And I didn't say there wasn't exceptions to competitive HS girls.

If you won't admit that it is an extremely rare situation, I'm wasting my time.

I totally agree that if we had a girls division, our "problems" would be solved. Much more participation of course. I still wouldn't want my girls practice partners with guys, or live wrestling guys.

Again, my opinion

Very good point on the life lessons comment.

I'll just have to trust that my daughters can learn those lessons by watching brothers wrestle, and by pushing them in the sports that they participate in.

In regards to girls ability to get college scholarships in ways other than wrestling,that is true, but if you read the original post, the parents of the Catholic boys stated to the press that the arch bishops ruling could decrease their sons "leverage" in getting college scholarships. There are many ways for boys to get scholarships besides wrestling. Many years ago I had the pleasure of attending a program led by MUs Brian Smith and he encouraged wrestlers to strive for academic scholarships since he only had 7-8 scholarships to give for wrestling each year.

Of course, they freakishly good girls are just as rare as the boys.

As a coach, when I know I have interested girls, I tell them I would prefer to have them come out in pairs so they are able to learn together and solving some of those problems. However, I would never deny a girl the right to come out for the team.

That being said, the minute they hit the mat they become just another athlete, no special treatment.

Not allowing girl to wrestle at all, however, seems to harken back to old gender stereotypes. I remember in junior high, the girls weren't allowed to run more than a 400 in a meet, because it might hurt their delicate bodies. I thought it was dumb when I was 12 and I still do.

I'm not telling anyone else what to do, I'm telling you my house rules.

"There are many ways for boys to get scholarships besides wrestling. Many years ago I had the pleasure of attending a program led by MU's Brian Smith and he encouraged wrestlers to strive for academic scholarships since he only had 7-8 scholarships to give for wrestling each year." houndpower

YES;the chances of receiving scholarship help for academics is greater than that for athletics. In fact, if you want to just about guarantee getting financial aid in college encourage your kids to become proficient in playing a musical instrument!

They fly jets. They are cops, lawyers, truck drivers, doctors, and can hold every position in society. If they want to wrestle, let them. If your religion says you can't wrestle a girl, don't. You can pick your religion, you can't pick your gender.

Doug 747, Gracy's daughter obviously has passion for wrestling. If she were in any of those other sports you listed, she might not be as good at them because she loves wrestling. She has chosen wrestling. I would never keep my daughter from pursuing a sport she loved nor would her father. I applaud Gracy for helping/letting his daughter pursue her dreams. She is lucky to have the parent she has!

In reference to gymnastics... I can tell you with 100% certainty that you DO have to be a superb athlete to get a school to fund any of your education for gymnastcs! Do you know any girls that have gone on to do ANY level of collegiate gymnastics? I do and they were all level 10 and Elite level gymnasts. (1 on a fullride to Alabama).

What is your definition of a superb athlete?

I'm guessing we can all think of someone we dont think was superb enough for college athletics...girls and BOYS! However, a coach must have seen that 'potential' for more or they would not be at that school on ANY athletic funding.

Gracy - just think how proud she would have felt if she would have won the qualifying match on the mat. She should take no ridicule from anyone, adults drove this situation, and adults had the ability to fix it. She did right by what she was told to do.

I was once "the girl", however I was never as good as "the girl" leading this topic. But I think if the sport had afforded more opportunities when I was wrestling I could have been. I started wrestling in the mid 90's and was for SURE an oddity. I spent 2 years getting my butt kicked day in and day out, but I loved every minute of it, I wouldn't trade it for the world. I just plain LOVE wrestling. I got to the point in high school that I had to think seriously about college and scholarships. I was also a decent soccer player and my junior year I started focusing on that. I tried to keep up with wrestling and soccer training but of course it was too much, so I went with what was going to give me scholarship money. I had to say good bye to wrestling. Half way through that season my wrestling coach informed my mom that had I stuck with wrestling I would have qualified for a girls tournament. Believe me, had I known that I would have stuck with wrestling. It is far easier to get a girls wrestling scholarship than a soccer scholarship. There are far fewer contenders in wrestling.

Wrestling never made me feel abused by "being groped", and I don't feel sorry for the "poor boys" either. If 1 match with a girl causes them to doubt their worth or manhood then the problem isn't the girl on the mat. They are going to have much greater issues to deal with later in life when they have female coworkers, female bosses, wives and daughters.

I think anyone that wants to wrestle should be allowed the opportunity. If there are enough girls to put together an avenue just for them that is awesome! But if not the boys should be confident in the work they have put in and respectful enough to recognize that they should EXPECT girls to come out full force and armed with the same confidence.

I for one am looking forward to watching my daughter and all the other girls wrestle in McPherson this weekend.

Best of luck to all!

Where did I say Mr. Gracy couldn't let his daughter wrestle, where did I say he was a bad person for letting his daughter wrestle? I have my reasons for not. He, and many other parents, have their reasons for letting their girls wrestle.

I am not going to sit here naming names of girls or boys that were far from being a superb athlete, that played sports in college, but rest assured, lots of colleges will take them. Remember, you have to read my whole post, not bits and pieces. I said not at the D1 level for the most part, but if your kid wants to play a sport in college, and get a little money for it, he or she can do it. I'm not saying they are going to send a limo to your door, but they can go to college and get some money for it. They can't pick their school either, they have to take what they can get......

I am happy for any kid that pursues a sport in college, no matter what it is. You only have one chance to do it.

Ask anyone that knows me, and they'll tell you how bullheaded I am, so my mind won't change about my daughters.

Again, no one else is affected by my decision at my house. My daughters will grow up to be contributing members of society, not a drain on society. And if by chance they don't, it won't be because I didn't let them wrestle.


There isn't a girl on this thread who would be being honest, if they would say "no problem", if my son would insist on being on the fastpitch softball team.

Doug
ps I wouldn't mind a girl that could kick extra points for our football team!! There was a HS team from around here that recruited a gal off the soccer team if I remember correctly, that was a pretty good kicker......I would be much more likely to let my daughter play football than wrestle.

Doug, if someone give you a shovel you sure are going to dig a hole. You are not that different than my son.

I am upset that neither you nor Jayrud responded to my smarta$$ remark about college choices.....

I don't like people that are of the "don't respond, you only encourage him" mentality..

Dangit, if I get your goat, I have to get some credit for it

So to summarize:

1-My daughters won't wrestle

2-If my son or a kid on our team wrestles a girl, we are going to try to kick her butt

3-If a girl kicks my son's or a kid on my team's butt, I will encourage the kid to get better so he can kick her butt next time

4-I would never consider forfeiting to a girl, and would not care if they fired me, because I would fight it tooth and nail. Remember, I say this because I don't make my living coaching and teaching.

5-I don't have a number 5, but it looks like a more complete summary if there are 5 items.

Doug, you got your opinion. Here's mine. My son wrestles and I would really mind if he was groped. I would have a big problem with it. I would get him out of the situation real fast, maybe call the cops.

So you're saying if a kid loses to a girl, then they have the option to quit. How would that work?
Would you say "you lost to a girl and are now tainted. You have the option to quit now". If you would of the beat the girl, you would of have to stay out, but since you lost you can quit."

Sorry Gracy, you had a great post and too bad it got hi-jacked. But, it appears this thread has ran its course, what more can be said once Doug posts 15 times. LOL

Doug, it just amazing watching you in action!!! This was obviously a topic you were not going to win, but you jumped in with both feet. I do think your last post helped to pull you out of the hole you dug for yourself. It was well done.

Fan of the Sport, I think you are over-reading into Doug's post. Your call the cops comment was an over-reaction. No one was talking about that kind of situation.

An applicable quote from King Of The Hill, "Bobby Slam" episode.....

DALE: Wrestling a girl. That's a tough one, Bobby. If you win, you get the shame of having beat up a girl. If you lose, you just better hope she snaps your neck. That's the quickest way.
BOOMHAUER: Yeah, man, talkin' 'bout you're danged if you do, danged if you don't, man.
BOBBY: Dad, what am I gonna do? I'm danged here, I'm royally danged!

Thanks to all for the replies.

Donedidit - we'll see you Sunday.

Mr. Johnson I would be naive to think this post would stay on track. Lol

And well, Bobby you're right...you're danged!

It was an over dramatic statement about the cops. I think in a sarcastic way, I was saying Doug used the wrong word when he said "grope" and I was driving his losing position home.