This may be the best topic ever posted on this forum! Over the years I have heard it all!!! The last few years I have heard "I am going to quit to get my grades up." Kids that say that always crack me up because they generally are not doing well in class to begin with. They always tell me that they are going to study for those two hours a night after school. I have NEVER seen a kid quit a sport and improve in class. It just doesn't happen.

Another one I have heard is the time honored excuse "I am going to quit and get ready for next year." Wow....I am sure that's the method of choice for the Gables, the Brands, and the Smiths of the world.

The bottom line to me is that kids quit because they find out that it's a lot of work and we live in a society where people tend to run from work. I would love to have more kids out every year (we usually finish with 10-12) but I would rather have my 11 kids now busting their fanny's every day than 20 kids that don't want to work.

That is all.

Numbers are down all across the state. That's one reason that I posted this topic. I am absolutely fed up with excuses. Coach Jilka hit one thought right in the head, and that's that many parents are too lazy to support their kids. Wrestling is tough. Many kids simply can't stand the fact that when they get beat head up, they can't rationalize it by saying that it wasn't their fault. They try sometimes, but that's an entirely different "excuse" thread. I don't take pictures now until around the middle of January. I don't want "quitters" in the team picture. Our kids are serious about getting t-shirts with the names of quitters and the reasons given. I've even ran it past the A.D. I think that's probably asking for a lawsuit, but I have to admit that I love the idea. They want to put a "Hall of Shame" poster on the wall. I think that next year we will do that, and I will make it clear during the parents meeting.

Im using my sons Log to express on how I feel about wrestling in General. My son has been involved with wrestling since the age of 10. He is also involved with football, and baseball. I have watched him mature into a fine young man that I'm very proud of, and support him to the fullest. I helped coach in football, and in wrestling. And I myself have seen what a NON involved parants effect can have on a child, or the ones who seem to get off track,and run with the wrong croud can have. I myself was one that choose years ago to walk away from the sport and used one of those many lame excuses, and trust me I have regreated every minute of the last 22 years regreating it. Wrestling teaches a kid discipline, and self respect, I feel more than any sport that there is. A kid who takes wrestling serious and is involved in other sports are the ones who seem to give a coach his full attention, are the ones who don't horse play at practice, are the ones who ask questions and take criticism to improve, and seems to be the ones who never blame a team mate for anything that went wrong or a lose. My hat goes off to all the kids who hang in there, sticking it out even in their off years and not looking for a easy way out. Because believe me when I say you will regret it done the road, and you will never realize how wrestling and all sports will prepair one for life after sports.

Well said Shelstin. I love that wall of shame/shirt with the quitters names on it. I am sick and tired of busting my butt on underclassman. Get them where they need to be by the time they are seniors and then they quit due to a plethora of excuses. We have been affected due to the "I got to work to save up for spring break trip, so I can get faded" excuse more than any other this year. Of course then a few years later they come to visit and it seems that they always regret quitting their senior year.

Wrestling is not a sport for lazy people. You are going to lose around 12 weekends during the season. You are going to get up early for weigh-ins and get home late. Then do it again the next day. You will put in around 20 hours of gym time during a weekend. Most people casually involved with the sport can not begin to comprehend the time involved, much less the intensity of practices, and when you add in weight loss, it's just too much for most who haven't grown up with it. That's why I feel that schools that are not supported by a strong kids feeder program will always struggle, while those with great feeder programs will always be strong, or at the least re-cycle to being strong when their athletes allow them to do well. I know that a kid that has been pushed too hard by parents when they were young CAN get "burned out", and make them resent the sport. When we have kids drop out in high schol that have been very successful in the kids programs....well...that is very frustrating.

This issue about academics and athletics hits close to home right now. Mr Shelstin probably hit the nail...a little "time management". So I want to tell Alex what I told my youngest son.

Nurse Ks is right - grades must come first. I also firmly believe in life after sports.

However, "choice by default" should always be the exception.

Instead, "choose to find a way to make room for all good things in your life."

"Good living" is all about time management "and character". So it's better to learn "how" now, before you leave High School.

They want to put a "Hall of Shame" poster on the wall. I think that next year we will do that, and I will make it clear during the parents meeting. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Yikes. Sounds like a bad idea to me. Not only regarding potential law suits but if a kid wants to quit - that is their business. Most already feel bad about quitting. Do you want kids to stay with it because they love the sport or because they are afraid about being in the 'Hall of Shame'? Leave the poor kid alone. Wish them well. Everybody needs love. Sometimes it takes wisdom and bravery to know when to quit. Sometimes the dragon wins. I always encourage kids to stick with things and not quit - but if they choose to quit - darn, rats. But life goes on and they will learn lessons one way or another.

In this world we have all different kinds of people. Some will always excell no matter what. Some will fail. Some will do so-so.

I'd concentrate on the ones that stick with it and not focus my energies on the ones that quit. I think trying to guilt them into staying is short-sighted in the long run. I think it will back fire.

I am sure that everyone in here realizes that there is life after wrestling and that in the grand scheme of things wrestling is not important at all. But I cannot fathom quiting ever. I was taught at a very young age that quitting is not an option if you go out for an activity or sport or whatever then you finish what you start. If after that activity finishes and you do not want to come back then fine. But once a person quits it becomes easier and easier. I grew up with a combat wounded father who never allowed me to quit. Were there times when I didnt want to do something that I started? Absolutely but who hasnt faced that dilema. I can honostly look myself in the mirror and know that I have never quit at anything. In this A.D.D. world we live in we have allowed quitting to be normal. Could I have done more, probably. But then again I can only do so much between the hours of 3 and 6

I agree with the many comments made on this topic however, yes, the dragon wins from time to time but thats a simple loss of a match before many to come.... my father always told me to finish something you've started, something you've committed to - It's hard to believe that accepting someone's resignation is ok! how's that prepare that person for life after athletics? There comes a point in everyone's life where you can't quit, you should prepare yourself - before you have a family depending on you. Those should stick with it due soley to complete what they've started - who know's, they could make a turn, but at a minimum, learn it's not alright to quit! Stick with the one's that want to be there - works good till you allow that one person to quit and later find out he's a druggy and is wasting his life! As coaches we have influence, we should utilize it.

This is a very good topic. Unfortunately, the young men who quit are not likely to read this thread. I never accepted the "improve my grades"
excuse, because studies show that students who participate in activities have better grades than the non-participants. On the topic of quitters, I have a rather humorous anecdote. I once had a young man practice every day until Thanksgiving vacation and, of course, he didn't show up for a single vacation practice. Needless to say, I didn't see him again, until we had our first dual and we won convincingly. After it was over he came up to me and pleaded to let him come back out. I did and you guessed it, he was in good standing until X-mas break. So, to make a long story short, I had a kid quit on me twice in one season. I never made that mistake again.

Love the idea of the "Wall of shame"! I also agree that putting actual names anywhere would be a problem. It may even result in this idea being done away with all together. If you just put the quoted excuses and perhaps the one its attributed to as something like "quitter from 2005". Also, a pre-season athlete-parents meeting detailing (especially for kids and their parents that don't know what all is involved with wrestling) all that is involved and what to expect.

Also, IMHO, no time like junior or senior year in high school to be properly shamed. Quitting on your teammates, your coach, your school, and most importantly, yourself (especially in mid-season) IS shameful. Unfortunately, these days, with all the political correctness, hyper-sensitivity, and our excuse-laden society, kids aren't really held to the notion that quitting something like this a bad thing. Can we all imagine what our world would be like if our grandfathers and great-grandfathers were made of what the current culture prescribes? We live in a world where "peace-loving" muslims want to cut off your head and burn down your house because they have been offended...because it will "please" their creator. Quitters and other like-minded ilk should shut-up, quit wasting the time of people that want to make a positive difference, and just move to France.

The bottom line truth is that those that endure, those that keep going, those that stick it out will ALWAYS be successful (especially in our current culture), in most everything they do. Such people should be held in high regard and naturally be an inspiration. Quitters should likewise be held appropriately in low regard.

Excellent post btw, Shelstin! Agreed.

Ultimately, it is not the kids that quit, it is the parents. The Parents don't want to make the commitment. Everyone wants to halfa*s it. They want to wrestle varsity on Thursday and Saturday, but don't want to practice during the week. Those attitudes are caused by parents not willing to grab a kid by the ear and tell him how it is. Those same kids will leave school and expect to be hired as the CEO of a company, rather than starting out as the janitor.

I just hate when their name is on the shirt because every time i put it on i think hmmmm theres a quitter....

Why not take the shirt or the wall of shame idea and turn it around and make it a positve for the kids that do stick with the program?

For example: Rather than make a shirt with the names of the kids that quit and their excuses do something like this....

1. Front of shirt says words to the effect "Are you tough enough to hang with the best?"

2. Back of shirt: "We are!" and then list the wrestlers that make it through the season. (I know the sayings can be better thought out but just trying to show a concept.)

Rather than a "Wall of Shame" how about a wall that says something like "Dog Pound....only the tough survive!" or the "Jungle and we're the kings of the Jungle", list the names of those that stick it out, and then ask "Are you tough enough?"

Just some thoughts to reinforce the positive for the kids that do grind it out and recognize them rather than recognize the kids that quit. I think you will find that you will have more people wanting to be a part of the group and staying rather than leaving.

Just some thoughts.

Good post Shawn. Glad you shared some of your Army values based perspective and that thing called “leadership” that recognizes the value of positive motivation in coaching.

I found it very disturbing that “coaches” (I am using this term lightly), call their wrestlers “pathetic” while others suggest making “t-shirts of quitters” or “walls of shame” in their wrestling rooms. While there are many styles and techniques for coaching kids, any of the above reminds me of something a play ground bully would come up with.

Wrestling is a tough sport and not meant for all. Kids will quit for various reasons and yes it is frustrating to their teammates and coaches. And yes, high school athletics is not the same thing as little league t-ball where every participant gets Kool-Aid and popsicles after every game—we expect a little more out of our high school students.

Than again, high school wrestling is not the Special Forces Qualification Course. As a commander of a Ranger Training Company some years back, I routinely had 5 or 6 Rangers want to quit in a three week period. With some, we took their resignation from the course, because in our opinion, they just did not have what it took to continue. We would wish them the best, and reminded them they could always try again down the road. Some however, we tried to get to the root causes for them wanting to quit (for example, wife just sent them a letter that she wants a divorce, etc.). In some cases, the Ranger Instructors were able to “coach” the potential Rangers to graduation—helping them through their difficulties, leading them to success.

There may be a few examples (e.g. the former Iraqi National Soccer Team under the outstanding leadership of Uday Hussein) that belittling athletes and negative reinforcement has some value, I dought there are many. Ideas like “walls of shame” in high school wrestling rooms has no place in Kansas schools.

I can only hope that parents, athletic directors, principles, school boards, and the Kansas Coaches Association does some self policing on this matter.

For those wrestlers that are fortunate enough to be gifted athletically, mentally stronger than others, have better family settings, or just a little smarter than others, I recommend you lead your teamates by example and use positive reinforcement. Both your team and yourself will be better off.

Mike Flynn

Thanks Mike for the big ol' slice of humble pie. Very good post. However, and just for the record, I would not consider a kid quitting the wrestling team because his wife wants a divorce to be pathetic. That would be a fairly serious issue.

P.S. Meet me by the bike rack at 3:15 after school and we can continue this discussion.

I was once on a team that had 28 kids on the first day of pratice and only took 8 kids to regionals. We had one of the best coaches in the state and when he left we got a new coach in straight out of college, and he ran alot of pratices like college pratices.needless to say as bad as that year sucked it felt pretty cool to be one of eight kids in the school who stuck it out for the whole season, regardless of how much it sucked during the season. So i have to agree with everyone when they say there really is no good excuse for quitting unless under extreme cirucumstances. At the high school level at least.

Needless to say we got a new coach the next year and things were better after that.

I'm offended that anyone would compare an idea of a hall of shame with the political assassinations of athletes of an Iraqi regime. First and foremost, this is not a coaches idea. It is coming directly from those that have struggled, sacrificed, and been dedicated enough to stick it out.

Your are welcome Bill.

Mike