i agree with badass 5A is CAKE!!!

If 5A is cake, then Paola should be ranked higher than 10th, cuz Paola has been beating some good teams in other classifications.

paola has been the frontier league champs last 3 years at least, and there are some tough team in the league, includin baldwin, spring hill, wellsville, and prairie view. im sure they are usually dual champs as well.

being that I know about paola and the way their league is, I wouldnt say that 5A is cake, yes it is easier from a point that we see it. That there are only half as many teams to compete from, but the way I see it after you get through the first couple rounds everything is pretty even.

I have a question for you, even though wellsville is ranked 3rd as a team, there is no way they will compete with a team like Paola till state, when most teams are down to a level that they have a chance to compete with.

When does Paola wrestle Baldwin this year, that should be a heck of a dual. Coach harris has done a great job with his kids at Baldwin.

Guys dont go kidding yourself. Put any 5A school against Hoxie. Where do they stand now. Ok stop crying now you see where I am coming from.

Eudora will host Baldwin and Paola on February 13th.

Like I said before, Payne is better than Steinmetz. I hope they meet up at state again, so Payne can beat him there, too.

123a is weak explain how i stuck the top 4 189 lb. and i'm ranked 6th in 6a that must say something about the competition level. 4a,5a and 6a are tough

or it could just mean u got lucky or that 189 is not a strong weight in 321A, overall I think all the weight classes are about even.

a grand state would answer all these questions.

stalling sob yu ust recognize that 89 is not a strng weight class at all in 3-2-1A try sending one of your guys into 112 125 or 145 at the Hays state tournament and watch them get ripped apart

ID SEND 112 DUSTY BRIGGS
125- TYLER MCCORMICK
145 NEIL ERISMAN
AND WELL NEITHER ONE OF THEM WOULD GET RIPPED

Hoxie's 112 pound freshman, Michael Schamberger, has already beat Briggs this year. How tough is 112 out west? Schamberger will only be the 5th seed in the Northwest Kansas League Tourney (Younkin-Oakley, Deeds-Goodland, Loyd-St. Francis, Powell-Colby).

Annon from Norton beat Herrera in the finals at Newton in the 125 pound bracket. Spillman of Hoxie (3rd at state as a freshman, 4th as a soph and state champ last year) was handling Carter of Garden City (2nd @ Liberal & 2nd @ Basehor) pretty easily when he pinned him. Spillman and Annon of Norton only have one loss each and they lost to each other.

And......at 145 - WAKE-UP!!!!!! Eirsman is great and will be even better as he ages, but I can not imagine him even being close to Pyle of Sabetha (2x champ - once in 4A & once in 3A - and a 3rd), Drennan of Minneapolis (1st & 2nd - beat Pyle at state last year), Engelbert of Beloit (2nd at state last year and beat Johnson of Norton this year) or Johnson of Norton (2nd as a freshman, 1st in 3A as a sophomore and 1st in 4A as a junior also won by major decision in the finals at Newton). And if you a representative from 4A - Eric Luedke from Colby can stick with any of these guys too

Care to pick another three to send out this way?

Les, we all appreciate the vigor you promote western Kansas wrestling with and it makes great fodder for these forums. But when are these great teams going to travel and face the competition you readily promote they will defeat? Garden City is given all the credit for coming to Basehor and beating the Kansas field and a very mediocre Iowa team handily and Hutch had a respectable showing at Lees Summit - but that is it. To back up the smack you have been running you need something beside statistics and the watered-down Kansas state tournament system. Send a team to Lees Summit, Ray South or Platte County MO; Lincoln East or Omaha Skutt Nebraska; Broken Arrow Duals; Sioux City Heelan Duals, Urbandale Invite, or Mt. Ayr Duals in Iowa. How about The Clash at Rochester, MN Mayo or the Reno NV TOC. Or barring all that at least travel to Washburn Rural and put a team up again Jeff City Helias? Do you see the point that us in the KC area struggle with. We see the Oak Parks, Blue Springs, and Platte Countys, the Shawnee Heights and others travel and back up their smack with beating diverse competition. These fantastic Western teams need to go somewhere besides their backyard to garner the respect they deserve.

I don't disagree with you on the need to compete at that level. I for one would love to see it happen. But I suspect that rural Kansas teams will begin traveling to those great tournaments when individuals or corporations begin sponsoring them.

It is difficult to imagine that the coach of any one of these great teams out west will be able to sell the concept of traveling extreme distances and overnight stays at a point in time when the funding for many school districts is already at risk. In fact, I've heard of a few coaches that are being asked to cut the travel expense of their existing schedule already.

Many schools have had to or soon will be forced to cut back on staffing at the teaching level just to make the budget work. If that is going on, I don't see funding for athletics increasing. And there is not enough county assessed value to raise taxes to offset the loss of state funding - especially when rural econmomics have already been hit hard by the ongoing drought and national recession.

Goodland has been able to travel to Liberal, Newton and Basehor (last year) because their local wrestling enthusiasts (booster) club picks up a significant portion of the expense. Most other rural communities do not have the luxury of that type of support.

I suspect that Garden City has a little more latitude, given the size of their enrollment. But I'd be curious to know how they fund their travel.

I know Hoxie would love to compete against a Blair Academy or an Easton, PA - as they hit many of those kids during the freestyle circuit. And I'd love to see a Norton or a Hoxie or a ...... travel to compete in the caliber of tournament you have mentioned. But in the current agricultural recession and state budget crises, I don't see it happening.

I can't afford to write a check for them to do it. Will you?

Oh.....and I never water my statistics down more than 1 part water for every 4 parts fact!

just because the #6 guy in 6a beat a #4 in 3A doesn't say much. The 189 champion at Basehor is a 3A kid and he already beat the 215 Basehor champion earlier this year.. Things vary from weight to weight. a #6 kid from 3A soundly beat the #4 kid from 4A in 140 this week at Basehor though they wrestled last week and had a different result. I will put Hoxie up against any team in the state. It really is a kind of childish argument. I don't know why we always have to brag about our own, instead of just acknowledge good wrestlers for being good wrestlers. I do take note of a conversation I heard from a group of coaches talking at Basehor this week. They seem to all agree this tournament is tougher than any of their state tournaments. As one 5A coach said the depth of good kids in the field is a lot better.

Maybe if everyone had bags of cash like some eastern KS schools, we'd travel all over the world too...(just kidding, of course.)

I think wrestling out of state teams can be highly overrated. I remember last year, Platte County came to Highland Park ranked 14th in the country, and Manhattan beat them pretty handily. Sure they were a great team, but I'll take Kansas wrestling over any neighboring state, except for maybe Oklahoma.

Perhaps the reason Western Kansas teams don't travel to Lee's Summit, etc. is because it's a long, long, long way, and they know they can get equally tough competition in their own back yard.

Les, Well put. But I do not buy expenses as a prohibitive issue, but as an excuse. That may be seen as harsh.

Case in point - Western Kansas American Legion baseball teams travel great distances for tournaments - it is merely the will they have to do so. Whether the comfort level to dominate traditional tournaments is keeping teams at home or the comfort level of team officials to not travel you have to look at the benefits. There is a reason the Ray-Pecs and Broken Arrows of the world make the sacrifice - they place their kids in the position to be noticed and receive scholarships (which is the same reason the American Legion teams do so). The vast majority of the Kansans have zero appreciation for 3A wrestling - because we never see it. The hard truth is that the teams from the East do not have to travel West. Instead they either cross the stateline to Missouri or travel 3 hours North or South. The Western teams will have to step up and go in order to get the respect they richly deserve. Until then it is all myth and Forum fodder.

I know you are not someone to ever be questioned when it comes to the stastical data you possess. It is amateurs vs professionals. But, to the surrounding states being a state champion in Kansas does not carry the weight it does elsewhere. Simply, Kansas has two too many classes and wrestle too few matches.

Dallas, who are you saying you beat in 321A at 189, three of the top five are still undefeated. I gave props to the lager classes, but when you said that I am just trying to figure out who you have beat in the small classes. I will say something about 321A 189 and that is that there have been a large number of changes through out the season already.

My main point was just to find out who you had stuck.

I have read with interest the remarks of Les and Wrestler one.

Coach Segovia of Garden City has worked very hard at getting tough competition for his team. In the last few years he has competed in the tourney in Ponderosa High in Colorado with many national and state ranked teams in attendence. Ponderosa, ranked 15th in the nation came to the Liberal meet again.
Garden City has also been traveling and competing in the El Reno Oklahoma Team Duals the last comple of years and has been successful.
Bottom line....the Western teams do get the opportunity to wrestle great teams.
I am not going to debate the strength or weakness of West or East wrestling but check out the Colby Duals and see how the East teams fared. Garden City won at Basehor like it was a JV tourney. And please.... don't tell how tough the Missouri teams are.