seeding meetings

I have a question and ask for some help from you all. I know of two teams that flat out lied to get thier kids seeded higher in subs. One of them was a bracket that had no affect on any of my kids but was a kid I know very well. The other I was not aware of until a parent on my team pointed it out to me this week. I know it is to late to make any changes but it is very wrong of these other coaches to do and im not sure if it should be confronted or just let die. Let me know your thoughts please!

it will get settled saturday i agree it is wrong but remember cheaters never win

I agree but it got 2 kids seeded on the same side that sould not meet till the finals!

dont know why some clubs do thati went to a event this year and the home club had half their team double dipping in open and novice split session the kid that was in my sons bracket had placed in 16 open tournaments and placed third in state it was a differnt state but by no means was he novice and guess what that kid won the novice bracket he was in what is that teaching your kids how to cheat but as for your two kids i hope they both make it to districts good luck just let it go it will all work itself out

would like to know what the flat out lie was, I know east kansas posted alot of state qualifiers,state placers, and they really wher not. Could be mistake by club director when entering wrestler. Who Knows. Have names but would rather have u check urself. Good luck, hope it works out for u.

Just because it will work itself out doesn't make it right!!

There is no reason for me to recheck but thanks. It was a kid that wrestled 6 and under all year and my kids dad showed me the brackets on kis computer. The other one is a member of my family that wrestles at another club.

No it doesn't but till every tournament is on track wrestling not really any way to stop it. You can look and any sub district and find kids that are listed as a's seeded below kids listed as b's . One bracket is an eight man with the a's and b's meeting in the first round and the c's and d's meeting in the first round. Makes me wonder what the coaches were thinking.

It will not matter if it is all on track or not.Looking at some of the kids now,I see some that say state place when they where 2 and out.This is on track.

It happens. If nobody is there to argue for a kid or the coach can't remember match ups then a kid can get seeded lower. I saw some coaches trying to bully others for a seed or other coaches not speak up and then complain why somebody didn't get seeded. It's a crap shoot and lots of times the priority is to seperate 1 and 2 and not give a lot of thought on 3 and 4. Sometimes coaches who yelled a name out got a seed if nobody said anything. That's not right but that's how it went for some weight and age groups.

Things don't go the way we want but it usually works itself out on the mat. One year my boy got seeded 4th when he should have been 2. Coach just didn't know the names of kids he beat head to head. I am sure the opposing coaches weren't volunteering info. In the end it worked itself out at state by beating our districts #2 seed to make the finals.

I'd say don't beat yourself up about seeds. At the national level, seeded kids get knocked off all the time. Good wrestlers find away.

Most at the seeding know who is and who isn't a state placer so would have to imagine it came up. Some confusion was State Placer was for 2009 state not career. Regardless the records themselves are just by honor system which not everone is on the same page. When I send ours in I simply ask the parents what they are and i have no way to tell if thier being honest. When i do my sons I count all wrestling Every state, every age, every weight etc. Some only count KS and no out of state cause it makes the record look good. I don't know

My question is what do it matter at this stage of the game? 1,2,3,4 seed who gets which as long as the four are seperate. One thing I kept hearing was a debate for 1or2 no head to head well billy gets 1 joey gets 2 its basically a coin flip. My question is whats the real diffence between 1 and 2 as long as thier seperated but some really didn't like thier kid was No.2

Maybe this shouldn't be decided by coaches; maybe by an unbiased committee. You turn in your wrestlers information (where track wrestling should be inplace!). Wrestlers are awarded say points for A,B,C,D status and state placings. It is only fair that an A wrestler see's some benefit from that status; eventhough maybe his record doesn't show it. We all know it is a lot different to wrestle A wrestlers all day, then C and D wrestlers all day! Head to head competition is hard to included when some wrestlers are not seen in a bracket all season, before showing up in the sub brackets.
If a coach isn't at the meeting, his information (or letter) should have been disreguarded! Especially, if proven untrue.

Maybe thats where the confusion is. I dont ask the parents what the kids record or accomplishments are( I Know). Olathe South Falcons. (a true kids club)

r u serious, guess thats what east kansas did too

just wondering for myself what does a (a true kids club) mean?

So is what your telling me is that even though your at say tulsa. And the rest of the club goes to a diffent tournament your still able to without a doubt keep track of all your kids records. WOW you are a real kids club. Johnson County gets all the good stuff. Geniuses, Starbucks, Abercrombie & Fitch and you super coach amazing simply amazing. Just when I thought I could be proud of being from Wyco. You come along and totally prove me right thanks

hey hotrodder you said it also whats a real kids club i am up late trying to figure this one out

on none of the clubs websites can i find that term

It comes down to integrity, saying a kid was a state qualifier when he was 2 and out at subs, not using most recent info,the buddy system- you know, you help my kid and i'll help yours, my god there are clubs out there that don't even weigh their own kids in for the tourny they host. It all comes down to what you want to teach your kids- the right way or the wrong way.

Then all the "unbiased" committee has to figure out is who attended the tougher tournaments and/or wrestled the toughest competition.

My youngest son Isaiah took 3rd at 8-75 tulsa kick off last year. We enter him in tulsa nationals at 8-85 same year. I get there & look at the bracket & he has #1 seed wrestler first match! He wins the match & wins tulsa nationals. After this happend I realized seed dont mean nothing. I like a low seed. Lets wrestle the best in the bracket first & its down hill from there

The best time for an upset is first round! Good luck to all!

Never judge Kansas seeding by the seeding that goes on at Tulsa! You know going in, the local favorite is going to get favorable seeding at Tulsa.

The kid was from Colorado. Not comparing sport0 just giving my opinion on seeding. good luck to all sat.

I'm not sure what you're hang-up is with East Kansas? You rip them 2x in your blogs here. You know one reason they list a lot of state placers, etc. They have them! This club is run by Eric Akin and Travis Phippen. Both collegiate all-americans. But more than that - if they say a kid has accomplished a certain achievement [fill in the blank] - they have - period. I think you would think differently if you really knew them. They are great honest people and great coaches .. and my friends.

As was I!

Jon,
What you said is true, but don't worry, we'll see what he says when they bring home the team trophy.
Bob

East Kansas has 59 kids going to subdistricts! I think that spells "true club"! I believe that is why we prepare all season and why we are here to get our club's competitors to the championships right? Why worry about a seeding if your kid is good and can beat a kid that got a better seeding just show up and prove it!
LETS WRESTLE!!!

Melissa Gowin

Seeding won't mean anything Saturday Evening. No one will care who the first seed was or who was the last seed. Lets just be nice and settle everything on the mats on Saturday. Let the wrestlers show everyone who is who.

Good luck to all

If seeds are that important to a wrestlers, coach, or parent. Then they need to do their homework and have it ready for when it comes to seeding mtgs. When i say homework have your facts right. I keep record of every match i boys wrestle. That include result if the match and in order it happened. as well i have every bracket to reference if need be. When and if i go to a seeding mtg and a controversary arises. I asked what they would like to see. If it involves my boys i have that on a piece of paper..tourny and opponent with result. If they are talking about other in the bracket i pull out previous and we look at. They will find scored of every match and possible common opponents if need be. Unless you have all the homework in front of you to use for your cause dont complain..just go out and like others have stated let the wrestlers decide results. once the whistle blows there are no more seeds.

Don't make accusations if you ain't gonna back it up. That's lame to calling out our club and then say you're not gonna say any specific names. Maybe you just don't want to put your money where your mouth is.

Irony of it is that you guys frequently have one of our coaches come run practices for your club.

Last I checked there were no seeding meeting medals, and the cream will always rise to the top no matter what the seeds are. But regardless of the seeding order there will always be those that whine over it.

We will wrestle anyone, anywhere, any round!

So all smack talk aside. . . be assured that we ain't comin' to talk smack. We're comin' to smack talkers!

... and that's why we love ya brutha!!

It's a fact...you want names, here's one......
Drake Mills 8 and under 61 this year and lastyear was 8 and under 55. He went 2 and out at districts. Here's the proof

http://www.twnode5.com/opentournaments/B...amp;templateId=

You guys have him as a state placer at the seeding meeting paperwork. Cut the above into your browser and check for yourself. I'm at work and will provide more later!!! Just be honest, the cream always rises to the top!!!!

He actually went 1 and 2. Sorry! Both are wrong

Maybe it just means at the end of each weekend; JKelz makes sure he knows how each of his wrestlers finished! and where they competed. They are a team!

Unless the Cream is put in a corner and then it spoils and turns to crap.

How about this to teach the coaches and parents a lesson. If they lie about whether they are a qualifier, placer,etc... and get caught pull them from the tourny.

What if it wasn't a lie...what if it was an honest mistake? Do you punish the kid because of an adult error?

punish them all. punish everyone. well except the refs.

thats right leave the refs alone...its their judgement

Your coaching resume doesn't mention your integrity. You are missing the point; blaming everyone else. The complaints came from comments your representatives (since you sent a letter) made about other wrestlers..but your wrestlers were lying about stats. You have wrestlers that wrestle in say 10u all year, but enter 8u for subs! Should that record count? Would a real competitor wrestle at 10u? Should a state championship count from a differnt weight bracket??!! I would have to think so!! Seeding doesn't really mean much, I agree, much it should be accurate...and FAIR!!
Teach your wrestlers to be great athletes as well! Sportsmanship is very important!

Whoa, wait a minute. Are you suggesting kids should not wrestle up in age during the season or that if they do so, it means they are less competitive?

schroeder ive seen u in action u never leave the refs alone LOL

as long as they are giving 100% like we ask our wrestlers to do and what our parents expect from us coaches then they are fine. i see to many times officials are slow to get a count or they dont anticipate movement. I seen last weekend from an official decked out in tulsa nationals stripes not count near fall til he was down on the mat. I asked if there was a reasone not to count in your head as soon as the wrestler gets put into near fall criteria. He said he needed to get the mat and check. lol. i said check what and can see from you feet correct. he then said its my judgement... i laughed and said there you go.

I AGREE WE NEED MORE COACHES LIKE YOU TO KEEP EM ON THEIR TOES

In response to:
Poster: WRESTLING1976
Subject: Re: seeding meetings

To clarify Drake Mills has wrestled as an "A" all year and has only 2 KS losses which were at Salina 1 in OT to the 1st place winner. By stating his loss record I am justifying why he has been wrestling as an "A". There must have been an assumption there that he was a placer/qualifier which he wasn't. It didn't have an effect on his seeding his seed was based on his record. Thank you to Akin/Phippen and our East Kansas Family. We are very proud to be part of this team. Just let the comments roll off, stay focused and get ready for Saturday its an exciting time for the kids!!!

East Kansas wrestlers are tough. Every time my sons wrestle one its a dog fight. Love the competition. East kansas coaches always respectful.It dont matter what seed they get!!! Many of thier wrestlers will be on the podium at state. Thats not a prediction its a fact. See you at matside.

Yes, not necessarily & yes.

You ask would a real competitor wrestle at 10u? You've got to be kidding. Are you suggesting that a wrestler who wrestles up a division during the year to get the best competition should also wrestle up at state? Is that even allowed? Maybe all of the best wrestlers should wrestle up both age and weight to make it fair for everyone else. Isn't that what everyone wants, equality for everyone? Sounds like you may need to switch to a different sport. Soccer might be your best choice. They don't even keep score until age 10.

Thanks for all the interesting input! I have no problems with the kids sorting it out on the mat and the best kid coming out on top. My only issue was with the few that make choices to be untruthful and for what reason? To avoid competition! The finals at subs really is just a stepping stone to a state title. I just get agrivated by the small few bad apples. Good luck to all and I hope my kids can win a few matches this weekend!

I found one wrestler that said he was a state placer. The wrestler has never even been to state. The wrestler received a 2nd seed. The wrestler was a placer at ottawa though.

Wrestlers may not wrestle up an age division at State.

If that is an 8U kid I bet they meant the wrestler had placed at 6U state. Another reason no tournament should be allowed to use the term "state" in it's title.

you are all making way too much out of this.

how many kids does a club need to go to subdistricts to be considered a "true club"! ? is there a limit lets say you only have 40 kids going does that mean your not a "true club"! ?

just trying to figure out what a true club or a true kids club is.?

WOW!!!!!!!!!! All this from people that it doesn't even affect. Sounds as if you deserve a seed and were cheated out of one, it really shouldn't matter come saturday! So my suggestion is for all you grown ups to put your best interesrt in to your kids. Because come saturday they either show that a seed doesnt matter or lose and be done! Honestly to me i have a little boy who was a first year wrestler that didnt get a seed and ended up beating the number 2 seed and the number 4 seed to place third and move on in the series. Oh yea and we ended up at the state tournament as a no seed! So i think all this arguing is kinda childish. So you all should grow up and just let our kids decide the outcome. If it were up to me we would just put names in a hat and draw, that would get rid of all this stupidity!!!!!!!!!!!!! JUST MY TWO CENTS!!!!!!!!

I will definitely admit my mistake in wording on that one! I don't hold the definition of "true club"! That gentleman said he holds the records of all kids within his club. My point was supposed to be...with 59 kids signed up for subs I think it would be hard for any coach to hold the records on every single kid when they all go to different tournaments throughout the year, therefor you must rely on parents to give you the correct wrestlers information or at least verify the information you have. East Kansas has a large amount of kids signed up for subs that were not even with the club last year, so again you would rely on parents to give you the information on their kids record. I know I don't have all kinds of time on my hands to search every kids record. I would of thought if there were any errors in how a kid was entered that it would've been hashed out at a seeding meeting. Good Luck to ALL!

we used to keep every kids records too, but we didn't know who they wrestled. i would like to see your records, so you can prove that you know every match, every opponent. that's the only true way to seed the tourney exactly, but it's simply impossible.

Way to go Jason. Looks like we'll need to put together a coaches dual between Eask Kansas and Olathe South. You drew Akin in the open match. I'll take Phippen in the battle of cervical MRIs. I think he has me in C6 but I know I have him in C7.

Sounds like ...The Dual of the "True Kids Club!"

I like that idea Brian, but I want to go in with a two scramble limit, because that is all I'm good for any more.

In all honesty Jason is a great guy and if we had a couple of kids listed incorrectly that's our bad and I'm glad someone called us out, helps us to know to do our homework as a club next year. I guarantee we didn't do it maliciously. In looking I don't think it would have changed a seed anyway. Honestly, Eric and I left after we turned in our sheets and only gave our coaches instruction to seperate our guys. I don't believe in seeding meetings. I don't even tell my son about seeds he just goes out to wrestle. The goal is to win state. If the goal was to get a seed or a ranking then we wouldn't compete. We all have these tough little guys wrestle to win not to get ranked or seeded. Too many parents and some coaches get too wrapped up into seeds. Keep the eye on the prize and what the goals are. I still say I have always had a joy in working with multiple clubs and kids around the state and appreciate the time I get to work with everyone. I think most kids have the right idea they know who is tough they don't look at a bracket to determine it by where someone is at on it. Good luck to everyone including our friends from Olathe South. However, I do not wish Massey luck in our match as he is older and in better shape than me. But I'm better looking.

well put.

Massey you are our "Celebrity!"