National Tournament Salina, Classic, Hays

For those of you that want to have a National Caliber tournament in the state...look to Salina. They have a great venue, great awards, and only ONE bracket. With the change of venue next year The Wichita Classic is well on its way back with great awards and great competition (ONE Bracket). I can not speak of the venue or awards for Hays because I have never been. But having more than one bracket makes this a far less competitive tournament. I hear talk of 3 big tournaments, a kickoff, a mid-season, and one just before state. I think these three would be perfect. To do so, they have to be competitive and not with each other. Hays and Wichita need to figure out who begins the season and who ends the season. Hays needs to go to just one bracket. If you want good competition to show up, make it worth the wrestlers time.

Great Idea to have three large tournaments in the state. Would bring lots of good kids into the Kansas that will only help our kids become that much stronger.

Roller's World of Wrestling is looking for other host locations if anybody is up to it:

http://www.worldofwrestling-roller.com/

Scroll to the bottom.

Also they are starting up a ranking system to include other tourneys I believe.

You will always be second tier to the Tulsa tournaments if you add on to the Roller series. Addon's to the roller series back east have not gone as well. Liberty and some others have left the door open for the "Midwest Classic Series" or something like it to be run independently. The question is who can do it?.

I believe there has been some talk of having an early season Wichita Classic, Salina, and the March Classic be a series, similar to the Triple Crown, Trinity, etc. I agree, have Hays do one, WIchita do one, and Salina do theirs. All would attract out of state talent, along with our Kansas studs as well.

The tourneys are already in place, just need to work on having the Classic and Hays decide who does the early season tourney and who does the March tourney.

The end of season "trinity" awards is the only thing not in place, but is probably not a huge logistics thing, if logistics is the correct word.

We need to keep Kansas tournaments USAW sanctioned and working for Kansas kids, not someone's pocketbook. As to a having a set of tournaments that are somehow set above all others and linked in some way. Be very careful, you or your club would not likely like a ranking system which for whatever reason made your tournament less attractive than another just because of it's date or location. Let each tournament regardless of where or when sink or swim based on it's own merits.

These tournaments are already in place. They are not stealing anyones thunder, except for each others with Hays and The Classic. Some would be more attracted because of the competition, others would be less attracted and go somewhere else. Competition is not a bad thing, it is alot better than being fair.

Nobody is talking about being fair. I am talking about tournaments that are linked due to some artificial means like a belt or jacket series, as has been discussed in the past. While this all seems good at first blush it will have it's consequences if and when more and more tournaments are elevated to some prestigious level they do not deserve and in the process put out of business better run smaller ones. What if for instance that date they choose to move the Hays tournament to falls on the date of Ark City tournament? There will be more than enough parents and coaches chasing these elusive awards to possibly make your tournament unattractive, maybe even some from your own club. If a tournament wants to offer belts or trophies more power to them but we need all of the tournaments we currently have plus some more. We have already, according to some on these boards, seen a decline in the smaller tournaments in the N.E. part of the state and it can happen anywhere. What happens when this state only has maybe a dozen tournaments a year? We need all the mom and pop tournaments plus the big ones in this state to keep the clubs running and in return keep the kids coming to the sport.

If the Kickoff tournament date were to fall on what is now the Ark City date, we would simply move our tournament and go where the competition is.

we could have a triple crown tailgate party.

I'm all for the big "3". Why wrestle the same kids week after week at the smaller tournaments? Alot of clubs and myself included travel all around the state and into Oklahoma just to wrestle different kids, not looking for the "belt" but different styles of wrestling and compitision. How many of us take our kids to, Tulsa, Okla. city, Liberty, Big horn, etc. and do NOT place but got to wrestle REALLY good kids? Now as far as taking away from smaller tournaments there are more kids in the sea needing a place to wrestle due to the fact they are not at the calibur, of the ones who are wrestling at the big venues. I know if my son had his choice of going to one of the big "3" or wrestling some of the same kids we've already seen his choice would be "THE BIG ONE" Just my thoughts....As for tailgating I'm in both at state or the Big "3" because I'm Nuts over Nutts!!!!

I don't know how much a team makes putting on your average weekly tourney. Say the Clearwater open, or the Pratt Ground and Pound for example. On entries and awards and referees, I've been told that you about break even. You make the money on the concessions. I had someone tell me that a tourney of this size makes $1500-2500 on concessions. I know Derby, Maize,and those "size" tourneys make much more. And they have the numbers of kids and parents to put on that size of a tourney. But what I am getting at is that if the Salina and Hays tourneys do what the Classic does, and pays clubs to provide mats, setup time, table workers, weigh in help, cleanup help, etc., clubs can make similar amounts of money, and the WHOLE tourney isn't on their shoulders. If I remember right, I think there were clubs working the Salina tourney other than Salina, and I'm sure they are compensated. Can someone clarify if that is the case.

We have talked about having a tourney ourselves, but realize that it is a gamble to think that we can make the same amount of money doing our own, as we do helping at the Classic. These types of tourneys allow a team of our small size to be able to raise money, where one of the big question marks of putting our own on is whether we can find enough help to put one on.

"If I remember right, I think there were clubs working the Salina tourney other than Salina, and I'm sure they are compensated. Can someone clarify if that is the case."

Salina does not in any way pay another club to help our tourn... We (the club) work their tourn in return they work our tourn... and goes for the borrowing of mats.

OK, that clarifies that. But the point being made is, if a local club tourney around Hays was being trampled by the big Hays tourney, I'm sure they would provide some help and Hays would compensate them, for helping run the tourney. They would give up their local tourney, yet still be able to fundraise as a part of Hays. Just an example, don't know how Hays works.

I know the Roller tourneys "subcontract" some table working and such out to local clubs. Wichita Classic does it as well. What about Hays?

The Hays tournament is run almost entirely by Hays volenteers. Many of the workers have been helping for years even after their kids were done with the club. There is no way this tournament would be so successful without all the help from our wrestling family. As far as moving the tournament to another date, it would be almost impossible. Gross Memorial is used by the FHSU basketball teams and they use the Colliseum up till this weekend. I don't know about other clubs, but Hays is very fortunate to have so many great volenteers that step up every year and make this happen.
Brian Schumacher
Hays Wrestling Club

Sounds like you guys run a nice tourney. You guys couldn't do the "Kickoff" tourney in early December?
The Classic is just too darn close to us to pass up and drive to Hays in March.

Hopefully we can figure something out and get Hays, Salina, and Wichita to all host a nice big tourney.

Doug

One of the problems with Hays doing an early December tournament is that they will miss out on 14 and under and 16 and unders.

The freshmen 14 and under and the 16 unders, you are correct. You still get plenty of freshmen wrestling the 15under class at Oklahoma, maybe some of htem would wander up, or some from Neb, Colo, or Missou.

The Oklahoma kids are much more likely to wander to Wichita than to Hays. Maybe the Wichita Classic should be in early December?

We need to just leave these three tournaments alone because they each draw good caliber of wrestlers for the time of the year that they are held. The salina one is a good mid year tourny, the classic and hays are good end of the year ones because the draw the best competition for the parts of the state including so real good high school matches. Yes i have been to both and hays is just as good as the classic minus the horse barn smell and feel and hays does a good job at bracketing. maybe they could try to use trackwrestling next year even though i am not a big fan of it. Or they could do what Hutch does and have lots of 8-Man bracket and give everybody the competition that they deserve for their ability.

I do agree that Hays runs a great tournament. However, I completely disagree with the way they do the bracketing. Especially at the time of year that their trournament is held, they should be putting the better wrestlers in one bracket,rather than spreading them over all the brackets, and let the best wrestler win.

I agree with goshortygo, they should put all the A wrestlers in the same bracket. These are the ones wrestling at sub-district and later and they should be wrestling each other.

I would defer that question to Brian Hargrove or Steven Foster about having the Classic in Early December. They'd need to start marketing it now IMO!!!

I think one thing we will change next year will be the bracketing. Thought of bracketing to a 16 man with all the better wrestlers and create another bracket if there are more then 16 for the beginners. We did this two years ago and it went over well. Any other suggestions to help improve our tournament would be appreciated. I know there has been talk about how we may not draw the competion (Tulsa National Placers). I don't think we are about just this type of competion. All wrestlers didn't start out as champions and we want to provide a great experience (Venue of the 321A State Tournament)for as many atheletes as possible. It is rewarding to see these young wrestlers from the very same small towns here in Western Kansas that were here for the state tournament and experience what their highschool state qualifers experienced. It is also great to see wrestlers from every corner of this state competing here in Hays. We truely appreciate there support and hope to only make this a better tournament in the future.
Brian Schumacher
Hays Wrestling Club

Brian,

We had a great time at Hays. Keep up the good work.