In football and basketball there are fairly well-defined coaching milestones for victories for which coaches are (should be) recognized.

In wrestling, what should the "magic" number for recognizing coaches be in dual victories? The large number of duals being wrestled now-a-days due to dual-formatted tournaments affects this number in regards to whether or not a coach is "veteran" (read old). For example, 100 duals could easily be wrestled within three to four years in our current competition formats, whereas, when I was a "pup" it might take 8 to 10 years to wrestle that many duals due to (1) there being almost no such thing as a dual tournament and (2) the restriction of days of competition prior to the point system being implemented.

Is 100 still the magic number? Should it be 150?

Other suggestions/thoughts?

I think 100 at one program should be the magic number based on how some coaches jump around. I think 300 career is the mark though. I know in college David James at UCO is still trying to reach that and UCO averages 16 duals a year. He hit 275 against Newman and has been the head coach since the early 80's. Maybe 200 is the number for high school. Who is the winningest coach in Kansas history anyway?

100 is a definite milestone. Getting 100 is not as easy as one would think. I have been a head coach for 15 years (averaging 10 duals a year over the haul) and will have 94 this year. I have had overall winning records at all of the schools that I guided in the past also. This (the school that I am at now) is the first time that I have had a career losing record at a school although we are 6-4 this year. The programs that I have guided have not attended dual tournaments which is somewhat of a new concept. We went to our first dual tournament this year. I thought that was cool because we went 3-2 and that allowed me to get three wins closer. If we did that for ten years I would pick up an extra 30. So for me, 100 is quite an acheivement. Just to think that I have lasted 15 years as a head coach is an accomplishment in itself to me. There is no way that I could ever get to 300. I won't even get 200, unless I move to Carroll, Manhattan, Abilene, Goddard, Norton, etc. and I coach for another 10 years or I stay where I am and coach for another 20-30 years and I certainly will not be coaching for another 10-30 years. I am about at the end right now. I am happy building the program that I have now from one win my first season here. At this point, 100 sounds real good to me.

BUMP

I'm sure there has got to be a coach or two over the 100 mark by now possibly 150. What is Coach Kite at Onaga at? He was at Abilene many years ago in the early 80's I'm sure he's got a good chunk of wins overall.

I am going to look it up later just because I am curious, but Coach David Nigg, who retired last year after 29 years as a head coach, surely has to be over 150 dual wins. Maybe even 200 wins. Makes me want to keep track now I have 7 wins now and should have 10 by the end of the season here at Wichita South! What a career! LOL haha!

Legendary wrestling coach Rocky Welton has indeed been a true contributor and educator during his 39 years of devotion, leadership, and success as a coach in the sport of wrestling. Welton�s legacy is his ability to take seemingly inexperienced teams and produce winners out of them.

During his tenure as wrestling coach his teams won nine team state titles, three at Goodland High School and six at Garden City High School. His programs produced an amazing 30 state champions. Welton put together an incredible dual record of 200�50�4.

10 wins in a career sounds a lot like me! LOL

Reading this made me go back and total my years of coaching. I started at Bluestem High School in 1975 and posted a 11-7 record there. In 77 I started the wrestling program at Andover and over the next 17 years had a 144 and 68 record. And since coming to Augusta, I have an 88 - 63 - 1 total. If my math is correct, thats 32 years, 243 wins, 138 losses one tie, 2 sore knees, a bad ear, alot of stitches and association with a lot of great kids over the years.

I'm sure if Nigg or Jake Durham of Norton or Larry Gable of Sainty were to put their totals up they would far exceed these. And to the young coaches, you will find that watching young men reach their goals and succeed in life will greatly overshadow any accomplishments we achieved during our careers. Its a great profession full of tremendous responsibility. I always try to remember how much influence my high school coach had on me and hopefully I have been able to influence others as postively.

Coach Church:

The records I have for Coach Nigg are:

1. 1978-1979 (7- 1)
2. 1979-1980 (6- 2)
3. 1980-1981 (6- 2)
4. 1981-1982 (7- 1)
5. 1982-1983 (6- 2)
6. 1983-1984 (3- 4- 1)
7. 1984-1985 (6- 2)
8. 1985-1986 (5- 3)
9. 1986-1987 (7- 1)
10. 1987-1988 (8- 0)
11. 1988-1989 (5- 3)
12. 1989-1990 (7- 1)
13. 1990-1991 (7- 1)
14. 1991-1992 (6- 2)
15. 1992-1993 (6- 2)
16. 1993-1994 (6- 2)
17. 1994-1995 (8- 0)
18. 1995-1996 (8- 0)
19. 1996-1997 (5- 3)
20. 1997-1998 (8- 0)
21. 1998-1999 (7- 0- 1)
22. 1999-2000 (6- 2)
23. 2000-2001 (3- 5)
24. 2001-2002 (6- 2)
25. 2002-2003 (6- 2)
26. 2003-2004 (6- 2)
27. 2004-2005 (6- 2)
For a total of (167- 47- 2)

Congratulations to Alley and Nigg, great careers you have had. I could only dream of being so great and I cannot even dream of being a head coach for over 25 years, let alone 30 or more.
All that I can say is wow! And to Church, 10 wins a year sounds pretty dang good to me. Must be nice to be at a program where you could do that. At that rate, you will make 100 in much less time than I will. And you also have a good chance of getting 200 and I can pretty much assure you that I will not. I would also be very interested to get some vitals on Ark City Jackson.

Richard you are a genius! Those are very good stats. I need to find out how he did in the Valley Center Duals and the Maize Dual tournaments when he was there also. I know my first year as an assistant, he went 5-0 at Maize and something like 3-2 at Valley Center. Last year I think we were 3-2 at Valley Center. So that is at least 11 more wins along with 4 losses.

Makes him 178 - 52 - 2

I can only hope! LOL I don't think I will have 10 win years even next year! ha ha! Lucky start. Especially since I wont bump! hahaha LOL

Here's a crack (approx.) at ol' Wayne (Ark City 79-04):
22 years experience
(at least 1 state champ 20 x's)
52 consec. dual win streak
205 dual victories
12 undefeated dual seasons
13 state championships (11 consec.) in augh!
A side note - had 8 seasons with at least 4 state champions at one time!!

167+/47+/2 That's one hell of a record for a guy who had the worst/no kids program in the state. Translation: Most wrestlers in the South High program begin wrestling as freshmen. Those are big shoes to fill Coach Church. Lol!

Plus no Junior High Wrestling. SE has never had any kid's program. Makes it very difficult. Plus most of our kids can't hack it and never stay out more than a year or two if that, so we are constantly retraining new kids. We have state qualifiers walking the halls. But hey, we can always choose to do something different.

I too, am familiar with the W-SE situation as it relates to a kids program, or more importantly, the lack thereof.

In general, I think the nature of the kind of kids involved in wrestling are going to more closely resemble the overall demographic of a private school situation anyway. In Wichita, it shouldn't be surprising that the Carroll and Kapaun situations are having the long-term success that they are. Wichita schools, in general, not having that natural pipeline of a built-in kids program are always going to be at somewhat of a disadvantage. Yes, there are a couple of pipeline programs, but overall, no.

W-South is one exception to that "rule" granted.

WSEWC, you are to be congratulated btw, to your success (with OR without a kids program pipeline). A difficult situation to be sure. W-SE went from the basement to a legitimate contender in only a couple of years in this league. A very definite huge accomplishment.

Also, one of W-South's successful wrestlers this season was previously a W-SE wrestler. Definitely another difficult situation for a coach.

Just one person's opinion.

Duwayne Miller has got to be up there in dual wins. Any idea of his record Richard?

Thanks for the props Rough. I really was not fishing for them and I certainly do not want a pitty party thrown in my honor. But, I will take the props and I greatly appreciate it. I feel better already.

NO KIDDING! Next year will be a rough one!

The Lansing head coach has over 216 wins in about 22 years at Lansing.