Will Ks. ever really compete

After watching the Newton TOC and watching a very good Tulsa Union team I realized this. They wrestle an all out college style and determined that until we adopt more of this we will never really compete on a national level. Don't get me wrong the Kansas kids held their own but that was the best of our state against 1 team. Before you start bashing let me explain. First off look at the schedules some other states will let their kids wrestle. They go where the best competition is no matter how many miles it is. Now some will say that we are students first then athletes. Correct- so raise the minimum GPA and we have better kids in both areas, students and athletes. As for the style, when on their feet they were in your face and constantly pressuring/attacking. When on bottom they were explosive to their feet and right back in your face. When on top they didn't waste time and energy. If the bottom kid even came close to getting away they let them go and went right back on the attack. How can we make our kids better so that they have more opportunities in college? IMO we can open the rules to allow more matches. We can let them travel to where the best competition is that the school and parents can afford to send them and we can raise the min. GPA to make them better students as well. Until we at least make an effort to lighten up KSHSAA rules and regulations I feel we are just handcuffing our kids and breeding mediocrity. Let the bashing begin.

Oklahoma University currently has 7 Kansas wrestlers on their roster. Napier is up at Nebraska, Disney and another at Cal Poly. I believe our wrestlers are doing a great job representing us on the College level. Can we improve our programs and technique, yes, and any program that wishes to stay strong will always continue to push their athletes to become more knowledgeable about the sport of wrestling.

Agreed with both 100%.. I wrestled in college and practice's were way more intense. I think if kids were pushed more then the wrestling would take care of itself. Also WE as in all kansas wrestling supporters need to get the 5 match rule changed, i think this is also holding us back. These kids do work hard, and nothing wrong with letting these kids get what they deserve. Yes it will be tough on them, winning isnt easy, wrestling isnt easy, so let them push themselves and again the wrestling will take care of itself.

Yes some of our kids are doing great. You mentioned 10 wrestlers why not 20 or 30. Why be happy with the status quo. Why not let all our kids push themselves as hard as they wish to?

Reshot has the right idea. And that you for bringing it up as I forgot about the 5 match rule. It is so ignorant of a rule that i sometimes forget how KSHSAA thinks.

I would love to see the 5 match rule lifted. Can they wrestle more than 5 in Oklahoma?

Again, the 5 match rule is a National Federation rule. Not a KSHAA only rule. If you're going to go against the National Fed, I think the 5 match rule would be more beneficial than home weigh-ins. Lets prepare our guys for shoulder to shoulder College weigh-ins. I understand the hardship for rural teams and long travels, but again I would rather fight for 6 matches than early weigh ins. I know my wrestlers love early weigh-ins. But you have to adjust to 1 hour before weigh-ins at the next level. Just like you have to adjust to wrestling more than 5 matches in a day. I'd trade KSHAA exceptions.

There are definitely more than I mentioned, these were just a few I knew off the top of my head. The 5 match limit is a national rule that the state of Kansas currently wishes to adhere too, but if we continue to let our voices be heard in Topeka, by e-mail, letters, and phone calls, we may some day accomplish the task on having this rule changed.
I would also like to point out our performance at the Senior National Tournament in Virgina Beach over the years. We have a very small population, but have finished in the top ten more then once. There are many programs around the state that are traveling around the country to attend camps, instituting summer training programs, and working hard to develop strong kid's programs. We have tough journey ahead, but true Kansans would have it no other way.

I don't know about 5 matches in one day in Oklahoma. But they do get more matches at a higher level.

I know its more then 5 matches because when they are not wrestling at a school duel or tournament they are allowed to wrestle at kids club events.
To me the big advantage is the amount of mat time the younger wrestlers get.
Say when that Tulsa Union team was here wrestling, younger kids that fall into the 15U group are allowed to wrestle at kids tournaments. Heck the HS coaches are allowed to coach them as well. This creates larger turnouts at the tournaments, which creates more revenue for kids clubs as well. Somekids club tournaments don't have the 14u division due to attendance levels.
They are also allowed in the rooms to practice with kids club coaches while still wrestling for the HS.
This allows the more workout time and a chance to be mentors to younger kids.
The 5 match rule, the 500 mile rule, and the seperation from kids club are holding them back compared to other states.

I don't think the gap is where a lot of people think it is. Kansas had some good teams at the tournament but not the best kansas has to offer. There are a lot of middle of road teams at Newton with 1 or 2 really good kids. Isn't Tulsa Union one of the best, if not the best in the state of Oklahoma. I would be surprised to see the same result every year.

side note:
Heard Napier packed it in and is not at NEB anymore.

MAJOR ISSUES CONTRIBUTING TO MEDIOCRITY:

We have almost NO former D1 wrestlers coaching at the High School level. (I think there is one)

We don't change our schedules enough and travel enough. (Many of the wrestlers in Johnson County see each other five plus times a season. Who gets better doing that?)

Deny, Deny, Deny! Most are not willing to admit that we are NOT doing anything to change things. Remember, an idiot is one who does the same thing over and over and expects different results.

KSHSAA. (Travel limits, competition limits, coaching limits, Christmas Break, Dead week, three or four state tournament sites, four state tournaments, no seeding at the state tournament, lack of promotion, failure to allow change, no sense of urgency, huge vacuum of our dollars!

No D1 program in our state. (Wichita State would be the best bet as they don't have a football program) What kind of team would we have RIGHT NOW with home grown talent? How many wrestlers would want to stay and coach HS after finishing their career? Our cheapest option for education and wrestling is FHSU and we don't even have their program fully funded yet.

More summer wrestling. It is sad that we have over 8,000 card carrying wrestlers but we get just over 300 for our FS/GR State and just over 100 at the Southern Plains regional. More HS coaches need to be active in the summer and get more kids into summer wrestling.

There are wrestlers who do compete nationally very well and obviously very well in the state or Kansas. But in order for the majority of the state to become more advanced and compete at the same level, you can't wrestle 3 months out of the year. But you also must grow with the sport. The states who consistently compete well nationally have D1 programs and have experienced coaches in the high school rooms passing their knowledge on. They aren't showing the five dollars moves that lead to bad habits. The are showing the basics that are going to work and then building from there. Tulsa Union is very well coached, but also very committed several of their kids compete in the summer and are doing extra. It doesn't help Kansas wrestling when coaches can't work with their kids out of the season.

IMHO this is the #1 reason, Spencer wrestled 17 matches during the high school season last year, he had around 110 matches outside of high school, this is where you can dramatically improve from year to year!

Is it just a rumor about Kansas State University starting a D-1 program in 2013?

The freestyle numbers won't raise until high school coaches can coach wrestlers out of the KSHSAA season. The State GR/FS meet date does not allow High school coaches to work with their athletes until days before the state tournament. This is a KSHSAA rule that definitely needs lifted. Tulsa Union is a tough team, but not all of their wrestlers wrestled like D-1 college kids. Many of their weights had kids who did not place at Newton. Where they are good they are good, but their line up had holes in it. They do have a coaching staff that is full of college wrestlers. Only 1 or 2 were D-1 wrestlers. Their head coach played football in college FYI. Union is a great team, but you also have to understand their enrollment is pretty large so they have a nice selection of athletes to choose from.

I agree with Will and Ed. The high school season is too short. If you want to get better, you have to do more in the off-season. Freestyle and Greco help our wrestlers between more well rounded and national level events help get our kids a taste of where the upper tier wrestlers are at. Until you measure yourself, how do you know how you're doing. Wrestling the same kids week in and week out sets us up for mediocrity.

Before we start promoting the growing of freestyle/greco state we better figure out how to make it run more efficiently. It was a nightmare last year and there were only 300 wrestlers. I am guessing but I bet there are more than a few kids and parents that won't attend this year because of the experience last year.

Also, but this is only MY opinion...........We as Dads/parents need to be involved in our kids lives. Having a high school coach that wants to be involved year round is great, but not an excuse for us to expect someone else to bring our kid to the next level. Who cares more about my kid than me? Nobody! This is a double edged sword. You don't want to be the psycho in the room, but all I'm saying is to stay involved. My kid knows what I am going to say before I can spit it out. He knows I will go to war for him and he knows that I won't sugar-coat a critique. He also knows that no matter what, I am proud of him. It's called being a parent. Behind them all the way, whether it's holding them up or pushing them to greatness. I hope he is as thankful someday as I am for all the Saturdays my Dad spent in hot stinky gyms.

it would be really nice to have the kids program be done the week before highschool state. for one so those kids can go watch and see what the next level is all about. 2 then the freestyle can start earlier and actually get something out of it. it takes longer than one month to learn another style of wrestling. first and foremost you have to have state reps that give a crap about wrestling and willing to listen and make changes. i dont see that in kansas. i think those guys on there now were there 20 years ago when i was in highschool and really havent changed anything that makes a big difference.

Tulsa Union also has some the best athletic facilities in the region, which helps attract the better athletes in the Tulsa metro area. Their football stadium and sports arena put many of Kansas' DII college programs to shame.

There is nothing stopping you from skipping a kids tournament to go watch high school state, like Spencer and I did last year.

i hear that every year. we do take a break. it would also be nice to just be done with the folkstyle season and begin freestyle season so we can enjoy a little time off for baseball. i hear it every year to take a break. well the kids need more than a one week break. they need to be kids to and the state needs those kids there to watch. the kids need to be there to watch.

Can HS coaches coach kids other than their own children during the summer? For some reason I thought KSHSAA frowned on that as well.......


Posted before I read Brandon's statement that HS Coaches can NOT coach their HS kids. Until I knew the rule, I wondered whey Charboneau was the only HS coach I saw at FS GR events, but then thought again, and couldn't remember him coaching anyone but his kid..........

Stupid rule.

I agree. Something that has always bothered me is when our Schoolboy, Cadet, and Junior duals teams leave some of our best kids at home. One time, I'd like to take the BEST that KS has to offer. Our placings would be much higher.

I believe part of it is that a few of our "best" kids, don't want to be "embarassed" by losing in front of their KS compadres. If they only knew how much better they could make themselves by taking advantage of being a part of Team Kansas.........

Tulsa Union has unbelievable facilites, the Union campus resembles a college campus,the best that money can buy across the city sits Jenks high school with a three million dollar facility on one end of the football field and a weight room that most colleges could not match.There is no high school that I can think of in Kansas that could come close to either one of these schools and that is just two of many high schools in the Metro area that are first class. Obviously there high school association has different rules than we do.I am sure that money is no object and they don't lack athletes in any sport.

Tulsa Union is currently ranked #20 (team) by the Intermat.

Could it be that Kansas has become defensive in its approach. Dont know, but it appears to be a big problem when winning is your objective. Hard to be competitive when defensive wins are an option. Keep it close wrestling and coaching is killing Kansas athletes. The atletes who will remain superior will be become offensive. The coaches who wish to be effective will adopt offensive approaches.

Take a look at the Rocky Welton tournament. Count how many wrestlers from Kansas were in the finals and take a look at the top team scores. Pretty sad! Will Kansas ever compete as a state?

Didnt get to see the results of the Garden Tourn. But Im curious Jack, how many of the kids who won that tourn., not from Kansas, required OT to do so? Compare that to other Kansas Tourneys and I think you will find an alarming pattern. Lots of OT finals matches in Kansas.....

6 Kansas wrestlers in the finals i know of personally one won by major decision, in two cases two kansas wrestlers made the finals in same weight class 160-152 171 KS wrestler defaulted due to injury.

Kansas HS wrestling coaches have been allowed to coach their HS kids in the summer for at least ten years. It was only two or three years ago that the KSHSAA allowed ALL coaches of ALL sports to coach their athletes in the summer. The restriction on coaching is basically during the school year; August through Memorial Day. From Memorial Day until the "magic date"in late July/ August there are almost NO summer coaching restrictions. (I am sorry, but I do not have that "magic date" committed to memory.)

That magic date would equal most of freestyle/greco season is the issue. Yes some of the hardcore wrestle through Fargo, but when the state FS.GR tournament is in May, coaches can't work with the majority of their kids.

They can, just not at those times! I see more summer wrestling going on than ever in history in this state. Yet FS/GR numbers appear to be static. You figure it out.

sporto- Can you tell me WHY? that is what I am trying to figure out!

Why what?

You stated "They can, just not at those times"

Why cant they coach at those times?

I dont know if the rumor about KState starting a D1 program but I do know that I wrestled for the club team when I finished with ball there and we had a pretty good program. We always finished in the top 15 or so I believe and always had atleast 1 or 2 placers including finalists and National Champs. The thing that I was told as to why we couldnt go D1 was the fact of Title IX and having a female program to match it.

That's an easy fix to title 9. Let the women wrestle too. Its the cheapest way to comply. You don't have to start a whole new sport for women. Just do them both at the same time, you'll probably get more support as well. I believe there are already 16 other colleges with women wrestling, and it's an Olympic Sport. If K State is already in compliance with Title 9 then add both men and woman wrestling at the same time to comply still.

OIC, well I hardly think I have all the answers but I can think of about a half dozen reasons alone. I don't claim any of these are accurate but just what I guess to be the reasons. First and foremost, KSHSAA probably thinks it best for both the student and the school, if a student is involved in as many school related activities as possible. The smaller schools depend on the 3-sport athletes to fill rosters in all sports. If they lose students to specialization then all sports will suffer, even our beloved sport. It is important to remember, that if the,(any), rule is changed for wrestling it will most likely be changed for all sports, (see the summer contact rule). I dare say, that the summer contact rule change for all sports, has had a negative effect on some wrestling programs where football is king.

Sporto I know you dont speak for HSHSAA but here is a place where you cant see the forrest for the trees...


"First and foremost, KSHSAA probably thinks it best for both the student and the school, if a student is involved in as many school related activities as possible....."

Where does the KSHSAA get the authority to think for parents?

I would think it would be the choise of a parent/ student to decide what opportunitiy to explore no matter what size of school.

Probably the same power trip pipe dream where Obama decided to tell us how to manage our health care........

You hit the nail on the head, KSHSAA, and a lot of school districts, feel like we are not smart enough to raise our own kids. They read in a book how to do it, and they are using that book to tell us how to raise 'em. I will say that there are plenty of parents that should have undergone the spay or neutering route though...........

When those parents decided to allow their student to attend a KSHSAA member school.


They can, they just have do it at a non-KSHSAA member school. Your problem seems to be with your school and it's being a member of KSHSAA, not KSHSAA itself.

How sweet of you to say. if you dont like they way they make the rules go somewhere else to play. KSHSAA is a servant and not Lord. It is another example of bloated government forgeting its role.

Don't you think there is some advantage to having a common set of competition and eligibility standards across the State? We ALL surrender some of our autonomy to be members of groups. . . Good grief, otherwise, we have anarchy.

Anyway. . .back to the summer coaching issue, which for HS wrestling in Kansas is a NON-ISSUE. . .

KSHSAA Article 6: "Beginning with the Saturday before Memorial Day, concluding Saturday of SWC #2 (ed. note: Standard Calendar Week #2 = Second Week of July), football, volleyball and basketball coaches/coaches' aides are permitted to coach athletes from their school squad."

KSHSAA Article 7: Coaches/coaches' aides OTHER THAN football, volleyball and basketball are NOT subject to the restrictions outlined in Article 6.

This means there are NO summer restrictions, time or otherwise, on HS wrestling coaches working with their athletes.

Except that KSHSAA is not a government agency. They are instead a private not-for-profit association which schools may or may not choose to join.

Greg I believe you are wrong on the summer coaching issue being a non-issue. Summer wrestling (freestly/greco) begins in early April, I believe Blue Chip had a tournament the same weekend of Brute the year before last. As such, practice would start for some in March. From what I understand High School coaches are precluded from coaching their kids until school is out?? Also, I think more Kansas kids would compete in Federation/Brute/USA Nationals if their High School coaches were allowed to coach, and maybe even, keep the practice room open. I understand the idea is to force kids who go out for sports to not specialize, Sportsfan2 has already said this is KSHSAA's goal, to get kids to try as many activities as possible. However, in most large schools specialization is a must for the average kid to even have a chance to compete. This rule is obviously in place to try and restrict a kid's opportunities.

Finally, thanks to opportunities created and faciliated by Willy C. and USA Kansas my son has gone to middle school/cadets/school boy duals and Kansas does compete well, but the teams are always a little thin. The rules need to be relaxed to really give Kansas a chance to win these contests. If we just had a Union we could file a grievance and get this changed.

It matters when other states allow their coaches to have year round contact with their wrestlers. While Sport0 may be entirely right I believe most coaches are fine with the current rules because it makes it easier for them. If the option were given to all coaches, only a few would take advantage of donating their time which would create a wider gap between the haves and have nots. Other states don't have dead weeks (we have two), don't restrict their wrestlers from attending clinics and open events during the season, don't restrict travel, etc. Doug is right, who the heck came up with the idea that KSHSAA knows what is better for our kids than we do? Sport0, public schools are tax dependent, KSHSAA is dependent on the schools therefore tax dependent and at the end of the day a governmental agency.

I said that was my guess as to what KSHSAA's reasoning was, I don't claim to know for sure. They may have a whole list of reasons of which I am not aware.

Then the HVAC company or another for profit business who's primary customer is a public school, are they also a government agency? What about the KWCA or other organizations? I know the line gets a little blury but if I were going into court, I would like KSHSAA's position to defend.

Give me a break sportsfan02. Are you really trying to say KSHSAA is not a government funded agency. They answer to our legislature and their board is full of government employees. And oh yes isn't Bowden retiring..... I wonder if that is some simple 401K that he taking with him to Nebraska. More like KPERS Im sure. Its like saying Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac has nothing to do with Washington DC..........

In a word, yes.

Don't we all answer to our legislature in one manner or another? Tell a farmer he doesn't answer to the AG department or the EPA!

Yes, he is also a retired teacher/coach and from the legislature. Not sure what retirement KSHSAA offers but even if it is KPERS I would strongly deny it is a state agency.

In my mind it's not saying anything like that, because they have nothing to do with this subject.

I am not against organizations and rules to follow. But when the rules do not make sense and there is no redress to adjust or change them, it can be frustrating.


It is just one of many examples of organizations becoming insulated from the constituents they are to serve.

But there are ways to redress or adjust those rules. Just because we as non-members don't have a say does not make the process wrong. I am not a member of any fraternal organizations so I don't try to get the Moose or Elks clubs to change their rules for me. If you want change, then talk to your coach and AD first and see if they agree with your point of view. If they don't then just maybe you're idea is not valid in the first place.

I don't have the answers/solutions to this topic but I did want to comment on the perceived "College Style". I started thinking about this earlier in the year and bounced an idea off of a friend yesterday too. I think the "College Style" of a few years ago (the one you describe) has morphed. Many/Most of the dominant wrestlers are now very solid in all three positions. Iowa wrestlers are a notable exception. Please coach your kids to wrestle all three positions!

Yes - they are similiar in this regard. KSHSAA, FANNIE MAE, and FREDDIE MAC are corporations set up by the government to do something that the government does not want to be perceived political. HOWEVER AS WE ALL KNOW THESE CORPORATIONS HAVE HIGH FALURE RATES. Its a bureaucratic effect...... Very little accountability over long periods of time, as bureaucracy does, has a tendancy to give lots of power to people nestled in proper positions. LOOK AT KANSAS EDUCATION IN GENERAL - ITS LOADED WITH IT!!!!

So Will and Sports,
Let's hear your campaign speeches!
If you were to Replace Bowden what changes would you seek out and why?
What would be the most important rule change to better KS wrestling as a whole.

I would think someone would say the 500 mile rule being lifted but with $ being so tight these days would it really benefit EVERYONE the most or just those that can afford it?

I support any rules changes suggested by the KWCA.
As to Bowden's replacement and to all of the Bowden Bashers out there. I can only relate to my past experience. Every time in my life when I had a boss whom I thought was bad in one way or another, each and every time that boss was replaced, it was with someone who was even worse. So my motto is, "be careful what you wish for".

Maybe there is a lot of bashing of Bowden on this site, that is not my intention at all. Bowden is, no doubt, a sincere, honest, and hard working professional. However, you can not put anyone in power for prolonged periods of time and not accept the strings that are attached. In business we have competition that holds power in check; In politics we have elections; Unfortunately in long term non-competetive appointments we have very little. Since we are talking about politics the best example I can think of is Washington. As great a leader he limited his role as President even at the urding of many americans to continue his Presidency. I think he knew power in human hands over long periods of time grows stale and self-serving.

As for me - I would separate EDUCTAION from ATHLETICS. Let Athletic minded people decide whats best for athletes and let Educators decide the necessary qualifications them to compete. Get rid of the people who are really educators at heart from making any decisions for the athletes when it comes to competition.

". . .would it really benefit EVERYONE the most or just those that can afford it?" Gee, isn't that the point to this entire debate about the role of a regulatory agency? There are those on here who think they/we should be allowed to do anything we are by-gawd big enough to do and no lily-livered panty waist snot nose should be able to tell us any different.

". . .separate EDUCTAION (not MY mis-spelling) from ATHLETICS." That would be adopting the European model; club sports for those who can afford it.

Sorry for the misspelling Mr. Mann. I do humbly disagree with you though. Team Knox has been belting out success for a while now and not too many of his kids are from wealthy families. You don't have to spend lots of money to make good athletes. However you must be able to compete. You can throw out all the insults you want but Kansas kids are not competing on a national level and the system does deter competiveness. Just one rule change that would allow kids to compete outside of school sponsored events would allow kids to compete in highly competitive venues within a few miles of most kansas towns. (1 day drive for sure.)

Insults? Really? Seriously? The "lily-livered panty waist snot nose" referred to would be people like me. . .and maybe if I had included these other descriptors: over-educated idiot who has no common sense and who is in favor of the "pussification of America" and who sucks at the teat of, and is a dreg on, our economy/society/American Way - - -think that covers it- - - it would have been more clear to who I was referring. So, I hope you see now Eddie that the "insults" were not directed at you.

But more importantly, aren't you kind of comparing apples to oranges? Kids wrestling has no concerns about academic eligibility, missed class time, credits or graduation. If that is the model you aspire to in your desire to separate EDUCATION from ATHLETICS then you are, in fact, talking about the European Model of Club Teams. . . (they could be called Kids Wrestling Clubs. . .oh, wait. . .)

But first, define "competing at a national level." By most definitions and as has been posted on this board, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, Kansas on a PER-CAPITA BASIS (we have a very small population base from which to draw) IS competitive at the National Level. But it seems some will not be satisfied until EVERY GOLD MEDAL IN THE NCAA D1 TOURNAMENT & OLYMPICS ARE WON BY WRESTLERS FROM KANSAS. Those who do have the gumption to point out with pride the many accomplishments of Kansas wrestlers are accused of being apologists and not having high enough standards.

You know, when I first joined this board almost eight years ago, there were quite a few high school wrestlers who posted here. We hardly see that anymore. Wonder if it has anything to do with their reading how Kansas wrestling doesn't measure up, they don't care enough, don't work hard enough, aren't serious about their sport because they don't wrestle twelve months per year and travel to the ends fo the earth to do it. . .

Some of on this Board need to reevaluate and realize there is more going on than HS wrestling. And I am one of them. Going to take a break from this insanity until State Wrestling when once again the big discussion will be how many college scholarships are lost because we don't have the State Tournament in one place. . .or is it because our kid's don't/can't/won't wrestle in the rest of the west (or is it the beast with yeast?), or whatever. . . Hope the rest of the season goes good for you and yours. Peace/Out.

Im curious Mr. Mann-

Will Ks. ever really compete??????

That is the question.... If you think we are competitive than just say so. But if not then what needs to give???

Finally, Just curious what side you feel you fall on? Educator or Athlete?

Good Good Luck to your team at State.....

The #1 ranked KS team was at the Newton TOC, and they got 11th.

^ To that post you also have to realize Basehor was the same weekend alot of your top kansas teams were not at the newton tournament, such as Goddard, Andale, Saint James and so on

only way kansas will compete is to stop letting your kids be kids. just make them wrestle all year round and do nothing but wrestling. most of the best kids in the nation do nothing but wrestle and dont play baseball, football or any thing else. if thats what you want go for it. my son is good in all sports and enjoys all sports so thats what we will be doing.

I would strongly disagree on the separation of education and athletics. As to Mr. Bowden, he was a coach! A wrestling coach if I'm not mistaken.

The question wasn't addressed to me but YES I do feel we are more than competitive on a national level.

A wrestling coach and official.

the advantage that some of these states has is geographic. look at PA for example, the exposure to college coaches and college wrestlers can really be a benefit. KS is getting more college programs and i think we will see the benefit soon. but i really think that most of you are missing the point.

will ks really compete? compete how?

compete best vs. the best? i think we compete well, but after that there is a huge gap. most ks teams have one or two elite wrestlers then the rest????

compete as a team? we don't compete well here at all, many teams struggle to fill rosters, when they do the spots are filled by less than great talent. depth is the key to building a lasting, successful program.

because we don't have many college programs, many athletes don't, won't, can't go to camps/clinics/ etc. with college coaches or wrestlers. the exposure is much more difficult to come by here is KS, than it is in other, more prominent states.

I've said it many times, until Kansas takes the BEST we have to offer, we'll never get a gauge of how we stack up. This is calling some people out, but if you are keeping your kid at home in the summer because you can't stand to see him lose a match, then you are not doing yourself, your kid, or the state any good. Come on, man up, and go wrestle the best. What is really tough is having only one kid at each weight, for both FS and Greco. Most states have two separate teams, one for FS, one for Greco. I've seen how beat up kids get wrestling one style, much less two. Year in and year out, we have multiple kids that wrestle 16 matches at the duals, with no break. Takes heart and guts for those kids to do that, but if they would get some help, it would take a little pressure off of them. Don't make me list names of the dads that protected their little boy from the competition, and came up with a lame excuse to not have their son on the team...........