I just got done watching it on TV. As professed many times on here before, I respect the refs. I knew it is a very hard job. And, I know that I don't know all there is to know about what is or isn't a takedown. And, finally - I reffed for one year and I sucked!

From what I say on the TV, it looked like they were CLEARLY out of bounds and that NO TWO points should have been awarded. That the match should have been decided in OT.

Others thoughts on this please?

PS: I was impressed with Nelson's demeanor with accepting the loss. Class act. But again, your thoughts (anyone?) on the call? I think Coach C but have posted them earlier but I don't want to hunt for them and I don't remember what they were.

Thanks.

DAVID DEAN WELSH

Not two points! I had a front row seat.

On the video it looked like they were CLEARLY out of bounds. I couldn't believe it. I watched it like three/four times to make sure. Thanks Chief.

Big KUDO's to Chase for taking this horrible injustice so well. Nothing against Feldkamp. He is not the one that made the call.

Dean

In the video did it appear the referee and assistant referee were in position to make the call?

In the video does it appear the 6A mat was located so closely to the Coliseum seats that a fan would be in a better position to question the call of the referee's?

As I recall, the two finals mats are centrally located on the Coliseum floor and are a minimum twenty feet from the first row of elevated seats.

What I do know is the action was far away from the head table where I was seated and the tournament referee's (with the exception of the already discussed 215 lb. semifinal match referee) were some of the best our state has to offer.

SECTION 26 TAKEDOWN
ART. 1 . . . It is a takedown when, from a neutral position, a wrestler gains control over the opponent down on themat and the supporting points of either wrestler are inbounds. When a majority of the defensive wrestler�s weight is borne on a hand(s), it is considered a supporting part(s).
ART. 2 . . . A takedown shall be awarded when one or both knees of the defensive wrestler are touching the mat beyond reaction time or when the defensive wrestler�s legs or torso are controlled and the majority of the weight is supported by the hands.
ART. 3 . . . In awarding a takedown at the edge of the mat, control must be established while the supporting points of either wrestler are inbounds or while at least the feet of the scoring contestant finish down on the mat inbounds.

Nelson vs. Feldkamp


Here you go!

Come on Coach W. I have seen the footage. What is YOUR call?! In or out? Takedown or no takedown?!

;-)

Thanks!

I knew you had seen the footage, but did not know if everyone else had. I had not seen it and was curious so I went to the internet to find it and figured I would post the link so others would not have to go hunting.

Not only was it out of bounds there was no control established.
At one point when Nelson had the side by side locked up Feldkamps knees and one elbow touched the mat, is that not a takedown?

Jason Murdock

Not necessarily, he was not inside or behind the near elbow was he? It looked like he had his near leg in and a side headlock or bulldog with the far arm. Kinda hard to tell and I don't have slow motion.

Not only did Nelson take the injustice well, props to you Chase, the entire Heights entourage took it well and took it on the chin as the "injustice" may have cost them a team trophy. The whole thing is very sad. Church, the other coaches and the wrestlers and their parents have worked way too hard for something like that to happen. No way for the seniors to go out.
Oh well, it is what it is. We all know that life is not fair and we were all reminded of that when this happened.
I would like to think that something good would come from this but I really can't think of what that is right now. It will make the Falcons very hungry for next year but again, that won't do the seniors much good.
I do not want to take anything away from Feldkamp though with these comments. He did his job and did a great job and may have won anyway.
Congrats to Feldkamp and Derby. And congrats to Nelson and Heights. In spite of the controversy, the Falcon family had a great year.

He was behind the near arm and actually reached across and took the far post arm also.

Jason Murdock

Maybe so? I had trouble telling if he was behind the near arm when he came to the mat?

well to me it looked as if when they were going out of bounce chase was on his back and feldkamp had the head hooked you have to pay attention to the legs because alex's right leg was in but his left tippy toe was still in to and by this time chase is on his back and alex has his leg good call

it's pretty fast action, but wouldn't argue it too long. looked like a good call to me. it's a judgement call, there isn't too much to go off of, as far as placement, etc. straight judgement call. have enjoyed seeing both wrestle for the last couple of years. congrats to both young men.

FIRST, I'm not 'slamming' either kid. It just looked like either a ridiculous quick count and/or one of F.'s feet where clearly out of bounds by a good two inches.

But, as Richard noted, I was not there mat-side. And as I have noted, I am a terrible ref. Just trying to 'call it the way I saw it'. Which of course accounts for/means NOTHING! I was just curious if others that enjoy the sport saw it in a similar fashion as me. Like most close calls, some did - some didn't.

SECTION 26 TAKEDOWN
ART. 1 . . . It is a takedown when, from a neutral position, a wrestler gains control over the opponent down on themat and the supporting points of either wrestler are inbounds. When a majority of the defensive wrestler�s weight is borne on a hand(s), it is considered a supporting part(s).
ART. 2 . . . A takedown shall be awarded when one or both knees of the defensive wrestler are touching the mat beyond reaction time or when the defensive wrestler�s legs or torso are controlled and the majority of the weight is supported by the hands.
ART. 3 . . . In awarding a takedown at the edge of the mat, control must be established while the supporting points of either wrestler are inbounds or while at least the feet of the scoring contestant finish down on the mat inbounds.

Are Chase's scapula inbounds?

Are the scapula Chase's supporting points while Feldkamp has Chase on his back in near fall criteria?

It appears, at 13 seconds remaining on the video, Feldkamp MAY have established control with Chase on his back, while Chase scapula MAY barely be in bounds, and Feldkamps left foot clearly on the way out of bounds.

Wrestlers are considered inbounds if the supporting points of either wrestler are inside the boundary lines.

Good points. Thank you Richard.

Just to clear the record Coach Church (myson:-) has moved forward and so has Chase. Chase as DWelsh has correctly stated took the loss like a man and last time I saw him he was enjoying life like any normal kid, (not crying about the loss). Another thing correctly stated is the people,athletes,coaches,administrators,fans,parents,all work very hard to make Heights wrestling successfull. They work equally as hard on all their sports.After sitting in the bleachers with Heights parents and fans I can tell you honestly that I have never sat with a group of people, that worked so hard, have so much passion to make the sport of wrestling as successful as they can. Im not saying others don't work as hard, i'm just saying Heights is proud of their teams and fans contrary to the imoral injustices a very few like to point out on a continuous basis. They are not whinning, they don't think they are the wrestling gods, they don't think they are above anyone else, but let me speak for them , this is on me not anyone else, I know this group of kids/parents/and coaches are already chomping at the bit for next year. One other thing, watching two wrestling referees on one mat is much like trying to get one cop to testify against another. Its not like that a secret, in the stands or on the floor.

no control established. dont need a front row seat to see it. bad call . would have liked to see an overtime finish. refs are human. he blew the call. u have to get over it. i believe both kids have fine futures ahead of them.

I'm 'over it'. I think most others are to. I was just wondering what others thought about the call.