Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: WillyM]
#179431
01/21/11 08:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 68
Nate Smith
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No that just ensures that wrestlers that are not a elite or higher level get one match a tournament and don't get the chance to improve by wrestling others at their level.
Nate Smith Hover Naked
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Chief Renegade]
#179432
01/21/11 08:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,916
sportsfan02
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Every tournament should be on Track Wrestling! Yeah, let's increase the host school's expenses while giving spectators even more reason not to attend!
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: sportsfan02]
#179434
01/21/11 08:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 781
back in the day
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glad to know sporto is such a fiscal hawk!
The older I get the better I was!
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: back in the day]
#179435
01/21/11 08:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 781
back in the day
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Can we make the Dual State Championship a proposed rule change?
The older I get the better I was!
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: back in the day]
#179457
01/22/11 02:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Thompson
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5 match rule needs to be changed. I am not sure everyone in the state will love a dual state championship, especially without full teams. Maybe we could raise 103 up to match the sizes of most athletes in today's world.
Tate Thompson Head Wrestling Coach Pratt High School
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Thompson]
#179458
01/22/11 03:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 413
M.Church_AD
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SEED THE STATE TOURNAMENT JUST LIKE ANY OTHER TOURNAMENT!
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: M.Church_AD]
#179462
01/22/11 04:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 181
Devast8r
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TrackWrestling has a 16 man bracket, called a scramble bracket, in which no wrestler would get more than 5 matches in a day, and could be run in 1 day. It is basically a Pool to Bracket format, with 4 pools of 4. Winners of each pool are determined after 3 matches in their pools, then they are placed on a 4 man bracket. Winners of the semi-final go for 1st, losers go for 3rd. This can be wrestled out to 16th place, if necessary, with no 1 wrestler getting more than 5 matches. I think that State should look into this bracket. It would eliminate "seeding", because the 4 regional champs would be the top seed in each pool, followed by a 2nd 3rd & 4th, each from a different regional. We will be running some of these brackets at our JV tournament at Seaman through Trackwrestling if anyone wants to take a look at it.
"Praise the Lord, my Rock. He trains my hands 4 war & gives my fingers skill 4 battle."-Ps.144:1
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Devast8r]
#179465
01/22/11 05:12 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,326
Cokeley
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5 more competition points to be used ONLY for individual duals on Tues, Wed, or Thur nights. Bring back the fan friendly event without taking away the tournaments that the wrestlers need to get prepared for state.
Will Cokeley (708)267-6615 willcokeley@gmail.com
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Cokeley]
#179473
01/22/11 02:09 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,010
GregMann
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Serious Question. . .
Are there any state Activity Associations that currently allow six matches in a day? That is, are there any states currently and intentionally violating the NF rule?
I ask for two reasons:
#1 Some on here seem to think Kansas is "behind" because we don't'; and, #2 It would be a GREAT POINT to be made when discussing/proposing with the KSHSAA about allowing a sixth match.
Greg Mann Manhattan, KS
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Cokeley]
#179477
01/22/11 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 37
10yrsAfter
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Will:
Even better: Scrap points and go to dates. In Iowa, we are allowed 15 competition "dates" prior to Sectionals. That can translate to tournaments, duals, double-duals, dual tournaments, whatever. A two-day tournament can count as one "date." We have a lot of schools who get in 50-plus matches for their kids by the time they hit Sectionals.
Also, I agree with the five-match change on a NATIONAL basis. A lot of times here, in 16-man brackets, the semifinalists are automatically in the top four so backside can only wrestle back to fifth and sixth.
Jeff Holmes Former coach Current educator Always a fan
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: 10yrsAfter]
#179625
01/24/11 02:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 211
lazyman_1
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Suggestion:
Out of bounds: Make the kids wrestle on the edge of the mat. As long as 1 supporting point is on or in inside the mat, action should continue.
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: GregMann]
#179629
01/24/11 02:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 781
back in the day
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That is a great question- What states already allow a 6th match. What are the consequences if a 6th match is wrestled?
The older I get the better I was!
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: back in the day]
#179633
01/24/11 03:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 152
Coach Prieto
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I was in Tulsa this past weekend and saw several kids from other states that are in high school entered into the 15 and under division. I would like for Kansas to change the rule about participation and allow kids that have the weekend off to be able to attend and take part in these national tournaments. I know all the pro's and con's but I see more pro's/positives coming from this. Our team didn't wrestle this past weekend and I know we have a few kids that would have loved to go down and have wrestled. What is wrong with that? Nothing and I think its time for change..
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Coach Prieto]
#179640
01/24/11 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 308
Nate Naasz
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Nate Naasz, NWCA Communications/Marketing Coordinator KWCA, President LCWC, Director nnaasz@nwca.cc
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Nate Naasz]
#179654
01/24/11 05:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 158
Gary Seibel
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FYI Coaches,
This topic is also posted on the coach's forum.
Again, emphasis on KANSAS rules / modifications. 5 match limits, length of periods, out of bounds, weight classes, 7 point takedowns are NFHS rules.
As a coach, I like the point system. I think it offers great flexibility for your particular situation.
Our schedule: 1 dual tournament 2, 1-day pool format tournaments 2, 1-day bracketed tournaments 2, 2-day tournaments 6 Thursday night league duals. 2 Saturdays off...one at the end of January and one before regionals.
If we're winning matches in the bracketed tournaments, we're getting 40-45 matches. I'm using 29 pts with this schedule.
Last edited by Gary Seibel; 01/24/11 05:04 PM.
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Gary Seibel]
#179813
01/25/11 04:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 844
WillyM
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Not sure I understand the hue and cry to change the 5 match rule.
An earlier poster said the rule change is needed so a 16 bracket tournament can be wrestled in one day. Do not think I have ever seen a one day 16 bracket tournament. Have seen 16 bracket 4A regionals---but they are 2 day tournaments. I would think a one day tournament would have to start at 6 AM and finish at 9PM. Two day 4A regionals normally do not finish till close to 9PM.
Just scanned the HOLTON Tournament brackets (16 teams). Found only one wrestler who had five matches in the losers bracket--and I assume one of thos matches was wrestled on day one. a few wrestlers had six scheduled matches, but the matches included a bye carried back from the opening round.
Still do not understand why we are scheduling so many opening round byes. Eliminate the byes and if necessary pigtail the lower seeds, or the possible 1 odd wrestler, into a smaller bracket. HOLTON opens (first round byes) ranged from one to six--with no bracke being full. I would think eliminating the bye would also eliminate the need for a 6th match. And, if a sixth match is needed to determine a 5th or 7th place, who really cares?
Last edited by Contrarian; 01/25/11 05:01 PM.
Bill Mason Lansing
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: WillyM]
#179814
01/25/11 05:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 291
Jeremy Molloy
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The 5 match rule came into play at the Paola varsity one day tournament just this past weekend in the 171 bracket(16 man not full), Chavez had to forfiet for 3rd because of this stupid rule this happens all the time in jv tournaments I think there were only 3 or 4 conso finals matches wrestled this past weekend at the Goddard jv. The rule needs to be changed.
Jeremy Molloy Derby Wrestling
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Re: Kansas Rule Changes 2012
[Re: Jim Gaither]
#179842
01/25/11 06:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 844
WillyM
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I did not say it does not happen, and thanks for the links tothe BC Tournament.
But, why a 16 bracket tournament in one day. And, the BC Tournament only had 15 teams---that'a a built in bye. The 119 bracket had 5 opening byes, the 152 bracket had 2 opening byes, and the 215 bracket had 4 opening byes.
Eliminate the five byes in the 119 bracket and pigtail the 11th seed against the 10 seed. Sorry, but pigtail Loser goes home!! Surely some smart guys can then figure out some way to bravket or pool the remaining 10 wrtestlers. Eliminating the byes should reduce the bracket by at least one round--thus no possible 6th matches. In 152 pigtail 13 and 14 against 11 and 12, losers go home. Same same in the 215 bracket. Another issue with the 215 bracket. Why/how does an apparant #16 seed, paired against the #1 seed in the opening, then go on to be in position to wrestle for 3rd. Questionable BC seeding procedures.
If no other State is known to violate the National Federation 5 match rule, why expect Kansas to do it. Lots of other good ideas out there without cluttering up the issues of 6 VS 5 matches. Seems like we have a tendency to pole vault over mouse t--ds.
Last edited by Contrarian; 01/25/11 07:08 PM.
Bill Mason Lansing
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