No Satelite Weigh Ins for Subs and District

Members:

Our board has made a concerted effort to make our sub-district and district tournaments uniform. I realize it is impossible to make ever last detail the same, but we must do what we can to make the major items consistent. Weigh-ins (and the requisite hair/skin/nail checks) are one of those major items. No satelite weigh-ins will be allowed for sub-district, district, or state tournaments.

Matt Treaster
Executive Director
Kansas Kids Wrestling

This is easy to say for those of us that only have a 10-20 minute drive to weigh in. As long as a certified official is present doing the checks and weigh ins, I see NO problem with it. If we were doing homesite weigh ins, where I am weighing in my own kids, I can see where there would be some eyebrows raised.

No Satelite Weigh Ins for Subs and District!

I don't see the reasons listed. I don't think anyone is asking to be able to weigh in their own kid without an official present.

And IF someone slips thru the cracks as far as skin or nail checks, the official can make them comply the day of the tourney as well........

Again, this doesn't affect me at all, I am 15 minutes from subdistrict weigh in. But district 4 especially, and teams like Independence, Caney, etc. in D2 have to drive over two hours on Friday night, then either get a hotel, or drive back. $3.69 gas. Come on, noone is gonna cheat.......and if cheating to win a kids' wrestling tourney is worth it to someone, they'll get theirs eventually........

There is satellite weigh ins for just about every tournament all year. I like that Subs and District do not have them, and I hope it stays this way for the future.

I am 45 minute away from our so I don't have any room to whine.

I was 2 and 2.5 hours away for both subs and districts a few years ago. I bit the bullet and got the room and weighed in on Friday night.

If anyone hasn't figured out yet that wrestling is the $12 drop your kid off for practice once a week and hit a hour game on the weekend sport, well you missed the boat.

There isn't anyting cheap about wrestling and I realize that some areas have it easier and harder than others, but that is what we have chosen.

I am ok with gutting it out for two weeks and weighing in at location, and I have had those 2 hours to subs/districts before. I did it then because satelite weigh ins weren't even a option.

It also doesn't sneak up on anyone, subs and district have been scheduled for sometime get ready for it.

No satelite weigh ins for subs on.

Great way to State it Tracy.

Best of luck to all in the "series".

So noone worries about the host site weighing in the team like at 8:00am?? The refs don't look at the individual wrestlers that weigh in. They can cheat just as easy. Quit gripping about satellites, they are probably ran more honest than the host WI's. A few years ago I remember the economy was a hell of alot better than it is now, and gas was $3.75. Who ever said it was cheap, that why we support local tourny's all year but still have to drive 30 miles. If satellites were an option you would have been more than happy to save hotel fees. (I assume) Planning for Subs starts in Nov. but planning on the economy?? come on if anyone cheats it catches up to them sooner than later. We have been guttin it out for many years but the last 2 it has sure hurt. Get a CERT. REF or 2 have 1 watch scale and 1 do nail check. Pay them $50.00 or do we not trust them either.
Danny Burnett
620-332-7799

I still think some thing needs to stay in the control of the hosting site.

I don't think I would have stayed at home for the satelite weigh in, I personally would rather stay the night anyways and get the 1-2 hours of rest.

I don't understand why the host official is better than the satellite official that is assigned by the District or State if they feal they need their hands in it? It's a mute subject to me personnaly, I have to be there to coach in the am. But when Mr. Mike Juby stands up at the State Body meeting and tells us how we should have split session tourny's because it's more economical on the parents, it kinda seams like people are talking out of two sides of there .... sorry mouth. If your kid is in the pm seesion it really sucks to drive 2 1/2 hours (that is my drive)to weigh in then either drive home at 3.75/ga or spend the night at $50-100.00. Then wake up stay in a hotel until 11 then go wrestle. We as Kansas wrestlers have more sense than what we are showing. Like I said the cheaters will be caught sooner than later

Mr. Treaster-

You and the executive council could use a little common sense on this matter. Explain how if a certified official is present at a remote weigh in how consistency would be compromised? With this line of thinking why not have everyone from each district drive to the same location for weigh ins each week for the qualifiers? Doesn't make sense does it?

Why is it called common sense when it is so uncommom????

You can always weigh in Saturday morning.

Complainers, go out to track wrestling and check out the "Elite Athletes" page and see if there is one kid from Kansas on there. I know, "what the heck does that matter"? I bet you NEVER hear that from any parents in say, Oklahoma, Iowa, Nebraska... Hotel rates have dropped to an all time low since the economy shot craps, the savings in that alone should cover your fuel surcharge/hike..

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is, if you want your kid to be a great wrestler, football player, doctor, lawyer, etc., then you will go above and beyond for them. I as a father love, looking at my son to the light of the dash talking about what we're going to to that day heading for weigh-in @ 5:00 in the morning, it's kind of a bonding thing. It's how I and most were raised to do it and it's not that big of a deal. If I know we're going to be wrestling a huge national tourney (states not too far away:) ) I lay off the beer, chew, junk food, new designer jeans (the ones with the stitched diamonds on the butt pockets:) ) for a few weeks. Tracy you hit the nail on the head, and twister is right: You can always weigh in Saturday morning...

My opinion is you know when and where you are wrestling at every tournament. We choose where we go to wrestle every week. We also know the ones we cant pick and choose very early in the season. We are spoiled compared to the last generation so let's just go wrestle!!

Toby Eaton
Jr. Panthers Wrestling Club
620-899-1289

Yep and that mom and/or dad sit all morning watching other people wrestle that they don't know. Cause their son/daughter wrestles in the pm. Remember Split session we do this for the wrestling families so they don't have to spend 8-12 hours out of town at a wrestling tourny! We were worried about our kid wrestler numbers being down so we as a State try to use Split sessions, to save money and keep people interested in this sport, it's already expensive enough. Right? WHY DOESN'T ANYBODY GET THIS?? What did someone call Beeson (Chucklehead) I bet he even understands this!!I still haven't seen a good reason why the subs/district host head official (who i have never seen watch a scale at any qualifying tourny or State) is more qualified or trusted than any other Certified official/s that was chose by the district director/s to do skin/hair/nail check and watch the digital scale???? At any tourny you have 2 people at the scale (they are usually buddies) if one of their buddies son weighs in 100.6 they can just write it down as 100.0 and tell the other one his dad and I are long time friends. What is the difference? This can happen at any qualifing tourny even STATE!! Fight to help the wrestling families instead of break them. This should be a No brainer. Yes to satellites for subs/districts maybe in a few years when unemployment is below 4% and gas prices are back to $1.50 we can go back to the old times

Its not like this is the last time these kids are going to be able to wrestle. Its not D1 National Championship and I haven't seen any hotel prices drop. Hopefully your talking about Topeka hotels dropping there prices?? I would hate to guess the amount of kids left out of being a superstar because of the amount of money their parents make. It sure would suck for the Dad that gets up early Sat morning and is having bonding time with his son going to weigh in and boom blown out tire. They finally get there but 30 mins late. Tell me why the certified host ref is so much more qualified than none host certified refs.

I would go as far to say that the PM wrestlers should get their own weigh in, but that is about it.


I think it is a trust issue, then it get to a logistic issue also. How many can there be, can anyone have them, will tournament refs be present, or "local" refs that aren't voted to ref the tournament, who pays the refs, do they all close the scale at the exact same time and there are more.

I think it just opens the state up for a risk of something not being the same at every location leading to some one feeling slighted.

Even Chuckleheads have opinons.

DannyB you must be new to the kids series because in the 16 years that ive been involved i have never seen any buddies at a scale for qualifying tournaments in dist 4. I have never drove longer than 3.5 hours to any sub or dist tournament. I have one of the worst mileage vehichels there is to haul my family to tournaments, 8 miles per gal. If going to wrestle at a sub or district tournament is going to break your billfold im sure if you ask your club they would be more than happy to help get your kid to the tounament, Hays wrestling club does it every year. Post your phone number and i will call you to see if your close to us and maybe i could take your kid with me.

Butch Drylie
785-650-4404

DannyB i do have a spare tire so no need to worry there

Thanks
Butch Drylie
785-650-4404

Teamroper thank you now someone has some rational thinking. I understand everyone is worried about cheaters, but it can be done just as easily at the host sight. If you allow the pm than you have to let the am. But I could agree with you on that, that saves money. My theory has been if I have to drive more than 1 hr we staying the night, because of the unknown. The tire happened to me, my son was 8 we were headed to Derby they could of turned us away but they didn't. It wasn't a qualifing tourny. Find 1 maybe 2 satellite places that teams only have to travel 30 miles. That may be hard in Dist.4. Have the District Director choose the Certified ref's, then either the District or team/s attending pay the Certified ref's. The scales run at the same time as the host scales. I still don't understand the mistrust in the officials, local or not. You have been to the State tourny. the guys doing weigh ins are WHO?? and from were?? with how many kids from there team?? This is my point we as Kansas Wrestling want to be better with more enrollment and Nationally recognized individuals, we have went to Split Sessions to accomadate parents/grandparents/coaches/& so on but when it comes to saving individuals hotel fees and gas money for 2 weeks more of satellite weigh ins then we balk. I just don't understand. Park City & Hays allows satellite supposed to be the 2 biggest tourny's of the year, heck yo can pretty much figure out your state bracket from those two. Its KIDS wrestling, lets try to keep more kids/parents in it. We as a team/coaches/secetary have taken a kid (1st year) to and from every practice and most tourny's cause mom can't afford it, yet she said no to subs because she doesn't want to burden us anymore this year--she still has PRIDE just can't afford it. He would not of place at subs but he would have had a Great experience. Probably be his last, hopefully not he made great strides. This is the logistics that people are missing, most of these stories aren't ever heard cause they live in the area of subs/dist/state. You guys that are not in favor of satellite at qualifing tourny's aren't helping the kids wrestling program at all. To me its kinda like running/moving brackets when you find out that stud is in your bracket. Quit thinking of your own offspring and think about the possibilities Kansas has to offer. Teamroper this was not meant personnally towards you except my direct replies toward your replies. Thank you again for some critical thinking. What the Heck is a Chucklehead??
Danny Burnett
620-332-7799

Butch thanks for loaning me your spare tire next time, hopefully my spare tire will make it to the Hays area to get it as it did to Derby. Just be sure to give yourself extra time to get it swithced it you have a flat on the way to subs. Thanks again
Danny Burnett
620-332-7799

Yes Butch I am new only 9 years in this wonderfull sport as a parent and grew up in it. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MYSELF, its the 10-20% that it does effect. We are losing kids due to parents not having JOBS. Yet we go to State Body meeting and try to figure out how to get more kids to stay in or get into the sport for future "Kansas". And I still drive my 04 Diesel to tourny's 3.95/ga this weekend but thank GOD I don't have to go 3 1/2 hours to subs/dist. We as a team scholarship kids as well. Everyone is missing the point. In my area you could save 6 teams with just say 20 kids from having to have a hotel cause they wrestle in the afternoon. 120xlets say $50 for a roach motel=$6,000.00 that just 1 sub district. They could spend that money on home mortgage/rent/elec/gas/school/college/retirement/or save it in case their kid makes it to the STATE tourny. I heard the hotels are cheaper there this year. I know its just $50.00 but some people live on that for two weeks. I'm not looking for analysis on my secarnios but Why Split session saves money but only 8 Cert host officials can be trusted to weigh kids in,

I am one of those parents that Danny B is talking about helping. Yes it is expensive and we save all year long to be able to do this because we have two kids wrestling. However, sometimes there are things out of our control that means some of the money goes out the window. We could not afford to go to some of the bigger tourneys or further more competitive tourneys this year. We will see if it effects our sons chances at subs/districts. Why can't we put in a petition or have an official club president vote on this issue?

While I am not sure how every person on the Executive Board feels about this issue, I don’t think the board is adamantly opposed to the satellite weigh in option in the future. However, I do know it was discussed at last Fall's meeting. The consensus this year was to let the “local” tournaments offer the option and we could see where the holes in the concept develop. The satellite weigh in concept which has morphed into “home site” weigh in has some definite benefits. But those of us that have been in tourney operations and, to a larger extent, club directors in general have noticed some obvious holes that need to be addressed in this option going forward. These holes would be totally unacceptable in a qualifying tournament which leads up to the State tournament. Before we consider rolling this concept out the Kids Executive Board and the State Tournament Committee need time to put together a protocol that is leak proof. I then feel that this proposal should be voted on by the body at large at our Fall 2012 meeting. I support Matt’s decision. This isn’t something we need to “experiment” with this year at one of our qualifying tournaments.

I do think it is important that for the qualifying series of tournaments we keep the tourney operations consistent between the four districts.

Good point Mark, in doing satelite weigh in for the Hutch tournament it isn't as smooth as people think it is for the hosting tournament.

I can't speak for my club director, however are we talking an extra thirty minutes on a Friday night to get more kids involved or what do you consider not going smoothly? By the way, our club hosts several satellite weigh ins throughout the season. I give a big thanks to the director because without those, we would be even more limited in the number of tourneys our kids could attend.

With the exception of District 4 I would see no need to have more than one satelite site for the other districts.

Some of it was self inflicted, TW wasn't used so trying to combine 14 satelite weigh in site to one list is a little tough.

The other thing that happen is location missed writing a few kids down. Not a big deal unless it is a qualifying tournament.

Smithy and whoever else wants to listen to my rant,

Here are the issues that I had. For my tournament I think I had the protocol set pretty well for what was required of the “home sites”. I took the time to send each club an xls spreadsheet with the format that I wanted the weigh in information reported (each of their kids were listed by age/weight). I explained in detail that I wanted the skin/nails checked and for the box to be checked on the weigh in sheet accordingly. I listed the times that I would allow. Numerous clubs didn’t read my protocol or ignored it. I had weights left for me on voicemail, sent via text message, typed into the body of the email….etc. Many of those that didn’t follow the protocol also left some of their kids off the list of kids that they reported weights for….and they didn’t notice the issue until the tournament was bracketed with their wrestlers deleted. We elected to go back in and add the kids…this cost me about 30 minutes and printing of another set of brackets before we could start the tourney.

I have been to other tournaments this year when I heard a kid say….”yeah we weighed in at Thursday night after practice". I witnessed a wrester show up for Saturday morning weigh in where a weight had been reported for him on Friday night….the problem was this kid had no recollection of stepping on a scale on Friday.

As I have stated previously, there is plenty of merit to the remote site weigh in for us to continue to pursue it….but from what I have witnessed this year we are not ready to roll it out for the qualifying series where a controlled protocol is not just a good idea; it’s the only idea that works. In a sport that divides kids by a predetermined weight allowance I would think that the weigh in verification process is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

Here's an idea (have 2 satellite weigh-ins for district 4, each weigh-in is composed of a 4 person liaison team from THE OPPOSITE SIDE (south/north) If they're competing against one another, I bet there wouldn't be any "cheating" They can also have a few of their own staff on hand just to make sure everyone is honest. Also, saves thousands on fuel/lodging, and preserves fossil fuels. Danny, I totally see where you are coming from and I'm sure everyone else does as well. The economy sucks and Mr. Obama hasn't saved us yet... That's a different topic...

I have scanned through our By-Laws and Rules and I Don't see were it states that Qualifing tourny's CANNOT have a satellite. But that sanctioned tourny's the tourny director controls weigh ins. I might have missed the rule.

makes no sense

I agree that I think our directors are being heavy handed here, and implying that it says we can't do satellite weigh ins. I've had someone else tell me that it does not specifically state that you can't do satellite weigh ins..........

Again, my disclaimer, I am 15 minutes from weigh ins, so this does NOT affect me...........1 or 2 satellite weighins per district, on top of the host site, won't hurt anything.

The way we did weighins at Wichita classic, thru trackwrestling, was awesome. One person typing in the kids' last name, verifying his age and weight, while the other gets him on the scale. Both people acknowledge the weight, and it gets typed directly into Trackwrestling. While one guy is typing the weight in, the other is writing on the kids' arm. All of this occurred after the Head official has done a skin check on each kid. They weren't allowed near the scales until the skin check is completed.

Doug that sure doesn't sound so hard or any way of cheating can happen. As long as the host tourny gives a username and password so you can log in to Track it is easy, it when you receive spreadsheets when it gets hard. Our satellite went the same way for Park City that is exactly how we did ours, went smooth, and everyone made their weight that tehy entered the tourny, Even the ones that had to run for two hours!! This doesn't have to be hard.

If I am reading the by-laws correctly, please let me know if I am not. It is up to the Tournament Director to decide how weigh-ins will be conducted. I would think that this would be his decision not the boards. Yes, I know that there is a State Tournament Director, and that he is over all of the Subs, Districts, and State. I even know who it is. Shouldn't it be his decision on the weigh-in procedures?

I'm not sure but we may have ceded all that authority to the board when we let them set our sub and district tournament fees. Sadly, we are all too willing to give up our club rights to the board.

So my wrestler that is entered at subs and districts and has no one else in his bracket at either place still has to drive 2 hours to make weight??

I would suggest voting on this at the State Body meeting.

Me to but for this year can't the executive board have a teleconference, and give us their opinion? Then have each district have a email vote to each club director? I believe we can correspond via email since that was added at the State Body meeting last year. Its probably to much work though since 80-90% of the State body probably lives within 60 miles of their subs/dist. So I guess this really falls on deaf ears since over 75% of the wrestling population this topic doesn't effect. Good luck to all competitors at subs/dist and hopefully State.

There should be some guidance around how it would be handled, I am not sure rushing it this year is the answer.

I would also volunteer to be on that committee or team that would help decide how to handle this satlite weighs ins, if approved by the body.

The trackwrestling live entering of weights gets rid of lost papers, and I would think would eliminate problems. The spreadsheet way is not the way to do it. Wherever we have the satellite weighins, would have to have an internet connection, so the weights can be entered on the spot.

I say no to satellite weigh-ins. Danny B. is obviously passionate (and persistent) about the subject and makes some very valid arguments, but at some point you just have to have consistency and certainty.

If you have one location, you have one set of scales, you have one set of eyes for skin decisions, and it is the same for everyone. Every kid should have the exact same situation to make weight and pass skin check. A kid could be (.1) over and just not able to get rid of any more. If he is at a satellite site that weighs (.1) light, he makes it. If he is at the sub site, he does not.

If the reasoning is adopted, why not have satellite weigh-ins with certified officials for State? Many of us could then drive up the morning of State and save 1/2 to a full day of work and maybe a hotel. All the arguments are the same, yet surely we would not consider this for State.

I call the question and let's have someone fire up another topic. This horse is stone cold dead.

Right now you do not have 1 set of eyes for skin decisions. For Subs there are 8 different locations and therefore the possibility of 8 differeing set of eyes. For districts it is 4.

I do not see the problem in those districts where it makes sense to have a couple of satelite locations for weighins to allow this. You could have certified officials also at these and they would presumably have the same criteria as the certified officials at all of the other locations.

I am willing to bet that it will pass for next year....OVERWHELMINGLY!!!!

Just wrestle.

I am going to drive friday night to weigh my son and a couple of his friends. So we will drive 146 miles round trip on friday night and then again on saturday. And hopefully the next friday and saturday we will drive 174 miles roundtrip each day.

If it is a problem, carpool. We do it a lot in our club and it works. Just take turns. I would rather do this and have consistency than not know what everyone else is doing.

I know it is expensive, but what isn't.

Just my thoughts.

And if you are going to do Satellite weigh ins, you might as well do them at all the clubs. Why would one get the advantage of not having to drive, when another has to. No mater how far or how close it is.

Per sub-district you do. The context of the question is whether to have just one sub-district weigh-in site or multiple sub-district sites. I think the goal should be to make sure each situation, per sub-district, is the same. So everyone that must come out of a sub has the same circumstances.

You actually make my point. We already have the potential across the state for variances at the respective subs and districts, we should not introduce more.

It isn't expensive if you weigh right before the tournament starts. No one is making anyone weigh on Friday and come back on Saturday. For the qualifier events there needs to be consistency. All year clubs have been bending the satellite rules by weighing at practice on Thursdays instead of during the prescribed times. It should be an honorable sport but every year, at the HS level, I see kids make weight like a champ all season but when it comes to Regionals and State they wilt... Either the long season got to them or their scale was quite accurate...:-)

Shame on them. Every Tournament we have been involved in we have weighed in at the prescribed time. Shame on the clubs that aren't...and now I see why everyone is worried about it. 1 Bad Apple spoils the Bunch. If you know this for a fact Will, let us know so that club will not even be considered to host a weigh in.

yes a first time poster but I created an account cause reading this makes me wonder.....does anybody else see kids having to move up a wiegt class when they HAVE to make weight on sight? I seen several in our subs and all over when I got to looking. Funny how that works. I say leave it as it is, wrestling is expensive if people don't like it, try exposing your kids to basketball or something a little cheaper.

many of the poster on this topic are deeply involved with wrestling in this state, yet don't really agree on the subject.

satellite weigh in or no satellite weigh in the state HAS to stand by the decision. we will NEVER find a solution to please everyone. we MUST chose a solution that pleases the majority.

there HAS to be strict guidelines in place, and we CANNOT knitpick every situation where someone is inconvenienced. it's just simply NOT possible to please every single wrestling family in the state.

devil's advocate here, but maybe those clubs that weigh in on thursday are doing it right. the kids are making weight in one less day. maybe the clubs who are waiting until friday are pulling too much weight.

totally agree that regulations need to be followed, but sometimes question the thought process of 1-2lbs being a huge deal. many people will argue that rules are rules, but many more will throw that excuse after seeing a bracket, or after a loss.

maybe the only way to be fair is to have state appointed skin check officials, and weigh in supervisors, at every tournament. i'd bet even then someone, somewhere, somehow would feel slighted and make that unfair too.

And every district should be allowed to do just that by a simple vote of it's member clubs.

back when.... there was not a choice u weighed in that morning no other option except for qualifying tourn nobody complained yea it sucked so what we teaching the kids now find the easy way? i used to get up way early feed the animals and then we could leave when we got home it was chores all over again life isnt easy but we seem to try to make it that way for our kids what will they do in the real world when it aint

it cost my parents a lot back then but like someone else said cut the beer and other things if thats what your kids want and go my dad saved all year just to go wrestle granted it wasnt as exspensive but he didnt make as much and he had a farm and five other kids to worry about but he made it and now hes there to watch his grandkids

Noname, we're on the same page! 100%

what i was trying to say is it isnt easy so we all have to suck it up and do the best we can getting on here and complaining wont help anything weigh in here or there u still have to go and compete with the best to be the best weigh in thurs or sat who cares JUST WRESTLE

I don't think anyone is against what you say, but I bet we'd have had more kids out for wrestling, and we would have been forced to be better wrestlers, had we come up with some of today's "innovations", like split session tourneys, satellite weigh ins, etc............

We're trying to get more kids out for the sport, so the entire sport is better. I don't want my kid winning because he outlasted everyone else...........

"innovations" is correct, remote weigh ins was/is a great concept, put a few extra regulations in place, and let's do it for ALL tourneys. You will never be rid of all the conspiracy theorists. Let's do what is right for the kids. NONAME kids can still learn those tough life lessons, my kid still does his chores whether we weigh in on Friday or Saturday. His homework is done right after school whether we have training or not. His room is picked up before he plays outside. Daily responsibilities will be taken care of as long as the family values are in place, tough life lessons will be learned if family values are in place.

I really feel sorry for you, I do. Try driving close to three hours one way for subs. You would spend so much time in the car, your kid wouldn't be rested enough to put out extra effort. When it comes to being this spread out, I agree with satellite's.

I have sat here and read this thread for some time now. And some people are saying how satilite weigh in will get more people out for wrestling, and how spilt format will get more people out for wrestling, and this and that will get more people out for wrestling. And that we need to come with "today's innovations". I look back when I wrestled kids club in the 80's and 90's from SW Kansas where there were few tournaments close. We would get up on a Saturday morning anywhere between 3:00 AM and 5:00 AM to take off for a tournament. (there were no satalites then) We would get there weigh in, and warm up for the tournament, and I never remember my bracket being a round robin, I always had at least 8-10 wrestlers in my bracket, generally 16 man bracket or more. So in my oppinion all these "innovations" will not get kids out for wrestling. It is convincing kids to get out of in front of the TV or X-Box and wrestle is the only way we are going to get our numbers up. JMO

Lance Geyer

But there were not 5 or 6 tourneys, or more, every weekend back then. Yes, we all were there, early getting up to get to weigh ins, sitting all day til 10 pm as there were no split sessions. The hardcore wrestling families will continue to wrestle no matter what, but if we make little changes that do not HURT anyone, why not make it easier on the kids and their families that are on the verge of saying Screw It!! It is too expensive, too time consuming, etc.

I am missing something for my thought process here.
1. How exactly do satellite weigh ins save me any money?
A couple of the posts indicated that these cost the family twice the fuel. ?????
2. Is the major support of satellite weigh in approval from those who are cutting weight and want an opportunity for the kids to not have to wait another day or morning or however long until the tournament weigh in?
Are we even close to weight the following day?????
3. Time saver for morning weigh ins?
4. Is there a process to challenge a kid's weight the day of a tournament?

What, in reality, are the benefits here?
Terry

I agree that there were not as many tournaments, but the argument here is that there are not as many wrestlers out for wrestling as there used to be, becuase of the expense and time. I disagree with this being the reason for the lack of wrestlers. My thinking is that parents and kids want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Even if everyone does "todays innovations" parents still need to make their kids get off of their butts and be physically active and the parents need to be involved as well. I know I am preaching to the choir here, as most everyone on this forum is more than likely active with wrestling, But I am not sure if Satalites and Split sessions are the answer.

I can put that in perspective from my point of view. If there were satellite weigh ins, I would be spending at least $45.00 less. If I spent $10-15 to get to/from satellite site versus $60-70 for even a cheap hotel. Second, it is harder for some kids to make weight in the evening(due to eating that day) than it is making weight in the morning. So that is not what people are running from. These are simply cost/time effective ways to save and help more economically challenged families be involved.

As to #3, don't know. #4-I sure wish there was a way to put that into effect and believe that would have to be an option if satellite's were allowed within some parameters of course.

I also didn't include the amount of money that would be saved on food not having to eat out and feed two growing boys for dinner and breakfast that could be eaten at home.

can't speak for everyone, but here is why i speak about the "innovations" as a good thing for the sport to grow.

I coach other sports (baseball and football) all three sports we travel, all three sports we spend time and money. We have had kids join the wrestling team, then give it up after about a year. Some of the reasons they brought up were time and money. We tell parents up front, what it takes, sacrifices etc. they still have found that they spend less in baseball and football combined than in wrestling.

face it we are not in the "space in time" when we grew up. everything is different.

"Unless you continually work, evolve, and innovate, you will learn a quick and painful lesson, from someone who has" Cael Sanderson

this quotes fits all areas of our daily lives, work, school, sports, family. nothing will ever be the way it used to be, nothing, we have to accept that, and continue to work to be better.

I agree we need to continue to be innovative with our sports, but as far as satalites for qualifying tournaments I dont agree with this. And I am very suprised that you guys can play traveling baseball and football cheaper than you can wrestle. Many of our families say even though wrestling is an expensive sport, it is cheaper than traveling baseball, and football. As far as innovations for wrestling I am sure they will come, but it takes time, as people dont like change, look how long it has taken Trackwrestling to take off. JMO

I hope you are correct that these innovations will bring more to the sport, but as I commented earlier, I feel there are many other factors that need to be addressed as well, to ensure wrestling grows in numbers. (again JMO)

For those people gripping about driving....I would be more than happy to drive hours to weigh in for subs or districts if it meant by kid making it to state. It's a small price to pay for the memories and fun we have. In district 2 we have so many great kids left at home for state because our subs and districts are so stacked. Let's just rotate the 8 subdistricts every year. We all will have to drive and get the best 16 kids to state

One thing no one has mentioned is, getting a certified official (are we meaning KSHSAA or just kids?) to be at the weigh in all evening. They are going to have to be paid, or good luck getting someone to just volunteer to drive to the satellites.

No matter what we are doing someone is going to pay for the use of satellites. I know it's not all about money but as everyone already knows finding enough officials is hard enough.

What happens when a kid is turned away for having long hair or nails etc, who reports this and makes sure the kid doesn't compete?

Just a few other thoughts from the other side of the coin so to speak.

The reason I like satilite weigh ins is that I do not have to get up so early in the morn! When we have to go up to KC in the early season we just suck it up and get up very, very early! As far as baseball goes, I have a nephew in 7th grade and the are going to OKC 4 weekends in a row with a 2 night hotel room stay each time. So no matter what you do it costs something!

Almost every club is associated with a community that has a Jr. High Program, or High school program and if not they are not far from them. Jr high and high school coaches do the weigh ins for the regular season, why couldn't they do this for subs and districts.

There is little doubt, alot of today's kids are p*ssified, and it is much harder as a coach to keep kids out. The easy way out is the route that most parents and kids will take if given the option. If you give a kid a choice of going to get his butt kicked on Saturday, or playing video games, he'll take the video games. If you give the parent the option of letting the kid play video games, since they have to drive a long ways to weigh in, or buy a hotel room, or whatever, versus giving them the option of a nice close satellite weigh in, and telling their kid to nut up and wrestle, it is easier on that parent to be harder on their kid.........Long winded, but you get the point.

I remember a guy that had kids on our club, who are now graduated. He said when they first started wrestling, he told them they had two options, wrestle or not wrestle. They said not wrestle, and he said he changed his mind, that isn't an option, you only have one option.........

If everyone wants satellite weigh ins it can be accomodated NEXT year. Simply write up a proposal and email (as well as mail) it to Matt Treaster. You just need to cover all of the details on how it will be done. The schedule has to be consistent, certified official, certified scale, etc. It was NOT defined this year and if you want a state tournament series to be credible you have to have standardization and consistency. That is the only fair way to operate a series. If your proposal is credible and supported by 2/3 of the state body then next year we will have satellite weigh ins for state. We cannot just change the rules at the last minute this year. Sorry.

I have three boys and we've been wrestling for 12 years now. I say no satellite weigh-ins for qualifiers. We've used them. Mainly to get a good breakfast at home. We've went to split format tournaments and those don't save any money.(still had to get a hotel room because we live out west) Just a big hassle for my boys. The waiting is worse than a regular tournament. Split format tournaments are probably good for the Wichita, Topeka, Kansas City area families. If you want to save money pack a cooler. Stay away from the t-shirts and other vendors at tournaments. Change spending habits somewhat. Don't eat out! We don't eat out unless we have to(I know we're boring)But, we do what we have to do. All my boys are involved in wrestling, baseball, football and now tennis.Ages soph. 7th and 4th grade.

Ok I have set here and read every post and still don't understand why if District 2 south in Garden Plains is going to be a split tournament then why there is not an afternoon weigh in session. I will be traveling almost 4 hours to get there and I have two kids that will be wrestling in the afternoon session. Why is it fair to make my kids or any other kid who wrestles in the afternoon come up on Friday night(I have to take off work early), stay the night (which cost money), and just wait around till 1:00 pm for them to wrestle????? If my kids wrestled in the moring it would be one thing to stay the night or weigh in that morning, but we don't wrestle till that afternoon.

I have 3 kids and I am very tough on my kids and everybody that knows me will tell you the same thing. My kids are not allowed to quit and they do travel to wrestle, but if we don't wrestle till 1:00pm at Garden plains then why is there no afternoon weigh in session? That is what all the fuss is about. We have to take off work, stay the night, and just wait till 1:00 to wreslte. Thats crap!!!!!!!

T. Will why are you hard on your kids? Is it that you want them to reach their potential... Are living your dreams through them.. Or love the sport of wrestling and want your children to learn the life lessons wrestling brings? I think we all need to examine our intentions and our competitive spirit. Food for thought! These are the rules right now and let's live by them.

Cut to the chase people, if it wasn't for the internet none of you would be able to air their dirty laundry for the world to see. There is no point in complaining. The rules are the rules set by the people in charge. If it was football you wouldn't be able to start the game early, basketball doesn't change cause some kid didn't get to stay home and play. Why is wrestling so different? Some kids, and their parents, have the drive to sacrifice and some don't that's the bottom line!!! Home weigh-ins don't save money in the end (maybe a hotel which we as parents probably spend on foolish things anyway)suck it up it's for your kids.

Our board has made a concerted effort to make our sub-district and district tournaments uniform. I realize it is impossible to make ever last detail the same, but we must do what we can to make the major items consistent. Weigh-ins (and the requisite hair/skin/nail checks) are one of those major items. No satelite weigh-ins will be allowed for sub-district, district, or state tournaments.

This is how this post started. If i am understanding all this, it is that D2 south is going to have a split format for there sub district? How is this approved by the board when the director states uniform tournaments? 7 sub tournaments alike and one totaly different how is that uniform?

Butch Drylie
785-650-4404

Two years ago I had a young man who was a talented basketball player join my wresrling team. He was very successful and loved to wrestle. At the end of the season I asked his parents what there plans for next year were and they said although they loved watching there kid wrestle they hated waiting around all day to wrestle just a few matches. The long days and money spent just outwayed the benifits for this particular family. I believe if there had been more split session tournaments and satellite weigh ins they would have kept there son wrestling. I grew up traveling every weekend to tournaments just like many of you did and I understand the way things used to be. If were going to keep moving forward were going to have to keep coming up with new ideas such as Satellite weight ins and split sessions to stay ahead of the other sports.

Not a Board Decision to make.

We've been having split session subs and district tourneys for years..........

I think what he is complaining about is the fact there is no Saturday weigh-in for those wrestling in the afternoon. Thus causing them to make two trips to the tournament site.

I agree with Butch everyone on here is wanting the qualifying tournaments to be uniform and consistant, but yet some are doing split format, and some are not. If we are going to be uniform why dont we all do it the same way. As far as Split format saving money, I can say I dont see this. The kids still have to be there Friday night, or Saturday morning to weigh in. If they would allow kids to weigh in later on Saturday, this would not be fare as they would have longer to make weight than some of the other districts. My oppinion is to run Subs, Districts, and state the same way tournaments have always ran, otherwise someone is going to scream it is not fare. JMO

it's not just your opinion, it's the ONLY way! we all want it to be FAIR.

I don't know who suggested this but the ONLY reason for splits has been the convenience of parents and wrestlers. To me, that is the only reason that is needed.

If weigh-ins are kept the same at all subs and districts. How is it unfair to the wrestlers if the tournament format is different? I.E.: split or not split. It makes zero difference unless you are running from someone and want to make sure you end up in a more favorable spot on a bracket.

This is ridicules adults are complaining about something so trivial, LET'S WRESTLE!

Someone still needs to explain to me what advantage one district has over another by offering satelite weigh-ins.

it's not the district that has the unfair advantage, it's the one wrestler who was 2lbs over in the morning, who pulls the weight, step on the scale at home, and has an extra hour of rest time. that's where it's unfair, or maybe it's the kid who gets an extra .05lbs because there wasn't a district representative from all 4 districts + a ks paid official checking his weight.

you will never stop the conspiracy theorists, but to be as fair as possible, things should be consistent. different sub district and district tournaments have been split format, in the past, each individual tournament has a choice, fair enough. when we switch to remote weigh ins, things will need to be more consistent, but we will never make every single person happy. someone will be inconvenience, fair or not, the club directors will need to back the majority decision.

Life is not FAIR. A FAIR is a carnival.

Soooooooooo do we let each district, run as they please????? wouldn't that make it a CIRCUS?!?!

You will never get me to be concerned about the kid who is pulling weight. If the parents aren't concerned then why should I be?

Who said anything about there not being a paid official or a district representative present?

here's one

here's two

i gave you only two examples, because i don't have time to read the whole topic to you. but seriously, if you couldn't get the sarcasm, in my post you sir are way too serious.

my point has been from the get go, that you will never make everyone happy, somebody will twist the rules to fit their complaint. someone will dream up a way that it's unfair to them, their team, their district, etc.

some of the arguments are a stretch, but every year someone comes on and backs it. in order to do it club directors, coaches, whether they agree or not need to support the boards/ states majority decision.

It is fair, parents are able to save money! With a true satellite weigh in, not a weigh in that a team weighs in their own team like you guys are talking about. A true satellite, would need 2 KS HS certified paid officials, 1 doing skin check, 1 watch scale weights. It would be entered directly into track wrestling and would start and end at the same time as the host tourny. Not sure were you people are screaming "UNFAIR". It would be done with several teams at one/two locations per subs/distr. Saving several teams at the very least, lodging and meals. It is exactly the same as weighing in at the tourny except satellites have a savings. Isn't that why we have done it all year?? If it matters now why do we have tourny's that don't matter from Dec-Mar.? Also people have moved weights for subs for years, (without satellites) so don't start blaming satellites for that.And if you are able to save or just afford a long drive to qualifing don't assume everyone can, its not always about you!

Butch I don't beleive that this sport is about the board. They have made efforts to make this sport more afffordable for the families as well ex. split sessions. Its about the families that have to spend the money to take their kids to the tourny's. And not all families have much money these days. Noone knows what other people have or what some people have to give up to get their kids to these tournys. Someone even gave up beer,chew and bling bling on his rear pockets of his pants. Some people don't have those items to start with. It doesn't matter what district started this what matters is that they are families in ALL 4 Districts that have this problem. It started out as a simple request and ended up with people saying how they can afford it so why can't everyone else. And last having a split session doesn't mean non-uniform. Good Luck boys/girls this weekend.
Danny Burnett
620-332-7799

This post is still going strong... Wow!

It'd be like going to watch the Chiefs cept I'd rather watch my Son's wrestle any day of the week... or for the year for that matter I just can't call the Chiefs and ask them to change the game-time for me or ask them to lower prices for Beer and hot dogs - If I go watch a sport I enjoy, I make sure I have the money (or credit) for it - All sports are expensive regardless of the age, it's how much passion you have for it

I would rather be watching this sport as well, Jimmy. Credit?? That small percent of parents aren't calling the Chiefs or going to their games. Maybe we as coaches should say during signups in Nov. Parents it cost $X for 20 tourny's plus qualifing tournys'. If you can't afford it go buy a X Box its $300.00 one time fee, and if you have extra money you can go live.

wow read every post on this took awhile lol, might be the longest thread of 2012 i think all of you have some good points the only point i can't see is who in there right mind would want to watch the chiefs, i could see watching the broncos but the chiefs.

come on Jeff Chiefs will pick up Peyton Manning since he is older and how can you go with Broncos without Shannahan and Elway?

like i told bockman, broncos will give you chiefs tebow then u need to sign dick vermil back as coach, so when the chiefs are loseing one can be praying to god while the other is crying.

Yet there are 2 subs that are weighing from 5:30-8:00 the other six subs are weighing in from 6-8 (according to their event flyers), a "major item" said Matt Treaster! I hope they are doing this due to the miles they have to travel. They are getting and extra 30 mins to cut weight or make weight, however you want to look at it. Also 2 subs using the Split session format and 6 going with the standard format. Don't see the uniformaty. Not sure how, but if the by-laws don't say no satellite weigh ins and the Governing board doesn't keep it uniform (like they claim) why we can't follow the host tourny directors instructions (as per By-laws) and have a satellite with paid HS officials with their signature on skin/nail/hair and weight certification?

to funny-- it would be like a talk forum then

Bottom line, I am confident that a district could have a satellite weigh in, then spend money gettting an injunction to have a judge tell us that the kids who were declared ineligible, can still wrestle.........But who wants to spend money on attorneys? Sounds like we need to just let it rest for this year's series. Someone needs to make a proposal to be voted on at the state body meeting, so that we can do satellite weighins next year.

#1. Research needs to be done on the # state series that allow "satellite weigh-ins". The variables are substantial in the State series. Many already
have been described in this column. An informed decision making process brought forth as a proposal---however, this may be opening Pandora's box inasmuch as to does satellite weigh-in stop at subs, district or state? Easily arguable if its a time, $$ issue not so much if its an integrity issue. Would it truly come down to we'd have 'more participants' in subs? Doubtful.

< 2 years ago a university coach (CA) was fired for weight fixing his wrestlers.

***As well he should have been............And if someone would violate the trust that the wrestling community puts in him/her at a weigh in, they should be banned from any participation in our sport.*********