6 yr olds

Of all the talk about having a 6-under state tournament, it's simply making me wish that my 6-58lb boy would have the desire to keep going. We have been to 12 tournaments this year and he typically does well. The last couple of tournaments every time he comes up against a solid kid, he starts crying and you all know what that leads to. An angry dad, mom, and young wrestler. Not a good mix for a 2-3 hour trip home! I have come to realize (with help from my wife of coarse) that maybe my son is wrestling for me now, instead of for himself, like he did earlier in the season. So now, we are done, and its killing me!!!
My point... Enjoy the time you have watching your kid wrestle, it could be over before you know it. I have asked several kind coach's, dads about what I can do about our situation, and the answear I always get is, HE IS 6 YRS OLD! I have thought long and hard about it, and they are right-thanks!

maybe there right maybe not, how many of these coaches and parents had 4,5,and 6 year old wrestlers at one time probaly alot of them now there saying there to young or it's because there 5 or 6.

some kids just do not want to wrestle yet, i know a 10 year old that started wrestling he was pretty good and quit he just did not want to wrestle and thats it, but you will have some one out there, say he was to young, the season was to long. Why when a kid quits somthing had to be wrong.

Only 12?

How many tournaments have some of you been going to? We started going to tournaments in December and if you go every Saturday that still is only 10 or 12. Do you go to two a week ( Sat. & Sunday) or are there others that you go to. I just don't know when you find time to go to more. We have only taken one week off and I don't think we have gone to more than 12.

Thanks.

We have been to 17 tournaments and have taken Dec 15th and March 1st off. If we go to both 6U States and qualify for 8U State, that will be another 6 tourneys (counting the Classic). If you start hitting the OK tournaments early, it's not hard to get to 12.

Before anyone starts telling me "that's too much," my boys plan out the tournaments for themselves and pick their weekends off.

who really knows what goes through a 6 year olds mind my kid has wrestled tough kids an won,lost and cried an gave up. i think it is all apart of growing up they all mature in so many ways

KMac, your 6 yr olds plan their own schedule and pick their own weekends off?????

24/7

My 6 year old can't pick his own socks! Don't get me started on where his darn shoe is.

Somebody needs to call SRS for that kid.

I hope you are KIDDING!!!

Both of my boys (11 and 7) get the tournament options presented to them about 2 weeks prior to the tournament. They decide for themselves if they want to wrestle the tournament or take the weekend off. There answer usually includes "will so-and-so be there?" because there are certain kids that they like to wrestle. They have chosen to take 2 weekends off and I had to push hard for them to NOT wrestle at Winfield last week.

CJA - Are you serious? Maybe the SRS will frown upon me spending time with my family and doing activities that WE enjoy!

24/7 - Was that really your post? Taking my statement and converting it into a question?

If they want to wrestle, we find somewhere to wrestle. And my 6 year old found out about a tournament called Panhandle Nationals from some other 6 year olds while we were at the Kickoff Classic in Tulsa. He asked me if we could go to it. I found the information on the website at 1:30 Sunday morning after we drove home from Tulsa and emailed the Tournament Director to inquire about a late entry, which was granted. So we spent our Thanksgiving Weekend in Amarillo, TX because he wanted to wrestle.

KMac-The title of this thread is 6U. So I was responding to your comment about a 6u kid making their own schedule and choosing their own weeks off questioning that a 5-6 year old could do that. No, more specifically implying there is no way a 5-6 year old could do that and the parent was scheduling not the kid.

24/7

24/7 So when you go to your 6 year old (if you do) and ask if he wants to wrestle at Derby in 2 weeks or skip that weekend, he can't answer you??? That is how it works in my house and if they want to take the weekend off, then we do. I encourage them to decide for themselves if they want to wrestle. Maybe that is part of the problem with all the posts about burn out.....the kids are told "We're wrestling at Derby tomorrow" and they didn't have any say.
Bottom line......go judge someone else because the way we choose tournaments has worked for us to this point and my kids feel like they have a say in when and where they wrestle.

No what I am saying first you make sure your 6 year old wants to go, then if he does you only let him go to a limited number of tournaments. 5-7 max!!!! Two points here 1-many, many people have who have been through it have tried to warn you and others, that even if they want to go to 12-17 tournaments don't let them they will burn out. Heck my 13 year old wants to stay up until 3am but I don't let him, because I am looking out for his longterm interest, he is only looking at what is fun now. I am not saying you are not trying to do what you think is fun and best for your kid, I am just saying you will very, very likely burn him out. 2-Whatever risk you are taking at burnout is worthless because the kids that are held back just a little and turned loose more at 8 or so will be equal to your 6 year old in wrestling ability by the time they are 9-10 and probably have more hunger to keep going.

I am sure you are a good person, I just think kids should not be making their own schedules, we should be with the input that they want to go. Kids should always have veto power if they do not want to go. Heck my kid would eat candy for every meal if I let them plan their own meals. And in anwer to others who have asked on other posts, no I did not take my son at 5-6 wrestle in national tournaments or go a bunch. He only played one night a week a practice and went to 3 tournaments as a 5 year old and 5 as a 6 year old.

I will always maintain it's your right to raise you child as you wish. Please take into consideration that people who have been through it are just trying to provide some insight that is hard to see when you are in the middle of the forest with a talented 6 year old that wants to go. But I am not judging you. You can do as you wish.

24/7

i agree with kmac, my boy is 5 and is 40 pounds and i told him our last weelend was this saturday in sterling unless he wanted to go to ottawa, i explained to him what ottawa is and he said dad lets go... so i think they can make up there minds maybe not all but some can.

I have said my piece I wish both MKac and nix well. I hope your kids do great!

24/7

I appreciate your feedback, but I guess I'm too stubborn to think that 4-5 tournaments is really WRESTLING. If my boys burn out and don't want to continue wrestling, it will be hard to take because I love it. There will always be other things that they can develop interest in. I don't encourage them to do anything with half effort. We travel for baseball, they play football, and when you mix in wrestling, the seasons just overlap each other. My older boy decided to sit out of baseball last year so that he could attend some wrestling camps and focus on it more. I didn't put up any fight.....he decided it for himself.

Like you said, we all have the best intentions at heart, but we can't all be right all the time either. To each his own!

My oldest did that last year CW. Remember? It was so bad he would pass out right before his matches. We couldn't figure out what his deal was until we sat him down and asked. He told us he didn't want to disappoint us so we pulled him out for the rest of the year and he came back this year strong and ready to go! Mom and Dad though had to remember to comfort him win or lose let him know we are proud of him and stop telling him all the time what he was doing wrong. Sometimes I wish there was a book to tell us how to handle this but there isn't. Tell your little one to hang in there.

nice job nix. I think all the 6 and unders should wrestle at the ottawa tournament. thats an experience they will not forget. win or lose. it might not even be the wrestling that they remember. might be just the time they spend with the other kids and family. but I bet you this they will remember the wrestling to even if its not on the college resume.

Bockman believe me by the time they are 16 they could care less about their 6u state experience, you will still be the one remembering it not them.

maybe bockman wants to remember it whats wrong with that, and how do you know the 16 year old won't remember. I still remember moving up from kindergarden to first grade, man i am still proud of that... i just wish i could remember where i left my kids yesterday.

i didnt have a state but i do remember wrestling at 6. I guess I am probably the only one in the world that remembers it.

oops some one is going to report that to the srs so i am sorry. I found them just now.

I take it you don't have a 16 year old, I do and he could care less who he beat or what he won at six, it just doesn't matter,He cares about what he is accomplishing today and trying to get into college. I think it's sad that people peak out at six and remember that the rest of their lives, Sorry guys but that is a really crappy life.

so my 6 year old cant think about it today since he is 6 years today. he does care who he wrestles and beats and loses to today. you might be right he may not care later but he does today.

You need to realize he is only six, he is still a baby, maybe he needs a little bit of guidance and advice from his parents. Maybe they can tell him that wrestling at six is about learning and having fun, and that he will get his chance to compete at state soon, He just has to wait like every one else did. Isn't that what parents are supposed to do. That is what I did with my son, He is 16 now and could care less if he went to state at six.

i am peaking mine out at 5 not 6 i just wish i would have peaked him out at 4. and rassler your probaly right my son probaly will not care at 16 either, but he is having fun now and is loving the sport of wrestling and i hope for a long time to come so i can keep up with these post. and i am just kidding about the peak at 4.

rassler you are right they do need guidance and yes it is about fun and yes as parents that is what we are for. but there is nothing wrong with a stand alone tournament to let the 6 year olds battle it out, as long as it is for fun. Now i know my boy won't win state, mmaybe place thats still a long shot but no presure on him as long as he is enjoying it we will go. if not we will end the season, just like that.

... and I was getting my hopes up! I have a Grandson who just turned 3 and he shoots a killer blast double on me!!

Not all 6U kids are created equal. I guess some of us are lucky enough to have ones that want to push on . . . for the love of the sport!!

Your boys are exceptional, but modesty is usually best, especially in wrestling.

I am not bragging on my kids, I am just saying that not all 6U are already burnt out . . . KMac, Bockman and I's boys are still excited about wrestling . . . so we too are still excited!!

And I don't think anyone is worried about a 6 year old being burned out before the end of their first season. Burnout usually occurs after attending 12+ tournaments year after year after year without some breaks in between. Most of this group of 6 year olds will not be wrestling by the time they are 12. The numbers show this to happen year after year. Some will drop out because they just didn't like the sport but a lot will drop out because they get tired of the sport every weekend: aka burnout.

You can't just ask your kids, most kids want to please their parents. So if they think you want them to say "yes! I want to go" that's what they will say even when that is not what they really want. That's why you see some parents shocked when their kid doesn't want to continue in a sport when they get to junior high or high school. To the parents, they are thinking "you use to tell me you wanted to go and you had fun but now you don't want to do it anymore. Why the change?" whereas the child has just grown up and is starting to insert more control over their own life and so feels he can finally say what he really wanted to say a long time ago. Hope this makes some sense.

mom4,

Very good post. I would add that burnout from wrestling is a combination of things. I love watching wrestling, and I loved to wrestle. My mom hated to watch wrestling (a little too rough for her I guess), and still doesn't like seeing my son wrestle. Whether you enjoy the sport or not as a spectator, the truth of the matter is that wrestling is brutal.

When I watch kids wrestle, I am amazed at the skill, finesse, strength, power, flexibility, balance, agility and sheer determination of these miniature "gladiators" (stole the term from my older brother). Yet, I still have to fall back on the term brutal to describe wrestling best. It is not easy, it is not pleasant, and it is not always fun. Don't get me wrong, kids should always have fun in youth sports. That being said, if any child has fun getting pulverized by a superior opponent, whether in practice or in a tournament, then they have something special going on that most kids don't.

I have watched my twelve year old wrestle since he was six. I have seen him have a lot of success, and I have seen him lose more than his fair share along the way as well. I have seen his arms, legs, neck and back get put in positions that are not natural. I have seen his lips and nose bleed and his face, knees and elbows get mat burns. When he was ten he missed three weeks of the season due to a shoulder injury. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

Every year around September, after soccer and baseball are over and the school year is well under way, I get the nerve up to ask him if he wants to wrestle again this year and if he still enjoys the sport. Every year, I hope and pray that his resounding answer is "yes". If he ever loses his interest and love for the sport, I don't want it to be because of something I did. His competition is already trying to give him a reason to quit every time he steps out on the mat.

The hardest thing for young wrestlers to do is to continue wrestling. Its not just when they are six, seven or eight, but all the way up until they start Jr High and High School. The easiest thing for these kids to do would be to pick up a basketball, run up and down the court, and try to put it in the hoop.

Oh WONDERFUL POST!!!!!

It sounds like you have been around so here is a question I would like your honest opinion....do you think it is harder for a wrestler who has immediate success at the age of 6 to still like wrestling if they can not sustain that success versus a kid who gradually improves over time? I'm asking honestly because I have seen it happen in our family and want to know if others have noticed it too.

My oldest boy did not win very many matches at all when he first started. In fact, we celebrated whenever we saw his name move on the front side of the bracket. But, each year, he would win a few more and then a few more. I vividly remember him winning his first tournament title when he was 10 years old (and it was in a 4-man round robin). We were so excited and it was a HUGE deal (you know calling grandparents, uncles, cousins, ect.). Now, he is wrestling in high school and has had many 30 win seasons. With my middle son it was almost exactly the opposite. He won his very first tournament he was in by pinning every opponent. In fact, he won most of the tournaments when he was 6. So the following year, he was moved up as a B wrestler and started to wrestle against the "toughest of the tough" kids often in the same brackets as the A wrestlers. It became a battle just to see him finish the season. He could not understand why he wasn't winning his matches anymore. There was a point where I felt like I was pushing him too much just to get him to keep trying and couldn't wait until the season was over. I am happy to say that after the past two years, he has finally seemed to turn the corner and now is starting to understand. But there is another boy in the club that is kinda going through the same thing.

It kinda relates to the 6 and under crowd. You have some kids who are winning easily at this age but what happens when the time comes and it starts to get tougher? When they move out of the "novice" category? Maybe it is better for a child to see success slowly and over time than all at once.

after the last year of 6 and under most of the kids will struggle every other year due to being on the young side of the age group. Yeah you have some kids that are good but most will fall down then when they get on the older side they will win again. My son is 7 now and wrestling 6 and under. he will move up to 8 and under next year and will fall down and take his lumps. he will win some and lose probably alot. then the next year he will be back on the older side and probably win quite a bit more than lose. I do agree that some of those kids that excel early will eventually get caught by the late bloomers. I talked this over with Sonny Manly who wrestled at Nebraska back in the day. He was a big 8 champ if you must know that lol. He told me its good to teach them a few moves and let them perfect them at the early age and until they perfect it dont show them all the fancy moves. The will learn something year after year and progress where as those that already know it will not progress like that. they hit that early and stay the same. now i know this is not every kid but it is majority.

"It sounds like you have been around"

mom4,

Funny you say that, I was on the very first Kids Federation Wreslting team in Belleville (KS) in 1973 at the age of eight. There were five of us (two of us eight, twins who were 9, and one of my older brothers who was twelve). All of us wrestled all the way through high school, (one of the twins won high school State one year), and although I qualified twice for State in high school, I was the only one who didn't win at least one match on the big stage.

I don't know for sure how to answer your question. I do believe that there aren't two kids exactly the same, and they all deal with wrestling in different ways. Back when my son was six, he only wrestled in novice tournaments, as he did when he was seven. He didn't want to step out on the mat his very first match, and after a little help from his mother, he went out and eventually pinned his opponent. By the third match that day, he looked like an old pro with his aggressive looking stance and finished the day by taking home the bracket. He won his second tournament that year and went on to win four out of the eight he wrestled in (I think). He won a few more his second year of novice. Since he started wrestling open tournaments when he was eight, he has only taken home one bracket although he has placed in a lot of tournaments. Most of his early success was due to natural ability and a good attitude (sometimes a bad attitude - he sure didn't take losing very well) for the sport.

I believe that his progression throughout his years wrestling has been positive. He has wrestled a lot of the same kids over the last seven years, and some of them have sure gotten a lot better (one young man he beat every match his first few years turned the table on him the last three, beating him five times last year and placed second in State). Last year was the true test as he did not win a match his first four tournaments and started 0-11. He finally got his first win in his fifth outing and was 1-13 at that point. The end of the story goes something like this: he went 13-8 the rest of the year, won seven of those matches agains kids he lost to earlier in the season, finished third in Subs, third in Districts, qualified for State for the first time in six years, and he even won his first match at State and got to wrestle on Sunday.

I am not sure to this day why he didn't at least mention giving up wrestling last year the way things started. I had to help him understand that he wasn't wrestling bad, he was just wrestling a lot of very good competition. In his case, he had above average success in his early years, had his share of losses as well as wins the last few years, and had the worst and best year of his career last year.

The one thing I do know, he is not one of the best wrestlers in his age/weight group in the state, but he is a pretty good wrestler. There is a chance he could miss making it to Districts for the first time since he was eight, but I don't think that it will destroy him. He has had a good balance of success as well as failure, as these things are often measured in wins and losses. I believe he will continue to plug away, get a little better, work a little harder, and when it is all said and done, he will be a pretty solid high school wrestler which is the most that his Mom and I could have hoped for.

This has probably sounded like me rambling on and on about my son. He is just one of many young wrestlers out there that all have to find there own way and are fortunate to learn many life lessons through their own unique experiences in wrestling. They need the support of their families and coaches through good times and bad, with one common goal - continue to improve, enjoy and appreciate their sport, and continue to wrestle as long as they can.

good luck to your boy at subs

Well, since I have started this post, I have realized that I'm not the only person dealing with the issues we are going through. My son won 21 times this year, good year for him. I'm very proud of what he has done, and as bad as I want to take him to 6-under state, he really isn't interested. (and for all you parents, you know this is killing me!) I think he would do well there. Im not sure who said it earlier but, not all kids have that fire in them. I originally signed my boy up to wrestle 2yrs ago to toughen him up for football next year. I told him that tonight and you should have seen the look on his face. He almost looked relieved. I told him that winning and losing wasnt what his dad cared about. I cared that he went out ,fought hard, and never gave up.(the same thing I told him all year long). But knowing that it sure looks like he is ok with whatever happened on the mat this year, good or bad. I guess that just shows you maybe we(I) can learn something from an innocent, awesome 6 yr old boy! Thanks for all the posts- CW Buoy Neodesha,KS

nix,

Thank you for wishing my son well at Subs. I will let him know he has another fan in his corner. Good luck with your son's season and I hope he continues on for many years to come. I can tell that you are very passionate about his wrestling and proud of his accomplishments thus far.

CW,

I have always told my son that wrestling is the most difficult sport that he or anyone his age will ever participate in. I told him that when he first started and I can't even count how many times I have told him every year since. I still believe that today and I will believe it when I wake up tomorrow.

I think I am beginning to have another belief. It would appear to me by many of the posts that I have read on this forum, and looking back on my own experience, that wrestling is also one of the most difficult sports on parents who have kids that wrestle.

I have been out of the country since September and have missed this entire wrestling season. Considering I have been very actively involved in my son's wrestling as a parent and a coach since he started wrestling seven years ago, I can only hope that this has been much harder on me than it has been on him (and my wife and our other three boys). This experience has given me a lot of time to reflect on the things that I am missing out on, and the things that I am unable to directly help him with. I can only lend my support and encouragement from thousands of miles away. Be thankful you had this season with your son, and be thankful for every season you have with him in the future. He sounds like a pretty good kid.

Last night at the US Army Metro they took a break to thank the US Army for their sponsorship. As part of the proceedings, they introduced those attending who had or were serving out Country!

A big thank you goes to all our men and women but a special hand surrounds those of you in service away from home!!

May the Big Guy watch over you all!

My son did (12) 6u tournaments and (6) 8u tournaments and (4) national tournaments. And still not done he has freestyle&Greco And USA Nationals in Iowa. And will do Purler every Monday

T-Dog,

I promise you - your son - AT SOME TIME will say I had enough if you keep him wrestling in 22 tournaments a year. Just free advice - I think that is to many matches for a youngster. The body needs time to recover and develop. I have been at this game for 20 plus years coaching and 12 years competing. I am not saying he'll burn out but he will wear out. 66-88 matches unless it is a 2 man round robin and wins both in a 2 out of 3 = 44. 44 matches is still a bunch for a 6 year old.

T-Dog,

I agree with smokeycabin. Too many tournaments, too many matches. I caught a post on the Missouri wrestling website from a Dad/Coach of a kid I saw wrestle a couple of years back (U10). This kid was a State Champ/National Placer back then, and I believe he won State in Folkstyle and Freestyle last year in Missouri as well. The post said that he practices a lot to improve but he would only wrestling about 8 tournaments this year.

Well I really don't see that in him being a natural at the sport. It's him wanting to do it not me. He does other stuff aswell. But wrestling is his main sport. If that day comes i'll still be supportive in whatever he does. He did alot of tournaments cause 6u wasn't tough enough for him that is why he did that many. He himself even told me at a couple of tournaments that he just wanted to do 8u cause in 6u there wasn't anybody for him to compete with
Tom

T-Dog

This article relates to growth plates in 11 and 12 year old pitchers. Wrestling involves similar repeated moves to knee joints, elbows, backs, ankles, etc. Just some information for you. I know it is him wanting to wrestle - but I doubt if he reads medical reports on youth and the affects of to much work/strain on a young body. So here it is for everybody's information that thinks it is OK to wrestle 60-100 matches a year.

How much is too much for young arms? - Source USA Today
Updated 8/18/2006 7:12 PM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions |

Increasingly, ace 11- and 12-year-old hurlers are developing overuse injuries — most noticeably in their growth plates, a soft tissue area between the shoulder and arm.

YOUNG PITCHERS RISK INJURY


GETTING PARENTS INVOLVED



There are three necessities for a youth pitcher to stay healthy, according to former major league pitcher and coach Tom House.

"The only hope a young pitcher has is to make sure you match up his workload - which is pitch totals - with functional strength and sound mechanics," says House, who has produced books, videos and DVDs on the topic.

The easiest task for a parent is monitoring pitch count. A $10 tally counter works fine, though there are more expensive digital models.

"Every mom and dad should have a pitch counter and follow the guidelines that are pretty standard for different age groups," House says. "It takes no talent, no coaching experience or knowledge of mechanics to count pitches."

Two other topics that can be important:
Mound construction. The mound should drop 1 inch for every foot. The steeper the mound, the more stress on the arm. "Some drop 11 inches in 4 feet. It's a joke," House says.
The curveball. "I'd say the jury is out on whether curveballs are dangerous," says Glenn Fleisig, a biomechanical expert at the American Sports Medicine Institute. "They may be minimally dangerous or very dangerous. It's not known yet. We're studying it. It's not a risk that needs to be taken."
By Dick Patrick


LITTLE LEAGUE WORLD SERIES

Championship: Columbus, Ga., outlasts Japan 2-1 for Little League title


Photos: Go inside all the action from South Williamsport, Pa.


Full coverage: LLWS index and schedule/results


Gary Thorne: Positives at Little League World Series drown out the negatives



Little League addresses arms problem | Pitch count limit approved


Fences at Little League stadium moved back


Little League World Series history: All-time champs | All-time records


By Johnnie Whitehead and Dick Patrick, USA TODAY
When pitchers take the mound for the Little League Baseball World Series, starting today in Williamsport, Pa., something of greater value than a championship could be on the line: their arms.
Increasingly, ace 11- and 12-year-old hurlers are developing overuse injuries — most noticeably in their growth plates, a soft tissue area between the shoulder and arm.
While Little League rules limit the number of innings a player can pitch to six a week during the regular season, those rules are relaxed during postseason play.
That might change soon. Little League's 22-member board of directors will meet Aug. 25 and could vote on new limits that would be based on the number of pitches thrown and could apply in all games, beginning next season. A majority of the board must approve the change.
Under a pilot program, pitch-based limits have been used the last two years in a fraction of Little League's roughly 7,000 leagues, encompassing 500,000 players, around the world eligible for Williamsport. Anecdotal reports from those leagues have some of the board's most notable members saying those limits should be adopted.
"I think we want to get it in as soon as we can," New York Yankees star pitcher Mike Mussina says. "I'm probably the most experienced board member as far as playing the game. I understand the stress of the pitching and what it takes. ... I'm in my mid-30s, and we're asking kids 11-, 12- and 13-year-olds to do the same amount of throwing with the same size ball? ... It hurts (major league pitchers) after a while."
Says Tim Hughes, board chairman the last two years: "The evidence that seems to be coming forward from the medical establishment is (that) something needs to be done. ... Oftentimes, what Little League baseball does, the other youth baseball leagues in the nation do. They look to us for the leadership role, and we take that very seriously."
Last year, two pitchers for the team from Vista, Calif., that reached the Little League World Series' U.S. championship game suffered fractures in their pitching arms. Neither Nathan Lewis nor Royce Copeland, then 12 years old, had experienced any symptoms until the latter stages of regional qualifying tournaments, say their fathers.
Lewis had pitched six innings in the West Region final but felt a pop in his left arm during the fourth. Two mornings later, while showering before the team's flight to Williamsport, he tossed a towel over a railing and felt excruciating pain. He had to comb his hair right-handed.
"I was trying to do as little as possible with my left arm," Lewis says. "I thought it was like a regular sore arm and that if I iced it and took some Advil and stuff, it would go away. After maybe a week of hurting, I realized that there was probably something wrong."
According to his father, Jim Lewis, even the team's trainers weren't aware of the nature of the injury. When he arrived in Williamsport to watch his son play, Nathan had been lifting weights to "strengthen" the arm. When Nathan practiced, he was playing first base and was tossing the ball underhanded.
Lewis, who pitched once in the World Series, when Vista lost to Hawaii in the U.S. title game, had fractured and dislocated the growth plate in the shoulder, injuries discovered in magnetic resonance imaging taken when he returned home. His story is in the soon-to-be released Little League, Big Dreams, by Charles Euchner, about the 2005 World Series.
"When the pitcher finishes (the follow-through), the arm really throws itself out," Jim Lewis says. "Nathan couldn't finish. He was just trying to locate the pitch. He was never the same after the Western Region championship game."
Copeland, whose right arm deteriorated gradually, saw his pitches lose velocity.
"It happened over time. There was no one moment when the injury occurred," says Don Copeland, whose son showed signs of discomfort and was diagnosed after the tournament, too. "He complained the arm wasn't 100%. It didn't feel right."
The experience has been eye-opening for Jim Lewis, who would rather his son play somewhere else in the field. Nathan, however, still is determined to pitch. The 13-year-old, 5-8 and 135 pounds, has played this summer with two club teams in which he has seen limited action on the mound. He threw for two innings last weekend and encountered soreness. Jim Lewis doesn't think it's serious, but he's taking him to a doctor anyway.
"If I had to do it over again, my kid wouldn't be a pitcher," Jim Lewis says. "But he loves being up on the mound and challenging people. I don't know if he's going to hold up."
Pilot program tested
Under the current rules for the players competing for spots in Williamsport, players cannot pitch more than six innings in any game. During the regular season, players are limited to six innings pitched a week, with a three-day rest from pitching required after four or more innings pitched in one outing. In the postseason, pitchers can throw as many as 18 innings in a week: They can throw a maximum of six innings an outing. If they throw four innings or more in an outing, they cannot pitch for at least two days and cannot pitch in consecutive games, even if those games are more than two days apart.
Under the pilot program's pitch-count rules, players cannot throw more than 85 pitches in one outing, regardless of the number of innings (they can stay in the game at another position). A player who throws 61 pitches or more in one outing cannot pitch again for at least four days.
In Little League's recently concluded eight U.S. regional tournaments, there were 119 games played. In 92 of the 238 starting pitching outings (39%), a pitcher threw more than 85 pitches, according to a USA TODAY analysis of box scores posted on Little League's website. Those 92 outings lasted an average of nearly 99 pitches.
Those 238 starting pitching outings were spread among 153 players. Of those 153 players, 61 (40%) threw more than six innings over the course of the tournament in their starts. Of those 61 players, 59 pitched those innings in a seven-day period, averaging nearly 12 innings in that period.
"None of this makes any sense," John Pinkman, a youth pitching coach in the Washington, D.C., area, said before the regional tournaments. "If it was unsafe to throw more than six innings in one week of the regular season, why would it be safe to throw 12 innings or more at the end of the season when a kid's arm is at the weakest?"
The Northwest Region tournament provided a microcosm of how this works. Last weekend, Murrayhill (Beaverton, Ore.) advanced to the Little League World Series with a 5-4 victory against Dimond-West (Anchorage) in the region final Aug. 13. The starting pitchers in that game helped carry their teams throughout what became a 10-day, six-game event, doing so with workloads beyond what is allowed in the regular season under the current rules and what would be allowed under the pilot program's rules.
Murrayhill's Jace Fry pitched three games (the maximum 18 innings), throwing 86 pitches on Aug. 4, 103 on Aug. 8 and 99 on Aug. 13. Dimond-West's Kyle Kornegay totaled 17 2/3 innings in three regional games, throwing 102 pitches on Aug. 6, 81 on Aug. 9 and 120 on Aug. 13.
Steve Fry, Jace's father, disputes the accuracy of the posted pitch counts. He said Wednesday that he counted his son's pitches and has totals of 72, 92 and 95.
"I would say (his son's pitch totals, as he counted them) would be bad," Steve Fry said, "but he's a pitcher of knowledge. He pitches to the talent of the batter. It's different with my son."
The elder Fry adds that when the World Series ends, his son will not start playing for another team — he will take a break from baseball. "The kid may not see the mound for a while," Steve Fry said.
Kent Kornegay, Kyle's father, said this week when told of his son's pitch count in the region final: "Ooh, that's a little high. Kyle's a strong kid. ... We iced him down at least three times after each game. I was hoping he wouldn't have gone over 100. I was amazed we didn't pitch more players because we had a couple others, but we didn't have the caliber we needed to win."
Injuries can show up later
Typically, growth plate injuries don't require surgery and heal with rest — Lewis and Copeland wore slings and couldn't throw for four months — because tissue in youth players is still pliable and not prone to tearing. Still, such injuries can be a precursor to more serious problems such as rotator cuff and elbow ligament tears that are common in older players.
Research by the Birmingham, Ala.-based American Sports Medicine Institute, run by noted orthopedic surgeon James Andrews, who has treated a who's who of amateur and professional athletes, sparked interest from Little League. Andrews concluded that the sixfold increase he has seen in arm injuries that required surgery had roots in youth baseball.
"The statistics all point to the amount (of pitches) as the No. 1 factor," said Glenn Fleisig, research director at Andrews' institute. "A lot of arm injuries are showing up in teenagers and 20-year-olds. We're seeing the number of overuses per game, per year ... add up to injury down the road."
Little League considered banning curveballs and other breaking pitches — which might put even more stress on arms because of the torque required to create ball movement — but chose not to because there weren't any data available. Little League has partnered with the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for a five-year study to determine if those pitches exacerbate arm injuries in youth.
Little League has partnered with the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for a five-year study to determine if those pitches exacerbate arm injuries in youth.
Up to coaches, parents
Little League can't force other leagues, such as Babe Ruth, Pony, Dixie and countless club teams, to abide by its rules. So even with a pitch-count rule, there's no guarantee kids will be protected.
That responsibility will fall more with the parents and coaches.
Rick Hale wrestled with a guilty conscience last year when his Owensboro, Ky., team advanced to Williamsport.
"I knew I was pitching kids more than they ought to be pitched," he says. "(But) how many times is a guy like me going to get to the World Series? The kids, too. The moms and dads. Everybody wants to go. So you send your No..1 (pitcher) out there against every tough team and hope for the best."
Medical experts and Little League board members say among the ways parents and coaches can offset the lack of uniformity in rules between all the different leagues and the pressure to win are:
Limiting the number of leagues in which kids pitch. Some kids pitch at school, or for travel, club and AAU teams and a Little League team.
"My advice," Mussina says, "would be to pick one league, let them play in one league, and when the season is over, let your kid do what other kids do in the summer — go to the pool, go to the beach and rest instead of playing baseball all the time."
Developing more players who can pitch.
"From the pilot results I have seen, people found this wasn't a difficult thing to implement, and they understood the reason for it," says Barry Goldberg, a Little League board member who has been a primary care physician for 18 years and chairs the medical safety committee for USA Baseball, the sport's national governing body.
Leagues that have participated in the pilot program talk about the positive results of pitch limits.
"You can't ride two guys all season," says Ernie Strehlow, president of Sunrise Little League, outside of Sacramento. "Managers are trying to develop more pitchers. That's a good thing, part of the Little League philosophy of getting everyone to be part of the game."
Goldberg says it also should be part of the Little League rules.
"It's very important to vote on this," Goldberg says. "I think it will go through. I don't think any parent wants to expose their kid to a practice that could eliminate their ability to continue pitching."
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