106... Lightest Weight... Really?

I have twin boys who will be in high school in a couple of years and plan to wrestle. They have been wrestling in kids wrestling for 5 years. At their current growth rate I don't expect them to make 100 pounds by freshmen year. Since these are my first boys to be reaching high school I did not realize the lowest weight is now 106, which was recently moved up from 103. Can somebody please explain this thinking.... and is there any remote chances that a lighter weight would be added again?

The thinking is that 103 wasn't a full weight class. It is at the far left of the bell curve. The other consideration...How many FR start on varsity in any other sport? Very few. Why should a HS sport create a position that totally caters to FR? Probably not.

I agree with Will. I don't see this weight class going back down. I did see some very good undersized 103 pound wrestlers in 2010-2011 that were freshman who got some valuable varsity experience. This year, they were impact varsity wrestlers at 106 in their sophomore season. One that I know of struggled last year and placed at State this year.

I think we have too many weight classes. Need to drop down to 13 weight classes. The upper-weight classes that they have added are not full either. 105, 112, 119, 126, 132, 138, 145, 152, 160, 171, 189, 215, HWT

I agree as there are too many weight classes as is. I think we should go back to 12 spots. Too many open weights, including the biggest offender is the 106 lb weight class. Move up to 110, and cut out a weight class.

They will grow, my son was 67 lbs when he started 7th grade wrestling, and was 100 lbs when he started high school wrestling, 105 by the end of his freshman year. And we don't need to reduce weight classes we need to convince more kids to go out (and stay out) for wrestling.

The difference in the quality and quantity of wrestlers from 103 2 years ago to 106 this year was night and day, no way they would or should go back.

Would LOVE to see it go back to 12 weights. I do disagree and think that 106 should be left alone. My kid will be heavier than 106 in High School, so I don't have a horse in the race, but I like the 106 class. I would rather see them get rid or 215 or find a weight between 189 and 215.

Thanks for the feedback.... I'm not exposed to allot of HS wrestling yet and did not realize that the lower wieght classes were shy on kid count. I was under the assumption that this affected allot of kids, guess not. If that is the case I see the thinking. However it doesn't seem reasonable to move up from 106 because it may force allot of good kids to just say home, especially if they miss the dated to continue to wrestle at 14U.... that would be a bad idea.

If 3 pounds makes you stay home then you weren't very good anyway.

I agree with we have too many weight classes, but I am not sure where you would take out some weights. The upper weights 189, 215, HWT. These are some big jumps, so I dont think you can take any classes away from these areas.

Which brings up another question... if there is a freshmen walking around wet at 100 pounds that is not a varsity wrestler and still young enough to wrestle 14U, why not let him come back and wrestle in kids with kids his weight and still wrestle high school JV against the heavier kids to gain some high school experience as a freshman? It he wrestles in kids only he will miss out on one year of HS experience, if he wrestles in HS only he will most likely be wrestling kids cutting from 115, which doesnt seem like a good year of wrestling experience? Im just trying to understand the situation a bit better because I have a set of twins who are decent wrestlers that like to wrestle but are not growing.

I"m not talking 3 lbs, but thanks for the input. I'm talking about a 96 pounder (wet) wrestling kids that are cutting from 115 to wresle 106. There is a bit of difference there.

The Keller twins adjusted accordingly, with one wrestling 112 while weighing about 96 lbs.

". . .why not let him come back and wrestle in kids with kids his weight and still wrestle high school JV against the heavier kids to gain some high school experience as a freshman?" Joel499

Joel,

If your sons are out for high school wrestling, KIDS is unavailable to them until after the high school season is over.

If your boys wrestle KIDS instead of going out for high school wrestling, they will not be allowed to compete/practice with the high school team.

I agree we need to reduce the number of weight classes. In fact, we should just do away with the whole idea of weight classes entirely. High school wrestling is not about teaching young men to reach their full potential against equally-sized opponents. We should not worry about providing fair competition to lighter athletes who are outsized in other sports and have devoted all of their efforts to becoming the best wrestler they can be. Those little guys can sit on our bench just like they would on the basketball team.

While we are at it, we should do away with all of the classifications too. Combine the whole state, heck the whole nation, into one giant weight class with only one true champion. Anyone against this is just a softie who wants to give everyone a medal.

14oldschool,

What did you wrestle 98 pounds back in the day?

Although Mr. Mann is technically correct we all know that rule is very gray. Technically, NO ONE is allowed in the room but eligible HS wrestlers and coaches who are signed to a paid contract. How many rooms in KS strictly follow this rule?

Depending on where you live there is most likely a club practice you can participate in.
Nothing is stopping you from doing that. I know of kids around the country that wrestle opens and do not compete in HS wrestling if they are too small or cannot make varsity their freshman year. This is especially true if a FR is behind a stud in the line up. IMO, JV is for kids that haven't wrestled before. If you are still in the 14U age group, and the tournament does not prohibit FR from participating, those tournaments are much more competitive than JV HS wrestling.

Exactly. The best strategy to grow our sport is to drive as many of those little guys out the high school wrestling room as possible.

Right 14oldschool. We need more weight classes so nobody is left out. Lets make it like middle school and have 20 weight classes. Add a 95 pound, 85 pound and dwarf weight class. Heavyweights should be unlimited again. Its not fair to all those guys over 280 either. Maybe we shouldn't keep team score either so everybody wins.

my son Dakota Leach came in as a freshman at 85 lbs. He usually gets bigger at the end of the season, but unfortunately ended up weighing I think 88 lbs. He wrestled JV versus 14U. We had to accept his size so he needed to experience wrestling against bigger kids even if it was on JV and most of all he wanted to be part of his high school team which eventually the team were state champions that year and he helped our 103 wrestler become a state champion by being his practice partner. As a sophomore, lowest weight was still at 103, he started the season at about 92 lbs, end of the season at 100 lbs...(I think we all did the happy dance). He was able to compete on Varsity and took 4th at state. As a junior this year, he finally passed the minimum weight of 106 and became a state champion. It has been a tough road for Dakota but he stuck it out and never gave up and had faith that eventually some time during his high school years he would be big enough to compete. Sometimes life is not fair but you have to roll with the punches. I had to learn that. As a mom it was hard to see my son lose because of his size.

The rule is not gray but perhaps in some parts of Kansas the enforcement is.

IMO JV wrestling is to get kids ready to wrestle varsity.

No argument. I think it is a common practice to have alumni in your room and sometimes talented 8th graders.

My point is just that wrestling devalues the lower weight classes at its own peril. A lot of lighter kids are drawn to wrestling because it is a chance to compete on an even playing field. Remove that level playing field and you risk losing a significant "feeder" source of participants, including many who might go on to have great careers in the middle and upper weights.

That decreased participation is bad for the sport and it is bad for those kids who miss out on the life lessons that wrestling instills. I want more kids to experience wrestling, not fewer. Even if it means there is a low weight class that has some byes. That is why I would support inserting a weight class below 106 (100). The pool might not be as deep, but at the state tournament there will be some great wrestlers that are deserving of recognition. And that experience can be a very positive factor in their life, even long after they hang their wrestling shoes up.

There is a difference in regards to alumni as opposed to 8th graders. Heck, Coach Johnson has an annual Dad's day practice!

I don't think cutting back the number of weight classes is the answer. I think the focus should be on getting more wrestlers on the mat and keeping them on the mat. Why try to downsize the sport when we should be trying to grow it?

Does anyone know who the contact at KSHSAA is to run numbers and ages for these kids? I don't know if that is protected information or not, but it would be interesting to see the fall-out from the 14u class numbers to the certified kids at 106.
I would be more than willing to run these numbers into an excel sheet if you PM me the information.
USAW recognizes 14u weight classes all the way down to 75.
I am NOT suggesting this for HS so don't even go there....
I am curious though to see how KSHSAA affected those kids like mine that potentially weigh 100 by next fall.
Terry

It is NOT a KSHSAA decision. The weight classes are determined by a committee at the National High School level. This topic was debated heavily during the past 16 months. The biggest issue, imo, is that they took a weight class out of the middle of the bell curve and stuck it out on the right side. (140ish and stuck in 195 or 182 your pick). Many 14U are 8th graders. Ninth grade is sort of the "cusp" year for puberty. No one is getting left out. If you only weigh 80lbs you can wrestle 106.

Agree with Will.

What I saw this year at most tournaments was the new weight classes eliminated a full bracket of wrestlers from the middle weights, and split the 189 and 215 into three brackets, leading to there being three brackets with few wrestlers instead of two full(er) brackets. I did not see (out here anyway) that it increased the number of participants. In fact in most cases out here it seemed to have the direct opposite effect.

Ahhhh... My second most favorite forum subject.

Its been awhile since I did the research but I believe the lightest 7 percentile of 18 (ave. senior) year old kids take up 4 weight classes in wrestling. 4 weight classes in the middle, (45, 52, 60, 70 - or you can shift that to 38 to 60) have 50%. Thats 7 times the potential wrestlers per class in the middle. How fair is that.

The way I see it, a 98 lb freshman has it made going against a 107 lb soph, that is compared to any 152 lber with 7 seniors ready to kick his a@#.

My solution - If I was king of the world I would remove a weight from the bottom 4, a weight from the top 4, and squeeze one more in the middle. 13 tough weights!

DW, that is because your boys well (family's boys anyway) haven't seen 100 pounds since 6th grade. They do perform very well at those middle weights though. Nice to see Sacred Heart represented.

We should go back to 12 weight classes, just like in the early '80s? 98, 105, 112, 119, 126, 132, 138, 145, 155, 167, 185, HWT. That is how we advance the sport, less wrestlers wrestling in less weight classes? We should grow the sport so that fourteen weight classes are full for all teams. Thirty years later, and we want to go back to how it was? I am not seeing any progress in the sport if this is the case.

[quote]We should go back to 12 weight classes, just like in the early '80s? 98, 105, 112, 119, 126, 132, 138, 145, 155, 167, 185, HWT. That is how we advance the sport, less wrestlers wrestling in less weight classes? We should grow the sport so that fourteen weight classes are full for all teams. Thirty years later, and we want to go back to how it was? I am not seeing any progress in the sport if this is the case.


So you really think because you add more weight classes means more wrestlers go out?

How about this for a suggestion. Don't execute me for suggesting either.
Take away the 6 point loss for an open weight. Add in whatever weights you want. Just don't keep bumping up the lowest weight to try and help your team scores.
There are kids there. There just isn't very many of them. So, in turn for those kids that are there, we should make their opportunity to potentially less of an advantage???? How does this really make sense. They don't get as many matches. The bell curve is heavy with all ages between 140 and 180. So it is harder to make varsity if you are a larger freshman. I don't think that anyone in the smaller argument is saying that we should take away anyone's weight classes. Just asking for the lower weight to be put back the way it was. (for the little guys).
JMO
Terry

Who doesn't want to see more wrestlers going out and competing to the best of their abilities? I am one person, and I honestly don't have the answer. There needs to be more wrestlers involved at the High School level. There were 372 U6 wrestlers at the U6 State Championship this year. How many of those competitors will wrestle in High School? If they don't, why? If we can answer this question, then we will have fourteen full weight classes for most High School programs.

When my twin brothers were in high school (both state champions) one was able to wrestle as a junior and the other couldn't wrestle until he was a senior due to their size. I come from a family of very small people, every boy in my family wrestles. I just think we are hurting the chances of recruting some very fine small wrestlers as we continue to up the lowest weight. As someone stated before; the attraction to wrestling was for some that there was at least a level playing field (mat) for smaller athletes. Make no mistake, our young wrestlers are very competitive and would and have had to wrestle giving up alot of weight and are usually successful but is that really how it should be. Let's not continue to penalize the small athletes.

Not to get too intense on this subject and certainaly not trying to change the entire concept here. Just would like some conderation for the "little" guys who have worked their butts off for years. I would say a simple rule change allowing the 14U "small"(boys that are under 106??)non HS varsity wrestlers to be able to wrestle KIDS if they meet that criteria. It would be better for them in terms of being able to be in a HS practice room but still get the level of competition that will make them better as they become upperclassman (and GROW). I don't see how that affects the current integrity of either HS or KIDS? No weight changes, adding/subtracting weights!! Heck if we let VARSITY HS 14U STATE CHAMPS COME BACK AND WRESTLE KIDS STATE CHAMP SERIES, what would be wrong with letting the little freshmen non varsity 14U guys come back and wrestle the regular season matches just so they can have better competition? (as long as they meet the criteria) And yes there is a difference between a super stud 100 pounder that can compete at the high school level and a decent 100 pounder that needs another year or two of good wrestling to be at the same level. If as Freshmen the HS format doesn't provide these guys a reasonalble and comparative situation as it does the heavier guys, why not provide an "middle ground" alternative for them? How would this negatively effect anything?

I disagree. The KSHSAA doesn't provide a better solutions for heavier kids. How would you like to be a 220 pound freshman wrestling Luke Bean? As a freshman, you come in and take your licks or not. I think it is harder for the bigger kids to come in compete due to the fact that they have to compete against a higher percentage of upper classmen. At 106, they are competing against mostly freshman and sophomores with a few exceptions thrown in. In total, there were 7 juniors and 3 seniors in the 106 pound division at state and that includes all 4 classes.

Yes but all those freshmen or sophomores have been wrestling there whole life. Show me a first year wrestler at 106 or 113 that could place at state. I could name off a bunch of first year wrestlers at the upper weights that could place at state. Our old coach Terry Alley was famous for getting big guy's that were good athletes to come out for wrestling, and by the end of the year they were scoring points for us at state.

Dan Gentzler-Andover Central

We did that when I was in school too, but we took a junior that was an all-conference linebacker and by his senior year he was kicking butt. If you are right about first year wrestlers that are freshman and they can place at state at higher weight classes, I don't know any. Also, I wasn't saying it was easy to place at state at 106. I was just stating that it is at least as difficult to place at state at the higher weights as a freshman.

I'm not comparing to the higher weights because those kids are wrestling kids their own weight or at least to a closer percentage to thier weight. And most of the time if a freshmen is weighing 220 there is a really good chance he could drop allot of weight if he would get out from behind the ice cream and cake. It's almost unheard of to see a 220 cut stud freshman (if he is this won't be an issue for him anyway), as compared to a 100 pounder who works his butt off to stay in shape. Furthermore do you think that a 220 pound freshman would find better competition by wrestling in KIDS?? I don't. But I'm sure that a 14U 100 pounder could. I'm trying to keep this topic relative only to kids that are 14U Freshmen, non-varsity, and under 106 lbs. As long as they are not varsity let's let them come back and wrestle KIDS open matches during the season, but still get some JV HS experience along the way. It seems like a no brainer!

[quote] if a freshmen is weighing 220 there is a really good chance he could drop allot of weight if he would get out from behind the ice cream and cake. It's almost unheard of to see a 220 cut stud freshman (if he is this won't be an issue for him anyway), as compared to a 100 pounder who works his butt off to stay in shape. [quote]


You're making the implication that 100 pound freshman are in shape, have a disciplined lifestyle and work harder then their heavier classmates that are lazy, eat too much ice cream and cake, play too many video games and just aren't as dedicated to wrestling.

Then the 100 pound kid shouldn't have any trouble getting in the gym and loading up on a protein diet and put on 6 pounds.

No I didn't say that "fan of the sport".... I was stating a simple fact. But thanks for the input, maybe thier is some truth to that??? I don't really know or even have an opinion on that, but it sounds like you do?? I would tend to guess it would be a bit more healthy for an overweight kid to lose a few pounds as compared to a small 14U kid trying to put on pounds??? Just a thought, what do you think? Regardless, not the issue here. I would suggest you start another topic on that if you want opinions.

A lot of the freshman and sophomores are seasoned veterans and do very well when they first come into the High School ranks. Wrestlers are getting much better at a younger age. Many are wrestling year 'round. Take a freshman like Dulgarian for example, I don't care if he was 120 or 220 as a freshman, he would still be a force to reckon with.

You got an opinion and thats alright. People are interesting with opinions and you left yourself open on the comment.

I've seen a lot of freshman 100 pounders that could eat a few steaks, and I've seen some 200 pound freshman that should be banned from Steak and Shake. Wrestling is good for all of them.

OK, good point "fan of the sport", but that is not the subject here so I'm not following your point and how your opinion weighs in on the subject?

I haven't really heard anything negative that would impact either KIDS or HS wrestling if there was a rule in place that would allow a HS Freshmen who still is of the age to qualify for 14U, not wrestling HS varsity, under 106 lbs (maybe <100), to practice with the HS team and wrestle the JV meets against the bigger kids, but still be able to wrestle the open KIDS meets if they so choose in order to get some good matches in with kids thier own size. What could this possibly hurt? We can't compare this situation to any of the heavier weights because they all have kids their "size" to wrestle.... its not about wrestling tougher kids or not, its about having kids of the same size and comparable strength to wrestle. Through the years HS took this away from the smaller kids, 1st 98, then 103, and there are folks who want to move it up higher from 106!!! But no effort to give the yonger smaller Freshmen a better wrestling enviornment?

I don't understand why the JV tournaments don't provide this opportunity? I don't know this for certain, but I'm guessing there would be more than 1 small freshman at the JV tournament. Seems like the perfect opportunity for these lightweight freshmen to wrestle against each other.

Actually, KSHSAA should "allow" ANY HS wrestler that is still eligible for 14u, or 15u in Oklahoma, to compete at other events during the high school season. Tulsa Kickoff, Tulsa Nationals, USJOC. Cokeley has mentioned plenty of other tourneys.......

I really dont understand this discussion?! A freshman is a freshman no matter how much he weighs isn't he? If he is not good enough to make the varsity he wrestles JV. It's that simple...isn't it? I don't know but that's the way it was when I went to school. Who says that the lightest weight should be reserved for a Freshman when there are many upper classmen who wrestle there anyway.
My son started 2 ways on the football team (OL, DL), placed at state his freshman year @ 285# and set the school record for homeruns as a freshman. He didn't complain about anything, but knew going in he would have to work harder than he had before.
Whoever is crying about adding 3 lbs to the smallest weight holds no water with me. We can't find anyone in our school to wrestle 106 other than girls. We use them to take the 6 when the other team is open. I think the weight needs to be increased to fit the powerlifting weights anyway.

Being good enough and just not big enough are two different things, that's why 130 pounders don't wrestle 170 pounders. If any kid is 106 or above its not an issue because they have the opportunity to wrestle kids at a comparable weight, if a kid is a 95 pounder and wrestling a 106 pounder cutting from 115 that is a 20 pound disadvantage.... That results in the HS program not providing the 95 pound highschooler an appropriate weight to wrestle. All I'm saying is let the kid wrestle some KIDS matches during the season in order to get some good matches with comparable sized kids.... what is so hard to understand about that? And how would that hurt the integrity of HS or KIDS wrestling, it's a simple concept to provide the kids matches with other kids thier age and size! It is obvious that the folks with bigger kids are not for this, but hard to understand why? It doesn't affect the heavier kids nor does it affect the HS wrestling format whatsoever. I have heard folks try to compare situations with their heavier kids, whom this really doesn't effect, but still have yet to hear what damage it would do to let the young light freshmen who still are eligible for 14 and not wrestling varsity HS, wrestle some KIDS meets during the season just for the purpose to get some better matches and a chance to continue to improve against kids there own size and age. WHAT WOULD IT HURT?
Fact: A 14U 95 pound freshmen is still indeed a highschooler.
Fact: HS wrestling does not provide a suitable weight class for a 14U 95 pound highschooler.
Fact: HS rules do not allow the 14U 95 pound highschooler to wrestle KIDS meets during the season if they are on the HS team. It seems that this results in taking away opportunity for a better year of wrestling for the 14U 95 pound highschooler?
Fact: Installing a rule that would allow the 14U freshmen, under 106, non-varsity wrestler to wrestle KIDS meets during the season would have no negative effect whatsoever on the HS program, other HS weights, and/or other HS kids. It would be a display by the HS program to provide these wrestlers the best opportunity to become better wrestlers as they grow and enter the sophmore year.
Fact: The rules already allow these 14U HS kids to come back and wrestle KIDS for the state championship series after the HS season is over.... even the HS varsity 14U state champs! So there should be no issue with the non-varsity 14U kids to wrestle the open KIDS meets during the season. It seems that it would only provide the 8th grade kids more competition in KIDS and the opportunity to make them better.
This is just my opinion... and though allot of folks may choose not to agree with it becuase their kids are bigger and have a respective weight to wrestle, it would be nice to hear reasoning with regard to WHY OR WHY NOT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD RULE TO PUT IN PLACE? AND HOW IT COULD HAVE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON ANYBODY? AND HOW IT COULDN'T HAVE A POSTIVE IMPACT ON THESE YOUNG SMALL HS FRESHMEN WHO LOVE TO WRESTLE?

It seems that many people on this forum are astounded anyone in high school could weigh any less than 120lb. It is not that hard really. I just locked both of my boys in a closet with no sunlight, minimal food and no exercize at all until I could unleash their 90lb wrath on an unsuspecting high school wrestling community!! After two years of raw meat, mounds of pasta and an unrelenting workout program my oldest, a junior, was able to make 106lb and wrestle someone his own size. I am hoping that what I learned with my oldest, will allow me to get my youngest, a 91lb freshman, up to 106 before next year.
Most people won't be happy until the lowest weight class is at 120 or above. Then we can switch to the college forum and wonder what happened to all the 125lb wrestlers.

Thanks for the tip on the raw meat and pasta. I am going to try that.
Do I have to take mine out of the closet or can I just throw the meat in and run?

I hear this one loud and clear. 88 going on 106.

I reject and resent any comments that imply that 103/106 “caters” to freshman and should be raised or removed.
106 caters to small wrestlers just as 285 caters to big wrestlers.

I do agree that obviously if you are at 106 you will wrestle more freshman than if you are at a bigger weight but that certainly doesn't mean that it will be easier. Probably the opposite in many cases as some of the responses previously stated.
I do agree that some kids will make the team at 106 that wouldn’t have made it at another weight but they won’t be that good, they won’t make an impact, so that doesn’t really matter.
A 106 pound championship is just as legit as any other weight championship and more legit than some weights.
I don’t agree that 106 is necessarily more competitive than 103 was. I am sure that could vary from year to year but definitely not night and day as stated.
I am not saying that we need to lower the weight or add a smaller weight, but we definitely don’t need to raise the lowest weight any higher.

Joel499, 14oldschool, REVOLUTION and ReDPloyd all made good points and Tommyboy was right on point.

The best of those little dudes are total BA’s. Yes they are very athletic, and well conditioned, and highly skilled, and perhaps even more disciplined. And in some cases, the best of those little dudes are the best pound for pound.

Let me submit for approval the following list:
Bo Pursel
Austin Hood
Aaron Seybold
Dylan Schumacher
Konnor Kriss
Colby Watters
Javier Vieyra
Lincoln Lemon
Zach Dremel
Tommy Williams
Anthony Calderon
Jason Perez
Hunter Stalford
Alex Wolfe
Ty Kolterman
Clay Mulligan
Alex Garcia
Austin Avelar
Andrew Morgan

What does this list represent?
Yes it represents wrestlers graduating this year. But for the purpose of this discussion, it represents wrestlers who wrestled at 103 at state as freshmen. Every one of them would have been BA no matter what weight they were at or what grade they were in. All of them certainly could have made the team at whatever weight they weighed when they were freshmen and they would have been just as successful. They were tough enough, skilled enough, good enough. They just happened to be small freshmen.
Pretty BA list huh. Every one of them went on to multiple medal careers and all were either a champion or a runner-up and most at a heavier weight, many at the traditionally toughest middle weight.