This is a new topic continued from two other topics of the same subject.

Article in today's KC Star:

Kansas ready to address the private vs. public school issue
By CANDACE BUCKNER

The worst way to deal with an issue is to do nothing. Or better yet, only discuss it around the same people who look like us, think like us, live like us and avoid those who aren�t us. Ignoring a problem is about as productive as selling slingshots at a gun show.
So when an issue arises � and let�s all agree here that the frequent private-school dominance in high school sports is, in fact, an �issue� � the right thing would be to address it honestly and openly.
And, finally, after years of whispering and complaining and pretending that everything�s OK, the Board of Directors for the Kansas State High School Activities Association will meet to discuss the obvious.
A majority of people within the public-school systems believe that private schools hold an unfair advantage.
Next Friday in Topeka, the Board of Directors will hear two proposals � one coming from the locally based Frontier League representatives � that will seek to completely change Kansas postseason play as we know it. One proposal recommends that all 27 private or parochial schools in the state association be bumped up to the next highest classification. The Frontier League proposal, to be presented by league rep and De Soto principal David Morford, seeks to place the public and private schools in two separate playoff divisions.
This point is important � these proposals were not crafted to accuse private schools of any wrongdoing and punish them for it. This meeting is simply to say hello to the elephant in the room.
�Is there a problem? People think there�s a problem, but nobody has necessarily talked about the problem,� said Morford, who admits his league�s proposal probably won�t fly. �We�ve heard all kinds of comments about our proposal � both good and bad. The one thing we wanted to do was get everybody talking about it.�
Four years ago, when the daughter of Gardner Edgerton principal Tim Brady played on the volleyball team, the girls got hammered in the substate tournament by a powerful parochial school and she asked this question: �Dad, we�ll never get to state, will we?� �What do I tell my daughter?� Brady said. �Try harder? No matter how hard she and her teammates worked during the season or in the offseason � we would�ve gotten spanked by either of those private schools. They were better.�
Come on. We�ve all thought about it. Why is it that in the last 24 years, only three public-school 5A programs have won volleyball state titles? And how can private schools make up only 7 percent within the Kansas state association and yet win 70 percent of all Class 1A-5A boys� soccer state titles within the last 10 years?
These questions are not difficult to answer, at least in the minds of pubic-school advocates. Private schools have no �borders,� so the best athletes can find themselves at those programs.
A few years back, the state association formed a public-private school committee to look at these issues. They studied it, wrote up a nice report and what happened? Essentially, nothing.
And in this silence, opinions have grown more accusatory and defenses have been built up. These issues have festered and possibly led to the reasons why two Shawnee Mission soccer teams and one Olathe district team have dropped super-power St. Thomas Aquinas from their schedules.
�There�s a discontent, a backlash (and) I don�t think it�s good for high school sports,� Aquinas soccer coach Craig Ewing said. �That�s part of the climate. Some of the public schools are choosing not to play the Catholic schools, and I wish it wasn�t that way.�
So, let�s talk about it. The issue isn�t going away. Private schools are just playing by the rules, but public schools want to change those rules.
Next week at the board meeting, there will be no votes on the matter � just discussion.
That�s a good start.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/04/15/1880559/kansas-is-ready-to-address-the.html#ixzz0lGD96ckT

I just got done reading it in the newspaper this morning. The problem I have with the article is that it is completely a one sided presentation.

That statistic about the 70 percent of the combined 1A-5A boy's state soccer in the last ten years fits right into the good coaching point that I have been making. Craig Ewing who is quoted in the article is probably the coach of all seven of those wins, certainly almost all of them if not all of them. I would not have had a problem with her mentioning it if she would have also said something like: Of course private schools would point out that all those titles were earned by one school St. Thomas Aquinas that has a great coach who has built a great program similiar to the Hutchinson football team in recent years under the leadership of Randy Dreiling whose teams have won in the last six years 100% of the 6A and 5A teams state titles that they have participated in. Private school advocates would say that examples can be given of sporst dynasties in both the public and private schools that skew these state titles comparison and in truth are a product of great coaching that has built great programs. Private schools would say that there are a lot of smaller private school teams like the Bishop Ward girls soccer team that just got beat this week 10-0 by Lansing High School whose daughters could also say: "Daddy, am I ever going to make it to State." Dad will have to say: "Actually the state is trying to make it harder for you to make it to State since they want to throw us into a higher classification.'

Let's give both sides of the story, Candace!

the most successful sports program in ks state history is smith center, football, are they private? no, same coach, same hard working kids.

keep in mind higher classification doesn't always mean tougher competition. i think the private schools will do just fine, no matter what kshaa decides.

i think good programs, are good programs, no matter what.

From Bigpin 22--Here is a link to the Pittsburg, Ks Morning Sun Newspaper article on this subect:

http://www.morningsun.net/featured/x57950696/Class-Warfarre

Also copied to herefor the computer challanged readers:

By KEVIN FLAHERTY
The Morning Sun
Posted Apr 15, 2010

PITTSBURG � Ask a St. Mary�s Colgan coach or administrator whether the school is private, and the result is a resounding �no.�

�We�re not a private school,� said Chuck Smith, long-time Colgan football coach. �We�re a school that is open for any Catholic who wants to come.�

�We like to think of ourselves as an off-the-offering-plate school,� said Kyle Wolf, Colgan activities director. �We run on the donations and generosity of our parish.�

Colgan isn�t exclusively Catholic � Wolf said that between 95-98 percent of the students followed the religion � but is largely so, and so St. Mary�s Colgan High School is designated within the state as a private school.

And, at a meeting later this month, the Kansas State High School Activities Association board of directors will discuss how Colgan will compete in sports in the future. Currently, two proposals sit before the board of directors, one that would put Colgan into an all-private school division for the playoffs and one that would move the Panthers up a class.

The discussion is hardly a new one. But private schools� recent success has made the as relevant as ever. Private schools account for just seven percent of the state�s high schools, but have won 32 percent of the state championships so far this year.

Wichita Collegiate, a 3A private school, has been the main offender, capturing four state titles, including the championships in both football and boys� basketball.

Colgan, which boasts a three-grade enrollment of 108 students, has a high level of success as a Class 2A school.

�If you�re just talking about Colgan, and not the other private schools, I don�t think they�re a typical 2A school,� said Bryan Burdette, Southeast football coach. �Most 2A schools don�t pull their students from a city the size of Pittsburg.�

Proposal one
The first proposal � deemed more likely by Colgan officials and coaches � would move every private school up a classification in all sports. Under that arrangement, Colgan would move from 2A to 3A. Colgan football coach Chuck Smith said he didn�t think that leap would be too large, especially since the Panthers have played in a Crawford-Neosho-Cherokee League filled with 3A teams.

�I think we would be just fine in 3A,� Smith said. �We play a lot of really good 3A teams like Riverton, Galena and Frontenac on a regular basis now.�

The Panthers are on the high end of 2A, and would move up a classification against schools with three-grade enrollments between 120 and 198.

Smith went on to say that when the Panthers rattled off four consecutive football state championships from 2000-2003, they likely would have competed for similar honors at the 3A level.

�We had several players who were All-Americans here (at Pittsburg State),� Smith said. �Those kids could have played with anybody.�

Northeast athletic director and baseball coach Jason Clemensen said the same applied to the dominant Colgan baseball team, which has won nine consecutive titles.

�Colgan�s baseball team, right now, is probably the best baseball team in the state from classes 1A through 4A,� Clemensen said. �They would be just as competitive there as they are now.�

Burdette added that he didn�t think the change would matter until further into the playoffs.

�They�re going to continue to do well locally,� Burdette said. �And they can play at the 3A level. They�ve already proven that.�

But not all private schools would transition as easily. Wichita-Trinity Academy is among the state�s smaller 4A schools with an enrollment of 242 students. Under the proposal, Trinity would move up to 5A, where it would be forced to compete with perennial power Hutchinson, a school that boasts close to four times Trinity�s enrollment.

�There are some private schools that would be hurt by that,� Wolf said. �But the bottom line is that any way you draw it up, you�re going to have some good teams, and some that aren�t as good.�

Proposal two
Colgan could find itself in that category should the second proposal be the one to go through. That one would take all 26 private schools and place them in their own private school division for the playoffs. The proposal would also divide Class 4A into two divisions in an attempt to increase competition.

The all-private division is less likely, if for no other reason than the small number, and varying size, of Kansas�s public schools. Texas and Tennessee both have an all-private division, though each have close to 300 private schools.

If the second proposal went through, Colgan could find itself facing up with schools like Topeka-Hayden (404 students), St. Thomas Aquinas (785) and Bishop Miege (554). Miege, the middle of the three schools, has produced a handful of Division 1A athletes in different sports this year.

�I�m not sure how you would be able to pull that one off,� Wolf said. �You would be putting schools our size in with schools the size of Bishop Miege or Bishop Carroll. I just don�t know how that would be feasible.�

�I don�t think that will happen,� Smith added.
Colgan�s opponents agree.

�That wouldn�t be right for the smaller schools,� Burdette said. �There�s too big of a gap there.�

What now?
Clemensen understands the need to level out competition. Once this year is over, Northeast will move on to the Three Rivers League in an attempt to get away from the stacked CNC.

�It wasn�t so much just Colgan. It was the whole league, really,� Clemensen said. �You have Frontenac growing, and they will probably be a 4A before too long. Girard already is 4A.
�The competitive level of that whole league,� Clemensen said, �is not where we need to be.�

The decision, and the ramifications, could be a while coming. Most doubt that the KSHSAA will make a decision at the April board of director�s meeting. Even if they did make a decision, board members would have to agree put it on the September meeting agenda. Then, the item would need a majority of schools in all classes to approve it.

�Even if they do approve it, it would take at least two years to get here because they�ve already done the classifications for the next two years,� Smith said. �That�s if they don�t have any other problems.�

Still, Clemensen said he admired the board for opening dialogue on the issue.

�If you look at every state, it�s talked about in every state,� Clemensen said. �I think it should be talked about here.

�Should any changes happen? I don�t know,� Clemensen said. �But there�s nothing wrong with gathering all the facts before deciding the right way to go.�

Kevin Flaherty can be reached at kevin.flaherty@morningsun.net or by calling 231-2600 Ext. 134

Anyone know of other local newspaper articles across the state on this subect? Would be interesting to read to try to get the state wide perspective on the subject.

If you know of any articles, put a link to them in this forum. Or send me the link and I will put it on here.

CJonline has one from the Hayden point of view.

Here is the 26 March Topeka CJ Article.

Note: this may be a reprint of a Wichita article

Updated March 26, 2010

WICHITA � A survey of Kansas high school administrators by the state's governing body for high school sports found that many think private schools have an unfair advantage over public schools.

So the Kansas State High School Activities Association's board of directors will consider two proposals next month that would either make private schools compete by themselves in postseason play or make them compete at a higher enrollment level.

No immediate changes are likely, but proponents of the changes say the discussion is important. Either change would radically alter the structure of the KSHSAA's current classification system.

"This would be one of the most significant deviations from the way we've done business in the past," said Bill Faflick, athletic director for the City League, which is Wichita's seven public high schools that have athletics plus parochial schools Carroll and Kapaun.

Of the two proposals, the one seemingly more popular would move private schools up one classification. Carroll, with 819 students in grades 10-12 this year, and Kapaun, with 667, would move from Class 5A to 6A, where the smallest school this year has 1,066 students.

A private school such as Wichita Trinity, a small Class 4A school, would move up to 5A.

"We have only about 300 students, and now we're competing against schools that have 900?" said Trinity headmaster/principal Matt Brewer. "We can't play football against Hutchinson. We'd be putting kids at risk."

Clay Center principal Mike Adams, a board of directors member who helped draft the proposal, said it would equalize schools, especially because private schools aren't limited to the same boundaries as public schools.

"We have to take the kids that walk through our doors," Adams said.

In Classes 4A, 3A and 2A, the public schools are rural while the private schools come from urban areas. Trinity is part of the Central Plains League with the Independent School and eight rural schools.

The second proposal is more dramatic with seemingly less chance of passing. It puts the state's 26 private schools into their own playoff structure in all sports. It also divides Class 4A into two divisions, essentially creating 11 postseason classes for football and eight for all other sports.

States such as Texas and Tennessee have separate public and private state championships, but each has around 300 private schools.

"I think it would be unfair to put the 26 schools together and have us supposedly play Berean Academy," Carroll president Tish Nielsen said. Berean Academy, in Elbing, is a 2A school with 103 students in its three upper grades.

But many public schools don't think it's fair to compete against private schools.

"I think it's become more of an issue in the past 10 years," said Campus principal Myron Regier, who is on the KSHSAA board of directors.

Possible explanations include increased emphasis on high school athletics, earning college scholarships and winning state championships.

Private schools, which make up 7 percent of the association's member schools, are successful at tournament time. In the current school year, Wichita Collegiate has won Class 3A titles in football, volleyball, girls tennis and boys basketball.

At the Class 5A girls basketball tournament, three of the final four teams were private schools, and the boys 5A title was won by Miege, in Roeland Park.

Private schools counter that plenty of public schools have similar traditions. Wichita Heights became the first school in the state's largest classification to play for a title in football and boys and girls basketball, and Hutchinson has won six straight football titles.

"Of everything completed so far (this school year), privates have won almost 32 percent of all championships, and many public schools feel that private schools have an advantage," Adams said.

In 2006, the KSHSAA created a committee that studied the private-public issue. The main finding was that private schools "earn a disproportionate percentage of postseason final eight, final four and championship game opportunities when compared to public schools."

"A lot of people thought we stopped short � 'You need to go ahead and do something about it,' " KSHSAA executive director Gary Musselman said.

Yet the focus on state championships concerns some.

"If that's how programs are being evaluated, they're missing the mark," Faflick said. "(Sports is) for connecting kids to school, teaching life lessons, teaching teamwork, discipline. All are evident if they win or lose at the end of the year."

Gardner-Edgerton principal Tim Brady, part of the proposal to split private schools from championships, is frustrated watching private schools dominate. He links that dominance to recruiting.

Allegations of recruiting and private schools giving athletic scholarships to entice top athletes often crop up. But Musselman said he has found no evidence of recruiting in his 22 years on the job.

Carroll's Nielsen is distressed at the questions of recruiting.

"I don't want them to question our integrity," she said. "I want them to know we're following the rules and guidelines."

Long road to change

It is doubtful that April's board of directors meeting will be more than a discussion. If the board of directors votes to agree to either of the proposals � or comes up with its own proposal � there still are hurdles.

A majority of the board would have to vote to put it on the agenda for its next meeting in September, and a majority of all schools in all classes must approve it.

Discussion is fine with DeSoto principal David Morford, who was part of the proposal for splitting public and private championships.

"It's getting talked about," he said. "That's our goal.

"We don't necessarily have the right answer, but we want to have the dialogue with everybody to have a solution that's workable to everybody."

Here is the one which I was referring to.....

http://cjonline.com/sports/baseball/2010-04-03/hayden_change_unnecessary

By Rick Peterson
Created April 3, 2010 at 6:00pm

Updated April 3, 2010 at 11:18pm
Hayden president Rick Strecker considers the school the same as the other 355 high schools across the state.

Strecker can only hope the Kansas State High School Activities Association's board of directors feels the same way later this month after discussing two proposals that would affect the state's 26 private schools.

The board of directors will study one proposal that would bump private schools up a classification level � in Hayden's case, from Class 4A to 5A. The second proposal, scheduled to be discussed April 23-24, would put all private schools in their own classification for the postseason.

While saying Hayden will deal with whatever decision the KSHSAA might make in the future, Strecker and athletic director Bobby Taul said they don't feel like a drastic change is needed.

"I just hope that folks can perceive that our school doesn't do things differently than probably most every school in the state of Kansas," Strecker said. "At Hayden High School, we're successful in the things that we do well basically for the same reasons that other schools are successful more often than not � great sense of community and parent support, we have traditions and our kids have a good work ethic.

"You see good work ethic and you see good coaching, you see good parent support at public and nonpublic schools. We feel like we're a part of that as far as athletics go and our other activities that we support. Certainly our success doesn't just come from basketball or football, but Scholars Bowl or whatever kind of things we're involved with. I think we're helped by our (Catholic) mission, which is a little bit different, but I think we're successful for a lot of the same reasons that other people are successful for."

Taul, who has worked at both private and public high schools, agreed.

"I started in a public school, came here, went to a public school, came back, and to me, I didn't see any difference," Taul said. "The kids I had in public school, we had tradition, we had success, we had stability in the coaching staff, and the kids were hard workers.

"When you come back here, you see the very same thing. When I left here and went down to Baldwin, I didn't see any difference as far as the schools themselves. There's just the fact that, here at Hayden, we can (teach) religion, and down at Baldwin, you're not supposed to do it."

While it may be perceived by some that private/parochial schools have an unfair advantage, Strecker said Hayden faces the same challenges as its public school counterparts, particularly in tough economic times.

"Absolutely, and probably more so, because a lot of our financial resources here at the high school are due to gifts from our parishes and support from our parishes, and they're dependent on people being supportive at the parish," he said. "And while folks don't have much choice about whether to pay taxes, they do have a choice in their giving. And although we have certainly continued to see great support from our families, sometimes when push comes to shove, the giving that a family is able to do or the support they're able to provide to either their church or their school is one thing they have to make a decision about."

Hayden and other private schools have been accused for decades of recruiting, which may be a driving force for the two proposals in front of the KSHSAA.

Strecker admits Hayden does try to attract students but said the school is above board about the methods it uses.

"We make it clear to all of our grade school students and any student and their families that express interest that we'd like to have them come to Hayden High School," he said. "We have brochures that talk about our successes in the classroom, our successes in our activities. But, you know, I see the same kind of brochures when I visit the public schools. They're looking for students to be engaged in their high schools also.

"We do go out and market in order to have an enrollment base at our high school, but, for goodness sake, we try to make sure we market to every single student and their family the mission-driven advantages of going to Hayden High School. We don't have bad schools in the area. We have great schools in the area. People come to Hayden because of what we have that other people, by mission, aren't able to provide."

Strecker said the vast majority of Hayden students have grown up attending Catholic schools.

"Folks come because of their family interest in the Catholic faith, and they come possibly because they've had generations of students who've come here," he said. "My children are here and they're fourth-generation Hayden Wildcats, and I'm not unique in that. There are dozens of families that are in the same boat.

"By far the largest majority of our students have been in our Catholic school system in Topeka in kindergarten through 12th grade. I suppose that's also true in a lot of public school environments. "

Topeka West athletic director Charlie Nimz, a 1996 Hayden graduate, has heard � and still hears � accusations that Hayden recruits. He's never seen it.

"My football team was one of the better ones to go through Hayden to date," Nimz said, "and my numbers might be wrong, but either 18 out of the 19 (seniors) or either 19 out of the 20 of us all grew up going to Catholic schools together.

"That was our natural choice. It wasn't because coach (Tom) Stringer recruited us to come over and play football for him. Obviously being more closely connected with it right now, I don't see that Hayden is out recruiting our players away or anything."

Strecker admitted students sometimes do come to Hayden from other schools and communities, but said it's usually for a variety of reasons.

"When people move in from out of town, they try to find the match that meets their children's and their family's mission or goals as well as possible," he said.

And while Hayden and other private schools have been successful in athletics, Strecker said people sometimes overlook the lean times the school has experienced.

"I think people focus on state championships, but they forget that in each one of our state-championship programs that have won a championship one year or another, we've had seasons that were 2-19 or 1-8 or something like that," he said. "Everything goes in cycles, and we certainly experience that here at Hayden."

As the smallest school in the Centennial League, Hayden already plays a major portion of its schedule against 5A and 6A competition. If the Wildcats were bumped up to 5A Strecker said the school would continue to be competitive.

"Hayden wouldn't roll over if we were to play in a higher class, and sometimes we've kind of been on the border of doing that anyway in our history," Strecker said. "Now we're kind of in the middle of 4A and we enjoy playing the schools and enjoy the camaraderie of going to a cross country meet, a track meet or playing in the sub-state tournament with people that we don't get to see all the time. It's kind of a blessing for us that we do get to see a wide range of schools."

Both Taul and Strecker said they would hate to see the state's private schools put in a separate division for postseason.

"I think Kansas is different than a lot of states that have elected to separate," Strecker said. "They may even have hundreds of private schools, and sometimes the private schools have pushed in that direction. Kansas, with 20-some nonpublic schools in the state, it would be really difficult for us."

Private schools in Kansas range from 5A schools to 1A Tipton, which has just 19 students in its top three grades.

"For some of our largest nonpublic schools to compete against some of our smallest schools wouldn't be a very competitive situation," Strecker said.

Said Taul: "We've got a lot of great rivalries throughout the state of Kansas, and we've developed those rivalries over the years, and a lot of the only times we see those people is in state competition."

For Strecker, it all goes back to being just another high school.

"We're a part of the state of Kansas and all the high schools that are members of the Activities Association, and we enjoy that," he said. "We enjoy visiting other communities, and we're just hopeful that we have a continued opportunity for our kids to compete against all the other kids in the state of Kansas."

Another CJ article.

Hayden: Change unnecessary

School says it doesn't operate much differently than public schools

April 3, 2010

Hayden president Rick Strecker considers the school the same as the other 355 high schools across the state.

Strecker can only hope the Kansas State High School Activities Association's board of directors feels the same way later this month after discussing two proposals that would affect the state's 26 private schools.

The board of directors will study one proposal that would bump private schools up a classification level � in Hayden's case, from Class 4A to 5A. The second proposal, scheduled to be discussed April 23-24, would put all private schools in their own classification for the postseason.

While saying Hayden will deal with whatever decision the KSHSAA might make in the future, Strecker and athletic director Bobby Taul said they don't feel like a drastic change is needed.

"I just hope that folks can perceive that our school doesn't do things differently than probably most every school in the state of Kansas," Strecker said. "At Hayden High School, we're successful in the things that we do well basically for the same reasons that other schools are successful more often than not � great sense of community and parent support, we have traditions and our kids have a good work ethic.

"You see good work ethic and you see good coaching, you see good parent support at public and nonpublic schools. We feel like we're a part of that as far as athletics go and our other activities that we support. Certainly our success doesn't just come from basketball or football, but Scholars Bowl or whatever kind of things we're involved with. I think we're helped by our (Catholic) mission, which is a little bit different, but I think we're successful for a lot of the same reasons that other people are successful for."

Taul, who has worked at both private and public high schools, agreed.

"I started in a public school, came here, went to a public school, came back, and to me, I didn't see any difference," Taul said. "The kids I had in public school, we had tradition, we had success, we had stability in the coaching staff, and the kids were hard workers.

"When you come back here, you see the very same thing. When I left here and went down to Baldwin, I didn't see any difference as far as the schools themselves. There's just the fact that, here at Hayden, we can (teach) religion, and down at Baldwin, you're not supposed to do it."

While it may be perceived by some that private/parochial schools have an unfair advantage, Strecker said Hayden faces the same challenges as its public school counterparts, particularly in tough economic times.

"Absolutely, and probably more so, because a lot of our financial resources here at the high school are due to gifts from our parishes and support from our parishes, and they're dependent on people being supportive at the parish," he said. "And while folks don't have much choice about whether to pay taxes, they do have a choice in their giving. And although we have certainly continued to see great support from our families, sometimes when push comes to shove, the giving that a family is able to do or the support they're able to provide to either their church or their school is one thing they have to make a decision about."

Hayden and other private schools have been accused for decades of recruiting, which may be a driving force for the two proposals in front of the KSHSAA.

Strecker admits Hayden does try to attract students but said the school is above board about the methods it uses.

"We make it clear to all of our grade school students and any student and their families that express interest that we'd like to have them come to Hayden High School," he said. "We have brochures that talk about our successes in the classroom, our successes in our activities. But, you know, I see the same kind of brochures when I visit the public schools. They're looking for students to be engaged in their high schools also.

"We do go out and market in order to have an enrollment base at our high school, but, for goodness sake, we try to make sure we market to every single student and their family the mission-driven advantages of going to Hayden High School. We don't have bad schools in the area. We have great schools in the area. People come to Hayden because of what we have that other people, by mission, aren't able to provide."

Strecker said the vast majority of Hayden students have grown up attending Catholic schools.

"Folks come because of their family interest in the Catholic faith, and they come possibly because they've had generations of students who've come here," he said. "My children are here and they're fourth-generation Hayden Wildcats, and I'm not unique in that. There are dozens of families that are in the same boat.

"By far the largest majority of our students have been in our Catholic school system in Topeka in kindergarten through 12th grade. I suppose that's also true in a lot of public school environments. "

Topeka West athletic director Charlie Nimz, a 1996 Hayden graduate, has heard � and still hears � accusations that Hayden recruits. He's never seen it.

"My football team was one of the better ones to go through Hayden to date," Nimz said, "and my numbers might be wrong, but either 18 out of the 19 (seniors) or either 19 out of the 20 of us all grew up going to Catholic schools together.

"That was our natural choice. It wasn't because coach (Tom) Stringer recruited us to come over and play football for him. Obviously being more closely connected with it right now, I don't see that Hayden is out recruiting our players away or anything."

Strecker admitted students sometimes do come to Hayden from other schools and communities, but said it's usually for a variety of reasons.

"When people move in from out of town, they try to find the match that meets their children's and their family's mission or goals as well as possible," he said.

And while Hayden and other private schools have been successful in athletics, Strecker said people sometimes overlook the lean times the school has experienced.

"I think people focus on state championships, but they forget that in each one of our state-championship programs that have won a championship one year or another, we've had seasons that were 2-19 or 1-8 or something like that," he said. "Everything goes in cycles, and we certainly experience that here at Hayden."

As the smallest school in the Centennial League, Hayden already plays a major portion of its schedule against 5A and 6A competition. If the Wildcats were bumped up to 5A Strecker said the school would continue to be competitive.

"Hayden wouldn't roll over if we were to play in a higher class, and sometimes we've kind of been on the border of doing that anyway in our history," Strecker said. "Now we're kind of in the middle of 4A and we enjoy playing the schools and enjoy the camaraderie of going to a cross country meet, a track meet or playing in the sub-state tournament with people that we don't get to see all the time. It's kind of a blessing for us that we do get to see a wide range of schools."

Both Taul and Strecker said they would hate to see the state's private schools put in a separate division for postseason.

"I think Kansas is different than a lot of states that have elected to separate," Strecker said. "They may even have hundreds of private schools, and sometimes the private schools have pushed in that direction. Kansas, with 20-some nonpublic schools in the state, it would be really difficult for us."

Private schools in Kansas range from 5A schools to 1A Tipton, which has just 19 students in its top three grades.

"For some of our largest nonpublic schools to compete against some of our smallest schools wouldn't be a very competitive situation," Strecker said.

Said Taul: "We've got a lot of great rivalries throughout the state of Kansas, and we've developed those rivalries over the years, and a lot of the only times we see those people is in state competition."

For Strecker, it all goes back to being just another high school.

"We're a part of the state of Kansas and all the high schools that are members of the Activities Association, and we enjoy that," he said. "We enjoy visiting other communities, and we're just hopeful that we have a continued opportunity for our kids to compete against all the other kids in the state of Kansas."

Where are the small town perspectives. The three previous article presented almost exclusively a private school view: Colgan, Carrol, and Hayden.

Are there no small town newspapers: Ottawa, Salina, Marysville, Eudora, Gardener Edgerton, Concordia, Hays, Clay Center, Abilene, etc. etc. Some of thes towns either have private schools, or they compete with private schools in athletics.

On second thought there might not be any small town papers with a sports staff: reduced subscribers, competion from web based news, etc. Leavenworth Times has gone from a 7 day decent paper to 5 days, with maybe 6 to 8 pages, pages about double the size of a paper napkin, limited local news, limited 2 or 3 day old wire service national news, some local sports, lots of advertizing.

I believe most newspapers are heading down the road of "unusefulness", as most people, myself included, get sick of the mostly one sided stories that they print, usually straight from AP, or one of the other liberal "journalism" outlets.
I can go online and find ALL views.

When will the Royals make the playoffs next?

Smokey...that's enough about the Royals...you trying to p**s me off or what?

Doug...I like the way you think about things!

WICHITA EAGLE ARTICLE 18 April 2010

Fairness in athletic competition between public and private schools has been talked about for years in Kansas high school circles. Two proposals last month seeking to make private schools compete in higher or separate classifications were warning flares to the rest of the state.

The board of directors for the Kansas State High School Activities Association, the state's governing body for high school sports, will meet in Topeka late this week to talk about � but probably not act on � the ideas.

The association's executive board, meanwhile, has already investigated a third option � multiplying private school's enrollment by a pre-determined figure to determine classifications.

Change may be years down the road, but the talk is getting serious.

"Our intent is to get the discussion going on how do we resolve the issue that a lot of members have with the perception, right or wrong, that private schools have an advantage," said Clay Center principal Mike Adams, a board of directors member who helped draft one proposal to move the 26 private schools up a class. Another is splitting private schools into their own postseason division.

The multiplier system

In March, executive director Kerwin Urhahn of the Missouri State High School Activities Association talked to the KSHSAA's executive board about the private-public school issue.

"We recognized that we have people that have gone through the process before in a neighboring state," said Bill Faflick, the City League director and executive board member. "We wanted him to come in and share some of his insights as to what they did."

Urhahn spoke for more than an hour and offered some of the hurdles Missouri faced, as well as school response after the 1.35 multiplier was put in place.

"I think there could be some legitimacy to the multiplier," said DeSoto principal David Morford, who is on the executive board and helped write the proposal to split private schools into their own classification.

Bishop Carroll athletic director Larry Dostert doesn't want to see change to the current system but sees the multiplier as a better option.

"If it was forced on us, the multiplier I could live with. I think we can compete at the 6A level," Dostert said. "I think it would be extremely unfair to eliminate us from postseason with the public schools."

Missouri adopted the 1.35 multiplier in 2002 primarily because many public schools felt they weren't on an even playing field with private schools. In the previous 10 years before the multiplier, private schools won 33.2 percent of 581 titles. Private schools make up 12 percent of the association's membership.

"What it did was (it) shifted non-public schools into larger classes," Urhahn said.

For large private schools such as Christian Brothers College High outside St. Louis, little has changed. But for Helias High in Jefferson City, change has been drastic.

"We had 32 state championships (in multiple sports) through the 1980s and '90s," said Chris Hentges, Helias' football coach. "We had more than any team in the state. When the multiplier came in the early 2000s, we've only won one state championship. There's no school that has been affected the way that we have."

The multiplier frustrates Helias president Didier Aur, especially because in baseball, softball and volleyball, Helias plays against schools three times its size.

"It's something that's unfair," Aur said."... Have we accepted it? Grudgingly, yes. There's absolutely nothing we can do about it."

Under this year's enrollment figures, a 1.35 multiplier in Kansas would move Carroll from Class 5A to 6A and Collegiate and Independent from 3A to 4A, but Kapaun Mount Carmel would remain in 5A and Wichita Trinity would remain in 4A.

A good option?

Not all think the multiplier is the answer, including Douglass athletic director Scott Dunham, who prefers separate classes for private schools.

"I think there are impacts and effects with it that I don't know that we could see immediately," Dunham said. "I think with the multiplier some of the issues and concerns that they have in terms of fairness and equity might still be there."

The multiplier system doesn't necessarily do everything its proponents hope for.

A multiplier system didn't change the number of private-school champions in Missouri. Private schools won 33.2 percent of the state titles in the five years before the multiplier was enacted, 33 percent in the five years after.

Since the change, the issues between private and public schools have lessened, Urhahn said. He's been told by a committee made up of members of private and public schools that the issue isn't really discussed anymore.

"It's what I call a cosmetic fix," said Ralph Swearngin, executive director of the Georgia High School Association, about a multiplier system. "A lot of people like that something has been done, but when you analyze, you realize there's not much substance there."

That was true in Georgia. Georgia went to a multiplier system in 2000, but dropped it before the 2006-07 school year because the same schools continued to win.

Faflick, who oversees a league with seven public schools and two parochial high schools in the City League, thinks all KSHSAA schools should be treated the same. He said a multiplier doesn't address all factors.

"Do you put in a multiplier for programs where the coaches have had longevity for more than 10 years? Do you put in a multiplier for schools that have no parent participation?" Faflick said. "Private and public is just one factor. Do you put in a multiplier for urban vs. rural? I don't know why that one issue is one that's being identified. I think it's much more complex than just public/private.... All of those things impact winning championships."

Headed for court?

If the KSHSAA and its member schools vote to change the bylaws regarding private schools, the association could face a lawsuit. The Missouri and Illinois associations were sued shortly after going to a multiplier.

Missouri's 1.35 multiplier was initially arbitrary, but the MSHSAA won its case because it found that 35 percent of students in public schools didn't participate in extracurricular activities. Private schools typically are near 100-percent participation because schools insist on it.

Thirty-nine private schools immediately sued the Illinois High School Association in 2005 when a 1.65 multiplier was enacted by its board of directors. The association asked member schools to approve it, which they did by a 5-1 margin.

Gary Musselman, the KSHSAA's executive director, said fear of a lawsuit regarding private school classification won't halt possible change.

"The guiding thought has to be doing the right thing and what the majority of the membership supports, whatever that might do," Musselman said. "If lawsuits arise then you have to deal with them. Nobody wants to be spending time and money on lawsuits when you can be spending them on programs that you're conducting for your students."



Read more: http://www.kansas.com/2010/04/18/1273988/public-private-dilemma-a-common.html#ixzz0lUCygvzu

My prediction of that happening, is not anytime soon. For the Royals faithful who are down on their luck, it is never too late to become a Cardinals fan:)

since private school can recuit they should have there own league like they do in other states

KSHSAA debates private-public classifications
By Chris Elliott/The Wichita Eagle

Published today at 1:53 a.m. | Last updated today at 1:57 a.m.

High schools look at athletics for cuts
Public-private classification dilemma a common issue among high school associations
PDF: View a chart of proposed High School classification changes
Private school teams may face tougher competition
TOPEKA � Board of directors members who spoke at Friday's meeting at the Kansas State High School Activities Association seemed to agree that something needs to be done to alter the playing field between private and public schools, but pointed out the two proposals before them weren't the answer.

No decisions were made on the proposals that would have either split Kansas private schools into a separate postseason division or move those schools up into the next-largest classification. They won't be addressed in the continuation of today's meeting.

City League athletic director Bill Faflick said after the meeting that even though members knew an immediate answer would not be found, there was still plenty of emotion surrounding the topic.

"There was a lot of passion that something needs to happen," Faflick said. "It was also coupled with the frustration of not knowing what to do. There are no easy answers, because if they were they would have been decided years ago."

Representatives from Kapaun Mount Carmel and Bishop Carroll were present to address members of the board, each defending the perceptions that private schools have advantages over public schools.

Donald Clark, a representative from DeSoto High, asked Carroll athletic director Larry Dostert and Kapaun president Mike Burrus to provide the board with alternative solutions.

"I would challenge the non-public institutions to bring back to this board a proposal," Clark said. "One that takes the form of your institutions taking a leadership role in bringing a positive change, a positive alternative to some of the proposals we've come up with."

KSHSAA executive director Gary Musselman said that he viewed the meeting as a key step in the process of finding a solution.

"This is important. All of these boys and girls matter," Musselman said. "Whatever kind of school that they go to, they are the most important reason that we're here. So we needed to meet and consider the consequences and unintended consequences of whether we leave what's in place alone or make a change. It's really important."

Check Chris Elliott's high school sports blog at blogs.varsitykansas.com. Reach him at 316-268-6296 or celliott@wichitaeagle.com.

What really bothers me is that Don Clark and Dave Moreford,two DeSoto school district representatives seem to be two of the most outspoken opponents of private school participation. The DeSoto school district benefits greatly by having the tax dollars from residents who elect to send their kids to private schools instead of theirs. Is school about academics or winning state championships? I would think the opponents would be those who have a captive community of students (those with no private school options) who can't win. If DeSoto thinks they are missing out on quality athletes then they should put a better product out there instead of having a school board member and principal whine to the news media.

I will say it again. If they want those with kids in private schools out then give us our tax dollars back!

When I taught in Kansas two years ago the schools were paid by the student from the state. Student counts were made each Sept around the 20th and state aide was determined from that count. Having a student attend a private school took away at that time about 4200 per student for small districts away from the district the student left. The amount did vary according to school size. Property taxes still are paid, but each school gathered funds based on student numbers.

If school districts are trying to increase enrollment it is called aggressive economic development. Create private new jobs and private new investment in the communities. More businesses, more jobs, more roof tops, larger tax base. Government jobs are OK but private sector investment is better because of the spin off/multiplier effect and the need for other supporting industries and jobs. I thought I just saw a TV news program on Dodge City, KS - unemployment was very low, new investment was happening throughout the community and they are full steam ahead
right through this recession.