6 and under

will they ever add a 6 and under division to the state tournement in topeka

I hope not. Would the 6 and under be for the kids or for the parents of the kids?

The answer is no they won't! But when they move State to Wichita hopefully to the new sports arena (if we get it) they will. Plus the Dodge City people will be happy.

Cody Calvin won the 8 and under when he was either 6 or 7 and I can assure you it was as equally rewarding for him as it was his parents. Not all parents are morons in it for themselves though I have met some that were in it for themselves even when their kids were much older.

1654 registered 6 & under
101 registered 16 & under
who deserves it more.

Glad to hear that it was rewarding for Cody. I just don't want to see parents burn their kids out on wrestling.

Most of the 16 & unders don't register until they are eligible to wrestle, when their high school season is over. I would imagine most of the 16 & unders already registered were either registered at the same time as their younger siblings, or they had to get their card early to participate in fall brawl.

Most 16 & unders who come back to club wrestling have spent years in the kids system and really enjoy the chance to come back. Those who haven't are oftentimes newer wrestlers who would really like an opportunity for more mat time to better prepare them for their next high school season. Many of them enjoy the chance to compete against current and former rivals whose schools are in different classes. You may see a 4A state champ wrestle a state champ from another class, or any number of similar scenarios.

These wrestlers have earned this opportunity, they comprehend it and they appreciate it. I think the 6 & Under Championships are a great idea. It gives them their own facililty, it's all about them, and it doesn't take so long, which benefits the little ones. They have lots of years to grow and learn in wrestling, and at the end of those years, many of those wrestlers will truly value that chance to come back.

even through ottawa throws a great tournement for the 6 and under kids it doesnt have the same excitment that the big state tournement has

No, it doesn't, but it is still exciting for the wrestlers. If they continue wrestling, they will have ten more chances for that big excitement. Today's 6 & Unders will be one day's 16 & Unders and there will be a lot of them that don't want to miss out on their last two chances to compete at Kids' State. It would be great if they could add everyone, it's just probably not feasible logistically. If you added them, somebody would be wrestling out in the exhibition hall, which also takes away from the big show. If it doesn't happen, it's okay. They'll age a year or two, and they'll be there.

How about we add the 6 and under, and wrestle middle school and high school weight classes. That would give the young ones a true state and give the older boys the chance to wrestle without adding more wrestlers to an already big tourny.

Bingo

This would be great if it ever happened, and a formula I would easily support.

Sounds like a good idea.

As a parent and a coach. I say no to the 6 and under state tournament. A two month season and 20 matches is plenty for that age division. I personally would like to see these kids wrestle in high school and not raise their expectations at such an early age. I see enough tears from this age group daily at practice, regular tournaments, and their attention span is very short to begin with. That is just my two cents worth. I was against it 12 years ago and I am still against a 6 and under state tournament this year. This topic gets voted on every other year by the club representatives at the state meeting. I guess you know my vote.

Coach Sean

my son wrestled at ottawa 6 & u the past two years. he had 32 & 64 man brackets!! two years ago he got on the back side and wrestled 7 matches in one day!! It is a very popular and definitely a great tournament. I think the format could be better in regular two day state tounament scenario. If you look at many of the 8 & u brackets many of those kids are 6 & u kids anyway. If you put 6 & u in the State Tournaments you would allow more 8 & u to make it too. I recall this topic being brought for the last three years. No changes yet.

6U does not need to be at state. These are all novice kids I would rather give the oppurtunity to 16U kids that have worked for years to become good wrestlers. a lot of 6U quit within a couple of years.If they are good they can wrestle 8U at state.Let them learn the sport and lets give the oppurtunity to compete to the kids that really deserve it.

Wrestling 7 matches in one day? hmmmm

Well I think the 6 and under is to young to put that kindof pressure on a child but that is only my opinion. I would like to see them learning more then competing. I really don't even like the idea of 6 and under wrestling against 8 and under at state because 6 is very young.

I know there is a lot of interest and probably should be put into State but I just can't see why we need to. Let the learning become the important issue.

I agree. I think that kids this young don't need the extra pressure to win. Even in regular tournaments, I have seen parents get so upset when their young son loses a match or a kid start crying when they lose because they have "disappointed" their parents. What happens to wrestler burnout? Are we pushing kids to young too hard? Is it really that important that a 6 year old is a state champion? What other sport starts this young with a state championship?

There have been several posts on this subject and thought that BOS made a decent point here. Let me explain, here is the numbers of registered USA Wrestlers in Kansas:

6 & Under - 1,654
7 & 8 - 1,555
9 & 10 - 1,433
11 & 12 - 1,194
13 & 14 - 626
15 & 16 - 101
over 16 - 29

It is certain that the numbers for 15 & 16 and over 16 will go up with the conclusion of the High School Season and the beginning of the Freestyle / Greco Season.

That said, it is obvious that the largest membership of USA Wrestlers in Kansas does not receive all of the full benefits if considering that the State Tournament is one of the benefits, which I believe it is. I support the incorporation of a 6 & Under state for one primary reason; BOS is absolutely correct, when polls in the past have been put out, the overwhelming majority of individual members of Kansas USA Wrestling supports 6 and under being involved in the state tournament.

I believe that the additional volunteer base will help make up for additional volunteers that are needed, and provide additional revenues to take care of the additional costs. I also believe that if done correctly that you can include 6 & Under as well as keep the 16 and under, especially if using one of the proposals presented above, a single Jr. High Age division, and a single High School Division, in some ways this would also provide a sort of Grand State format for Kansas. The room that is currently used for weigh in's in Topeka could be used for additional mat space if needed. I know there is a cost to this, but remember more kids, more parents, more wrestlers, more fans, equals more revenues to pay for the additional costs.

A couple of other points and I'll let the debate continue. By the way, I really don't want to offend anyone here. I have a concern as to who should be making these decisions and that those making the decisions vote the way the majority in their districts choose as opposed to their own concerns. That is a part of the responsibility of representative representation. I would hope that individuals would seek appropriate information from those in their districts before placing a vote. The process is again pretty easy. The forums for example allow polls to take place and again, if one is placed here I believe we will see that easily over 60% of persons voting in that poll support the incorporation of 6 & under at the state tournament. Lastly, it should be clear that I don't have a child in this age group, my son is quite a bit older now and I will likely never have a son in this age group, hopefully someday a grandchild but never again a son. I have been involved in the sport for some time now and believe that the getting “burned-out” argument just don’t hold much water to me. For some kids, when pressure is placed on them by the coach and parents, that is certainly so, but that “burned-out” feeling can happen for a 1st year wrestler starting in Jr. High. Kids are actually pretty resilient and the truth of it is that, for many, to have one chance to wrestle at the big show, is better than never having the chance at all.

By the way, there are those that I have a great deal of respect for like Coach Lemon that obviously disagree with me, I am okay with that and won't loose any respect, we just disagree.

I have a six year old that would love to go to State. He wrestled at VC at 8U A bracket and took 2nd, so we are hoping he has a shot at making it. He then had an injury at practice that looked like it would end his season and was very unhappy that he wouldnt have the chance. Now after finding out his ankle is not broken, it looks like he will get his chance. Don't underestimate the importance of going to State for a 6 year old. Some of them work extremely hard to succeed and should be given the same opportunities as the older kids.

again 6u kids do not belong at state. Why move mats into another room for the older kids, they have worked hard for years and DESERVE to be rcognized wrestling in the big room. All this would do is force some of the older kids out if we used single age divisions. The system works fine now why fix it if it's not broke. The only way 6U should even be considered for state is if they wrestle in the weigh in room. Save the big show for the ones that have worked hard for years and deserve to be rcognized

If I counted right there were 92 six and under kids at Ottawa Last year. That is 5.6% of 1,654 kids this year. There were 226 kids at 16 and under - state qualifiers last year. A few more were beat out at subdistricts. Also, I know many of the High Schoolers do not show up. If that number (92 and the participation rate 5.6%) of six and under is any indication of the parents not sending there kids to Ottawa for the State Championship - Those numbers might speak for the majority of parents feeling towards at state level tourny. I know there are a few six year olds that go to the 8 & under state and most of them go home disappointed. I still believe for the most part 6 and under state championship is to young for baseball, football, basketball, tennis, track, boxing, or whatever.

Coach Sean

Saying a 6 year old does not deserve to go to state because he hasnt worked hard enough or long enough to have earned it is a poor argument in my opinion. I have a 6 year old in his third year.He has a strong competitive nature and works hard at practice and at home with his 11 year old brother. I'm not saying all 6 year olds are ready for the kind of intense compition that happens at the state level,but there are several little guys who are already serious about winning. The amount of time put into a sport does not intitle you to a state tournament you earn that right by your performance. A wrestler could compete for ten years and never make it past districts.Just because a wrestler is 6 dose not mean he dos'nt have desire to win state. Alot of little wrestlers have seen older siblings compete at the state level.Last year my son told me he didnt want to try to go to state,this year at 6 he says he want to win it. All Im saying is dont under estimate our smallest wrestlers. Do they deserve a spot at the expocenter? Ask my 6 year old.
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

What i am saying is why penalize a kid who has worked hard for 10-12 years to become a good wrestler and compete at the highest level in our state. Who deserves this chance more a kid who has worked for 1-2 years and still has 10 years of wrestling left to compete at state or a kid who has competed for 10-12 years and this is there last hurah so to speak. I vote for the kid who has put in 10-12 years and who can't compete at this level again

I think some of the reason for low participation at 6 year old championship at Ottawa is that it is the day after districts. If older siblings wrestled at districts alot of parents want a day off. Telling a 6 year old they will be wrestling in 8& under may discourage a few from wanting to try the state path
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

I'm not saying I want to elimanate the 16's they deserve their spot. But I also believe there are some scrappy 6's who may enjoy the parade of wrestlers. How room would be made, I dont know.If it never happens I'm sure the little guys will persevere.
Jon Murray
PWC

I wouldn't mind as long as the older kids are not left out. All of the talk i have heard is to eliminate 14u and 16u weight classes or to eliminate 16u all together. That is why i am against it. If there is room for everyone then why not have them.

The last thing we should do is to eliminate any wrestlers from compitition. We need to mantain the intrest we help to develope as coaches and parents.
One post mentioned the tears shed from little wrestlers, I've noticed that at all ages. Competitive people big and small hate to lose. Especially if they are used to winning.
There is another post entitled "what do you like about wrestling?". When I asked my 6 year old he said "winning, getting 1st, and its fun
Jon Murray
Pwc

I had to go back to the 2003 Archives to get some info on this very same topic. Here it is and there was a whole bunch more.

Member Member # 21 posted April 03, 2003 09:30 PMApril 03, 2003 09:30 PM This topic has been discussed at great length for the last four or five years and it has ran off people from coming to the state meeting because they would argue about it for so long. District II has been pushing to add 6&U at state the other three districts have been apposed.Now not everyone in district II is in favor nor are all the people in the other districts apposed. But last year we voted for 6&U at state and it got turned down 70% to 30%. This year was the first state meeting without discussing it and it was nice.The main reason everyone used was it put to much pressure on the 6 yr. olds to wrestle at state.


smokeycabin Member Member # 17 posted April 04, 2003 04:53 AMApril 04, 2003 04:53 AM 6 & UNDER STATE IS TO YOUNG PERIOD. I know I am not speaking for everyone. I have coached youth wrestling for over twenty years. I have coached 5 year olds and I have coached college all-americans. I also vote at the state body meeting and I will never vote for 6 & under state. We do not need to put false expectations into these young childrens minds. A 6 & under state champ may not make it back to state for another 4 years or ever. This creates false expectations in the child and in the parents who think their kid is the toughest roughest rumbler this side of the Mississippi. My son was an pretty decent wrestler at six and under and won the majority of his matches in the two tournaments I let him pick to enter. When he graduated to 8 & under and he was all of 7 years old he was getting it handed to him pretty hard by some eight year olds. When he was eight he dealt some of the 7 year olds a whipping. I think as a whole that is the natural progression the majority of kids make. I as a coach do not want to burn out the young participants when he or she is in eigth grade. I have seen it all to often that a parent is trying to create a national/olympic champion. Your child is not you and never will be you. So lets stop all this nonsense for a 6 & under world champ. I have seen parents run their kids out of baseball, football, track, tennis, golf, etc. Do not live your life through your childs eyes.I have seen parents way out of hand watching the six and under group and our sport doesn't need that kind of pressure put on these young people.The boys and girls will grow up at their own pace - not in your or my time frame. THE END!

Very well said smoky cabin I agree 100%

WOW sorry smokey cabin. Didnt realize I was trying to create an olympic champ or living through my child. Both my sons love to wrestle and my older son made it to state last year and is getting it handed to him this year at 12& under. Now he must be let down and wont want to wrestle anymore! I must be trying to run him out of the sport. Thank goodness you have insight I dont or at 36 years of age I would continue to live through my 6 year old.
All I know is when my little guy wins he jumps in my arms with joy. The last 2 seasons my wife and I would ask our son if he wanted to go to a tournument if he said no he didnt wrestle, we didnt make him wrestle. We were stuck living through our older son on those weekends. This year our little guy has wanted to hit every tournament and has won 6 out of 8. Now I have some experiance and know that next year will most likley be tough for him at 8& under. I hope that dosnt hurt his chances for the olympics. All I knom for sure is he likes to compete and if hes tired he will tell us just like he did last year. From my experiance coaching you cant force a child to be competitive either they are or you wait for them to develope. Sorry for the nonsense about 6 year old wrestlers.
Jon Murray
PWC

smokeycabin,

There were 92 placers at Ottawa six and under kids at Ottawa Last year. 16 weight classes and as many as 30 kids in some brackets. I'm just guessing but pretty sure there was well over 300 kids.

If you did not know that was a results page and not a list of entries.

They do list only the placers of the tournament. The place earned is the number just to left of name.

If we placed a pole for six and under state - you would need to survey 200 parents who have kids from each age division to get a representative sample. Not just the parents of kids who are currently 6 and under. Each voting member could only vote in one age division if they have more than 2 kids. How do you develop the mailing list for the random sample? You would have to do it three years in a row to get a rolling average. It would be similar to forcasting school enrollments.

Pancake,

Sorry, I made a mistake and I was wondering when someone would catch that. If 300 hundred was the number that is still 18% participation rate. I am only human. I did not create the statistic 70% NO to 30% YES vote for 6 & Under State Tournament three years ago at the State Meeting.

Coach Sean

Smokeycabin,

Nobody is saying if a 6U division is added at state that you must have your child participate. It would be perfectly fine for those who ofject to keep your kids at home. So, why do you feel you need to make that decision for everyone else? If you are worried about other parents burning their kids out it won't be a problem with your child and he will reap the benefit when he's in high school.

It is not my intention to eliminate opportunities for these youngsters. If a few of the parents around the mats for 6 & under would act like the majority of parents IN THE STANDS. I call it "The Grizzley Sow Syndrom" Where Moms and Dads are initially there to protect their cubs, but then end up fighting with other Moms, Dads, Grandparents, Coaches, Refs, and even Kids from the other team. It is very hard to coach and help someone's child when a parent is screaming in my ear quit crying, get up, get mad, etc. These verbal coaching techniques are not in the books on coaching wrestling. I have heard MUCH MUCH worse than the above mentioned but I'll keep that out of the forum. Have you ever seen the number of coaches per kid at the eight and under state tournament in each corner. Some of those coaches have a camera, camcorder, - some (1/2 or more) of those in the corner do not have a coach’s card. Could you imagine the 6 & under. I hope that day does not come. Some parents have "Press Passes" - I did not know Kansas had that many local papers following kids wrestling. I do not want to get into any personal attacks or discussions about any specific kid, family or club. 5 and 6 year olds - yes 1/3 to 1/2 half of their life they have been in diapers.

Coach Sean

My kids have been coached by smokeycabin for more than 8 years and trust me, his intentions on keeping 6 and under out of state are coming from his years of dealing with the Novice kids. When we joined the club we were told he was the best when it comes to working with Novice kids. Our club (STA) is a success because of smokeycabin and our Novice program.

By the way, he's pretty good with the open kids too!

wrestlingmom

I hate to say this but will, I believe that the only ones saying the above statement are people opposed to the Under 6 format. I have not heard a single supporter of U 6 support this position. There has been much discussion on this in the past, including solutions of how to include state for everyone, and even this year a proposed solution that would likely allow everyone in the "big" room.

I believe everything that smokeycabin has said and back him up. Let's look at Kansas at the high school level. Where are the top wrestling towns and programs? Do those wrestling towns push young kids as hard as in other towns? I know of two top wrestling towns who LIMIT the tournaments a young wrestler can participate on. Why? Because they have discovered that they were loosing some very good and talented wrestlers from burnout. They also felt is was more important to teach them the basic moves well than to worry about winning at the tournaments.

Smokeycabin, the comment about the trouble with parents in the corner is a legitimate issue. There is a solution though, anyone in the corner, or on the floor has to have a coach’s card. Then once that is obtained, tournament director’s enforce the code of conduct and appropriate behavior of coaches and start handing out appropriate discipline when individuals don't adhere to the code of conduct.

I too have coached all levels of kids in various sports for over 30 years now, (I coached my first 6-year-old basketball team when I was 15). I have learned, that the head coach has to take control, and often time that means taking control of the parents. I also think that sportsfan makes a very valid point, the decision to participate or not, should be left up to the parent, not all parents are bad when it comes to coaching or putting pressure on their children.

Mr. Furches,

I agree with your last post but I have yet to see the results of enforcing our intentions. The following is something I obviously did not write. But, I think it would help educate the ones we need to give something to think about.

The underlying philosophy of youth sports should rely on a developmental model of sport versus professional models of sport. It is in this view, that the body, mind and soul of youth are in a developmental process and should be attended to while coaching a child. Teams and coaches have a tremendous impact on a developing child. They hold the power to build positive self-regard, cooperation, trust, respect, integrity, strength, character and other traits of a healthy person. Youth sports need to be focused on the process of the experience versus the outcome. The internal life of a child cannot be sacrificed for “the win.” The measure of success for a child involved in youth sports should be based on their “striving” and commitment to “maximum effort.”

How to Keep Youth Sports Positive
1. Research the youth sport organization
2. Interview and meet with coaches for committing to a team or private lessons
3. Discuss season goals with child athlete, coaches and parents - make sure everyone is on the same page
4. Discuss expectations around winning.
5. Coaches, parents and athletes need to develop a philosophy around losing
6. Examine whether the coach or parents is imposing personal "fantasies" on the athlete
7. Develop a strategy for periodized training and methods of recovery

Unfortunately I don't think the code of conduct will help us here. The powers that be apparently didn't consider sportsmanship enough of a problem to be included in the document. The good news is, it all fit on one page of paper which I'm sure was the goal in the first place.
I wish people like smokeycabin had as much of a problem with people treating 8U-12U kids the same way he describes the 6U abuse.

Coach Sean, great piece. Looks like something I obtained from Coach Appleby in New York, originally from Kansas. We have found at least a couple of things we agree on and I am sure there are more.

Sportsfan, we are both in total agreement that sportsmanship needs to be included in the code of conduct as is being presented on the front page of this web site. I am speaking more though from what is expected of a coach regarding the rules and appropriate behavior.

My son is in the 8 and under and we won't ever have a six and under wrestler in our family. Our daughter doesn't have an interest in the sport. I won't live through either of them as I was not a wrestler. My interests are finding a way to help them their interests, not mine. I don't have any ulterior motives for wanting 6 and unders at the State Tournament other than seeing those little guys/gals try to win in that atmosphere.

They pay their money for a card and membership just like everyone else. Do these 6 and under kids pay anything during the year that is used for the State Tournament? I really know very little about the financial aspect of Kansas Kids Wrestling. I am sure someone can fill me in right after my post. How is the state tourney funded?

Why exclude them based on age? Some of them won't be mature enough to handle state at any age, some will be at 6, let the parents decide. Sure they will cry when they lose, a lot of them do this every weekend if they lose, this isn't just 6 and unders.

From a common sense standpoint why would any organization exclude 1654 members/participants for any reason from attempting to show the skills they have learned in front of the big crowd? I really enjoy watching the six and unders try.

I hadn't thought about it till I reviewed my post but many girls might have a better chance of winning at the six and under age now also. Don't know if this is sexist or not but many don't participate past age 10 when there seems to be a change in strength between the sexes.

Everything that is done to encourage any wrestler breeds more insight/interest about my son's sport, that only encourages more to join. We only get better as the competition gets better. Wrestling in Kansas appears hampered by the regulations from KSHAA about participation in tournaments during the athletes athletic season.(I know that is a whole other issue) Is eliminating 6 and unders at state in their own age bracket another method of hampering? I know my son would be discouraged this year if I told him he had to bump up to 10 and under to make it to state.

How would it affect the interest if we told our 16 year olds we had decided to allow 18 year olds and they would have to bump up also or wrestle in a combined 16 and 18 year old bracket?

I really don't know what will happen, I would vote for 6 and under wrestlers and 16 and under at our State in Topeka or anyplace it had to be to accomodate all of them.

I have rambled on long enough. Hope everyone has a successful end of the year. My son/family has really enjoyed learning the little we do about wrestling. Discussion only breeds new ideas.

KS has the advantage over MO in regards to allowing 6U wrestlers to move up to 8U to compete in State competition. In MO, you can't compete in State until the wrestler is 7 years old.

The question that I have is this, "What makes people think that not allowing 6U wrestlers to compete in a 6U State format is going to reduce the pressure placed upon the 6U wrestlers". Meaning that if you have a parent who is living through their child, it's not going to make a difference rather you have 6U attending State. The parent will still have the wrestler move up to 8U to compete at State, the parent will still attend National events; the parent will still train the wrestlers hard and etc. Nothing is going to change for that wrestler other than they can't compete at State unless they move up an age group.

6U wrestlers deserve the same opportunity as all the other age groups. The parents spend the same money and time as the older kids and they shouldn’t be left out because people are concerned about the pressure placed upon the 6U wrestlers. Depending on the parent’s attitude, the pressure may or may not be applied on the wrestlers.

Seems to me like the issue is on the parents. The only way to relieve this problem for 6U wrestlers is to not allowing wrestling for kids under 7 years old. Ridiculous of course.

How can anyone person say that these kids don't deserve to goto Topeka and wrestle in the state torunament at 6 years old? These kids work just as hard (IF NOT HARDER) than 8,10,12,14,and 16 do. These kids should get a far shot at the state title as anyone else does at there respective weight class. You coaches and parents that disagree are just flat wrong because if you let them as a coach you do get as much credit cause everyone knows that kid is gifted and for you parents, you just need to let them wrestle with out worry for there safty. Isn't that what the coaches and refs are for?

Mr. Furches,
You made reference to one of my responses that said the older kids would be left out if the 6u are allwed at stae. You replied that this was never mentioned, yet your earlier post you said we needed a single jr.high and high school division, wouldn,t this exclude some kids who make it now? wouldn't this put a limit on the number of older kids making it? I also said the older kids deserve to be in the big room because they earned it, you replied that this was never brought up, but you brought it up in your earlier post when you said mats could be moved in the weigh in room for the older kids. It seems you don't even know what you are saying from one post to the next. Does USA Wrestling have a 6U division at National Tournaments, I don't think so,is there a 6U freestyle division at Nationals,I don't think so. The only way 6U should be allowed if is there is room for all of the older kids we accept now. And if anyone wrestles in the weigh in room it should be the 6U,Let them earn the right to wrestle in the big room, I'm sorry but a second year novice wrestler should not bump a kid who has been working and only has a few chances left to wrestle in the big room. 6U have many more years to make it to the show, let them learn the sport, I personaly don't want to miss a kid wrestle on my team that I have been working with for 5 or more years to watch to novice 6 year olds roll around on the mat.

As a coach I dont lump all kids in the same bunch. I judge on individual ability. There are kids out there who have wrestled at state as 6 year olds why not keep them out of the tournament altogether? The main reason would be that they deserved to be there or they would'nt have made it out of subs or districts. Thats the same reason why a 7 yr makes 8& un or an 11 makes 12 & un state they earn it because they worked for it. My 6 yr was excited about state until I told him he would be wrestling 8& un. This discouraged him the exact thing we dont want to do to a kid the last I checked. There are many 6yr olds wrestling at big tournaments like the Classic, Liberty Nationals & Tulsa. Why havent they dropped this age group from the format if the big multi-state and national tournament's atmosphere is so bad for 6's? I think they deserve a chance at state. It will not affect my kids one is 6 the other 11.
Jon Murray
PWC

If a 6 year old can make it in 8U thaen he deserves to be there if he can't well better luck next year, There are a very few 6U kids who can compete for the most part they roll around and cry, we don't need this at state. How many other states have a 6U division at their tournament, i bet it's not very many, I don't think this will ever get passed anyway it gets voted down every year because the majority of coaches understand that they don't need to be there.

bubowski nice to see you put the importance of the kids you coach in order of years you've spent with them. That should make the parents of any novice you coach happy.
Jon Murray
PWC

We work with all of the kids equally, We split our practices and have the novice kids practice then the advanced kids practice. What i"m saying is a 5-6 year old kid is a novice wrestler and the state tournament is not a novice tournament,I spend many Sundays going to novice tournaments and leave my family at home so these kids have someone to coach them. But state is for the advanced kids who have been working hard for a few years learning the sport and competing at our states prmiere tournament. I tell my parents that Liberty, Wichita, Tulsa is not a place for novice wrestlers that's what Sunday novice tournamnets are for. At state an advanced kid that has been working hard is more important than a 6U novice wrestler, because it's a tournament for the states best wrestlers just as Sunday novice tournaments are for our states beginner wrestlers,You can ask any one of my parents and I'm sure they will tell you we spend a lot of time with novice kids teaching them the sport but that is not what the state tournament is for

bubowski, don't feel much like arguing the point right now but will try to present myself better. I know what I am saying from one post to the next. Seems like others do as well, maybe not. I was just trying to show that there are solutions to the so-called issues that continue to come up year after year. A Jr. High Division and a High School Division would still provide the opportunities to all kids at those ages. All I was trying to do was show that there are solutions to the "problems" or issues that many come up with.

Regarding kids that would be left out, older kids, - this is an argument that many make. I was only referring to comments that others have made here and in the past. I don't think that any kids should be left out based on age, nor should they be forced into an unfair situation based on age as we currently do by having our 6 & Under’s wrestle up. They and their families pay their dues, give them the same opportunity. By the way, remember, there already is a 6 & Under state, it is just that they are not at the same location. I say give them the same chance. Let the wrestling community as a whole celebrate their accomplishments in the same way that the under 8’s do.

Last comment here, I don't take the "Can't" attitude, I prefer to "brainstorm" and look at various options that allow for a "can" attitude. Will there be kids left out with some formulas? There may be, but have them left out due to ability, not age, especially if they are paying members. I would also like to see someone please address the other issues regarding who has the right to make these decisions. I am for having the majority of the membership make the decision, are you and others who are opposed to the 6 & Under state willing to let them have that voice? Every paying member should have a voice. I also know for a fact, because I have heard it, people say that they would never vote for a 6 & Under because they disagree with it. I guess I have a problem with that attitude because I believe in representative government. Those voting have a responsibility to vote the way the majority of those they represent desire and wish. Otherwise, we don’t have a representative form of government, we have a dictatorship and that is something I am opposed to when you have people paying dues.

I may be mistaken but I thought those tournaments did have a 6 & Under division, as did USJOC and The Cotton Bowl, Brute Classic, all of which are USA Sanctioned Tournaments. Also, I have seen some 6 & Under wrestlers that I would consider advanced in their skills and ability. Kids like Boo Dryden, Dakoda Rodd, CJ Menges, any of the 6 and Under Deshazer boys, and I could go on and on with these kids from Kansas who have wrestled 6 & Under on a National level.

It's the coaches that run the clubs, the coaches that give all of their time even when they don't have a kid wrestling, without coaches there would be no wrestling. kids join estaalished clubs and follow the rules set forth by that club therefore the clubs should vote as they see fit, they are the ones that are going to be coaching at state not parents.

As I said there are a few 6U kids that are able to compete at a high level out of the 1654 6U kids I bet you can't name 20 that can compete at a premiere tournament out of the 1654 6U at least 1600 of them are novice wrestlers. If I'm not mistaken the Deshazers placed at state at 6U, That's great for a few of the kids but a majority of them can't. When my boy was 5 he didn't wrestle at subs when he was 6 he made it to state out of the 25 6U kids on our club we have 1 that has a chance to make it, the rest are strctly novice and most of them won't go to subs until next year. I have been in wrestling for 25 years I wrestled as a 6 year old and didn't make it to state but that made me want it even more and I worked harder and made it at 7, It was more special because I really had to work for it. If a kid is 6 and is advanced great let them compete but those kids are few and far between. As for a couple of the 6 year olds you mentioned I can remember them trying to make weight doing excercises and running at the state weigh in crying with their coaches yelling at them, is this want we want for our 6 year olds. Let them have fun and learn the sport before we put them in the pressure cooker.

There is a great article on this forum called Dad-dash-coach. I was thinking about some of the comments that I had read here and was wondering, is it really for the kid or is it for the Dad-dash-coach? Or Mom-dash-coach?

I didn't say that wrestling is for the coaches the point i'm trying to get across is the way the state is set up the coaches and or the club presidents vote at the meetings. They vote as to what they think is best for the state. This is just like our government you vote for a representative to uphold your views on certain subjects. If you don't like the way your club thinks things should be run then join a different club. I have discussed this issue with our parents and they are all in agreement that most 6U don't need to wrestle at state. We have 1 6 year old that has a chance to make state and he is the only one going to subs. Parents should live by the decisions the coaches and club make.

First of all, this is Mrs. Lemon. I do not coach but my husband does. Just clarifying. What I was saying is that there are parents who take winning way too serious. I will never forget my first wrestling tournament I attended as a parent. My son was just 6 and I remember thinking that we had made a very bad decision because it disguisted me seeing parents yelling at their kids, kids crying and being dragged off of the mat by their "coach". He is now 13 but I have two other boys aged 6 and 4. Last week, my 6 year old son lost a very close match and so was a little teary eyed at the end. While I was telling him what a good job he did, the other parent was congratulating his son on "making that boy cry". My son should be having fun. He should not be worried about winning or getting a medal. I just feel that to place such pressure at such a young age can do more harm than good. There was another article last year in Sports Illustrated that talked about the decline of junior high and high school sports in this country. They found that the biggest reason was that parents were pushing their kids way too soon and way too much. In the past, most kids would not be on traveling teams or be going on 8 to 10 hours drives every weekend just for a sport. Most students did not even start playing a sport until they were in junior high. The article Dad-dash-coach also talks about this. Now, you feel that if you do not have your kid participate in sports at an early age-they will be behind their peers. It just seems so crazy that we are talking about 6 year old kids. You talk about how great it is for the kid and that the kids deserve to be at the big show. I also believe that kids deserve to be at the big show too but later-when they have matured a little bit. What damage does it do to a child to have to wait until they are 8 years old?

Mike,

I do not have problem with a vote of the membership. But you would need to change the Kansas Kids Wrestling Bylaws First. I think it says one vote per club at the state meeting. It would be a terrible mess to get anything voted on or done at these annual meetings if you let the entire membership vote on every issue. That is why each club sends a representative. Although, not all clubs attend - therefore they do not get a vote if they are absent. There is plenty of information avaiable ahead of time and each club can send there representative to the meeting. Would your proposed vote for be for every kid or one vote for every family with kids wrestling. I am not a betting man but I have been informally polling parents of my club who have high school wrestlers and 6 and under kids currently. I haven't found the support that you have for this issue.

Coach Sean

READ THE MEMBER SECTION AT THE END OF THIS
CHARTERED CLUBS ONLY ONE VOTE PER CLUB. THAT VOTE WAS 70% APPOSED 30% FOR 6 & UNDER STATE TOURNAMENT

SECTION I: BY-LAWS ARTICLE I – NAME, ADDRESS, FISCAL YEAR1. 1. Name – The name of the organization shall be United States of America Wrestling Association – Kansas, Inc. Kids Division. In addition, the organization may conduct its affairs under such trade name(s) as may be approved by its Executive Council, including but not limited to the name USAWA-Kansas Kids.2. 2. Address – The principal office of the organization in the state of Kansas shall be located at the current Executive Director's address.3. 3. Fiscal Year – The fiscal year of the organization shall begin on the first (1st) day of September in each year.ARTICLE II – OBJECTIVESThe objectives of USAWA-Kansas Kids shall be:1. 1. To create opportunities in wrestling for competitors in the 16 and under age groups along with their coaches and teachers, and to encourage their continued participation in the sport as they advance beyond this level.2. 2. To place control and direction of the USAW-Kansas wrestling program in the hands of those who are working in the program.3. 3. To help develop responsible wrestling administrators from the ranks of the USAW-Kansas wrestling programs on the local, state and national levels who will provide responsible leadership and direction to their membership.4. 4. To develop an attitude of sincere concern among all USAWA-Kansas wrestling coaches towards the improvement of all levels and aspects of wrestling from elementary through Olympic levels of competition.5. 5. To provide channels of communication within Kansas and between the various states, furthering the exchange of ideas and experience, both favorable and unfavorable, so USAW-Kansas wrestling programs in any area can learn from, profit from, and expand upon the efforts of such programs in all other areas.6. 6. To assist in developing strong and enthusiastic USAW-Kansas wrestling programs throughout Kansas, and to assist in those activities which can best be developed on a statewide basis.7. 7. To develop an attitude of unity within the state of Kansas toward program development and achievement and to increase the positive attitudes of educators, wrestlers and the general public toward the art of science of wrestling.8. 8. To provide channels for democratic representation in the various national organizations and national activities which involve the wrestlers and coaches of this age group.9. 9. To establish general patterns of organization and objectives within the state of Kansas, providing continuity of effort as wrestlers and coaches step forward into more advanced phases of wrestling and in turn are succeeded by newcomers to the USAWA-Kansas program.10. 10. To provide a statewide newsletter and other centrally produced publications of benefit to USAW-Kansas programs in all areas.ARTICLE III – MEMBERS1. 1. Chartered Clubs – USAWA-Kansas Kids shall include Kansas clubs, known as chartered clubs sanctioned by USA Wrestling, which meet the prescribed requirements as follows:a. a. A chartered club in USAWA-Kansas Kids must be open to all persons active in the advancement of Kansas wrestling and willing to accept the objectives outlined in this constitution.b. b. A club may become chartered by filing an application and paying the annual fee, if any, to USAW-Kansas, Inc.2. 2. Voting Membersa. a. Each chartered club whose charter was issued by USAW-Kansas, Inc. during the previous fiscal year (September 1 - August 31) and whose USAWA-Kansas Kids dues, if any, were paid for that year is a voting member.b. b. Each voting member shall have only one vote.

Very well said Mrs. Lemon what people are forgetting is that we are talking about 4-6 year olds they are still babies. Let them have fun and maybe they will still be in the sport at 16, It seems to me that a majority of parents don't want their 6U kids at state, It seems to me like a few ultra competitive people are trying to push this issue and it's ridiculous. Could you imagine the chaos if every cardholder in kansas had a vote on every issue, the whole organization would fall apart, what a ridiculous idea. In baseball 6 year olds are t-ball, in my city they don't even keep score, everyone gets to bat 3 times, have fun and learn how to play, wrestling should be the same what's the point in winning state at six if your done with the sport at 12.

if the folks in charge do not think 6U's are ready for the "Big Dance" then why allow them wrestle at 8u at all? How do you seperate maturity and talent? Just because they qualify does NOT mean they are mature enough to handle it!
Also, what about the 8u kids who are sitting at home on their big day because the 6u are allowed to wrestle up.
a comment about the 6u state tournament; it is a good tournament and at least a good idea, but it in no way, shape or form takes the place of the topeka tournament. Most brackets are huge (32/64 man) and it is very difficult to place. We had a little guy (43#)in our club who qualified on Saturday for state and did not even place on Sunday. Two years ago another one of our guys had to wrestled 8 matches and placed fifth. All in one day! My son wrestled 7 matches and did not place two years ago. That same year he placed third at Wichita classic.
My son is in his first year of 8u and I think 6u should be allowed to enter the State tournament. Just know your kid. Some kids are ready at 6 and some may be ready at 12 or 13. I think it is wrong to generalize and say that ALL 6u are not ready. And I will say it again, if that is what the authorities think then why do they allow them in at all? It is a little schizophrenic in my humble opinion.

It sounds like the 6U championships need to be done away with also then. I don't think this issue will ever pass because there is not enough support for it. most parents are sensible enough to know that 4-6 year olds need to have fun and not be pushed into an ultra competeive tournament at a young age. we can argue this for ever but it's a mute point because it gets voted down by a large margin year after year.

bubowski wrote:
most parents are sensible enough to know that 4- 6 year olds need to have fun and not be pushed into an ultra competeive tournament at a young age.

Then why do we let them in the state tournament?????
If this topic is passed over at the state body meeting because it requires so much time for discussion then it seems that it IS a popular and not "mute topic". Maybe a special committee needs to be formed to develop some feasible solutions and/or ideas.

Maybe we shouldn't let them at the state tournament I know Missouri doesn't. There are a handful of kids at 6 that are mature for their age and can handle it, but mostly this is an ego trip for parents I see it all the time, dads pushing their kids to the point of tears it's ridiculous. It won't hurt a youngster to wait until they are 7 to compete maybe they will appreciate it more. If you want it so bad start your own club then you will have a vote on the issue. If this passes a lot of 4-6 year olda are going to be pushed to hard by their coach-dads, just look at open tournaments now the dad slash coach at the 6U mats act like fools, I know I have one on my team and I don't even let him coach his little one anymore. This system has worked for years but now their are a bunch of parents that think they have 6 year old olympians
and they need a state medal. Is this for the parent or the kid. I will always vote no on this and the parents on our club support me 100%. Give them a chance to mature a little and have fun, remember it's for them not for you.

bubowski, not every coach/dad is on a ego trip or acting like fools matside.The attack on anyone supporting this issue is pretty small minded. If we ever meet you can explain to my son why he dose not deserve to be at state. Good luck.
Jon Murray
PWC

The answer is simple he's not old enough, wait till next year young man and make it in 8U, work hard in the off season learn the sport and become better. You have many more years to make it. Your whole wrestling career is ahead of you, go to state have your dad take you down on the floor and find out what it's all about and next year you will be better prepared and hopefully you will do well.

I sit here reading that there are a bunch of parents who think they have 6 yr old olympians. Maybe some 6's are having fun competing. I also run a split practice and tonight was game night. We play dodgeball. My 6 year old pulled off his shirt and was in the middle of our advanced boys getting hit and loving it. Dont assume to say that all little kids are wrestling because their parents make them. My son has been matside since he was one and being rough housed by older boy's and has always loved it. Im sorry you believe me to be trying to make olympians that is not my intention. Even if 6's were allowed next year he will be in 8's so thats not the point. I dont believe he would win state(dont tell him)I just know he likes to compete at everything. Simple things like 1st to put on his seatbelt. Where did I go wrong, I've pushed him to far.
Jon Murray
PWC

"Last week, my 6 year old son lost a very close match and so was a little teary eyed at the end. While I was telling him what a good job he did, the other parent was congratulating his son on "making that boy cry". My son should be having fun. He should not be worried about winning or getting a medal."


Unfortunately, there are a few fools to give us "6 & under parents" a bad name. But. . .there are those of us who are trying to teach our young wrestlers; sportsmanship(win or lose), and a few life skills. We also do NOT promote the talk that the discribed above parent did. There are also ALOT of idiots in the upper age divisions who tell their wrestlers much worse things.In every age division there are these extremists. So do not assume that all 6&under parents are out to "live through them" in wrestling.
I wanted to bring this up. How many of these 12, 14, & 16&under State Champs or even State Placers were once 6 & under? Did they have the excitement about winning that JMurray has talked about??? I bet they did. Or at least the champs and placers I know did and still do.

Grizzlyfan,

I do realize we have some parents and coaches in all age divisions that get carried away. Trust me - I can bring the intensity to the mat. We have a unwritten rule that we try to have someone else besides dad, mom, and/or close relative in the corner during match time. It doesn't always work out if we have multiple matches going on and we are scrambling to get a coach matside - but for the most part it helps keep the personal family stuff out. From a technical standpoint I know my son is more likely to take my advice in a practice environment rather than in the heat of battle. Generally, this holds true with other kids during a match. I can be all the way on the other end of the gym when my son is wrestling and I'll bet he can still hear me. If he can not hear me everyone else in the gym can. I think he needs speakers in his head gear - like they do with NFL football quarterbacks. That may not be a good idea - because sometimes he and some of our other coaches give me a dirty look after a match - mainly after a loss. What's their problem? I know he was trying but those simple mistakes were killing me. I am not going to let my son drive at the age of 14 just because he wants to or he thinks it is fun. I am still apposed to the 6 & under state. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect both views. You all know mine. I hope we have enough hard drive and the computer doesn't crash - with all these posts

Coach Sean

I agree. However I must say that any poll conducted on the internet is not scientific. If someone really wants to do an accurate poll, well you would have to first obtain a list of all of the members in Kansas, Pick a random sampling more than 100 and call them up. This cost a lot of money and is very time consuming I know. But it is the only way to scientifically do it. People who are obsessed with wrestling (like me) are the ones that check the forum everyday. Most people in the wrestling community do not. If you did a scientific poll, I think you would be surprised at the results.

where is mike juby in all this what does he think about this

It seems that this subject of 6 and under is and will always be a topic of intrest. It seems very simple on how a person can deal with this. If they are good enough, then throw them to the wolves and let them fight it out. This may seem harsh and it probably is. I have done this with my son. At 5 he qualified, at 6 he placed. Yes, I want it for him but I as a parent can only give him traning and support. If the kid wants it then he or she will do what it takes to make it. If it is the parents that want it and not the kid then it will be noticed on how far they go. State is a big word in the wrestling family. It means the world to alot of kids and probably too much to parents. But, the kids that get a warm feeling when it is said are the ones that will be the ones to make it. Just one opinion.

Bubowski
Been thinking on this topic you wrote most 6 year olds just roll around on the mat and cry. You also wrote you would'nt want 6's running off weight while coaches were screaming at them. You wrote its just an ego trip for a 6 to be at state that they arnt ready. Your suggestion on telling my son why he didnt deserve to wrestle at state was he wasnt ready, not his time, improve learn more. Then you wrote when my son was 6 he made it to state. How could someone so opposed to 6's at state ever have put that kind of "pressure" on his own son?
I feel as though out of 1600 6's we could come up with 16 wrestlers in each weight to make for competitive wrestling.
If all 6's are novice and should wrestle on sunday at novice tournaments than we should also elimanate them from our saturday evevnts and only let in older wrestlers we feel have enough experiance. Does that sound fair to anyone?
It sure dos'nt to me. But I may just be on an "ego trip". We all have our own oppions yours seems to be conflicting.
Jon Murray
Parsons Wrestling Club

I said some kids are able to handle it but they are few and far between. I felt my son was ready at six and he was he made it to state. Most kids are not ready, Please read the entire post before commenting onwhat I wrote. If your six year old is ready take him to state, if he's not leave him at home. How did your club vote on this issue when it was brought up. I have never forced my son to cut weight if he does it he does it on his own. Most six and under matches are more comic relief than wrestling, The bottom line is as a whole they don't need to be there, If they are good enough let them make it in 8U. I'm sorry your six year old can't wrestle 8U and make it. If he could you wouldn't be so supportive of this issue. I feel I have brought my son through wrestling the right way, He's a young 12 now and doing well 18-4, I have never put undue pressure on him to win, but this is what will happen with a bunch of inexperienced wrestling parents throwing 4-6 year olds out there. You see it at every tournament, we don't need it at state, I tell my parents that their first and second year wrestlers are better of wrestling on Sunday, Do they all listen- NO they don't but that's their choice. The state tournament is already crowded enough and long enough without adding to it by allowing 6U to wrestle. It seems like you have a problem with me for stating my opinion, oh well, Ill live and I will continue to vote no on this as long as I have a vote, which will be until my son is unable to wrestle in kids anymore. If you poll most coaches and club directors they will vote this down by a large margin as they have done every year( last year it was 70% no). Live with the rules the way they are your boy has a long wrestling career ahead of him he has many more years to make it to state.

Maybe all the crybabys are people like bubowski and others that are not seeing the fun in wrestling in the biggest tournament in the state. Get off your high horses and get the chip off your shoulder and let these kids wrestle and have fun. If they cry they cry sometime somewhere they will have to get past that.

bubowski
my 12 year old never wanted to try for state when he was 6. My 6 year old wanted to try state just not in the 8& under. As I stated in a earlier post he will be moving up next year and I know 6's would not be added this year so this is not for his benifit. Next year I will vote for 6's. Was tied up coaching football and did'nt attend state meeting last fall.I do live with the rules but its my right as an American to talk of change. By the way I have no more problem with your opinion though you do mine.
Jon Murray
PWC

I have been sitting back a reading these posts and realize there are a lot of passionate wrestling people in Kansas. I have always voted against six and under for state because it always includes talk of reducing weight classes for fourteen and sixteen year olds. A perfect example of this is a kid from our team he has been in wrestling for 8 years and is dedicated to the sport. He has been a 4 time state placer and is a freshman in high school now. He weighs only 82lbs and was forced to compete at 103 in high school. He told me the other day he will be glad when kids start so he can wrestle people his size again. If Kansas can find a facility big enough to keep the 14 and 16 weight classes as they are now and add six and under I would vote for it in a minute, but Topeka is not big enough for this and I would hate to take oppurtunities away from kids like the on mentioned above. Until a different and bigger facility is found I will keep voting no. I am sorry if this offends anyone but I don't think it is right to take away oppurtunities from one group to give to another. Do six year olds deserve to be there, yes they do but under the current arrangement it is not feasable to include everyone. Maybe we need to start looking at different facilities to hold the state tournament. If anyone has a solution please post it and let the body vote on it.

Tom Baughman
Pleasant Ridge Wrestling

Tom
I agree I woldnt want to take away an oppertunity for any kid. My stance has been only that they deserve a place. Our club has a couple of freshman that I look forward to having back in our practice room soon. One is in a similar posistion.He has been trying to gain weight for 103 in hs and was a 2 time state champ and mutiple time placer in kids. I'm sure he feels similar. I just have a hard time understanding the idea that they dont belong. I understand lack of space I've been there. I dont have a solution. That would take a better organizer than me.
Jon Murray
PWC

My youngest son is 6U. Boy would he love it if his state tourney was the same day as his big brother and all the friends he has in our club. In any sport there is a "Big" game or play-off that we all grew up hoping we would make it too. These little guys deserve the same season finally that any of the other age groups do. I havent been to the 6U state tourney yet, but I hear they do a stellar job. Good on you Ottowa.

we have a 6 and under brackets at all the tournements why not have it at the state tournement. Why dont we have it maybe on a trial basis try it next year and see where it goes from there

Where does it stop? 4 & Under? Then someone will want individual age divisions. Should High School have a JV State? We already have 4 different high school divisions. Where does it stop?

Coach Sean

As someone said at the last state meeting "it stops where common sense begins"!

At state, the building is for the most part full of NOVICE wrestlers. Some may shine in high school most will not. Even smaller portion will wrestle in college. The 8,10,12,14 and even 16 and under KIDS are NOVICE wrestlers. The coaches fall into the same percentages if not lower. So why exlude the YOUNGER novice wrestlers when they have the same passion for the sport as the older novice wrestlers and NOVICE Coaches.

If Coach Sean really has a talent for dividing wrestling talent he would probably soon move on and get paid for his his weak opinion.

I just finished my french toast instead of pancakes for breakfast. For those of you who think that I am moving on - I just moved in June so I think we're staying put. I have been with this program for 12 years and at the banquet if they tell me to leave I'll leave. As far a my dedication and coaching with the kids program - I have not been told my that I am on the chopping block. My intentions are to fully continue to help build our kids program along with several other coaches in our program. I talked with 10 of our coaches yesterday at Topeka and at the High School regionals about this very topic. I guess they all have a weak opinion. Where would we be at if you have ten kids (6&Under) - of those ten kids 7 really really really like wrestling and 3 kids burn out by the time they are 10 & and under - is it worth it - not in our cheesey weak opinion. Burn out means they never come back - they won't watch it, practice it, and even talk the sport down to their peers and adults. The lost of those 3 kids are the ones I want to keep involved. I am not worried about the ones with the passion.

Smokeycabin - Coach Sean McCarthy

Great point Sean. Yesterday at Regionals how many JV wrestlers were there cheering on the Varsity team. Ask any of them how HARD they worked at wrestling this year. I know most of them worked as hard as the Varsity but they don't have issues of no JV State! How about the Freshman wrestling, most of them were NOVICE wrestlers, first time wrestling. There was no sort of league championship for them. They worked hard, learned a sport and God willing had a good experience so they will come back next year! They were also there cheering on the Varsity. (To a regional championship - go Aquinas!)

By the way, my 8 year old did attend the 6 and under championships in Ottawa. They did a great job. Then the next weekend he went to State to watch his brother wrestle (and slide down the hill on cardboard)! If your 6 year old doesn't have an older sibling wrestling at state why not just take them to watch the team on the second day - it is a fun event to watch, especially the finals.

Also, I'm not sure why people would think that Sean and his cheesy opinion would leave the STA club. If you asked the wrestling community state wide that a loss of Sean McCarthy would be a huge blow to Kansas Wrestling. He is not going anywhere, at least until my 8 year old is done with kids!

Another cheesy opinion by wrestlingmom

Are many of these novice freshman going to try for the state tournament that is for the advaned kids?
Jon Murray
PWC

Actually most of the true Novice freshman wrestlers are working out for baseball tryouts now! In fact I will check this out at our kids practice tomorrow night and let you know. I myself tried to get many of the first timers in freshman wrestling to give subs a try but most were ready for something else. Most of the JV wrestlers who have wrestled for years are going to subs and will likely make it to state.

I thought it would be interesting to look at an old discussion and see how people's attitudes have changed as their kids have gotten older and or moved out of 6 and under.

This is basically the same thread from 2005. I focused on those who had 6 and under kids in 2005 and were lobbying for a six and under state and was going to see if they had changed their position in 2008.

Viewing their subsequent posting activity,it seems most of them, including the topic originator are no longer here. Most of them haven't posted since 2005. I don't think it is too much of a stretch to assume that they are no longer here because their children no longer wrestle.

Where's the thread windjammer?

Looks at the first 9 pages.

24/7

thanks 24/7; kind of slow this morning!

dont the jv wrestlers have a state. they have the kids state. Im pretty sure I heard more than one person say that the jv kids move on to kids state. I know I didnt imagine that. I know someone said they get a 2nd chance as to zero for the 6 and unders unless you make them wrestle against the 8 and under. on and on and on and on and on this will go. This goes out to Ottawa. Please make your tournament and listen to the ideas to make it even better. If you need some help I am pretty sure there are plenty of us out there that would pitch in. Yes I am offering my help. I think its great you have started it. I have heard good and bad things about how you did it. I will not go there. All I know is I went there last year and my son cant wait to go this year. I really do think it needs to be before high school state and possibly a 2 day tournament if you make those big brackets or go to some type of qualifier. I would like to see it more centrally located for those out in western ks that have to travel 5 -8 hours on a sunday.

I have read the posts from the various threads pertaining to 6u state and have come to the conclusion that some people just don't have a clue. I am sick of all the boo hoo it's not fair posts, lifes not fair if you don't like it go to your club director, the state board and seek answers.Maybe start your own club so you can go to the state meetings and vote on these issues.The bottom line is most people in the state think 6u are still babies and should learn how to wrestle and compete before attempting to win a state title.If you don't agree thats fine,go through the proper channels to change it, but enough of the juvenile it's not fair posts, people that have been around wrestling for years are laughing at you guys, get a clue.

as well as we laughing at your responses every time. you say the same thing over and over and over. you may baby your 6 and under but not all parents do. your right life isnt fair only if we make it unfair. its not about the titles. i cant figure out why you still think that after i dont know how many posts say that its not. its about giving the chance to compete against other 6 and unders just like all the other classes above them. so if you dont like it then stop replying and get on with your older kids. have a nice day.

IF YOUR SICK MAYBE YOU NEED SOME COLD MEDICINE IT ALWAYS HELPS WHEN I AM SICK. as for get a clue i need one me and my wife has been playing that game clue, you know the one and i need a clue to win. and as far as the ones who have been around wrestling for so long are laughing at these people for there opinion well who's the juvenile, maybe they were watching the bad boy's of comedy not reading these post.

You didn't even read my post. If you want to change it your not going to do it on here. I don't care if you baby your 6 year old or not they are still babies.Maybe one day you will mature a little bit and realize that, but you are the laughing stock of the forums at this point. Really you need to pick another avenue to wage your fight because with every post you make you are losing what little credibility you had to start with.

i am laughing also hee hee ha ha and i am just making a joke don't get postal it's all in fun is that not what we tell our children.

seeing how everyday there are more and more people that actually want the 6 and under i dont see that. maybe some other people are changing there mind a little bit but even those would agree to a stand alone 6 and under. I am also ok with that. I have talked to several of the ones that do not want the 6 and under. I have even agreed on some things and they have agreed on some of the good things about it. eventually we will all agree on something and there will be a stand alone 6 and under at the least. then we can all be happy grown ups right.

you think some one is losing credibility due to a topic of this what happened to some ones opinion, and maybe you are laughing at these people or me but thats your stance not every one is laughing unless you took a poll on that. i am just a dumb owner of a roofing company i never had credibility to start with so i don't see the point of having it now.

and yes i did read your post, but insulting the people for there opinion is wrong.

What I'm trying to tell you is that your beating a dead horse, your not going to change anything by getting on this forum and complaining. If you want change take a petition to the state board, attend the meeting, take part in the discussion. In order to make the changes you seek that is the only way it will happen. Do you understand now.

damn nix you make me laugh. i am going to bed and sleep on it. I needed that tonight. My son had 2 basketball games and scored like 15 and 18 points. I think he is going to be burned out of wrestling and start playing basketball next year. Even though he keeps asking when state wrestling is. see you all there.

all kidding aside, like beeson said a sanctioned tournamnent in february for 6 and under a stand alone tournament. it would be just like attending a weekend tournament but state. no presure on the kids unless you are one of those parents witch is wrong MY OPINION ONLY NOT A FACT. and let these little wrestler compete and have fun.

I agree with that too. I have tried to state that in a few of my opinions. I do agree that it needs to be earlier and for those that want to continue then they can move up and wrestle the 8 year olds and get their butts kicked at that time. ok not all but most.

yes rassler i do understand your point and i agree it's like beating a dead horse. i am just having a little fun i am bored and no disrespect is intended. and as for that i am done with the 6 and under state topic unless i am trying to be funny, time to move on to bigger and better things nice to debate with you

congats to your boy bock tell him to score 20 next time.

Okay ... (deep breath again) please make sure all your posts are positive!

come on randy nobody is getting out of hand. I think maybe we all need to take a deep breath and sleep on it and we can talk about this I guess at the next state meeting. its all opinion and everyone is entitle to their opinion. if those that dont like the idea of 6 and unders then maybe they shouldnt read the posts because its going to happen whether it be with the older kids or a stand alone. we already have it now with 2 times the fun. good night john boy. dont let the bed bugs bite.