just one of many other things happening in the month of March.

if anyone can use a corporate rate maybe try that. it will save you 5 or 10 dollars. then you can maybe buy a hotdog for that at the expocentre.

Here it goes...

Of the 1460 state qualifiers (SQ's) this year, 23% (340) are within 60 mi of Wichita. Of that same 1460, 17% (249) are within 30 mi of Wichita.

Holding the tournament in Topeka makes the average state qualifier this year travel 156 mi -- 227,000 mi travelled by state qualifiers alone. If the tournament were held in Wichita this year, the average wrestler would travel 137 mi -- 200,000 mi travelled by state qualifiers. So, that is about 20 less miles to travel to Wichita for the average state qualifier this year, and 27000 less miles travelled by state qualifiers total.

Assumptions (some people don't like them, but I do):
1) SQ's live reasonably close to each club's mailing address
2) SQ's will travel along the routes outlined by mapping software
3) SQ's will stay at hotels that are evenly distributed throughout each site's city (Wichita or Topeka)
4) Trackwrestling is correct on each club's qualifiers -- clubs such as 'Caney' and 'Caney Wardogs' that each qualified 4 wrestlers are actually 2 clubs
5) I haven't fat-fingered too many things

Conclusion: Smith Center is the center of the U.S.

If you want to see my data, let me know.

Good work, but it's actually Lebanon, and even then it's only the continental U.S.

I know there is a lot to it, but I think it would spice things up a lot to move it around. Not that I have any real grief with Topeka, I just think that if possible, it would be fun to have it in Wichita, Salina, Hays, or other places with adequate facilities.

Thanks again for the information. That's interesting.

Windjammer,
What assumptions did they make in concluding that Lebanon was the center? I would like to review those.

_________________________
"Heh heh heh. I have to laugh, b/c I've outfinessed myself. My foe, my enemy is an animal, and in order to conquer him, I have to think like an animal, and whenever possible to look like one." - Caddyshack

C C, that is good work.
Bottom line is where ever it is has to be large enough to hold the people that come and watch.
I think it would be nice to move it back to the Wichita area so that family and friends can come watch, but thats just me. And I think it is time for the people of the Topeka area to come down south and drop the 3 to 4 hundred dollars that we have been dropping in their down for years now.
The people that run the tournament do a great job, keep up the good work.

Actually it's Rugby, N.D. (North America's center.)

48°21'19"N 99°59'57"W

The three motels there would be swamped and the 500 mile rule would be violated.

That's the center of North America, not the United States. Let's have State at Lebanon. That way everyone in the United States can enjoy it. Except people from Alaska and Hawaii.

Show you how smart I am....lol

Great work in finding and compiling those numbers, I think it would be good for family members of mine anyways if it was in Wichita.

I still think going to Topeka for us (and kids) is a good thing. Those littler kids just love staying in a hotel, and having all the team member there.

I don't believe that we can host the state tournament at Rugby, ND. Bad idea Chief ... bad idea. I do like Will's ideas, however, on ending the 12&U season sooner, rotating amongst districts for hosting the state tournament, and then having 14&U and 16&U continue after MS and HS are over. I would vote for that!

_________________________
"Remember Danny - Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights makes a left." - Caddyshack

... I'm sorry but Caddyshack is one of my all-time favorites!!

Maybe we need to have a disclaimer at the top of every forum for all the new people who wander in that says "NO, Salina cannot host a state tournament".

_________________________
"We can do that; we don't even have to have a reason. All right, let's do the same thing, but with gophers!" - Caddyshack

I guess I should have added Hays to my idea!

_________________________
"We can do that; we don't even have to have a reason. All right, let's do the same thing, but with gophers!" - Caddyshack [/quote]

Sorry,

I forgot the Yuppie Rule.

Yuppie Rule

Section 1(a)

All people not from down east will travel annually and bring a lot of money. They will try to cram into one hotel and will pay 7.95 for Wi-Fi. They will be at a competitive and financial disadvantage.

Section 1(b)
Nothing else can be considered.

Section 2(a)
This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with Hays and Salina not having a facility large enough to handle a state tournament. In fact I don't believe either has even bothered to submit a bid the past few contracts because they know they aren't capable of handling this tournament. A bid would be necessary in order to first consider either city and their facilites.

it sure is a long drive from far western ks, to bad it couldnt be more centralized.

kinda sounds like we all need to go into the hotel business. heck look at all the cities that need hotels just for one tournament. how about it nix. you build the roof, i know a plumber, i know a framer, i know others in that line of work and i am damn good at giving orders. just think of all that money we could give back to wrestling. some of you probably think im joking but just look at the opportunity.

I think people aren't aware of just how many hotels there are in Topeka. Most of the motels and hotels in Topeka are on the west side of Topeka. If you try to find a room close to the venue it may not be possible, but to go from Wanamaker road to the expo is a ten minute drive. Topeka supports one of the biggest drag race venues in the country and we have 10's of thousands of people show up to Heartland Park each year to watch the races. Granted many people stay in motor homes but we still manage to accomadate thousands of people. Our state tournament is small potatoes compared to some of the events held in the capital city. Call around and check out some of the Hotels and motels in other parts of town and I think you'll find it's easy to get to the venue from any location in topeka. Topeka is growing fast and every year new motels and hotels are being built to accomadate not only Heartland Park but the Kansas Speedway just down the road.

I was told last night that people from Mulvane were still calling to find rooms and were quoted between $200 and $250 a night for a room that is usually less the $100. We ended up giving them 3 or 4 of our rooms. Also, when we were looking for rooms they would asks us if we were wrestlers. On one of the calls we said we were with the Boys Scouts. They offered us $89 a night vs. the $129 a night we would of had to of paid because we were wrestlers.
I have also been out to eat in a lot of places and some places will seat non wrestlers first. We had a group of 5 and they would seat other groups of 5 first. I just think that some of the businesses in Topeka treat us like we are a hassle instead of an additional business opportunity.
That's a shame!

BLT I;m sure I've never had a hotel ask me why i'm in town and then quoted me another rate.I travel alot and if someone wants to know why i'm in town I sure wouldn't have to lie to them. I would simply tell them it was none of there business. My reply would be of this nature beacuse Hotels simply want to know (A) How many rooms will you be needing (B)What size of a room do I need (c) How long will you be staying and (D) Will you be paying with cash or charge. Also I would imagine since your online that you reserve your rooms online ( atleast that's what I do when I need a room) and at no time does it ask you during your online reservation why you are in town (atleast not any that I have done.) Also I've lived in the Topeka vacinity all my life and i'm pretty sure we don't have a motel or hotel that charges $200 or $250 for a regular room. One more thing, most of the restaurants in Topeka (that I have to wait in line to be seated) wouldn't have a clue if my son wrestled unless I told them. Our tournament is a big deal for us but unless your involved in the wrestling community the majority of Topekans wouldn't know you from the next person who walked in the door. I think maybey you were seated after someone else beacuse of the size of your party or the preference of your seating ( this may be a real possibility think about it.)

Last year we stayed in Lawrence the first night and then moved to Topeka for the second night. It wasn't that far to drive for one night. By the second night, the rooms seem to be more plentiful in Topeka, so not everyone has a 2 night minumum.

As I see it there are 2 options...

Option 1) Tell your son you are not going to State because of the expensive rooms and all of the mean restaurant people, then gather your family around your computer in your cozy home in the best darn location in Kansas and follow the action on Track Wrestling.

Option 2) Quit complaining.

Wow! That is the nicest way that anyone has every questioned my integrity. Thank You!
The name of the hotel that is charging over $200 a night I am not aware of because it was Mulvane people still looking for rooms. We assisted them because we didn't think it was right that they were getting treated like that!
The places that seated other parties of the SAME SIZE were Red Robin and Cracker Barrel. Its not to hard to tell when a group of wrestlers walk into a place. We are wearing shirts and jackets that show our team support.
The hotel that gave us different room rates because we were not wrestlers was Days Inn.
I do not book online. I call because a lot of times you can talk to a manager and work the price down when you are blocking 8 to 10 rooms. I usually get great deals and corporate discounts when I look for rooms. That is why I book the rooms for my whole club everytime we travel and do it over the phone instead of on line. That is when they ask why or who you are with I'm not rude to them and say "its none of your business because I'm trying to work a deal"!

I don't get on here to tell fairy tales and bed time stories. There's no reason to. So please don't ASSUME that!
If you have anymore questions please feel free to PM me!

BLT...I don't think anyone was questioning your integrity. CBR was simply trying to explain what he knows about Topeka through his personal life experiences.

Here is what I did yesterday. I called every hotel in Topeka and asked about room availability and rates. Most are charging $89/night. A couple of the higher end establishments topped out at $119. Yes...there was one that I gave a piece of my mind because they should have been in the $89 range (or lower catagory and were charging $100). The Visit Topeka group does a pretty good job policing this...however there are a "few" opportunist out there, as there would be anywhere the State Tournament is hosted. If I were in your shoes and I thought I was being taken advantage of, I would not give these people my business. There are other options in the Topeka and surrounding communities that will accommodate you. They will soon get the hint. Nobody I called came anywhere close to $200 or $250 a night that you mention.

Availability...most said that they are full for now; but they all anticipated rooms opening up today. Wednesday night was a common deadline for clubs with "blocks" of rooms reserved to be either released or paid for. No hotel I called required cash payment. Only a few required a two night stay. So if you are still looking for rooms I would suggest calling again today. Many of the hotels were placing people on lists to fill the rooms vacated by other clubs with "blocks" reserved...but I would still try. I travel a lot through the year for wrestling, baseball, and football...so I know the drill. Get in early or late for the best location and deals. Early is the best bet, but if you chose to book late don't give up. I am sure rooms will open up. Lancer Lou's suggestion is a good on too. Topeka is a 30 minute drive on 4-lane interstate to Lawrence and 45 minutes to the west side of KC. They both have hotels with rooms available. Heck I have been on trips to Wichita that took me 30 minutes to get across town...and there are places in Wichita I wouldn't stay with my family.

There is a lot of hear-say going around on this board. If you have specific complaints or need help I am willing to either help or get you in touch with the people who can. I do not have the time to be your travel coordinator...but I am proud of my city and I am willing to help if needed. I can't do anything about hear-say...but it is a bid year as Will has pointed out and it is natural for one to question the motives behind any second hand information.

Mark Stanley
jrvikingwrestling@yaoo.com
785/224-5161

One more thing on this topic...another reason that hotels are asking what group you are in is that a few of them are signed up to give the State a portion of the bed tax money collected. In order for this to happen you have to declare why you are in town. This is not that uncommon at large evets. ...so be proud you are wrestlers and tell them that on every occasion. Make your presence known about town.

There was an article in the Topeka Capital Journal that ran last summer and our event rated very high in the list of events hosted in town in regards to the economic impact on the city. The management of the businesses in town appreciates your patronage. You may run into a hostess that has another opinion...but I wouldn't hold that against our community; you'll find that anywhere. Just adjust your tip accordingly…I do; they’ll get the hint or “tip” as it were.

Mark,that was very well put. I would also like to ad that I'm very proud of my city and the people that help it be a great place to live. I don't say much on this forum beacuse i like to see and read the thoughts of people in our wrestling community.I would rather stay behind the scenes when it comes to some of these topics. I enjoy wrestling and I have loved this sport my whole life. I would take my son to western Kansas if that is where the state tournament is to be held and I would do it without blinking an eye. I would pay outragous hotel fees, buy expensive food, and smile the whole time,just so my son could have his day of glory next Sunday afternoon.You can't put a price on that. No way, no how! Finally,Topeka is a great place for this tournament but the middle of nowhere comes available we'll be there with bells on.

Sportsfan,

Are you saying that the organization is soliciting bids from Salina and Hays and they are declining to bid because they feel our needs can be better met in Topeka?

I guess that settles it.

Thank you.

I'm saying that if my memory is correct neither city submitted a bid the last two contracts. Even if they had their facility is not large enough to handle the tournament so it would have been rejected. Our only options are Topeka or Wichita.

I don't have any problem with Topeka. Any ill feelings I have about the location are less important to me than the joy of being there and taking part in something special.

However, if you would be so kind to look at a map of the State of Kansas, you will see that Topeka is situated very similar to Garden City. Opposite corners, but pretty much the same relative to the rest of the state. Put it in Garden City for 10 years in a row and see if anyone from D1 complains.

My wife and I both will require a vacation day Friday. All of our kids will have to miss a day of school. We will spend about $150 in gas and $178 in hotel. We will eat out at least 5 meals and will spend nearly 2 hours waiting for seats in Restaurants. Our wrestlers will ride in cars for several hours and sleep on strange beds. My kid's grandparents have never got to see him wrestle at state.

We have to go through the process of booking rooms months in advance and hoping we qualify, or begging for rooms from someone who reserved a whole hotel.

Like I said, I'm okay with Topeka. Having it in Salina, Hays, or Manhattan may not be feasible. It probably isn't, but when somebody asks the question, it's okay. It's not necessary to imply that they are new and dumb. You should acknowledge their plight and be glad you're not dealing with it.

After further analyzing the data...
If the tournament were in Wichita this year
The average travel distance would be 137 mi
25% would travel 67 mi or less
75% would travel 188 mi or less
10% would travel 240 mi or more
5% would travel 270 mi or more

With the tournament in Topeka this year
The average travel distance is 156 mi
25% will travel 67 mi or less (exactly the same as Wichita)
75% will travel 200 mi or less (10 mi more than Wichita)
10% will have to travel 310 mi or more (70 mi more than Wichita)
5% will have to travel 350 mi or more (80 mi more than Wichita)

The assumptions I previously listed were used for the analysis

Conclusion: With the tournament in Topeka, the average travel isn't much different than it would be if it were in Wichita. However, the western 10% of the wrestlers are bearing the burden for the rest of us with the tournament in Topeka.

I like visiting western KS and would gladly go to state at Hays (the center of KS) -- that is if we split it up like Cokely outlined.

Cokeley for president!

I'll second Cokeley's nomination for president.

If you are having problems locating motel rooms for this weekend, contact the Topeka Conventions & Visitors Bureau 800-235-1030. I'm sure they will help you locate motels at reasonable rates.

If you have problems that occur at restuarants or motels while you are in Topeka this weekend, PLEASE let Leanna Grater or Ned Price know about these issues by telling us in person or through email. We are in contact with the Topeka Organization / Businesses throughout the year and THEY ALSO want to know of problems.

We've already been called about a couple issues with motels BUT when I personally called the motel, there IS NOT a problem. As I said in the letter that was mailed to ALL club directors, stay in contact with your motel throughout the year. Get them your rooming list ON TIME, release any rooms you DO NOT need, and IF they require payment before arrival, get it taken care of. If there are problems, let them know. Most of the ones I've taked to are more than willing to work with you --

As I said, if there are issues this weekend, let Ned or myself know about them.

Good luck this weekend at Kids State!!


Leanna Grater
Tournament Committee Member

I never implied anyone was dumb and I don't think being new is an impairment and thus should not be taken as a slight. It does get old for some of us who have been around to have to keep answering the same questions about facilities, thus why I recommended the disclaimer at the top of the forum.

"Maybe we need to have a disclaimer at the top of every forum for all the new people who wander in that says "NO, Salina cannot host a state tournament".

All the new people who wander in may find this statement condescending. Maybe not.

Regardless, you are not required to answer any questions which you find burdensome and all the new people wandering in have no way of knowing which questions have been asked and answered. They would have no way of knowing for example that Hays doesn't want the tournament.

I think the point was that you shouldn't hi-jack a thread without reading what was already discussed.
_________________________
"I've seen (a wrestler) (shoot a single leg) through a concrete wall. Men have emptied entire (technique toolboxes) at them and hit nothing but air, yet their strength and their speed are still based in a world that is built on rules. Because of that, they will never be as strong or as fast as you can be." - The Matrix

Oh.

Well then, never mind.

State has been in Topeka since my oldest started wrestling, he is now 21. I say it's time to move it to Wichita! I don't mind the traveling but would love to actually get to have state in Wichita and not have to travel!! Wichita has plenty of hotels in and around the area. Bring it to Wichita PLEASE!!! ;-)

We had 25 rooms reserved at the Fairfield Inn comfirmed 3 times with a credit card cancelled because we could not give them the names of the people staying in the rooms. We found this out on Monday the 24th. We started calling every hotel/motel in Topeka and found rooms at the Super 8 with no pool for $110.00 normaly $49.00. When our people called to put their names on these rooms the were told that the room would cost $150.00 a night with a two nignt min. that sounds like gouging to me. Maybe my definition is wrong let me know if it is. I am the Head Coach of our club and will not be going this weekend because we had such a hard time finding rooms for the kids that made it to STATE. Last weekend we found rooms at the Capital Plaza for $69.00 a night 4 days before District tourn., we were asked what brought us to town and we told them that we were just passing through town. Then we heard that the Turner Club was locked into a price of $94.00 a night and could not get out of them because they had to sign a contract, again how is this not gouging the wrestling family. My vote goes to Wichita!!!!

Price gouging typically only applies when it relates to emergency situations such as Tornadoes, Oil shortages, etc. The market dictates the price of motel rooms just like any other commodity. The same reason why people pay thousands of dollars for Super Bowl tickets. Motels will raise the price of their rooms to the the highest amount they think they can sell them for. If people are willing to pay $150 a night for them they will sell them at that price, if no one bites they will lower it slowly until someone does.

In point of fact most motels have higher rates on the weekend than they normally do during the week because they anticipate more people will be staying during the weekend than other times. The only way you can assure yourself of a decent rate is to book your hotel WAY WAY in advance. You can use services such as Priceline.com and book up to 330 days in advance. You can usually get a room for $50-$70 if you book it nearly a year in advance. Now of course you don't know how many rooms you need that far in advance, but you can always sell them if you don't need them.

Believe me Wichita motels/hotels will do the exact same thing given the same situation, so don't be mislead into believing that. In fact I would venture to say that the larger hotels in Wichita are probably owned by the same investment groups or individuals that own the Topeka hotels.

While there is some truth to Nigel's comments, he is missing some critical facts:

Wichita has over 7,000 hotel rooms available while Topeka has just over 3,000.

When the hotels/motels require clubs to pay with cash or check instead of a credit card they are making 1 to 3 percent more profit. Take that times the $119 per room in the Capital Plaza hotel. It will more than cover the room funds paid to USAWKS.

The Wichita presenters promised control over unfair pricing practices and a better mechanism for controlling the funds that would be paid back to USAWKS for rooms occupied by wrestling families.

Well thank you for you inclusion Will. I was unaware of the details concerning the number of rooms available and what if any kinds of control that a city would take over it's hotels. My post was simply to inform those that may not understand the supply and demand economics, and the reasons for the price fluctuations. I personally don't have any opinion on where Kids State should be held year after year. Its always been in Topeka for my entire wrestling career some 20 years now. If it is time to change locations, then so be it, it won't hurt my feelings one way or another.

To think, some of us didn't believe the Arby's Roast Beef Academy would ever benefit Nigel!

Move it to Wichita, that is all that needs to be said....

I think people need to be aware of the scientific facts before voting on which site's proposal to accept. While not being affected by hosting it in Topeka or Wichit, I agree on moving.

Dear Wrestling families & enthusiasts

I had heard through the grapevine that there was a lot of conversation about the future of your event in Topeka on this site and logged on to find out for myself. Once I read the postings, I felt that I needed to register myself so that i could share the position of the community and Lodging Industry. I am the Director of Operations for Parrish Hotel Corp. here in Topeka, the Past President of the Topeka Lodging Assn and maintain constant contact with Visit Topeka Inc..

I can't possibly express to each of you in a short internet posting how much this community values your business. The Lodging Association membership has had continued conversations about how critical KS Kids Wrestling is to our community and what type of things we can do to make sure you all feel welcome while you are here. You will find local hoteliers (Lodging Association Representatives) in each of the hospitality suites at the Expo Center both on Saturday and Sunday. Please feel free to introduce yourselves and let us know if you have any problems at all with your respective hotel or elsewhere in the community.

On a second note, I appreciate several of the comments from others that recognize that there will be bad apples in whatever community you visit. Their are a very small handful of hotels here that give visitors to Topeka a very sour taste by drastic price inflation during major events in town. These are the same hotels that also don't maintain good relationships with the Visitors Bureau, Lodging Assn. or elsewhere in the community. I am very certain that the majority of you found rooms in the $60 to $100 range which is very standard for our market.

While in Topeka, please notice how many Restaurants and Hotels with marquee's welcome KS Kids Wrestling. We hope that you patronize those businesses that take the opportunity to welcome you to our community. I am pretty certain that you will recognize that Topeka appreciates your business.

I recognize and appreciate that Ks Kids Wrestling has been in Topeka for many years. The whole community appreciates that as well. There are many pro's & con's to moving your event to Wichita, but please know that the Topeka community values your business and will do what it takes to retain it. We hope to continue to support and host your event for many years to come.

Thank you for reading this lengthy posting.

Travel safely, enjoy your visit, and good luck.

Please feel free to contact me if there is anything I can do to make your visit to Topeka more comfortable.

Bill Michaud
Director of Operations
Parrish Hotel Corporation
bmichaud@parrishhotels.com
785.215.8242 (office)
785.213.7745 (cell)

With it in Topeka, we are requiring KS kids state qualifiers as a whole to travel 54000 more miles (27000 one way) for state than if it was in Wichita. And, it's the western KS wrestlers that are doing it for us. Thank you, western KS wrestlers and parents for bearing this burden.

In fairness, western Kansas folks travel 27000 miles just for dinner out on a Friday night. They are used to travel, but thanks just the same!

So, 10% of the people in western KS will travel to Topeka on a Friday night for dinner??? I'm not buying that one.

_________________________
"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish." - Caddyshack

Why change something that has worked for 8 or so years???
One thing in life that I have come to realize...YOU CAN NEVER PLEASE EVERYONE ALL OF THE TIME...

yea with the gas price's the way they are, alot of us here in western kansas are trying to get greyhound to give us a bus, so we can carpool those 27000 miles on friday just to eat dinner.

it only makes since to find a venue large enough, enough motels, and equal driving distance for all parts of the state.

finding a venue should not be based on money, it should be in the best interest of all kansas wrestling members.

i don't believe in the it's worked for years why change it now theory. i believe wichita is a good idea and plenty of motels, food it just makes sense.

and i am not pro wichita, i like topeka. going to wichita is still a 4 hour drive for us out here in western ks. but like i said the deciding factor where it should be held should be what's in the best interest of our family's.

I am in D1 and I'm not totally oppposed to Wichita, but one good thing I would like to give special thanks to super 8 in Topeka. Very clean and a double queen was 65. Thanks to them for also being so nice to work with over the phone. 10 out of 10

I read this forum often but until this weekend have never felt the need to post. This was my son's second year to make it to state and my second year to "experience" the Expo Center. I just do not feel that neither this venue nor the town of Topeka can handle a tournament of this size in a good fashion. The hotel experiences listed above are only a portion of my concern. Other problems include inadequate parking, high traffic stairs and hallways, long line in bathrooms (my son nearly missed his match due to lines on Sat. morning after the parade), the up and down arrows to get onto the floor ( again even though my son was up next on the mat in front of him, and their was no one coming up the stairs, the man made him go all the way around to the other side,-he ended up running up to his mat and stepping right on for his turn-not mentally prepared due to bathroom and line frustrations), The one stairwell to the exhibition hall was at times extremely crowded, and finally for anyone who is slightly larger than normal like my self, the small seats and lovely metal arm rests were very frustrating (painful)-one grandpa from our club could not sit in the seats and left early because of this problem. I have been to the Kansas Coliseum in Wichita, Salina Bicentennial Center and other venues around and never had this bad of a problem.

It is for these reasons, I wish to request that the board of directors and the powers that be will move this tournament to Wichita.

Julie Scott
Circle Jr. Wrestling
tornadoalley@cox.net

I hear what you are saying about gas prices, but I don't buy it as it's only one weekend...and again...

You can never please everyone all of the time.

I just had to add in the if it's not broken theory...too many times I see people trying to "fix" things and it only makes it worse.

i would agree you can not please every one, and it's not the gas price's that would bother me. it is the 6 and 1/2 hour drive 1 way .

no one in eastern kansas has any where close to that drive time. if it was held in wichita it would equal about the same. still less of a drive for any one out east.

i do not see a downside of having it in wichita. like i said i like topeka, and if it is held there we will be more than happy to go there. but wichita make's sense.

Until now, I have had no complaints with the Expocentre. I have simply argued that a rotation, if possible, to any place other than Salina because it's too small, would be more equitable to the owners of the organization.

Now, I would like to publicly air my first grief.

The USAWKS State Tournament is sufficiently taxing on the facility without adding the "Worst Horse Trailer Parking in the Tri State Area Tournament" on the same weekend.

Anyone who complained about horse dooty? at the Classic should livid over the parking lot Saturday morning. How many coaches and wrestlers walked through the stuff on the way to the parade of athletes Saturday morning? Leaving the parking lot was not an option for many of us for some time on Saturday due to the parking lot insanity. I literally could not move our vehicle 10 feet in any direction when we left Saturday.

I am from hays for the people that are saying state should be in hays I dont think Hays has enough lodging for a state tournament yet. We are slowly getting new hotels but i dont think there would be enough.

Where do you live nix? I drove from Topeka to Wakeeney & back last night after state. Took 7 hours round trip. That was around 500 miles total. I did think about the district 4 folks & actually passed several on my way there.

I know that the hotel situation in Topeka was not good we had a family from our club who just wanted to come up to watch on saturday and sunday and there for only needed a room for saturday night. they called all around and they had to book a room in Lawrence! They were told at several hotels that the price would be 75-120 for each night for two nights or one night for 150-240. They all said that they had to rent the room for both nights or nothing even if you didn't stay. There were also no cancelations even in case of emergency after monday. Also everyone had to prepay by cash on monday at the hotel where we stayed and then every person had to have a creditcard on file with enough credit to cover the cost of the room even though we had already paid cash. I had to beg them to put my parents room on my card because they said they only wanted one room per card incase of excessive damages. WE are grown ups come on. Also I have stayed at this hotel on other occations and I have never had to prepay and was always allowed to reserve the room and hold it with a credit card (2 rooms). They are taking advantage of wrestling families and it is sick. And yes they had a sign outfront that said welcome wrestlers. Also we had a single dad in our club who doesn't have a credit card and had paid the cash and they did not want to let him rent without the credit card. We had to use someone elses card and it had to be a different card then they had rented thier room with! I don't care where state is held, it is the same drive for me! I just want somewhere that will appriciate our business not do whatever they want just becuase they know that we will still stay because we have no choice.

Several people have made mention of having to pay for rooms with cash. In all my years of traveling around the U.S. I have never had to pay for a room in cash. What am I missing here? Why the cash requirement?

I had the EXACT same experience at the airport hotel in Tulsa back in November. I was not happy, disagreed with the policy, was made ware of the policy in the lobby of the hotel! What I'm saying is this is not a Topeka thing.

Our team has stayed at the same hotel for the past 4 years and have never had this problem until this year. They also made us overnite them a check and would not let us even pay with our club debit card. There were no cancellations no matter what after Monday the 24th and everyone still had to present a credit card at check in. I asked why the policy change since we had never had to do that before and of course no one had an answer. Some of our parents would have gone home on Saturday when their kids got beat out but had to pay for the room anyway so ended up staying. There was also a large group having a conference at the same time we were there all weekend long and I really wanted to ask if the hotel stuck them with the same policy. Wichita would be about 2 hours closer for us and we have family in that area so of course we are excited at the possibility of state being moved there but I have to wonder if the hotels there would also slowly start to enforce the same kind of policies?

Firstly, thank you all for being in Topeka last weekend. On behalf of my company, that operates the H.I. Express, Holidome and Ramada, and my colleagues with the Topeka Lodging Association I would like to let you know that we really appreciate you being in our city.

I certainly can't explain or defend any specific hotel policy or practice other than my own, but I thought it might help for everyone to understand some of the challenges the hotels face. First let me say that no hotel stays in business by having policies that anger customers. That is really a losing situation. We really all desire to provide good lodging accomodations and friendly service at a fair price for the market and demand. Here are some things that happen on our side that have created the policies that different hotels put in place.

1) Every wrestler in the state with any hope of making the state tournament calls & makes reservations for rooms starting a full year in advance.

2) Some teams even reserve blocks at separate hotels. Because we operate 3 hotels in the city, we found that 4 teams had blocks at two different hotels this year. One team that held 10 rooms at each of 2 properties actually used 3 rooms this past weekend. Before we discovered the double booking, we had held 20 rooms and turned literally hundreds of callers away saying we were full.

3) Hotels don't get paid for empty rooms, so over the past several years of hosting this tournament we have been "trained" to overbook and wait & see how many cancellations come on the Monday after qualifying. One of my hotels was overbooked by 75 rooms 30 days in advance and ended up with 5 rooms available last Thursday night. The overbooking was completely by accident as a staff member hadn't entered all of our contracts into the computer, but none the less, it worked out in the end. Every hotel maintains a history of what happened last year and have learned approximately how many rooms they can overbook each year based on the history.

3) Once a hotel becomes "full" hundreds of reservations calls are told that the hotel is full. Many of the wreslters scramble to find rooms in Lawrence or in hotels that they wouldn't normally select. They even are forced to accept one of the 2 or 3 properties in the city that drastically raise their rates on high demand times. I haven't done an official survey of all the properties in Topeka, but I would guess that this tournament requires about 3,000 out of the approximately 3,500 rooms in Topeka.

4) Once hotels become full, we start turning away business. We hold rooms for families & fans and tell others that we don't have a room for them. Neither the hotels OR the wrestlers know who is going to win or lose on Saturday. It's no fun, but some people lose. They would like to not have to pay for Saturday night, but the hotels have turned away literally hundreds of other potential customers because we had a reservation for that person. I think that this is what has created the 2 night minimum stay at many hotels.

5) One nice thing about credit cards is that they aren't guaranteed payment. If you get charged for something you don't like, you call your credit card company and tell them that you didn't authorize the charge or get the item that you were charged for. The reason for the cash / check payment is linked to the situation above. If your son loses on Saturday and you would rather go home on Saturday, you go home. It feels bad enough to lose and have to go home, but to have a hotel take your money for a Saturday night stay as a result of a policy you didn't like in the first place just makes it all worse. When your credit card bill comes, you write them a nice letter that disputes the charge and most of the time, you win. This THE primary reason behind cash payment. It really has nothing to do with the extra 2.49% credit card fees that we pay on 99% of the rooms rented all year long.


I apologize that this is so lengthy. My sole purpose in drafting this long explanation is so that some of you know that servicing your group is not without challenges. Challenges that aren't anyone's fault or responsibility and aren't specific to Topeka hosting the Tournament. Working through those challenges with you is quite worth it to us. This is evidenced by the fact that we continue to fight to retain your business in Topeka.

You are all absolutely correct that most of the policies that you find in effect in Topeka during wrestling weekend aren't in place the rest of the year in Topeka. I would guess that Wichita hotels are going to have the same experience that we have in Topeka and it won't take long for them to start with the same practices. These practices aren't something that we invented in Topeka, but common industry practices that occur when an event such as yours drives the demand for rooms. Many of your members have posted that they have experienced policies that they don't like as they travelled to other cities for other events.

I'm not sure how this email has come across to you, so I'll say again that it's purely explanatory. Some of reasons may seem reasonable, others may not. If nothing else, I felt that someone needed to provide some reason as many of the postings on this site simply wanted to know why.

Please call me if there is anything I can do for you on this matter or any other.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope to see you in Topeka for many years to come.

Bill Michaud
Director of Operations
Parrish Hotel Corp.
785.215.8242
bmichaud@parrishhotels.com