Want to start this out by saying ref's are human and they do have to be strong in doing their job. My question I guess is what rules do we follow and when. Saw on kid from Ulysses lose a match 1-0 why because he walk to the table for a bloody nose. WHAT THE!!!!!!! Have not seen this called all season. Crybaby rule watched a kid earlier this season lose a match had a kid nearly pinned twice kid on bottom started crying other kid not awarded any points the kid NOT crying loses by 1 this weekend no warning kid lost a point. Shoe Laces kid lost a point even before the match started Hasn't been called all year in a tournament we have been to. Either call these things all year in every district or don't start calling them at state. To me it is like playing cards and the rules change in the middle. Doesn't seem fair!!!!

The shoe lace rule I've heard all the refs warning kids about the last two weeks, " that will cost you a point at state!" they said. All the other ones are a little over the top.

i also had two officials explain their calls "well at this level". let's come up with a communication system to make it the same all year. if tape, braces, stalling, cautions, take downs, out of bounds are going to be called different at state, we should all be told ahead of time. not the morning of, weeks/ months. personally i feel the rules are rules and should be enforced at every tournament, 6u/ novice/ subs/ district/ state. judgement calls are judgement call, the calls above are not, and should be enforced consistently state wide.

just my two cents/ i know it's only worth half that.

And for the table workers from Salina actually the time keeper and the guy going out to let the ref know the clock expire 14 seconds early and the Ref that had his head up his pants. Great job of robbing a kid from placing. 8 under 95. Thank you. Good thing i get from this is to teach a kid that things are not always fair and we will have to go back next year and fix this.

Table workers should be compentent or not be ont the table. I know these are volunteers but the kids and teenagers working the tables and texting while doing so should be booted off.

Dan Williams

I have a question for you guys, Does a Ref have to Wave his hands to award back points. I watched a semis match that was tied at 2. The end of the second period one kid tilts the other the ref stands straight up did not get down on the mat. The towl tapper taps him and he throws up two fingers with out even waving his hand!!!! 3th period the other kid stalled on bottom the whole time match ends 4 to 2. The short old ref with classes was getting questioned a bunch this weekend. He might think about hanging it up!!! He was my official a few times ten years ago, or just getting a new RX on those Glasses! He was working with Andy Hutchison on Mat 8. Andy did a great JOB!!!!

One min periods promote stalling and should be rid off.

I don't think that a ref has to count verbally or with a hand motion although most do to eliminate any controversy.

App Fan
I have never seen a ref do what they did at your sons match.
He was totally screwed and I know he is totally devastated but please don't let this break his spirit. He's too good of a wrestler for this sport to lose.
Usually a ref will award the action and adjust the clock. In this case the ref did not do that. I don't know why but please tell Garin it wasn't his fault or a lack of effort.

I loved the new mat side system and I think it was way better then having to wait for bout sheet and the wall brackets whereupdated way faster.
And I think that the tournament did a great job of trying to educate people before the event BUT when you add serious table worker mistakes on top of some expected bad refs that just equals a broken heart and spirit for some Kansas wrestlers.
Suggestions
Get the kids off the tables.
Maybe try to use this system a little more before state next year.
Find a way to rate the refs through out the season in order to get the very best ones there.
Don't tell me about the voting system. I already know. But there were refs there that were not on the list to be voted upon so unless there is some special cirrcumstance that was not made public...
It makes the whole process seem shady.

The shoe lace rule has been talked about by the refs the past two weeks in the coaches meeting in our district and we have passed info to parents about this as well as ask our wrestlers place tape in thier bags for this.
I have to agree that these items should be enforced from the start of the season in all classes.
This weekend is the first time I have seen kids awarded points for the other wrestler crying, I don't know if I have just misssed this in the past and was paying attention this weekend but I had to ask a coach what the point was for.

Thanks, He is over it and I will just have to get over it as well. some things suck and this is one of them. We will go to Brute and hopefully he takes some of this agression with him.

AS a table worker this weekend I would like to thank the refs on mat 10! All 3 called each match the same, and not one time did they say judgement, they explained the call and called it the same everytime. Yes all 3 called things a little differently but where not swayed by the fans, or coaches. Appfan sorry about the situation you had, it is unfortunate when a table worker, coach or ref changes the outcome of a match it should be decided on the mat by the kids!

-Sarah Hartley

App Fan

Rule 6-6-3.."When the timekeeper makes an error or the clock fails to start when the referee indicates time is to begin, the referee is to make a judgment concerning the amount of time that should have been consumed. The referee will adjust the clock accordingly."

So according to this any action that took place in the allowed time of the refs judgement should stand.
The ref and the head ref both blew this call.

The so called Cry Baby Rule is being used more and more.
Its actually an Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty.
If the kid is on his back screaming and yelling the ref stops the match on the side of safety he can actually award FOUR nearfall points if he thinks a fall was about to happen and the ONE point cry baby.
It can be a five point swing.

You mean Jim Beltch, the very same official that was awarded the District I official of the year this year, right before the finals? Geez, talk about a tough crowd.

Actually the official is to award an extra point if criteria has been met. If there was a two count when the wrestler gets hurt or cries out, the offensive wrestler is awarded three points. If a five count has been reached then the offensive wrestler is awarded four points. This rule has been in effect for over 10 years.

that match was unfortunate. but there was no control, and no one knows what would have happened. both wrestlers were on their hip, either could have gained or lost control. it wasn't a teenager texting, it was an adult tapping at that table. the thing to teach your kid is to take it out of the officials/ table workers hands.i know it's tough, but you don't want him to be "that" kid, who stomps and throws a fit. he handled the situation well, and you should be proud. the thing i didn't understand at that match is, when both coaches and the tapper agree 14 seconds, and neutral is the right decision to make, why does the head official need to be called to make the decision?

there was no control, no takedown in that match. the correct call was made. all coaches agreed, at the time of the match.

collegiate riding time would help more.

NO CONTROL??? I disagree!
Well I guess thats why they call it a judgement call!!

The coaches did not agree! They realized it was a losing battle and just tried to compromise and get as much time back on the clock as possible.
Either way the action should not of been stopped!

This same topic is discussed on the Ask Ref part of the HS fourm!

Two things about Kansas Officials:

1.) All officials have an obligation to go to the table if a coach calls you over THE RIGHT WAY (i.e. walks quietly to the table, raises his hand, and waits quietly). You cannot make an assumption about why the coach is calling you to the table. Statements like "You can't question my judgement," and "You better make sure you know what you're calling me to the table for." are arrogant, unprofessional, and have no place in our sport. This came from one of the other "Officials of Year" The Tournament Director witnessed this unprofessional conduct and still allowed this person to receive such an award. I was given two warnings for telling a ref that he was arrogant and that he didn't have to be a jerk about my calling him to the table the right way. Again, the tournament director watched this happen and stood by the officials conduct. Where does a coach go when he does it right and still gets the shaft?

2.) The out of bounds is a "guideline" it is not a rescue line for an official who doesn't want to make a tough call. All too often I have watched officials stop action that would result in scores simply because kids get close to out of bounds. Good officials stop the action, Great officials stand their ground wait to see what unfolds, then makes an intelligent decision.