Hey everyone, just wondering how sharky is doing in takedowns this year?

who cares. takedowns are an inflated stat. Some of the really good wrestlers out there don't play with weaker opponents by repeatedly taking a wrestler down and letting him up. This is the one thing in wrestling that bugs the crap out of me. I also don't want to hear that the really good wrestler needs the work or needs the conditioning. They are not getting that much more work by repeatedly taking the guy down because obviously it is not that hard if they can do it over and over again. I would like to hear some feedback on this and i am sorry to stryofoam for venting on his post, just some thoughts of mine came to mind.

It's working pretty good for Brett Metcalf....

24/7

was at tournament recently where good wrestler was doing this constantly his footing slipped and ended up getting pinned by a second year wrestler
if my son was opponent would rather him get pinned then repeatedly taken down

I disagree that takedowns are an inflated stat. If a kid is good on his feet, yet a weaker mat wrester, how can you expect him not to work where he is best? Compare it to a football team without a good running back but with a great QB and receivers. Would you expect a team to run? How is it any different than a kid that uses his two point tilts very effectively, yet seldom pins? I agree that I hate to see any kid embarassed on the mat, but I would never complain. If you get taken down at will, you simply need to get better.

good point

Just ask any wrestler who, in front of his coach, team-mates, family, friends and neutral spectators, has been unnecessarily subjected to repeated take-downs, by an obviously superior opponent. It brings to mind a cat toying with a mouse. For what purpose ... aside that he can? It's embarassing. It's unnecessary. Just "stick-em", and get it over with. Let the inferior wrestler preserve a little of what remains of his athletic self-worth. I side with K.C. Handballer!

I see both sides of this. My Dad really hates watching a wrestler that takes someone down and lets them up. He thinks it is bs. But I also see the side that I understand if someone is really good on there feet, and not being so great on the mat.

Here was the rule my coach gave me when I was in school. After the third takedown, if the score was not close. I would not be allowed to let him back up. He and my dad always made me work for a pin.

But trust me I believe if your good on your feet, its a art form. And nothing else makes you better then being on your feet against someone new and with different styles.

oh my gosh KC Handballer, you took the words right out of my mouth. I think that the wrestlers who "play" with their opponents show absolutely NO SPORTSMANSHIP and hurt the integrity of wrestling. It is just like a basketball coach leaving in all of his starters when they are ahead by over 30 points in the fourth quarter so that they can "get more practice" or leaving in a star running-back when they are already ahead by over 20 points in a football game so "his numbers will be higher". No matter what the reason, it's wrong.

Shelstin, I agree that there are wrestlers out there who are better at the takedowns than on the mat but they usually don't just takedown their opponent, let them up, take them down, let them up repeatedly the entire period. They at least try to work their opponent on the mat. If they don't at least try, they will never get become a better mat wrestler. (a football team without a good running back will still at least try to run a few times during the game so the running back can improve). There is no call for the so called "show-offs" who like to toy with their opponents.

I was so mad at a team earlier this year who had a wrestler that toyed with one of our teammates. And then to top it all off, their coaches were laughing on the sidelines. They thought it was the funniest thing they seen. No respect was given to our guys so no respect for any of their wrestlers or coaches. It has been over a month but I am still steamed about the situation. I am now eagerly waiting and hoping that this wrestler gets beat (justice would be to have him "played with" by a better opponent as well but that probably won't happen)

Mom4: Touche!

I also agree. If a wrestler is better on his feet then it's his choice to pick top, bottom, or neutral. I think what everyone here is talking about is the wrestler who is obviously superior in every aspect of wrestling. The people I'm talking about aren't the ones who barely get by. They're the ones who consistently take down their opponent, tilt them for 2 or 3 back points, then LET them up. The entire time they do this they are watching the score and somehow with their inferior mat skills miraculously seem to pin their opponent just a point or two shy of a tech fall. I think this is the wrestler that bothers a lot of us.

KC Handballer




Dual wins are irrelevant or just practice well yeah but at least I can host 4 to 5 home events per year so all the young kids can watch wrestling because we know the basketball team is at home at least that much.
Takedowns are inflated yeah if your running the score up on a weaker wrestler probably but most matches at the state tournament will be won on a takedown.

Just wondering what you liked about wrestling?

A lot of this is coaching also. If the coach told the kid to do that you really cant fault the kid, because you have to listen to your coach. I would like to have a coach comment if this is something that is idea of the coach or wrestler. Just to clarify i am talking about the dominant wrestler who is toying with the weaker opponent and pins him right before the tech fall, i am not talking about the wrestler who struggles on the ground and has to be on his feet to win. I really want to hear a coach defend this kind of wrestling, i dont see how it benefits anyone to wrestle like this.

How do you defend poor sportsmanship? Besides, who likes a bully? We root against them ... anyway, I do. Just wanted to throw that out there.

I am going back a few years, but Coach McBee from Dodge City had teams that were great on their feet. Their goal was to get three takedowns in the first period and take a 6-2 lead going into the second. If they could do that, they felt that they could not lose. They were solid on the low level singles and finishes. You had to prepare for that. By the same token, when Coach Gable was at St Francis, or Coach Flores was at Leoti, you knew that you had to defend the cradle. You prepared for that as well. However, there IS a difference in wrestling hard on your feet, and "toying" with an opponent. There is NO excuse for opposing coaches to be laughing at an opponent for his lack of ability.

If I had a kid that was superior, I would always let them work their takedowns the first period. After that, they needed to be working for the fall. But, as Matt said, state titles are usually won on your feet.

Dual wins are irrelevant or just practice well yeah but at least I can host 4 to 5 home events per year so all the young kids can watch wrestling because we know the basketball team is at home at least that much.
Takedowns are inflated yeah if your running the score up on a weaker wrestler probably but most matches at the state tournament will be won on a takedown.

Just wondering what you liked about wrestling? [/quote]


I like just about everything about wrestling. You make a good and valid point about the duals and getting to wrestle in front of your family and friends, i stand down on my duals argument. as far as the state tournament will be won with a take down, no freakin way, thanks for educating me. i was talking about the demeaning and the bad sportmanship when a dominant wrestler is toying with a weak wrestler and pins him right before the tech fall. If you are bad at wrestling on the mat, fine, then you should never be able to pin anyone then and win on a tech fall everytime. When you are taking down and letting the wrestler back up then pin him in 2 seconds, that is toying and that is the type of wrestling i am talking about.

I agree they need to work on things. i am talking about the extreme situation when the score is 20 to 10 after the first period. That is the type of wrestling that is uncalled for.

I don't think it's bad sportsmanship to try and win a match by scoring points by any means necessary to win. You don't revieve points in wrestling for illegal moves or unsportsmanlike conduct, and trying to tech fall a kid if they're terrible on their feet isn't bad sportsmanship, it's smart. Someone alluded to football earlier, so here's another: you're going to throw the ball to 6'5'' recievers who can run 4.4 40's when the d-backs are 5'5'' and run 5.0's.

Brett Shoffner:

I think that you miss the point. The objectionable behavior is when an obviously superior wrestler, who, for no better reason than because he can, simply chooses to unnecessarily embarrass his obviously inferior opponent by calling attention to his opponent's inferior experience, strength and/or skills. We are not talking about an evenly matched contest. We are referring to a grossly uneven contest, where one wrestler has far superior experience, strength, talent and/or skills, and simply chooses to publicly humiliate and/or embarrass his lesser opponent.

I too, as a parent witnessed such a spectacle at the expense of my own son's self-esteem (as an aside, to his credit, this son used this experience, as motivation, and didn't let this embarrassment forever take the winds out of his wrestling sails. He went on to a fine high school wrestling career) But I distinctly remember the crushed expression on his face as he sheepishly exited the mat and the smug expression of his opponent and his coaches. There was nothing my son's coaches, his family or his fans could do or say to console him and/or assauge his damaged ego. To this day, my blood pressure rises at the thought of that moment (I should also mention that my son would be utterly embarrassed that I have chosen to broadcast this episode in this forum)

In my opinion, this conduct is indefensable. It is unsportsmanlike. It is unnecessary. It is however perfectly legal. So, I suppose that if that is your idea of competition, have at it. To each his own. But always remember, I don't think too many of us root for a bully. We want them to have their comeuppance. Anyway, I do.

I think your real id is KC Ballhandler.