8 and under hwt's over 125#s

What are the boys who are over 125 supposed to do when it comes to the qualifying tournaments. There are several kids out their weighing well over 125. Are they just out of luck? Every other age group has an actual hwt division.

Yup, they are beat.

My suggestion is to start looking for any of the big National tournaments left. Liberty, Reno etc. Because their season is done in KS come state time. Our son was 5'4" 150lbs last year in 8&U and we didn't even bother wrestling in KS due to this. There will be a bunch of good wrestlers not going to state due to this situation. OK & MO are more open minded though and you will even get wrestle in your own age bracket.

Good Luck

yep, in OK you can wrestle up to 275#, regardless of age. however, their season is almost over...regionals are Feb 14.

I have a concern re: these 8 & under kids that are over 125# - my child is one of them, and he wants to go to state - we are dieting so he can drop the weight (not fun) Today my son and I was talking to one of the other kids in his age group about state and he said he had to drop weight to go to state, and we said we are too so we are dieting, this other kid told us he takes a pill that makes him lose 9lbs. in 3 days! I am just floored by this! They are 8 years old! What are we teaching our children and what are we doing to their bodies - I am just as competitive as the next person, but I will not give my kids drugs so they can do any sport unless it is medically necessary - I won't even allow my kids to drink energy drinks!

I think that there is a safe way to diet and cutting out sugar and carbs would be the safe way. We had people in our club who are pretty good sized kids and they cut out that stuff and they have maintained a safe weight for over 3 years. I have a 12 yr old who is 5ft 4in and she doesn't even weigh 125lbs. Have you talked to their ped. about this and what do they say. My daughter was close to 100lbs at 7yrs old and I talked to the dr and they had found a medical condition and she lost 20 after it was under control. I don't believe in cutting weight and I think that is great that he is out there getting exercise. Losing 9lbs in 3 days is not safe. I think that they should be able to wrestle state but remember there is always next year. Work hard over the summer and then maybe he will be able to safely lose the weight and then wrestle next year. Good Luck

My step-son is also one of the bigger kids in the 8&U age group. I agree with these kids being able to go to state. Not all of them are just fat kids like you make it sound. My step-son's father is 6'9. Garrett is a big boy. He doesn't junk he plays football and he wrestles. He just happens to weigh 143 and is 9. His birthday is Dec 27th. He shouldn't be penalized because of his genetics. He's a very active kid he's just big.

First of all, not happy to hear that people are resorting to drugs to lose weight. That kind of weight loss sounds like dehydration to me. Very dangerous business if you ask me. Stick with a proper diet and working out more frequently.

Second, better just get used to it, this is not about to change. Nobody cares about this except the family's involved based on past experiences and posts here. My son is in the bottom half of 10U this year and we will be lucky to go to state this year. Let alone even have a chance to go next year when he would be a the top of his age bracket. People who know him will tell you he is not fat either just very big for his age. I figure he has maybe one or two more chances for state in KS until he is too old to do it any longer. I am instead going to focus on making him stronger w/ weights and building his stanima and skills and entering him into National Tournaments where the real prestige and competition is. I would think college recruiters would be way more interested to hear that he is placing in National Tournaments than State. State is state, it isn't the end all be all of everything. It is just the big meet at the end of the year in KS. Everyone puts a lot of emphasis on state but when wrestlers are excluded due something like this it puts a tarnish on the whole thing in my opinion. So I figure if other states can work around it, then there must be an issue with the governing body and not the wrestler.

Thirdly, it would prob be in the best interest of the children who are heavier or overweight to actually be doing this sport. Good exercise, team involvement, family involvement, and a chance to excel in something. But instead we run them off saying your too fat or hey you can wrestle kids who are 2-3 years older who most likely have more experience and will pin you in 15 sec so you will feel deflated. How positive is that!!! What is message we are sending to the kids when we do this...

Anyway, yes I am bitter about this but we are trying to move ahead with a positive plan. I would suggest that you do the same or put them in another sport. Troy Fowler

Nate also participates in:
Full contact football 2 years
Swim team 2 years
Karate 1 year
AAU Track & Field 4 years
Scouting 4 years
Church
And in between we let him go to school where he also excels. He is a busy kid, not fat and lazy.

So is there a way to add a Super Heavy weight class to state??
I know its not too late!
What can we do here?
We take their $15 every week and let them wrestle and we take the $ for their card.

Find a way!
Let them wrestle!

You run into this problem on both ends of the scale...pardon the pun.

Every year you are given the opportunity to petition the Kids Executive Director to add items to the agenda of the fall Executive Board meeting. The Executive Board reviews the request and makes a recommendation to the State Body (you and me).

Changes to age and weight classes are visited ever couple of years. If you feel passionately about this issue gather your data and request the change. Keep in mind that any changes made ultimately are voted on by the entire state body. This is not a case of "the Man" excluding anyone. I believe that last year the 60# class was eliminated from the U12 class and the HWT classes were adjusted in the U16 class to mirror those of KSHSAA.

One important point...any changes made will always have an upper end of the spectrum. There is no such thing as a Super HWT in any age classification. We have a maximum weight difference between classes in each age group to protect the athlete (8U-15#, 9&10-20#, 11&12-25#, 13&14-30#, 15&16-30#). KSHSAA also has a top end for HWT...it is 275#.

The answers to these issues are not simple. But change is possible if change is warranted. Many have lobbied for years for an U6 age classification...some want more options at the bottom end of some age classes...and as this thread points out maybe we need to look at the top end as well. However, we have a limited amount of time and space available for us to wrestle the State tournament.

Dad of son who has always carried the label "big for his age",
Mark Stanley

The KSHSAA weight classifications are determined by the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS). At the high school level the weight classifications are also subject to periodic review, and this year weight classifications are being reviewed. There is discussion of moving from fourteen (14) weight classifications to twelve (12).

The maximum weight classification for participation in a KSHSAA and NFHS sanctioned event is 285 lbs.

Like I said if other states seem to be able to deal with this issue then why can't KS. There appears to be an opposition to changing this and I am not sure why. MO has fewer weight classes at their State Tournament and they have big kids wrestling there. OK, simply went with the 275lb rule in all weight classes and have fewer weight classes at the state tournament than KS. So what are they doing right that we are not? Fewer classes less time and less expenses. Sounds positive to me.

I think someone is afraid that little Joey might have to wrestle someone 5 lbs more than him in the lower brackets. C'mon there is like anywhere between 10-12 weight classes between 50-80lbs in the lower age groups. That to me sounds a bit too much. You could cut out a few of those without losing one single kid. It is like saying that the 25lb split for the upper brackets is OK just because they are bigger. That doesn't also apply for lower brackets??? But little Joey might break an arm if Buster is 5 lbs heavier than him. That is a weak argument if you ask me. If the smaller wrestlers can't hack a little weight then they need to get stronger and quit starving themselves. Saftey is not the issue here in my opinion. I don't have the statistics but I am sure most of the kids who were hurt over the years at wrestling meets were not due to weight differences. Illegal holds, bad falls and previous injuries are prob biggest factors. Might make a nice college Thesis for someone.

I would love to argue this point at a state meeting, but I think there is already too many opinions against changing this to make a difference. If I thought otherwise I would do what I could. I haven't researched CO, NE, TX or AR but I think I will tonight just to see if we are really that backwards or not.

8U has 4 weight classes under 50 lbs are there that many more little 7-8 year olds than bigber ones I doubt it. I think almost every kid in the 40 lb bracket at state was actually a 6U kid so maybe we drop that weight and add one at the end so these kids that are 8U kids can wrestle at state.

I know that the team that my boys wrestle with will have 2 8u 125# kids that will get to state this year. But at the same time they have only had a couple of matches with someone else other than each other.

A lengthy study of all the weight classes was completed I believe two years ago. Ned or Richard can give you the exact date this was done. My proposal is to allow a one age group bump of entrants for the qualifiers which would allow those kids that fall outside their respective weight groups an opportunity to wrestle at state in the next higher age group.

So Mark or Richard,
Here are the real questions...
Is it really too late for these kids this year?
And if we are following the rules (max weight allowance and difference per age) week in and week out, how are clubs taking these peoples money and letting them wrestle?

BLT it is too late to do anything this year. The weight classes, age groups, entry fee, etc. for the 2009 State Tournament were all presented and voted on by the entire State Body at our Fall meeting.

To answer you second question, normal sanctioned tournaments have a different set of rules they operate under. They are given more latitude to combine and/or create weight classes within the age divisions. They may also allow a wrestler to “wrestle up”. I believe that these options have been excluded from the State Championship series because of a desire for standardization to create a level playing field when a State Title is the ultimate prize. I am not necessarily opposed to allowing a one age group bump in the State Chapionship Series as long as the bumps are regulated and only allowed on the upper end of the weight scale. I am not sure it is a good idea to allow a 10-64# kid to wrestle up with the 12-64# class just because it may be an easier road to a state medal (ie…if the 12-64# bracket isn’t full). I fear that a one age group bump could open us up for this scenario. Again…it is too late to get this accomplished this year and it would be a change that would need approved by the entire State Body.

On March 22, 2009 a group of clubs from my area are hosting the Kansas Hardluck TOC at Washburn University’s Lee Arena in Topeka, KS. The concept is to allow kids who have been eliminated from the State Championship Series at the Sub-district or District level one last chance to bring closure to their season. Kids from all four Districts are welcome. This tournament has no ties to the USAWA State Championship Series, so I have the same latitude as a normal sanctioned tournament. I would be willing to add a U8-140# class to my tourney if enough of you are interested in coming to wrestle and determine who is the top U8-over 125# wrestler in the State. That may be as close as you will get to a State Title this year. Tell your young wresters to keep working hard; wrestling is a great sport and there will be many opportunities for these young men in the future.

Mark, I would suggest that the one age group bump be available to all weights and not just the heavier weights. I believe we would see only the most advanced wrestlers bumping up at the lower weights in order to challenge their own abilities. I think it is too hard for anyone to tell prior to the subs who is going to be where weight-wise, and thus we would not see cherry picking for an easier bracket at a higher age group. This would not only allow our most advanced wrestlers a chance to really challenge themselves but would also allow other wrestlers of lesser abilities to advance at the weights vacated by the wrestlers moving up.

I disagree whole heartedly with bumping up an age division especially with the younger kids. I hate having to do this with my son or with anyone else on our team. We do it to get matches in not because we want to. It is either that or not wrestle at all.

The suggestion to allow bumping at state is not an answer. This does not solve the problem at state it only compounds it. It amounts to a buy off or concession for not dealing with the issue of expanding the weight classes and eliminating the redundancies of having too many lower end weight classes.

If you eliminated the 6U allowance to wrestle up at state alone, many of the lower brackets would empty. They have their own state x2 so why a third? The reality is they are a filler for big teams to pad out their team scores at state. Not too hard to figure that one out. Additionally, the state tourney is banking on filling out all these lower weight brackets with 6U wrestlers from big teams as they are the largest wrestling age group in the state. Most of these kids show up and get hammered but hey they paid to be there so all is good for USAWKS. They should just feel honored they got to go right?

If your 6U is that good and needs a challenge. Then save your money and take them to any one of the 5-6 National Kids Tournaments that are within a half a days drive from just about anywhere in KS and put them up against kids their own age. KC alone has 2 in the next month or two. Trust me you won't regret it. These are very tough meets and you get a chance to see what other people are doing. Let that be the season ender if you want it to be. Makes you wonder why we haven't hosted a National Kids Tourney here though doesn't it. The trip to Topeka while in KS is more expensive for us than Tulsa Nationals and USJOC simply because of the hotel situation. We stayed at the Hilton in Tulsa for $51.00 a night for instance this year. Far better than some of the pig pens we stayed at in Topeka and spent twice that.

MO has a pretty simple state weight bracket system set up in my opinion. They seem to be more on a modern or logical scale. Check it out at http://www.missouriusawrestling.org/results.htm look at 2008 results. Fewer brackets more weight allowances that solves the problem. Check it out.

Bumping up an age group should be a special instance and not a common occurance. I agree some older wrestlers can manage well enough to meet the challenge and some are very sucessful whomever they wrestle. State however, is not the time or the place to do it in my opinion. I know it is a big deal in OK and they encourage it some at the local meets but I think that is mainly because they don't have the depth of athletes that we do and have a hard time filling out the brackets. I don't believe that they allow that at the state meet on any level at least that is what I have been told.

If I were to push for changes then it would be to make all classes 275/285lb limit and follow a scale much like MO with reduced classes and expanded weights. Not allow 6U wrestlers to wrestle up or participation at 8U-16U State. Support and Fund the 6U State in Ottawa and the State Novice Championships in Derby. All of these changes allow for more kids to be involved and wrestle in their own age groups.

I am not sure that the MO example supports your argument???

Unless I am reading it wrong it looks to me like the 160lbs and 145lbs brackets only had one kid each…130lbs had 4. So essentially if you weigh over 130lbs you are a state champion.

Exactly the same problem we had in KS and why the heavyweights were reduced!

Bump

five pounds for a 50 pounder is quite a bit more to over come the a 125-150 pounder. You have to compare percentages, not just pounds. My 12/under 68 pounder looks like a dwarf compared to the 72 pound weight class. The 95 percentile for an 8 year old is 80 pounds. Does anyone have the statistics on how many kids we are talking about that are 8 years old & weigh over 140 pounds that wrestle? I am at the opposite end of the spectrum & am having a hard time getting my head around an 8 year old of this size.

I was prepared for that response when I posted that site as an example. The idea was to look at the way MO does the weight division splits to get an idea of how to break it down so you don't have so many lower brackets and could spread them out to accomodate as many athletes as possible. The entrants entered are an entirely different issue.

But did anyone notice that the 8U 40lb only had 3? So which way do you go with that. Point is none of the kids were turned away. So maybe they had a bad year/turnout. We apparently are not this year and are turning away dozens of potential state wrestlers. The same will be true next year and the year after. Are we so special we cannot crown a victor even if they are the only ones there. National Tournaments do it all the time. $$$ is a huge factor here.

I am pretty conservative most of the time. I think a kid should earn an award and not be given an award. But in this case they have earned the right to go as they have practiced went to other tournaments and done their time. It would just be the culmination of a seasons effort. Besides they hand out medals like candy at the district and sub-district meets anyway. So it wouldn't be like it isn't already being done. If you really want to help people out drop one of the qualifying meets this year and go from there. That would prob save everyone at least $50.00. Figure entry fees, gas, food, lodging in some cases.

If half the state decided that due to the economy (not totally unrealistic and prudent by the way) that they weren't going to shell out the money to go to state. Would you just call it off because the brackets were half empty. I don't think so. Is there a minimum for bracketing for state? So if there are only 2 people entered in the 8U 76 bracket do we just move them up a bracket or age group to make a bracket bigger. I would hope not.

The truth is that we are in a recession and people are out of work. The numbers will most likely be down this year any way you look at it. So doing surveys/polls are not likely to show anything except that numbers are down across the board. Past research is past research you have to live in the now not the last year or the year before that. The fact that big kids have been run off or turned away has undoubtably hurt their numbers over the last few years at least in this state.

Again look at the the way MO does their weight bracketing that is the important message here. Thanks, Troy

This thread got buried thanks to Win by Pin. Childish if you ask me.

I have noticed that you can weigh a max of
125lbs at 8U
170lbs at 10U
240lbs at 12U
265lbs at 14U
285lbs at 16U
Why is there a 70lb jump between 10U and 12U? Why do we not have a 205lb 12U and possibly a 15lb class at 8U. Just a little fuel for the fire.

8 & under:
40,43,46,49,52,55,58,61,64,67,70,73,76,80,88,95,110,125

9 & 10:
52,55,58,61,64,67,70,73,76,79,82,85,90,95,100,110,120,130,150,170

11 & 12:
64,68,72,76,80,84,88,92,96,100,105,110,115,120,130,140,150,165,
190, 215, 240

13 & 14:
75,80,85,90,95,100,105,110,115,120,125,130,135,140,145,150,155, 160, 165, 175, 205, 235, 265

15 & 16:
100,105,110,115,120,125,130,135,140,145,150,155,160,165,175,185, 215, 250, 285

That would be 150lb 8U not 15lb

You could have pulled up the same exact thread from the archives for any one of the last four or five years.

I think the MO example does show something…there just are not that many 8 year olds that weight over 125 pounds. Are there some? Sure, there are exceptions to every rule. And even with some of the suggestion on this post there would be exceptions. If we move it to 150…what about the kid that weighs 160 (and so on)???

My son is 8U 110, and even at that weight there are usually not more than a couple kids his size. So I can see why people would assume there isn't enough participants to warrant additional groups.

Win by Pin was trying to bury the Tobacco topic. I'm sure this one was buried on accident. Have you read that post? Nothing childish about burying that one.

Just for giggles I looked at the results for 8U 110lbs for this past weekend. I counted over 12 wrestlers partipating statewide not counting Maize which hasn't posted full results. There were prob another 5-10 that didn't wrestle at all. So they are out there just not all in the same place. Will all of them try to go to state, prob not. Doesn't mean they aren't there because they are and they actually have a choice to go or not.

Short of having a roll call from the clubs to get an accurate figure. I would esimate there are prob 10-15 8U wrestlers state wide that are either right at 125lbs or way over it. A 275lb+ 8U exception is going to very rare indeed.


Beeson:

Yes, I looked at that thread. I chew so it interested me at first, but I have self control when it comes to wrestling tournaments in that regard so it was a waste of bandwidth in my opinion. Doesn't mean that if I disagree with someone them I pull a stunt like that to make it go away. Ignore and read something else if you don't agree. But thanks for pointing it out though. I believe you are correct in your observation.

i too have a 8 and under hwt. i cant get alot of kids to wrestle against. it is a shame. my boy is at 140 now. he was 152 when we started the season. he has worked as hard as i have seen him ever work for something. he just wanted to go to state. the rules need to be modified. these kids today are getting bigger. our society today has more kids bigger than ever before. i put my son in the sports(football and wrestling) to help his weight. he will be in the 10 and under class next year. but what about the 7 and 8 year olds who are already pushing it to make state this year. i am seriously thinking about challenging the state board next fall. i need help from the rest of you parents so we can be heard.

i need contact information for the tournament in topeka on march 22 posted by mark stanley. or call me at (316)990-4515. my name is charles king/wichita aztecas

hey, if your kids cant go to state , let me know if their weight is the issue? or if they are novice babies? we can avoid the chaous by going to the tournament in topeka on march 22,2009. its on a sunday. that makes it easy on everybody in my group.let us know if you want to play............

washingtons, this is are fight. so lets keep pushing. remember,its not about us. there is another breed next year. they will be fighting AS WELL.

Patrick Lee, Tre Washington, and Robert King should have got to wrestle.

mark stanley has very good input here. he treated my kids with respect and understanding at his hardluck tourney. hossus and washingtons, my name is charles king. my son is robert king. my number is (316)990-4515. please call me soon so we can start our own research to take to our district meetings for the votes. this is crap and i cant believe this organization in in it for the kids. anybody else who is for or against me in this, you are welcome to make a phone call too.

magpie, so did your kid make it to state? if not youare in this mix too.