Dissapointed in Brute!

For a "National" tournament I was terribly dissapointed. This was one of the worst ran tournaments I have ever been to. The refs were not good timekeeping was a disaster, skipping matches then going back to them, some kids wrestled on only 10 minutes rest. I talked to several people who were also unhappy, this was our first year going and i will not be taking my son back. Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts?

Bob,

I would suggest making your suggestions directly to Brute and also volunteer some of your time and help make changes. They work very hard at putting on a nice event and many many people volunteer 1,000 - 1,500 hours total - so kids can wrestle at a national/regional event. They do and will take your suggestions.
You should have been at the tournament (a few years back) when they ran kids and high school on the same day 2 days in a row - that was a huge problem and very congested. They have made changes every year on the go.


Sean McCarthy

This was my sons first year at Brute. I don't have anything to compare it to except my expectations. I was able to find and keep a seat. A seat, that I might add that allowed me an excellent view. They ran 14 mats. My oldest daughter was recruited to help run a table - I know they didn't have near enough volunteers. I noticed that they skipped a match every now and again - but thought it rather smart rather than standing around waiting for a coach. I didn't see any knock down drag out fights between coaches and refs. (unlike a few state tournaments i've been to). My son got his warm up racing down the halls and ramps to get down on the floor. I got mine hiking to the bathroom or to see the "awesome" Irish singlet that he really, really wants. I appreciated the fact that they moved things right along and we were out of there by 3:00. Oh, and the Olympic champ that signed my sons singlet... although the daughter had to get that done... made my sons day. Let's not forget all the awesome wrestlers that came from the states beginning with I... wow, what incredible competition! (Iowa, Idaho, Illinois...yep, there was an Arkansas in there too).
My son learned today how to handle the disappointment of losing a match that would've had him wrestling for 1st/2nd with his head held high... rather than with an angry outburst and tears. He thinks its the BEST thing ever... how could I ever disagree with him?? I can't wait to watch him walk in on Sunday morning! We'll definately be back next year and more than likely will volunteer our help ahead of time.

GREAT WRESTLING!!!!! I dont really like the drawn in seating!!! Come on?? TYLER DICKMAN and DANIEL LEWIS first match?? I seen a lot of that!! I guess thats how its ben for years!! Just seems a little unfair. Kinda robs kids out of singlets. I seen a lot of finals matches in the first two rounds!! Just an opinion!! Any one else??

They tried to give kids 2008 singlets because they ran out of 2009!
Whatever! lol

If disappointed in the seating move up a few rows. The seeding is difficult because the folks who run this tournament are from PA. They don't know who each kid is like we do. They rely on input from local people to help out. Brute does this tournament to help raise money to support wrestling. They donate all of the proceeds to wrestling programs of all levels. Feel fortunate this tournament is in the midwest and easy to travel to . They give out great awards and try to do the right thing. It takes a ton of volunteers to run this size of tournament and make it succesful. Keep it in KC and step up to help. It does need to be moved back a week or two to be successful.

what do you have to place to get a singlet?

what do you have to place to get a singlet?

I believe finalists get a singlet

finalists do get a singlet.

O.k. smart alleck I spelled seeding wrong. How do they seed all the other national tournaments?? Do they know all the kids that enter all them since most of the brackets there are huge!! Thanks!! I was just making a point. This tourney brings awesome wrestling and the help works their butts off!! We will be back every year till we are done with high school!! I was just making a suggestion and Im glad I dont get kicks out of spell checking every ones post DBADRUM!! OOPS!!!

If people go to a tournament for the first time and are not happy with it. then they get on here and rip it apart it never has a chance to grow into an awesome tournament. I have heard good and bad about Brute. I would hope the reason everyone goes there for is the competition for the kids. I see this tournament growing in the next 5 years if and only if they get the help and feedback to make it just that. Rather than getting on here complaining give your ideas to Brute so they know. They dont know whats going on cause they are too busy running it. Its easy to sit back and watch something and see all the bad things over all the good things. I hope my son gets to go to this tournament in the future. Would have been this year if we didnt have a baseball tournament this weekend.

Baseball should never take precedence over wrestling!! (Other than that I agree with you!!)

As one of the many volunteers for the tournament and handing out the singlets all I can say is because some wanted to change the sizes, we ran into issues. When they order these singlets they order specifically for the weight classes. I.E. if a kid is a 43# he gets a small. Some wanted to change and some of the gracious volunteers were making the swap. Well, when you get to the end, guess what, your numbers are off.

Also, there was a delay in getting the brackets to the volunteers since they were waiting for the backside to finish up. Hopefully this can be corrected. We and another Mom are making a list to give to the Brute directors.

Years ago when this tournament was really ran poorly, I stepped up and have since been enlisted into volunteer work from Thursday night thru Sunday evening. I do this because I hope this tournament stays in KC! Make sure that you give suggestions to Brute as they want nothing more than to fill up the brackets with quality wrestlers! Also, please volunteer. Give up a day and work a table. And I don't say that just for this tournament but all tournaments. If you are behind the scenes and see how a tournament runs you might just understand that not everything will run perfect at all times.

We are also suggesting more 3X coaches shirts...just for you big boys!

Brute dont seed at all, they said it was a blind draw.

My son has gone to Brute the last 3 years, and there has been a vast improvement. In 2007, the tourney was held in a wide open space with VERY limited seating. There was so much congestion just from the wrestlers trying to get to matside that the spectators couldn't see their kids in action. It was disappointing. This year, I have a clear view of the mat my son is on. Seating is comfortable, and bathrooms are easily accessible. And this year, the competition was what you pay all that money and spend all that time looking for throughout the season. I hope the tournament continues to grow and improve.

I agree the competiton was very good and that is why we went I guess what I was trying to say is that for the amount of money it costs to go to brute I expected it to be a little more organized I wasn't trying to put the tournament down just offering my thoughts

Bob, I will agree with you. I was hoping it was more than it was. I went last year and was disappointed like you were this year. It's getting better. Competition is great. My eighth grader wrestled yesterday and my freshman son is wrestling there right now and I had my wife take the kids this year due to a pryor commitment, dang its killing me not being there. 3 nights of hotel is denting my pocket. Trackwrestling is not uddating as fast as i'd like either. But we will go back. It beats driving to Iowa which I have done many a time.

I volunteered for Brute and it has been a blast. Some friends and I helped with weigh ins on Friday and helped run bout sheets Saturday. Had plenty of time to coach my kids, and Jenny who runs the volunteers is a very cool lady. I got a free jacket a free pass and got to see some great wrestling. You can't beat it. I highly recommend it. On another note I did see some table workers have some issues with starting the clock and sometimes bout sheets were slow getting to some of the tables. This happens at every tournament. If you have an issue come and be a volunteer. Be someone who is doing something to make a change to make this tournament better than what it already is. PLease don't criticize this tournament and the people who ran it. I want to see it stay here in the mid west. Finally when you go to National Tournaments 20 minutes betwen matches usally doesn't apply. Cliff Keen we wrestled every 10 minutes on the back side. It's something that you get used to at national tournaments. The refs are some of the best in the nation, and Bob miller if you don't come back then you might as well not go to any other national tournaments either beacuse your going to walk away disappointed. You could compare Brute to other tournaments and find negative things to say but remember that many of those other national tournaments have been around for a very lond time and thay have the process of running a tournament of this scale down to a science.

My boys have done the tournament for 2 years in a row. While, I think it is over priced for the entry fee and concessions and the cost to coach, I have gotten over that. The thing that really got me was the parking. Paying $7 to go to weigh-ins on Friday night was crazy. We were in there a total of 18 minutes, and that was for me to weigh-in 3 boys and to get my coaching stuff. I don't mind paying the $$ when we are going to be there all day, but for 18 min, that is just not right.

Then on Friday, it took me 25 minutes from when I turned on to 12th Street to the time I got into the parking lot. Of course, there was only 1 guy working and he didn't seem to be in much of a hurry to get people in. Luckily, I was able to let my boys off (they are old enough now) and have them walk in to start getting ready while I waited in line to park. I don't know what it was like on Saturday, but Friday was a mess.

The boys like the tournament and that is great. Just some of these logistical things really get under my collar.

having to pay just for weigh in is probably one of the dumbest things i have ever heard. next time just tell them you have to drop your kid off and keep driving. thats bull----.

I mentioned what I disliked and in all fairness I should also talk about the positive things as well, great competiton and sportsmanship, the staff was very friendly the parade of all americans was great! Medals and certificates were also very cool I may have been a little harsh in my 1st post all in all the tourney was not that bad

I liked how they tried very hard to fix issues as they came up. When you went to the head table they put someone right on it.
I also liked how during the parade they planned on doing it one way and then when the crowd wanted more light in the room they did that. It wasn't part of their program but they fixed it. A lot of big events just stick with the plan.

BTW...
During weigh ins, park at a meter.
Saves you $5 bucks!

The costs of Brute are pretty much right on par with other national caliber tournaments.

I do agree though paying for parking just for weigh-in is silly.

My only real complaint is that they don't switch up the medals, they are the same every year, change it up a little bit. Other than that my boys love this tourny.

As always someone has to complain. Seating was not bad sit in the middle and you can see very well. As for seeding the tournament, they do separate the paste Brute Champions, but with that many entries there is always a chance that some may wrestle on the same side. Look at it this way they have to get the job done on the mat anyway. Another thing to look at, Did they seed the Senior National tournament? I doubt it, look at the 160 bracket and you will see that it was not. At the other national tournament in the past they never seeded them either. I am a coach, a state director in this event, and I also volunteered to help at tables when I was not coaching. You can volunteer and help us make this tournament better or you could not its your choice. Now another topic all three tournamets are set for the same week. Brute is the first to set their dates, followed by the other two, this makes it hard for parents and coaches to choose where to go. Now lets all jump in and start helping and volunteer for the tournament and it will continue to get better each year.

Mel

i think they should at least have the year of that tourney and the place you got on the medals.

I thought it was a well ran tournament overall. Only complaints - some of the refs thought a pin was .01 of a second. Not a good way to see a championship match end. Also, if you are going to charge $60 to be on the floor - don't send your security out to chase us off. In fact, you might make a little more profit if you had less staff out bothering the hard working coaches!!! In other words, nice tourny - needs to be cheaper and better competition - at least for the 8th grade down.

They DID NOT seperate past Brute Champions or if they did they overlooked several. Yes they DO seed Senior Nationals. The editor of WIN Magazine gets that job. At the very least you could ask for HS State placings so you wouldn't end up with two state champions on one side and two state qualifiers on the other. The only seperation criteria used was state residency.

The tournament will never get better with the high prices and early deadlines. They could have used more surfaces and finished earlier. Heck, the kids could have been finished on Friday! Four days in the same building is WAY too much for me. I have been to Reno, Cedar Falls, but not to Virginia Beach. I am going back to Cedar Falls where I will never be harassed to leave the floor, where I get a FREE coach pass, where I can walk up and enter so I don't have to worry about weight changes and a penalty, where the age groups are not diluted (1394 wrestlers resulting in 900 All Americans) by having one for each year of school, where if you win a round robin bracket you don't have to wrestle the second place kid again to be champion, where we don't ask high school kids to show up at 7:30am for a parade and video only to have them wait until 11:30am to wrestle. The awards are great, I love Municipal Auditorium, the volunteers were awesome, Trackwrestling worked perfectly, but it is too expensive and stretched out WAY too long. Oh an I forgot to mention the parking issue due to the 4500 girls playing volleyball next door. I am sure the wrestlers, those who visited, loved that benefit.

We are a USA wrestling organization and we should support USA Wrestling. I tried it and all weekend I was wishing I was in Cedar Falls.

Cokely,
I don't know about the 9-12 which is probably what you were referring to, but on the 1-8, the RR winners DID have to wrestle again for their place (1 vs. 2 for 1st, 3 vs. 4 for 3rd, etc.). I do agree that they could have easily finished the 1-8 kids up on Friday since we were out of there by about 2:30. Instead, we have to have a total of 3 nights hotel, added food and entertainment, losses at the Casino, etc. instead of heading home on Friday evening. I am curious to try out Iowa and compare the two for myself. The brackets are definitely larger on the younger kids side.

yeah they need to talk to those casino's and tell them to let the wrestling parties win something to cover the costs of the tournament lol. when you are losing you should try something different. at least ask a host for something due to your losses. They always offer you something free if you lose enough lol.

Im disappointed cause I didnt get to go. Maybe I should stay away all the time since my son won it.

I would echo the concern over having three great national events all held the same weekend. However, I would dispute the statement that Brute established it's schedule prior to the other two.

USA Wrestling has held it's national tournament the first weekend in April since 1998, when it was first held at the Topeka Expocentre. USAW has looked at holding this event earlier in the year, but ultimately elected to remain on the same weekend, in large part out of respect to Kansas and the other states, where our athletes would have to choose between our state tournament series and the national tournament.

I loved this tournament, even though my son was two and out on Friday. I considered it a vacation. It is not often that we go to Kansas City and stay in hotels. I loved watching the wrestling. One of our teammates received first place and that was AWESOME!!!!! I am sooo proud of him, Jacob. I have not been to any other national tournament, so this was pretty cool to me. I LOVED the seating! I could watch whatever match I wanted to without any problems. As for paying for parking, well, we budgetted for that. We did not pay on Thursday, though, for weigh-in's. We parked on the street and had to walk. Whoever payed for parking for weigh-ins, was well, crazy. It was a choice. As for nothing to do Saturday, well your in Kansas City. There is alot to do there that does not cost much. I loved it and I am sure we will be back next year.

Well, didn't pay for parking at weigh-ins either night. Walked and got some exercise. Also, volunteered to help work weigh ins both nights, and worked at entering trackwrestling most of the day on Saturday for the HS kids. Saturday ran smoother than Friday..but they are already aware of a couple of issues and have already corrected them to make next year better.

I like the tourney...as it is only 1.5hrs from my house. Drove home after weigh ins on Thurs. night ... and stayed in a $55 Super Eight for Friday and Saturday nights...pd $7 parking each day and brought in food and drinks all 3 days as they did not search your bag or purse! Saved a ton of money by eating out of the cooler by my seat! My youngest son won 1 and lost 2 the first day...kind of sad as he has won the tournament the past 2 years running...they do not seperate out past winners...as his 3rd match of the day was against the kid who he beat in the finals last year in overtime 4-3 (Congrats to Taylor Watkins on taking 1st). But you win some you loose some...he seemed ok after a few hrs of cooling off! But also...our club brought 19 wrestlers and he got to watch his best friend place 3rd..his first time at a National tournament! Way to go Mason Baum! And watched, cheered and coached a little as Spencer Baum took 2nd, Tyler Price 1st, Hunter Price 2nd, Kyler Tannahill 1st, Konnor Tannahill 4th, Alex Cavanaugh 4th, Hunter Howerton 3rd,Taygen Fletcher 3rd, Drake Lovvorn 8th in HS(his brother) , Kane Lovvorn 4th HS, Garrett Mathews 8th HS, Kyle White 6th HS...sorry if I missed anyone!

If you don't like how it is ran or if your table was unorganized..they would have appreciated the extra help! So volunteer..the money goes back to the kids anyway!!

See ya a Brute next year!
Kim Lovvorn

The ONLY complaints I have about this tournament, is that I could not get a good picture of them during the parade. But, once the lights came back on, I got a decent one. That is the ONLY complaint. We stayed at a Super Eight for 34$ a night, in Lenexa, which was only 15 minutes to the stadium. Great places to eat at night. I really enjoyed myself, and so did my hubby and kids. Kids love hotels, the only time they get to jump on beds! LOL!

I wondered because we finished so early on Friday-why not weight in Friday am. I don't know about Saturday because I did not attend. Parking was crazy but..it's a big place. This was our first year and my boys had so much fun and came away with a medal. They also met with boys and friends that will last in their memories. They practiced with others they never met and had a great time. Motels were expensive for 3 nights, but I figured it would be. Entry fee was reasonable. Cost for adults to get in was a little pricey. I thought it listed on the internet $10 per day. I really thought there might be more vendors. I mistakenly ended up at the volleyball tourney Thursday night and they had an awesome setup for vendors. Overall, we will be back. I liked the age brackets by grades. It made more winners and the kids were beaming. Isn't that what this is all about? I would gladly pay the price again to see my son's face light up after he wrestled so hard and did so well. He tried for that singlet and came up empty handed but, the medal and experience he won't forget. Now he is ready for other national events. It was all priceless to me! We'll be back.

We like Brute as an end of the year just fun weekend. State is over and it is a nice tourney to wind down with. The prices are no more than any other national tourney! We go to several national tourneys a year and no the competition for kids is not that of Tulsa by any means but it is just as good as liberty and with much better awards!!!! I like the way they split it up. Makes for a lot less stress the week after state. The matches were not drawn out where kids were waiting for hours in between matches. As for seeding, I think kids seeding at any national tourney is kind of the pits. It is hard to seed kids from all over, the only thing they have is the record and people aren't always truthful if you know what I mean!!

I don't think there were and 9-12 round robins as most of those brackets had decent numbers. My 7th grader had a five man round robin. He wrestled all four opponents on Friday and beat them. Traditionally this bracket would be DONE. They cooked up medal matches for 1st and 3rd. NEVER seen a tournament make you beat the same guy twice for first place.

I think admission was actually $20 per day. Coaches passes were $60 and entry $45 or $65 depending on when you entered. The competition was spotty as compared to USA Folkstyle Nationals. It would be best to split the tournaments up. Hopefully USA and Virginia Beach will be on different dates next year. If you were a FR or SO you could have hit both this year but you would have had to miss four days of school. :0 NO Kansas FR, SO, or JRs wrestled in Virginia Beach this year. I don't think any 18U Kansas kids wrestled at Reno either. I just quickly glanced through the entries.

If you took four wrestlers and two coaches to USA Nationals you would save $40 on entry and $120 for coaches cards. That pays for your hotel and some of your gas. JMO

Brute is a "Feel Good" tournament for the kids (NOT even close to Liberty Nationals) and USA Nationals is a "See how good you are tournament". Not opinion, fact.

i went to brutes last year and was very disappointed in it. so bad that i didnt come back this year. i feel that it should be converted back to only high school. it went smoother at omaha and lincoln and the one in lincoln was probably the best

Fiorella's Jack Stack Barbecue vs Oklahoma Joe's

Oklahoma Joe's - I like their smokeyjoe sandwich and it is closer to my house. But, the sales tax collection from Fiorella's Jack Stack is more beneficial to me because that eating establishment is within the city I live in. I like Fiorella's ribs better than OK Joe's - but OK Joe's fries are plentiful and tastey.

I like them both and they both serve a purpose. I have never tried to go to both OK Joe's and Fiorella's on the same day.

Brute (Kansas City area) VS USA Kids Nationals (Iowa)

I like them both they both serve a purpose.

From an economic perspective the wrestling dollar from Brute stays in the Missouri and Kansas economy longer than a dollar spent in Cedar Falls. Both tournaments offer kids some competition and one has bigger/tougher brackets in some cases.
I think a few kids that wrestled in KC could have done well in Cedar Falls. What are the chances of getting USA Kids nationals back in Kansas or Missouri? Wisconsin did not send many of their High School Kids to Virginia because Cedar Falls was closer. So having 3 or 4 of these events on different weekends should benefit both tournaments - ASSUMING families can afford to go to ALL of the events. Does USA Wrestling give back to a needy college program or is Cedar Falls, State of Iowa and UNI the main beneficiary? I see it as 2 main companies battling for the wrestling entertainment dollar - Asics vs Brute. Both tournaments could not do these events without the volunteers - they would not happen.

Westchester State Womens Wrestling???? Needy???? Use the money to create a new D1 opportunity or to save a D1 school!!! Without USA wrestling there would be NO college wrestling! USA offers bigger and tougher brackets in all cases across the board. It is just common sense, you combine two years into an age group it will be tougher than just one.

Ideas to help Brute.

1. NEVER have it the same weekend as USA Nationals.

2. Get rid of the ALL AMERICAN theme until you reach 16 in every bracket. Are you really an ALL AMERICAN if you won one match or zero matches?

2. Keep the entry fee at $45 all the way up until midnight the night before. Charge $75 for walk ups and weight changes.

3. Give a free pass for every five wrestlers you enter under a team. Charge $50 for extra passes and $25 more for every coach who WANTS a jacket.

4. Give a bracket to the Champion. Kids LOVE brackets.

5. Finish the Kids on Saturday and have only a parade for kids. HS Wrestlers do NOT want a parade.

6. Contract for some wrestling only parking.

7. Partner up with some hotels for free rooms for organizers and volunteers. Block the rooms for wrestlers at give them a three night rate.

8. Partner up with Southwest Airlines to get more out of staters flying in.

9. Have they explored all of the options to gain funding from the tourism groups?

10. More mats! They could have put down two or three more.

11. Tell the floor security to give it a rest! Coaches want to watch matches and they are not going to keep going up and down the ramp they have. Coaches paid $60 to $90 for a pass and do NOT want to hear "Move to the edge!" all day long. It is annoying. This was the BEST crowd situation I have EVER seen at a "National" tournament. Quit harassing the coaches! They are volunteers who PAID!

Send suggestions to this guy.

jpbowyer@hensco.com

Jeffrey M. Bowyer
Brute adidas Nationals Director
R.E.A.C.H.E.S. - Executive Director

Done

Good!

I keep wondering why all the hoopla about USA and Brute on the same weekend. I took a rough estimate of Cedar Falls tourney and counted less than approx. 60-80 kids from Kansas. Correct me if I am wrong but what would that have helped with Brute? Each weekend you usually have a choice of 2 and sometimes 3 tournaments per weekend throughout the season. So what is the difference? What's the matter with a choice. It was a decent ran tournament-not 100% but it was better than some I have seen. It was pricey but you knew that before you went. Give Brute a break and let the kids have their wins without all the criticism. I looked up the term All American- no good results for a clear definition. So who determines what it is? There were state champions that are now national champions and so whats the matter with terminology. Parking! The problem is we are not used to that kind of parking or having to pay for it-so yea it sucked and was expensive. Brackets are nice but so was the singlet, the jacket and the watches that were given. Entry fees need a deadline to plan for the event. Come late or change and pay more. Coaches are very much needed. Without coaches we cannot have tournaments, practice or good programs. I do think at least the head coach should be free or one per team. If your kids aren't wrestling though it is nice when large crowds of coaches move to the side for viewing purposes. I know that you paid good money for your coaches band but I paid almost as much to be in the stands and to be able to view the mat. Continually throughout the year it has been discussed about moms/dads/spectators on the mat and to many coaches are just as bad when you would like to view the action. Don't say move up-when it's time for coaches to move over. Get a row of seats or something for coaches to wait on would be a nice solution. It would be nice to partner with hotels and airlines, but I got a deal for 3 nights stay and mentioning the wrestling tournament. I did not use the hotel from Brute. So, just do a little shopping around. If we all would have stayed at the close motels we wouldn't have to pay for parking. My boys thought it was great, they had good competition and they don't care about All American cause they just think it's a term. The medals were great. I would like to see change from year to year and at least the place on them and maybe the year. I seen alot of smiling, happy boys. Not alot of crying or temper tantrums like you see so many times. So...it's must have been good for most all the boys and isn't that what counts! Let em wrestle....