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Where's the fire? #7290 02/02/03 02:47 AM
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wrestledad Offline OP
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First of all, I think that the Salina club put on a very good tournament. Nicely done.
My objection for this posting is w/ an official, who was working there (mat 3 & mat 1, that I know of), and who also had a son wrestling in the tournament. I think that this was poor judgement on his part. The ref. never officiated one of his son's matches, but was rubber-necking like crazy to watch any match that was taking place on that mat, or in that bracket. Additionally, there were a minimum of 2 matches (that I saw personally) that he rushed through, immediately switched w/ another ref, only to run over to watch his son's match.
Regardless of how much experience, knowledge, or skill that he feels he might have to accomplish these two simultanious tasks, I think that seperating your loyalties in a situation like this is not fair to the kids who show up at the mat, counting on an impartial, and properly run match. Honestly, I have never been overly impressed w/ the quality of the officiating on any match that this official has worked (last year, or this year). However, I would hope that in the future, any potential official who has more personal, and pressing matters to attend to at a tournament refrain from trying to work at that tournament.

Re: Where's the fire? #7291 02/02/03 02:06 PM
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VanFam7 Offline
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Ditto! This guy should try to look at it from the other side! I'm sure he would not appreciate his son's matches being officiated in this matter.


Annette & FJ VanAnne
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Re: Where's the fire? #7292 02/02/03 03:40 PM
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also, on matt 12 of what i have watched the refferee would not call anything! I saw one guy grab someones finger and he was looking straight at it and he did not call it. He wouldn't call stalling either. (Well, i dont think any ref did) and also he didn't call pottentially dangerous when a guy punched a guy twice! and did an illegal crossface about 4 times. I didn't think the refs did a very good job at this tournament.

Re: Where's the fire? #7293 02/02/03 10:42 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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You will find several officials at tournaments who have either kids they coach or their own kids wrestling. There are roving officials assigned to relieve for the purpose of taking a break or to watch another match. Did you ever witness this official making bad calls? Was he looking over at the other mat during the action on his mat? I doubt it. If the official was blowing calls then it should have been brought to the attention of the tournament director. I am curious as to how an official rushes a match. 3 minutes is three minutes. Did you feel he was pinning kids when they weren't pinned? Bringing kids back to the middle and keep the action moving is the sign of a good official. Several coaches try to coach during the breaks and this delays the progress of the matches. Coach at practice and let the wrestlers wrestle at the tournaments! Overall I felt the officiating was very good at Salina. I think this is a bogus beef. If someone wants to coach and officiate then he is obviously very involved in the sport and this is the type of person I want to be making the decisions on the mat, not someone who has read the book and taken the test.


Will Cokeley
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Re: Where's the fire? #7294 02/03/03 03:44 AM
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wrestledad Offline OP
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Mr. Cokeley,
I do appreciate your well spoken thoughts on this subject. However, I would still suggest that it may be more suitable, and cause less problems for all, if officials attended tournaments as officials only. Not, official/coach/father. I understand that there are extra officials available for tournaments for relief. I can just tell you that I would never knowingly hire an official who was a coach of a team attending, or who had a kid wrestling in the tournament.
Most officials earn every bit of the pay that they get by working tournaments. Tough job, lots of stress. I openly say that I could not do it, and do not want to do it. And yes, I would say that I saw this official make some terrible calls, and forget to give points (until prompted by coaches) in his hurry to get the kids back into the middle to continue wrestling. (That is not the sign of a good official) Yes he was checking out the other mat in between matches. No, I don't think he "pinned" anybody that was not pinned. (Regarding your comment on contacting the tournament director: When your sitting 10 rows from the ceiling of the building, cheering for and then consoling your kid who just lost because of a terrible call, w/o a coaches pass, it is pretty hard to make it down through the crowd, onto the floor, find the tournament director and tell him about a problem like this, that happened 2-3 matches past. As most parents who come to watch their kids wrestle would agree, this would be a tough point to make stick w/ a tournament direct in the middle of the states largest tournament.)
Still, I do question your thoughts on this being a "bogus beef". Correct me if I am wrong on this, but I believe that you are the same guy who thought it would be OK to work as an official at your own clubs tournament last year. Not to mention working as an official at this weekends Salina tournament, in which your club, and your son, wrestled.
I welcome additional comments from others on this topic.

Re: Where's the fire? #7295 02/03/03 01:52 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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wrestledad,
As usual, this appears not to be a complaint in general but a specific attack directed at me by yet another coward who will not disclose their identity. Did you come to the tournament to watch wrestling or to critique officials? Are you an official? If you were ten rows from the top how do you know what was going on down on the mat? Every official takes breaks during the tournament as no one officiates for the entire day. Are you going to me that the sport would be better off if officials didn't use their breaks to watch their kids wrestle? If you excluded all of the officials who have kids that wrestle who would officiate? What is the problem with me officiating my own club's tournament? I donated the usual pay back to the club. Did you find that I gave preferential treatment to wrestlers from my club? Why is it you have chosen to know so much about me? Do you feel that I cheated your son? Because of your post I am going to reconsider officiating again. Not because I think you are right but because I am tired of all of the chicken#@$&% people. I know they are few in number but I have better things to do with my time. Again, crawl out from under your hidden identity and be somebody if you have a legit complaint!!


Will Cokeley
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willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: Where's the fire? #7296 02/03/03 04:28 PM
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I think the kids wrestling officials do a super job. Even if they are not the best sometimes at making calls, I feel they are there to support kids wrestling and make extra income for things like X-mas and so on. This subject on the other hand is definitely not "bogus beef" - I am a coach and a ref. and feel that there is conflict between the two. As a ref, I can not be completely focused when kids that I coach are wrestling nearby. I can't imagine if I had kids of my own wrestling at the same tournament. I think you could still do your job, but maybe you should request a mat away from your sons mat and definitely use your replacement five matches before your son wrestles. These kids deserve your complete interest while they are wrestling. I do not know the situation that is mentioned above so these words are not directed toward anyone in particular, I just have experienced this same situation myself. Thanks, Coach Rees

Re: Where's the fire? #7297 02/03/03 05:15 PM
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Cokeley Offline
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In general there is some legitimacy to the original post but it wasn't being written in general. While wrestling is taking place then the official should focus 100% of his attention on this his mat. Between matches is it okay to look elsewhere while the table is preparing for the next match? There will be some bad calls no matter what but to segregate those who want to officiate and bring their kids to a tournament is not acceptable. You can do both and should be allowed to do both if you are able to focus.


Will Cokeley
(708)267-6615
willcokeley@gmail.com
Re: Where's the fire? #7298 02/04/03 11:40 PM
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saffire Offline
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I was at the Salina Tournament. Could the officiating have been better?
Yes, but that's just sports in general. It's wrestling, it's baseball,
it's football, it's soccer. My son got pinned at the Salina tournament
underneath the score table. Were they both out of bounds? Boy, it sure looked like it.
But guess what, he wouldn't have gotten pinned if he hadn't gotten
in that situation in the first place. Officiating good or bad happens.
It's just sports. I guess wrestlers will just have to work harder, to
become better wrestlers to overcome bad officiating. That's life.
Isn't it better these young people learn this now.

Re: Where's the fire? #7299 02/05/03 12:40 AM
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ghens Offline
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Regarding officiating at home games, or games where your family/friends are participating: This occurs in every sport because usually it's easier to find officials who live near the event, or who are going to be at the event. I don't think we should bar them from officiating just because their child/friend may be participating.


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