Qualifilers NOT moving on to State

PLEASE contact us IMMEDIATELY if you are not planning on moving on to Kids State this next weekend.

These are the ones we have been notified of as of 1:00 pm on Sunday --

District 1 -
HS 215# - Eric Mason STA

District 2 -
8U 52# - Whitney Quandt
8U 110# - Mason McDaniel, Wellington
10U 79# - Jack Maki, Wichita Wrestlng Club



Contact either Ned Price (913) 426-0070, Tom Richard (785) 564-0203, or Leanna Buckley (785) 632-1887


This makes changes on the brackets / names in the program book, etc. SO CONTACT US IMMEDIATELY!!

Brackets will be released at 5:00 pm

Leanna Buckley

To bad about Whitney. She was fun to watch

Additional Changes - Wrestlers NOT GOING ON!!

District 4 --

8U 110# - Jackson Becker

12U 165# - Drew House, Goodland

HS 145 - Derrick Schmittker, Hugoton

HS 285# - Jared Rice



District 3 -

HS 130# - Dylan Moore, Concordia

HS 145# - Courtney Strauss, Abilene

(District 3 - these are from parents calling -- STILL WAITING ON LANCE ENGEL TO GIVE US CHANGES -- CALL US PLEASE PARENTS!!!!)



Brackets will still be released at 5:00 pm BUT CHANGES WILL BE MADE after that time --



Leanna Buckley

Whitney is wrestling a girl national tournament in Oklahoma City next weekend, Good Luck Whit!

From what I was told a few years ago, there are only four spots from each District tournament that go to State. At that time, there were no alternates, therefore, no wrestling for the 5th/6th place match (to decide an alternate). If this is still the rule, why would a kid wrestle in the State Tournament series that isn't planning on going to State? When I saw this post, I figured that these kids got injured and could not go on. Maybe some of them did, and if that is the case, I feel bad for them. If that is not the case, and you were not planning on wrestling at the State tournament, why take a kid's spot that could (again, unless the rule has changed from a few years ago).

Some of the HS kids did it to qualify for the HS tournament in WV.

This is what I have from District III.

8U 88# Dawson Wuthnow not going on.
10u 58# Chance Hight not going on.
HS 130# Dillon Moore not going on.
HS 140# Danny Floyd not going on.
HS 145# Courtney Strauss not going on.

ReDPloyd, they've had alternates as long as I can remember, but I'm getting old and CRS.

D1 doesn't wrestle for 5th/6th at Districts. I just noticed that the other three Districts do. D1 wrestles 5th/6th at Subs for alternates to go to Districts, but not at Districts. What am I missing out on here?

BLT,

I can normally follow what you are saying, but I am not understanding what you are saying here. Are you saying that some of the HS kids are getting mat time before they go to WV?

The HS wrestlers already had qualified for the Senior Nationals in WV by being HS state placers. This tournament had nothing to do with that. Some continued wrestling to stay in shape for the Senior nationals. In our District they told everyone in their bracket up front so they knew the alternate would be moving on. I know the 20 some years I've been involved D3 always wrestled for alternates to both Districts and State.

over the last few years they have not wrestled for 5th and 6th, due to numerous reasons. if there is an opportunity, they will have the two kids meet and wrestle in the middle of the week. there are very few instances where an alternative has made it in. not saying it doesn't happen, but not often.

district one did wrestle 5th and 6th place at districts after eric told them he wasnt going on to state

Here is the question I asked to one of the state reps back in 2007. D2 had two kids wrestling through Subs and Districts at U12 68, D3 and D4 had three each at Districts. Was it possible that D1, with a full bracket could get more kids through? The answer I got was that only four kids from each District were allowed to go to State. That year my son made State his first time (3rd in an 8-man bracket) and there ended up being 12 kids in his State bracket (four byes).

I put the wrong tournament!!! It was the USA Wrestling's ASICS Folkstyle Nationals.
Yes, some did it for mat time and some had to meet certain requirements in order to be eligable to go!

John,

The only reason I hesitated to comment after the original post is that I saw your son being on the list to not wrestle at State. I have the utmost respect for STA, and after being a part of their wrestling family for the five years before this one, I didn't want to go there. I figured that some wrestlers might have been injured and could not go on. Then I saw the post about the wrestler that was going to a different tournament that weekend. I understood that there were only four spots from each District, and figured that this wrestler took one of them. D1 is the only District that I do not see 5th/6th place matches. We (my son and I) owe a lot to STA and will always be thankful for having the opportunity to be a part of their club.

I had only heard Eric's name on this forum and while following some of the kids at this weight. As I was consoling one of our wrestlers who thought his state dreams were finished, Eric walked up and spoke to our wrestler giving him some positive words and keeping his hope alive. I thanked him and knew immediately he was a "solid" young man! Didn't know who it was until reading these posts today. It didn't work out the way we wanted, but thank you again Eric.

Josh,

With the exception of the year I was gone, I have been to the D1 District tournament five years and do not remember there being a 5th/6th place match. Have the other three districts been wrestling 5th/6th all these years? If they have, why hasn't D1 (just in case)?

So they wrestle to qualify for a USA Wrestling event AFTER the qualifying event is OVER. How is that even legal?

Alright, my bad, I get it now. This is the State Championship, and the best sixteen wrestlers in Kansas get to wrestle for it all. That is, unless your District has eight wrestlers and can only qualify four, while another District has only two and the other two (byes) would beat the 5th/6th place finishers out of your District (even though they don't wrestle for it). This has nothing to do with my son this year as he went two and out in one of the toughest 8-man District brackets in the state. This has to do with filling sixteen spots at the State tournament to see who can win in all. I don't feel real good about writing this as I am normally trying to inject humor in a talk forum about of a very tough sport. I am the idiot for not knowing the rules, if they are the rules, that a District can wrestle an alternate at State while another District can't compete against a bye.

paratroop, thank you for the kind words about eric sorry it didnt work out for your young man. we were watching the match and was pulling for him

Maybe the rules have changed since I posed the question in 2007. If they have, again, I am the idiot for not keeping up. If they have not, then what I am understanding is that a 5th place wrestler at a District tournament can be an alternate at State, while a 5th place wrestler at another District can't wrestle at State when there is a bye in the bracket due to a third District only fielding three wrestlers. If that is the case, I do not concur with the ruling.

Not trying to hijack the thread, but to me this is another reason we should do away with the sub-districts. Full brackets would be a better solution to this and you could get your 5-6 place alternates figured out without leaving anyone out. I think the object here is to get as many kids into State as possible. I can easily see one district having 8 kids in a group and the other 3 districts having only 4-5 between them in the same group. In my opinion they should all be going if your trying to make a true 16 man bracket. But not as the rules are in place now. At least that is how I am understanding all this. Something to think about.

Looked at the 2008 Districts, D1 did not wrestle for 5th/6th while the other three Districts did. Why? Again, it has nothing to do with my son this year since he wasn't in position to be in the top six in his bracket. I am looking for an answer to this question from someone more knowledgeable than I am. The other question is also out there, why can a 5th place wrestler from one District go to State as an alternate when another 5th place wrestler can't because his/her District has filled their quota when another District can't fill their four spots?

lee,
as i stated earlier in the 215 bracket a 5th place match was done in d1 i know it doesnt show it on the bracket but it deffinetly was done.

John,

I believe you 100 percent. I know that STA is proud to have your son wrestling for them. With that said, he has to be a great young man. I am just trying to figure out what the rules for qualifying for Kids State are when it comes to a 5th place alternate versus a 5th place (sorry, but you met your quota for Districts) even though another District only has two wrestlers leaving two byes to determine the best in the state.

In the past ... no district can take more than 4 qualifiers to the State Tournament! I am confident that is still the rule!

In District 1 the Standing Rules were changed years ago to eliminate wrestling for 5th ... except where it was known ahead of time ... that it was needed!

10 - 15 years ago D1 did wrestle for 5th and our tournaments were lasting well past 8 or 9 pm! It was felt this was not needed for the 2 or 3 kids that it might affect!

USAWA Kansas Kids By-laws

Scroll to page 17.
6. The District State Director and his/her two Assistant State Directors will determine the number of qualifiers from Sub-District to District. Each District will have this responsibility.
7. There will be four (4) qualifiers from each District to State.

Last year at Sub-districts, D1 South had a loaded 16-man bracket (15 wrestlers) while D1 North had four in the same age/weight. The fifth place wrestler from D1 South got to wrestle as an alternate at Districts since one of the four from D1 North didn't move on. He not only qualified for State, but went on to win two matches at State. Had this same wrestler finished 5th in Districts if he were allowed to wrestle 5th/6th, he would not have been able to wrestle at State even though there were byes from other Districts that did not send four. Again, I believe that this is the "State" Championship tournament and not just the "Only 4 Wrestlers from Each District" Championship tournament when some Districts can't field four spots.

If alternates were allowed to fill in the spots for other Districts, how would you decide which alternate would get the nod? I can see wrestling for 5th and 6th to possibly fill a spot on your district's 4 available slots. The problem I see, for example, is if District 1 has 4 going, District 2 has 4 going plus wrestled for 5th and 6th. District 3 has 4 going plus wrestled for 5th and 6th. District 4 only has 3 going. How would you determine if the alternate from District 2 or 3 would be the one to fill the open spot on District 4?

Great point!

The alternate has to be from that district or it is left open.

Sudawn,

You are correct, there would not be a way to determine who goes and who doesn't. I am sure that this has been thrown out there before, but one solution might be to scrap all the Sub-Districts, have four true District tournaments, take the best eight from each and wrestle two Sub-States (D1 vs D3, D2 vs D4, or whatever combination), then take the top eight from each Sub-State to wrestle the sixteen man bracket at State.

THE QUESTION I WANT CLEARED UP IS HOW CAN YOU GO THROUGH SUBS AND DISTRICTS KNOWING YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STATE---I'M NOT TALKING HS--- THAT'S JUST WRONG

Maybe this goes back to another thread about redoing the districts. If your brackets are to full or one is not full. Maybe we should redo districts. But alot of you didn't like that idea either. And why if we all have 8 man brackets at district does it take D1 till 7 or 8 to get done if they wrestle for 5th or 6th. Not sure I understand that. If we did away with subs we would have to make district a two day tournament. Some brackets would be 32 man or bigger. At that point to many matches for one day. LOts of problems no matter what you do!!!

you could just take the alternate who scored more points at districts,, and if they scored the same, use subs as the tie breaker,, just an idea!

I still think that the State tournament should have the top sixteen wrestlers in the State going at it. Sure, you are going to have a wrestler or two have an off day or their competition has finally figured out a way to beat them, but when you see two 3-time State placers including one State runner up each (after qualifying for State the last five years) not going to State because their District was loaded, that is another story.

As far as only allowing four wrestlers from each sub go, and the valid question as to how you figure out who from the other Districts would fill open spots from the others, there was a bracket in '07 that went like this D whatever - 2, D whatever - 3, D whatever - 3, and D whatever - 8. So three of the D whatevers send 8 kids to State, the other D - whatever sends their top four. Four byes and then one of the wrestlers doesn't show from the first three (4 byes and a scratch). There might have been an exception to the rule in this instance instead of having an 11 man bracket at State. I realize this doesn't happen a lot, but in this case there were some kids that were the in the top sixteen for their age/weight and didn't get the opportunity to wrestle State.

As far as a wrestler going to Subs and Districts (knowing ahead of time they had no intention of going to State if they qualified), well that it just insane. I realize young kids often don't know better, and sometimes their parents know even less, or worse yet did know better but did it anyway, but the club coaches and their club officials allowing this to happen (if they knew, which very possibly they didn't)? Sure the kid that wrestled for 5th and won got to move on from Districts, but how about the kid that finished 5th at Subs?

Meanwhile there is another District that fielded a four man round robin where one wrestler goes 0-3 and another goes 1-2. I will concede that the top two from that bracket would have had an excellent shot at moving on to State regardless of their District bracket.

I like it! We could actually split up the competition age wise between two or three sites (take your pick of Wichita, Salina, Topeka, Hays and rotate them each year) to eliminate the overcrowding and to keep it down to a two day tournament. I would think that it would be possible to cut even the biggest brackets to sixteen at some point (and then the real State tournament begins). Cuts down on traveling three weekends (gas, hotel/motel, entry fees, etc.) and knocks two weeks from the season for those that think the season is too long. Logistically, it would probably be tough (the seeding meeting could last an entire day alone). Overall, I could see the benefits outweighing the obstacles to make it happen.

Actually Lee, when I stopped to look at the numbers after I posted that I saw my mistake so I deleted the post. We started with approx 4500 wrestlers at Subs and have whittled it down to approx 1500. So, basically you would end up with one of the largest kids if not the largest kids tournament in the country. Just don't think we could pull it off. Even without the HS Div the numbers would still have been way to high. Also, while I like your idea about diff locations, most teams do not have enough coaches to spread out like that. Certainly would break up the monotony of going to Topeka though.

Hossus,

I am glad that we have a forum to discuss these issues. It is a venue that we can share ideas, learn from each other as we try to find a better way, and in the end, try to do what is best for the wrestlers who put so much time and effort (not to mention the blood, sweat and tears) into this sport. This is by far the toughest sport for kids and young men in my opinion. I think even the collegiate and Olympic wrestlers have it a little tough at times:-}.

Just a correction...

The Juniors and Seniors who are going to NHSCA Nationals better be going to Virginia Beach, VA, NOT WV (West Virginia)!

You know i think everyone on this thread has a valid point! But you all need to just be thatynkful that we still have kids wrestling in kansas, cause it is stuff like this that will drive it completely away! All im saying is just be thankful that your son opr daughter has somewhere to wrestle instead of crying and arguing about things that will probably never even change! Just my 2 cents!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For those who think that wrestling at sub-districts and districts with no intention of going to state is just plain wrong or insane, you need to consider what the purpose of youth wrestling is. Is it not to gain experience for the next level? Is wrestling two tournaments instead of staying home better than sitting around the house doing nothing? If knowing ahead of time that a young man would not be wrestling at state and informing the 5th placer he could advance allowing him to wrestle is a bad thing, please explain it to me. It seems like a win-win situation to me with everyone getting to wrestle more and in the long run, hopefully, becoming better wrestlers.

just think about it- if those who would not attend state were not in subs the bracket would have been totally different- maybe different turn outs- knowing all along that you would not move on and still attend subs and dist is just plain selfish

If they only attend subs does that make them less selfish?

You are welcome to answer your own question. I am honestly curious what you think.

This can be a touchy subject, but if you sit back and look at it, it isnt.

Why is a kid not moving on when they qualified? Do you know the reason? When was the decision made? Do you know the circumstances?

There is one wrestler mentioned on this thread, that I assure you is not selfish and is a great benefit to this sport that is not moving on. I fully support their decision and wish the best for the 5th place wrestler that gets a shot at the state tournament.

Sub-districts are open to ALL in the sub-district, there is no exclusion. There are procedures in place to handle a placer not moving on to either Districts or State. So bluntly, what is the issue?

It may not matter to the older age groups but it does for 8&under!!! You could of had a great 6 year old that could have gotten to state-----I'm sure they are all benefits to wrestling?! But... they should have let it stop at subs and come clean with thier intentions---

If a kid that qualifies for state does not go to state, the 5th place kid GOES TO STATE. Noone gets screwed.

IT STARTS AT SUBS!!!

Chances are that the 5th place kid at subs won't be the 5th place kid at Districts, but I guess it could happen.

Yes it does happen. Coby Burchett from Fort Scott finished 5th at subs, got a call for districts and is now heading for State! He is also a first year wrestler....Ya, we are proud of him.

2007 6u37# 6th. 2008 6u43# 5th. 2009 8u46# 4th these are all state places. 2010 8u52# sub 2nd. 2010 8u52# dist 2nd. Wow. 16 wrestlers, 32 parents, 32 coaches, 64 grandparents that can say didn't get beat by that girl at state in 2010. My son has wrestled her and each time I hold my breath because it can happen. Look up those facts and see the names with hers great wrestlers. A national place would look great Good luck WQ. The idols

Sounds like a terrific young wrestler. I wish her the best in Oklahoma City. Call me old school, or just call me old, but tournament matches are not for practice. I especially believe that this holds true when you get to the State series of tournaments where it can alter the outcome of a bracket at Subs, and ultimately at Districts.

I know that there are some that disagree with me, maybe many, and I am fine with that. I am also fine if people disagree with my belief that tournament matches are not for practice during the season either. If your wrestler can pin an opponent in the first thirty seconds of the match, then they should pin them (unless it a gracious gesture like we had earlier this year with the young wrestlers that were courageously battling a challenge that most of our children have not had to face). A tournament match is not where you should be practicing your moves, getting up 13 or 14 on your opponent before finally pinning them or tech falling them. That is what practice is for, thus the name practice.

and not only is it Coby Burchett's first year ever but he is only 6. As a parent I don't care if he gets smoked his first two matches, I just want him to get the experience of state to make him hungry for next year. But we thought we were done after subs after placing 5th. We would have never imagined that he would have placed at districts and he did so who knows??????

DISTRICT II WRESTLES THROUGH 5/6. IT'S NOT WRONG, 5TH WILL GO IN HER PLACE! CHILL OUT, I CAN TELL YOUR EXCITED BY POSTING IN ALL CAPS!

YES I WAS TRYING TO GET MY POINT MADE- AS FOR YOUR POST... YES District II wrestled to 5/6 but and I AM ASSUMING you are talking about HER then she should have stopped at sub and let the 5th placer go onto dist---that is what is wrong--and I agree that subs and dist are not practice grounds!

ARE YOU HAPPY? I chilled out

TO ADD ON... We did watch this little girl wreslte at subs because we were told she was an up and coming wrestler- kudos to HER she was impressive but... this thread was not to bash HER but to ask the question why even wrestle for state if they had all the intentions BEFORE not to go to state!!! That goes for everyone who did this

And to the IDOLS??!!! Thanks for the stats!

For the life of me I think this thread is ridiculous! It is sour grapes at best.

So you would allow your kid to wrestle even thought you knew he was not moving on?

Of course, and our club did have a wrestler who knew he wouldn't be at districts the following week. I'm sure many clubs had the same situations. Our wrestler placed so someone moved on in his absence. He paid his card money and entry fee just like anyone else, no reason to deny him the opportunity to wrestle.

Your club did the right thing and took care of the situation at subs- that's awesome-- that's the way it should happen.

It's time for you to get over this and move on, because this is a battle you are NEVER going to win.

USAWKS will NEVER tell a competitor that they are not allowed to wrestle in a post-season tournament even if their intention is not to continue on in a following week. And to bash a young man or women for coming out and competing, is pretty low.

So are there any updates on kids that will not be going? Sorry to get back on topic like this. Just trying to go to the show

how is one informed that there is an opening or that a kid didnt make weight etc. etc. does the 5th place kid need to be there friday just waiting??

we had one kid not make it past subs. it wasnt until the night of weigh ins that we found out that a kid had broken his arm on monday that our kid could wrestle. he showed up to weighins with his brother when he got the news. he had to cut 1.5 lbs in 2 hours. no big deal but it would be nice for those clubs to let everyone else know before the day of weigh ins that the kid wasnt going to get to move on. since they knew on monday and didnt say anything until friday i thought was kind of crappy. but knowing there was another kid in that bracket from the same club that the kid broke his arm was from i now know why they didnt say anything. our kid wrestled at districts and made it through which was the good thing. so there are instances that the alternate thing works out.

Bockman - Make sure you have all the facts before calling a club out. Devin hurt his hand Monday, finished practice and also came back on Tuesday and practiced. Hand swelled up and we knew that it wasn't just injured. Parents took him in to Doctor Wednesday and found out it was broken. We contacted Bishop Carroll on Thurdsay to let them know. After that I don't know what happened. I'm also a little bothered by your other comment about our other wrestler. What exactly are you trying to imply there?

not calling anyone out. just telling you what we were told. if thats not right then maybe you want to talk to me about it in person or talk to the people who told us. i will not discuss it on here but i will be at state and you can approach me if you have any questions about who and what we were told.

I'm not sure what your complaint was then.