Was it just me or did the refs during the 6a finals seem inconsistent on takedowns - especially ones near the edge?

I have watched probably the last 15 state tourneys. Never once had I left without talking about the great wrestling we saw. Tonight on the drive home, we talked more about the reffing than the wrestling (although we also enjoyed the wrestling).

No disrespect to any one. We all have off days but dare I say it, did the overall performance of the refs during the 6a finals seem poor to any of you that watched? Again, I can never remember a tourney in which me and my buddies talked more about what we thought were bad calls and kids getting screwed than we talked about the actual wrestling.

I can give examples tomorrow. Bed time now.

Semis hell, I had watched several refs that determined matches from their calls, giving points, then taking them away. Call stalling, give a point then allow it for the same tactic that they called it on previously and then allow it for the same team on another match. Wow, what a day, I am so glad that I am not those two officials when they sit in front of their tvs to watch the finals they set their DVRs to record. Can you imagine watching yourself on the tv and going wow I gave that kid the match? Not me, on another note congrats to those wrestlers that won their championships and to those who placed in this years state tournament

Agreed. It is the only time in 15 years I left the tourney with a sick feeling in my stomach. That feeling was because it seemed to me that many careers of hard working young men were suddenly and unfairly ended by some refs bad call.

Hey Will, one example of pussification. A certain wrestler in the finals has his opponent on his back with a simple half nelson. He is about to pin his opponent when all of the sudden -you guessed it - the ref steps in and STOPS the match! The kid getting pinned seemed in no danger of injury. I know, the ref was right there - I wasn't. But GHEZ, give the pinner 10 more seconds and the match is over via pin and his team gets more team points for a pin, he gets the satisfaction of knowing he won by pin - but no, the ref took all that away by what seemed an early (very early) and premature stoppage. Upon the restart the pinner had about 40 seconds left to this year's high school season. He seemed demoralized and merely road the kid out. Who could blame him???

Hey Wrestling67, are you the big dude that was sitting to the left of me with the Nebraska stuff on? GO BIG RED! ;-)

you are definitely entitled to your opinion, but my answer to anyone who complains about refs is to throw on the stripes yourself....

I understand and agree so I am a hypocrite. But, again - I have never left a state finals tourney with the feelings I described above. I was just curious what others thought.

I understand it is a very, very difficult and demanding job. I also understand that most of the fans don't know the rules as well as they think they do (me included).

I'll talk to a friend that does know the rules very well (i'll show him the tape, even though he was there live at the finals himself) and have him educate me on the calls that I thought were not right.

Nobody is perfect and probably 90% of the calls I thought were called wrong - were probably called correctly. Finally, I understand reffing is an art and there is a degree of subjectivity to it (i.e. 'judgment calls).

BTW, I had the stripes on for one year back in the early 80's. I was so bad at it that after one year, I fired myself. It goes ton fast and you have to process a lot of info fast and you have to deal with hostile people. No thanks. So, thanks for the reminder Klint.

Klint, I think about that alot, but I would hate it myself if I screwed up that mutch in just 1 match.Now that said he didnt only cause the wrestler his match, he caused the team their title too!

many other places along the line to have gotten those team points,

it's all judgment calls and that's the breaks that go with it. i have been on all sides of this situation---participant,coach, official, parent of wrestler.

I would like to see a formal move for encouraging and mentoring young officals

Have to agree there were lots of inconsistencies with calls. And saw a few matches determined by the ref. Would like to see the video of Ruiz match so I could see why they said it was not an escape! No I would not ever want to be any type of ref for sporting events but there is a thing called consistency and I think that is all we fans and athletes asked for. If a wrestler knows you call out of bounds the moment they touch the circle they can adjust. If they know you call takes downs when they aren't down they can adjust. BE CONSISTENT!!!

All ref'n and umpiring is a judgement call. But lets not contiue to use judgement call as an alabi for bad judgement. Lets get referee certification clinics and train the refs. I assume all they currently have to do in Kansas is pass an open book rules test. My son is a /was a HS soccer ref and thats all he had to do for a state ticket---plus his assignor let him work only 9/10 and JV games games the first year.

We can talk about this for ever, Till we get some action don't expect any improvement.

Added thought. Would not want to see a couple of refs start a company to conduct clinics and certify referees and charge $100 to $250 to each trainee in the room. And them conduct clinics on multiple days in multiple locations. The costs to become a ref in many kiddie sports has become outrageous, plus the ref mafai has sold the notion that more refs are needed to call a game, match, etc. When and why three refs in a HS basketball game. I rember when colleges BB games only had 2 refs. Why the second ref in the finals of a wrestling tournament--mid season and state. Are BB refs getting lazy and can't run for four quarters. What purpose does the second wrestling ref fulfill. Why two linesmen and a field ref in HS soccer (two refs can call a soccer game and the sidelines at the same time).

I spent a lot of years coaching club sports--especially soccer. Plus my son played soccer from age four to age 21. In all those years and games I only saw two very bad calls that effected the final results. Saw a lot of questionable calls, but only those two very bad ones--both caused a loss in the regionals finals.

99% of time refs get it right and for thios we owe them our kudos. But that other 1 percent can cause havoc and leave a bad taste. And, we like to blame and yell at the refs--usually for no reason!!!

I really did not have many bad calls against my team this week-end. I never had to go to the table to argue a call one time. I had decided a long time ago to only argue on something I had a chance of changing. Other than that, complaining to them is pointless.

However, I was sitting in my chair and saw a very bad call in a match. I still decided not to argue as the ref in question has disliked me for a long time and I knew it would be nothing but trouble. So while sitting in my chair I said, "WOW". I then said to my assistant, "don't argue, we are not going to get that call from him as you know he does not like me". The referee then stopped the match, and took a team point from me for unsportsmanlike conduct. I will not name the referee personally but he knows who he is.

I hope someday this man will look in the mirror and realize that his ability to ref a match is not as good as he thinks and he might want to spend more time getting better and not listening to conversations in the corner... Probably 90% of the reason he misses the calls that he does.

yeah the refs didnt make that many bad calls but if one team was going to complain about the officiating it would have to be junction city...they had a lot of bad calls go against them this weekend

I am not commenting on anything in particular about this weekend, but felt it appropriate to add to this thread.

My thought has always been a wish that the officials would work for consistency in the calls as much as possible so the kids know what to expect. Understanding that there will always be a "human factor" and complete consistency is impossible, I believe that there are areas that the officials could work to improve.

My #1 request to the officials is consistency in calling pins. The description of a pin is very specific in the rulebook, yet I see a tremendous amount of variation here. From the "freestyle pinners" to the "your shoulders have to leave an impression in the mat" I think that this is an area for improvement.

This call does afterall ALWAYS determine the match.

To the officials: I do appreciate what you do, and can't possibly understand what it takes to stand in front of a few thousand fans and call a few hundred matches.

Can anyone point out examples? I have my own personal experiences, but i'd like to hear some of these.

Ghez, Church. Sad deal that you and your team have to put up with that BS. May it end soon.

A wrestler was in the process of getting turned to his back via a half nelson. The ref stopped the match. If he had not done that, 20 seconds later the pinner would have won by pin.

Takedowns on the edge. The 152 final for example (the last 2-3 seconds of that match). Sometimes those were called TD's - other times they were not.

The 215 pound match. The GD kid kind of did a single to a duck under and then spin around the other kid. The other kid quickly got back up to his feet -- THEN, they went out of bounds. No TD for GD. I thought that was wrong. Instead, both UP, no points. GD loses a match that I thought quite possibly could have went into OT, had the TD stood.

What constitutes control regarding a TD on/near the edge? Richard, cut and paste the applicable rules on this subject please. Thanks.

Did anyone see the match between Justus Seaton and Javier Vierya?

Yes! Junction City had ALOT of bad calls, One that my family will remember for the rest of our lives. Ruiz and Miller match at the very end of the third period. It looked like two dumb and dumber refs lost in the Intrust Bank arena. How does one ref give the final escape point to win the match and the other has no idea of it. Additionally Miller's injury time had ran out and the one ref actually called the match over, then calls it back again. More importantly the rules specify what to do when a kid has no more injury time!!! I know Isaac won that match and I know that it was taken away NOT BY MILLER, but by a VERY BAD CALL. I fully comprehend that the ref's are under extreme pressure to make the right calls, but when you are at STATE there is no room for a wrestlers mistake that alone a ref's.
Maria Ruiz

I seen alot of injury time where the clock never was started. A kid from heights was bleeding in two matches that I saw and the clock never even ran a few of the times or they would stop the clock while they still where working on getting the blood stopped. Longest two matches I have ever seen.

Two points here...
1. I am a big fan of the 215 pound class and I respect Caylor ALOT,
But the ref decided that match...
From the missed take down to the headbut out of bounds that I think should of cost Caylor a point...
That match was way closee then 7 to 1.
That match is easily a 3-3 match going into OT or even a 4-3 Victory for Hicks. Thats too bad!
2. The use of an inhaler needs to be addressed.
Ive never seen so many wrestler with asthma!
It is a free and easy TIMEOUT for a winded wrestler. I know of a few wrestlers that really need them but the perception is that people use them to catch a rest down the final streatch.
And that too is too bad!

I had not seen that too much, but i did see it occur. What to me was more of a problem was when a wrestler still had control of another and when he has lost it. If you let go of a leg and a split second later grab it, that is definitely an escape. I know the referees have a hard job, but there is too much variation from one to another.