JST LET THEM FINISH THE SEASON !!!!!!!

First I want to Thank!!The Hugoton Wrestling Club for all they have done. I am writing this to inform and let as many people know how UNFAIR the Kansas Board was to 8 wrestlers that belong to the Hugoton Club for the last 3 years. We got a letter from the board of Kansas that we (8 wrestlers ) would not be allowed to enter any of the State tournments this year. On the decision they had made in January. Im fine with that and understand rules are rules but not in the middle of the season when in October we were let in, we bought KS cards paid our dues and did all that we were asked to inorder to be able to wrestle KS.Yes we do live in Oklahoma Panhandle (were there is nothing wrestling wise) but we have never hidden that from no one.We practice twice a week in Hugoton, We travel all of Kanas every week.I understand both sides, and would of understood all of it if they would of told us back in OCT NO!then there wouldnt of been a issue. Ours kids work hard and are in total shock they were given hope in OCT and all that was taken AWAY!!There Season CUT SHORT!!! AND TO ME THATS WRONG!!!!!!THEY ARE KIDS LET THEM FINISH!!!!!!!

There will never be wrestling to speak of in the western part of Oklahoma unless you get busy wrestling down there and build some interest in it. By going to the Oklahoma qualifiers you just might help that happen!

If they let the eight kids from oklahoma do it this year whats to say there wouldnt be sixteen next year.

These kids wrestle in Kansas they practice here. They go to tournaments here. They spend their money here. It's not like they haven't been at out tournaments. Let them WRESTLE!!!!!!!!!!!

can you still wrestle oklahoma state??

We can not wreslte Oklahoma one they started last week or this week.OKlahoma dosnt even have our aera on the map when it comes to State. Plus we all have KS CARD.SO our kids are DONE.. As far as next year i can see us doing some thing esle due to the rule change, and our kids LOVING THE SPORT but this year all I ask be far to the kid that has it on his wall as a GOAL "MAKE IT TO KS STATE MEET" THANKS

If they did not want Oklahoma kids wrestling in KS then dont give them a card and let them wrestle 90 percent of the season and take there money all year and then pull there card and not let them wrestle for state just because they were actually good. Its just a matter of letting them finish what they were allowed to start. Its not fair to the kids and its to late to wrestle for state in Oklahoma. If its not for the kids then who is it for?

Have these kids been able to wrestle state series before? The post says they have wrestled for Hugoton for 3 years.

We take their money for our ks usa card (should be something in bylaws in there already addressing this), and allow them to start then say No?!?!? I understand we don't want to open the flood gates. If you allowed a ks card with a OK address then these boys should be allowed to finish this year. I know these folks and they own land in KS. Doesn't being a land owner make you a resident?

If you start you should be allowed to finish.

They have been allowed to wrestle for state in the past years and were told they could at the start of this season and given KS card and then in JAN they changed the by laws and thats when they said NO!

A Post Office Box and we wouldnt be having this conversation!!! But anyone who drives from south of Hugoton to wrestle in Kansas should just get a adda girl pass anyhow, I wasnt sure the land was even settled out there yet.haha

If they were told at the beginning of the year they could, and now they are being told no..........THAT SUCKS.....regardless of your stance on the subject...... very hypocritical.

If they were told they could and have been able to in the past I think they should be able to finish this season and this problem dealt with after season is over, you just can't change the rules in the middle of the season. It would be different if this rule was in place when they bought their cards.

We have been upfront and honest all thru this. And this is what we got.

Very well said jeremy.

No they didn't! The by-laws currently give the executive board the authority to make the decision on all these matters. The executive board decided that you folks from out of state need to be wrestling in your own state qualifiers. I would have thought the people from Oklahoma would have seen this coming, seeing how close the vote on the constitutional admendment, to ban all out of state participants at qualifiers was.

Then the executive board screwed up, this decision should have been made prior to the season starting not half way through. They were willing to sell them cards and take their money in the beginning they should have done the right thing and let them wrestle the season out not screw a bunch of KIDS out of their season. Not one of them had the common sense to say let them wrestle the season out and we will address this issue when the season is over?

So who do we need to call, e-mail, or write to. I know some of these kids and they are good. They make our kids better wrestles. Oklahoma doesn't know they are there. i e-mailed their district rep for western oklahoma. He stated there were no clubs in the panhandle. Texas County had a club at one time and he didn't even know that. So if Oklahoma doesn't want them why can't we take them? Get a po box in hugoton so you can put a kansas address on the state info that would solve the problem.

Yeah we live on the MO/KS border. The very first year my oldest boy wrestled we didn't have a club close enough for us in KS so we wrestled with a MO club. Then we were unable to attend either postseason and didn't know until the time came to participate (even though we were not going to anyway as it was our first year it would have been nice to know that early on). So now that we have started a club in our area we don't have this problem any longer. Nevertheless, these kids, parents, and the club have been swindled by being allowed to purchase KS cards, previously participate in KS postseason tourneys, and now have the carpet pulled out from under them. Let's have a little common sense folks and let them finish the season and address this after the season is over. Seems to me the family has been very forthcoming in making sure the KS Board knew they were in OK with an OK address and it has been allowed. This is pure fraud on the part of the board if they do not allow these kids to participate (they should be grandfathered in for this season). I understand the reasoning behind not wanting to "open the flood gates" either but that is not the situation here. Do you think that a bunch of OK, MO, NE, or CO kids are gonna run out and buy KS cards this week so they can be in the KS tournaments as soon as you say yes to these 8 kids? Let's be realistic. They finish the season and the family fixes their dilemma by either starting a club where they are or providing a KS address and the board fixes their dilemma by making sure this bylaw is addressed for next season and don't make exceptions. That is the only proper move to take in my opinion!! Good luck to you 8 kids, I hope you get to participate!!

LET THEM WRESTLE!!!!!

I’m confused by the statements that just because they have a USA Wrestling card they should be able to wrestle in our state qualifiers and state. The USA Wrestling card is a “USA” wrestling card not only good in KS but in all states that belong to USA Wrestling. These cards are a requirement for you to participate in any sanctioned tournament throughout the year in KS but does not entitle you to participate in the qualifying tournaments. We have kids from all over the country that come to KS to wrestle throughout the year and each of them buys a “USA” Wrestling card. I hope your aren’t advocating that these kids are entitled to participate as well. Bottom line, the issuance of the card is a mute point. If the state powers to be told this club and out of state kids that they would be allowed to participate then that is a separate matter.

We tried to get this issue resolved at the State body meeting. We tried to change our bi-laws to only allow Kansas wrestlers, the State body voted that down. The State body decided to leave it in the hands of the Executive board each year. This means that in January if we receive the request we must vote on whether to allow out of State wrestlers. The consensus was if we allow wrestlers from Oklahoma, we would need to allow Missouri and Nebraska. The best way to handle this is in October at the board meeting. Blame the board if you like, the State body had the opportunity to deal with this issue.

We tried to get this issue resolved at the State body meeting. We tried to change our bi-laws to only allow Kansas wrestlers, the State body voted that down. The State body decided to leave it in the hands of the Executive board each year. This means that in January if we receive the request we must vote on whether to allow out of State wrestlers. The consensus was if we allow wrestlers from Oklahoma, we would need to allow Missouri and Nebraska. The best way to handle this is in October at the board meeting. Blame the board if you like, the State body had the opportunity to deal with this issue.

When you got your cards in October did someone tell you that your situation would be reviewed in January and that there would be a chance you wouldn't get to go to State? Did they give you the cards on the grounds that you had a chance of getting to go to State after the review in January?
I'm not taking sides but I would like to know both sides.


Mark Butcher

While I cannot speak to what may or may not have been said by the Hugoton club to these Oklahoma wrestler's and their parents I can tell you in Oklahoma they take Kansas wrestling money in October and November and the Oklahoma Kids State Championship is only open to Oklahoma residents.

Our championship is the USAW "KANSAS" Kids State Championship, not the Kan-Okla Championship.

If these wrestlers were misinformed back in October by the Hugoton Club, the problem lies with the Hugoton Club.

As I recall, three years ago the Hugoton Club requested an Oklahoma wrestler be allowed to participate in the Championship Series and was denied. My recollection is that last year was the first season in which the Oklahoma wrestler's petition to participate in the Championship Series was approved, by a very slim margin at the Executive Council meeting. This year, Districts 1, 2 and 3 voted unanimously to not allow out of state wrestlers to participate.

Our bylaws are very clear on the requirements to participate in the State Championship Series and I believe the Oklahoma families were well aware of the requirements, they were well aware the Executive Council meeting was to be held in January, and the Oklahoma families failed to check on their status to wrestle in the Oklahoma State Championship Series.

So with this coming out last week I had posted a question on the forum about wrestling cards. I have a group of boys that I took to a preseason tournament in MO. Our club was not available to buy cards from so we purchased them at the tournament in MO. When the HS season is over some of them plan to westle for the kids club in our area and qualify for Ks state tournament. Will we have to buy new cards in KS?

Thanks Richard. That makes alot more since.

Mark Butcher

Providing your cards were purchased for the current wrestling season (2010-2011), they are good for the USAW Kansas Kids State Championship Series.

I am originally from southwest ks and we all know how hard it is to get numbers in our clubs down there, and now we have some wrestlers willing to travel to support our small ks clubs and now we shoot them down like this. This will eventually start hurting our tournament numbers in our small southwest ks clubs as this word gets out the northern Oklahoma and eastern Colorado teams may start going elsewhere and that will hurt numbers for our clubs.

We spend a lot of money at tournaments in Oklahoma every year knowing that we can't participate in the Oklahoma State tournament. Colarado and Oklahoma kids were all over the brackets in the Maize tournament. Nothing is ever going to change because of 8 (OUT OF STATE) kids that didn't get to wrestle in a (KANSAS) tournament.
Rules are rules! If the guys behind the desks decide to let the boys wrestle then so be it. They made a decision so deal with it and go on.

Mark Butcher

I like rules. Rules keep people safe from people like me. LOL

Mark Butcher

The kids from Oklahoma have been participating in our State Series since the 09 qualifiers, and every year since.

"it's a rule not to feed your child their pet!"

baaaaah!

as i am all for letting any kid from other states enter ks tournaments, I am 100% against letting them wrestle in our state series.

where do you draw the line, you let one or two in next your going to have colorado, oklahoma and missouri state champs competing against our kansas kids in the kansas state tournament.
we already have that it's called a national event.

you really can't allow 1 out of state kid in then tell another one no. jmo

so lets keep it very simple, yes out of state kids are more than welcome to enter tournaments in the state of kansas, but no you will not be allowed to wrestle in our state tournament this tournament is for kansas kids only.

YES!!
WELL SAID!

Do you like pork chops????

Very well stated Nix.

there is not no rule stateing that! when the pet goes there is still good meat on that animal.

The final decision should have been made in October!!! Before they bought their cards. Its 8 kids, a unique situation. Are we scared!!! Let them wrestle in KS.

going to go out on a limb here. and say thats probaly not it.

i think in regards to the 8 from hugoton we can and maybe should make an exception for this year and this year only and allow them to wrestle in the state tournamnet ONLY IF,

THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WRESTLE IN THE OKLAHOMA STATE TOURNAMENT DUE TO WRESTLING FOR A KANSAS CLUB. IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO WRESTLE IN THE OKLAHOMA STATE TOURNAMENT THEN NO THEY SHOULD NOT WRESTLE IN OUR STATE TOURNAMENT.

THIS EXCEPTION SHOULD ONLY BE MADE THIS YEAR ONLY AND ONLY FOR THESE 8 KIDS.

then let all kansas clubs know that even know they may have out of state kids practiceing with them and wrestling under there club, that they will not be allowed to wrestle in our state tournament unless they live here in kansas. that way there can not be no misunderstanding's in the future.

the key word is live in kansas, you could get a p.o. box in kansas and say hey we live here. you probaly would get away with it and no one would ever know. but that still would not make it right.

and don't get me wrong i do feel bad for you people that are located in the pan handle and near kansas borders you probaly are good people with great kids nothing against any of you. this is just my opinion.

we have MaM saying they were allowed to enter kansas state all 3 years i just want to know were they? richard says 1 year no, next year yes, and this year no.

just how do you decide. i mean 1 year no 2nd year yes 3rd year no. is it a flip of the coin. i could see no, no, and no. i mean how do you decide what years they can enter and what years they can't. i got it odd years they can't even years they can?

sry guys to ramble on, it's late and my mind is going in circles nothing is makeing sense, why would you even let them in last year after saying no the year before. sounds like your just playing games with these folks.

ALL IN ALL THEY SHOULD HAVE NEVER BE ALLOWED TO TAKE PART OF OUR STATE TOUNAMENT ANYWAY!!! WHAT WERE THEY THINKING BY ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!?! SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG HAS IT OR HAS IN NOT ALWAYS BEEN KANSAS STATE TOURNAMENT!!! AND NOT KANSAS, OKLAHOMA, MISSOURI, COLORADO STATE TOURNAMENT???

HECK LET THEM ALL IN AND WE WON'T CALL IT A STATE TOURNAMENT WE WILL CALL IT (WHEATLAND NATIONALS) OR (OZ NATIONALS) BAM THERE WE NOW GO WE GET THAT NATIONAL TOURNAMENT HERE PROBLEM SOLVED. AND INSTEAD OF GIVING OUT A GOLDEN CORNCOB LIKE IOWA WE WILL GIVE OUT A GOLDEN WHEAT STOCK TO THE WINNERS. AND FOR THE BEST KID IN THAT AGE GROUP WE WILL GIVE OUT A GOLDEN TOTO DOG. AND THE BEST TEAM WILL GET A GOLDEN DORTHY. LETS EVEN LAY OUT A GOLDEN BRICK ROAD TO THE PODIUM FOR THE KIDS. THE REF'S COULD DRESS UP AS THE SCARECROW AND THE LION, LADY REF'S COULD DRESS UP AS THE WITCHES. I AM JUST SAYIN

NOW YOU OAKIE'S NOW KNOW WHAT TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION FEEL'S LIKE. GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL ON THIS OUTCOME.

Jeff:

It is entirely possible I may have my dates confused and perhaps it was in 2008 we did not allow the Oklahoma wrestlers to compete and the board in a close vote, did allow their participation in 2009 and 2010. Again, our Constitution is very clear on the petition process for out of state kids and there was NO promise made in October to allow participation in the KANSAS Kids State Tournament.

One of the quirks of our board is District 4, do to their geographic size has one additional voting member than the other three districts. Districts 1, 2, and 3 have greater population numbers.

I am the mother of 3 of these 8 wrestlers that were voted out no for state this year...richerad is wrong ....this is our 3rd year to be a part of the hougoton club....and one of my sons participated in the state tournament 2 years already....so no....we did not get voted out one year...and then last year a no...its been a yes......yes.......than. a no.!!!!!!! And as for wrestling in oklahoma. State tournament.....we have never even been to a regular one..... we travel with our club....hougoton.

Yes sir u do have your dates mixed up....because again I am the mother of 3 of these wrestlers that they said no to....and my son has participated in the kansas state tournament for the past two years!!!!! The hougoton club has not informed us any wrong....the same 4 families have been with the hougoton club for the past 2 years...this will be the 3rd season....no more no less.!!! The club has done no bad....and has taken us in as their own...wonderful ppl...and part of our wrestling family.....

well u recall wrong then because two years in a row my boy has participaed in the kansas state tournament...my boys are the 3 of those 8 boys fron hougoton.and to clear it up ....no the club did not misinform us....we were told by the board directly that it would be voted on again this january....but this was our 3rd year with hougoton so we never guessed we would have gotten denied ...being they aproved the same8 pp Ppl (no more no less)two years prior....

Yes when we got our cards in october they did tell us it would get voted on again in january..a year to year basis they said. But we were approved for the last 2 years....so this year it was shocking to my boys.~and to clear it up....their is problem with the club in informing us....if blam needs to be made but it on the 4 families...the club has been wonderful in. Letting us in....

Just to reply to getting a po box.....yeah we could have just done that and gotten away with it....but we did not ...we have been upfront with the board ....this is our 3rd season...and. we were honsest every yr we purchased our cards along side our hougoton club...this is what u get for being honest!!!!!

momof5,

like i said i am against letting any out of state kids enter our tournament, but in your guy's case if i had any say so i would let you finish the season out. but i don't i am just a pee on in there world.

heres how i feel it should have been done. since they made the mistake of letting you 2 years in a row and start the season again this year. they should have allowed you to finish this year at our state tournament. then informed you starting next year it would not be allowed.

i will never know why they even started letting other kids in our state tournament, but thats not your fault nor your clubs fault. it would entirely be the boards fault on this one. they made a mistake by allowing it in the first place and made a mistake by not allowing you to finish this year. just my opinion

They have wrestled for a ks club for 3 yrs, let them wrestle. This is crazy. It only makes Ks. better. It's not like they are double dipping and going to Ok. state also.
They supposedly can't. So where do these kids get to wrestle state at????

There were many reasons for this rule...it is primarily to allow kids in boarder communities an opportunity to petition the Board for participation. It also is an avenue for parents with divided residency...where the custodial parent lives out of sate a chance to petition the board to allow an exception. One issue with a rule that is not "black in white", is the uncertainty that it brings. New members of the Board are elected each year...viewpoints on this issue are wide ranging. Those on the board last year and this year were troubled by letting in the Guymon folks...not because there was something wrong with them. I believe they are good people. They just do not reside in KS and they do not attend school here. Last year the vote was very close…with several of those voting in favor (including myself) ultimately saying that last year would be the last year we would vote in favor of letting this group wrestle the State series….the thought was let them finish the year and then that was it; now it is a year later and many are using the same arguments. Last summer, a member who was not on the board petitioned the board to change the bylaws to only allow participation if the wrestlers were residents of the state of KS or attend school here...the change would have basically stripped the board of the authority to allow the exception in any case. The Board voted to send this petition on to the State Body with a recommendation that the bylaws be changed. The State Body voted to leave things as they were. In which case, any individual that wanted to wrestle in the State series who was not a resident of KS or did not attend school here would have to petition the board for a waiver. They Guymon wrestlers did provide the Board with a petition and in January at the Boards winter meeting a vote was taken to not allow participation of the wrestles in question.

Two points of emphasis should be, if the Body would have voted to change the bylaws as requested there would have been clarity of this issue. Second, the Board sent many signals that the politics of this issue were changing prior to our winter meeting. The very close vote in 2010 and the Board recomendation that the bilaws be changed are two very powerfull clues into how the vote in January would go.

I want to make one important point. No one is saying the Guymon club can’t associate with a club in KS. No one is saying they can’t buy USA cards in KS. NO one is saying they can’t practice with KS Clubs or attend KS tournaments. All we are saying by our decision is that they are not eligible to participate in the KANSAS State tournament (at least not this year). In fact, while I cannot speak for the rest of the Board, I personally hope these kids continue to wrestle and I hope their parents bring them to Kansas to wrestle as often as they want…just not at the 2011 State tournament.

Not to rain on anyone's parade but simply having a PO box in a state does not establish residency.

Can someone refresh my memory, didn't the admendment carry by a majority vote but failed to reach the 2/3 required for adoption?

how as a board can you justify picking and choseing what years border wrestlers can or cannot enter the tournament. either you let them all the time, or none of the time. don't play games with these folks it's not right.

as for the custodial parent living in another state, i won't even waste my time on that one why it does not make no sence.
if someone can't figure out why let me know and i will take the time to explain

BREAKING NEWS,

MY WIFE JUST INFORMED ME THAT WE HAVE ADOPTED 8 OKLAHOMA KIDS. AND IF I AM RIGHT WE DO LIVE IN KANSAS.

I thought the state body did vote on this issue in November or October.

Sportsfan02 and Smokeycabin

The body voted on the bylaw change at our Fall meeting. The majority of the clubs present voted to amend the bylaws to only alow Kansas residents or wrestlers who atttend school in the state of KS without exception. However, the majority failed to meet the 2/3 requirement to adopt the bylaw change. The status quo leaves the decison of whether to grant an exception in the hands of the Executive Board.

Yes we did!

Just want to give a shout out to the Hugoton wrestling club and their "adopted" wrestlers. They have been honest and up front on everything they have done. I say let them wrestle!!! Good discussion for both sides, but ultimately we are hurting the kids. I thought we were in this business to help kids. Once again East Kansas is throwing their weight around to those of us in the West.

Troy...keep up the good work with the kids down there. I know you are a great coach and run a very respectable program.

Nix I don't think it can be justified. That is why I support the amendment to NOT allow exceptions at all. As it stands now, I have to use my best judgment in these matters when I cast my vote...as do the other board members. The majority of the board felt that the situation surrounding the Guymon wrestler(s) did not warrant an exemption. I will say that I was asked along with the other board members on appeal if I would reconsider. I do not think anyone on the board changed their vote on appeal. I am sympathetic to the wrestlers, but one board’s decisions in matters concerning exceptions should not bind future boards by precedent.

One question for you...just how many OUT OF STATE wrestlers are you willing to admit to the USAWKS State Tournament?

One question for you...just how many OUT OF STATE wrestlers are you willing to admit to the USAWKS State Tournament?

Exactly...this is what they get for being honest and running a reputable program? Things that make you go Hmmm.

To Nix....
Congrats on the newest additions to your family! It is so wonderful to see people willing to adopt kids in need!

IMO...let them wrestle. They've been wrestling as a KS team all season, they're not going to compete in OK state... They're obviously invested in KS wrestling, so let them wrestle!!

RodeoRef

I never said anyone did anything wrong...I just posed a question that is at the heart of this issue and I did not mean it in a rhetorical way. Do you want to answer the question? Do we cut it off at the 8 Guymon wrestlers? What if they have another family in Guymon that wants to join Hugoton next year..do we include them next year? What about the family that live is KCMO whose uncle coaches in a KS club and the family wants him to wrestle in KS...do we include him? How about the kids in Fall City NE, Burlington CO, St Joe MO, and Bartlesville OK...where is your line in the sand? Do you have one?

The Executive Board has been struggling with this issue for several years. We did not make a decision on a whim. Having been associated with the folks on the board for a few years now, I will say that all of your representatives are reasonable men and women willing to listen to other reasonable men and woman. I appreciate the discussion and I hope my questions will only spawn more lively debate. I know this issue is very personal to some of you. Try to step back and debate the issue without the emotion. I know that discussions on this forrum help shape my opinion on matters; as I am sure it does the other board members.

Mark Stanley

like my other post, i am 100% against letting out of state wrestlers enter our state tournament. and i am with you on the 100% not to allow exceptions at all period. if you don't live in kansas you are not part of our state tourney.

all i am saying is these 8 oakies, have already been allowed 2 years in a row. ( THAT SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE ) to let them finish the season out. then implement the no exeptions rule. and then never to allow it again.

i am not rallying for me or these kids parents, i am rallying for these kids. they worked very hard to get where there at to have there dreams crushed in the middle of the season.

mark i have the up most respect for you and all the other board members and my comments are not meant to show any disrespect.

i just wish this would have been handled in the start of the season, instead of giving the signals, they should have just been told upfront it is not going to happen..

well i have said my peace, so good luck to you oklahoma wrestlers next year on getting to the oklahoma state tournament. tell the kids to keep there head held high.

We did that, only it began last year! For all of the bleeding hearts out there, I would ask, how many Kansas kids are wrestling in neighboring state tournaments?

the neighboring states probaly have never allowed it to begin with. i don't know how it begin last year, please tell us.

as i recall at the start of the wrestleing season 2010, they say they sent them signals that it probaly would not be allowed. but finally said no in january 2011 that would be this year.

they were allowed last year so what really began last year.

i am glad you feel it's ok to play games with these folks, and smash these kids dream. aint bleeding hearts beeson's line?

and if you mean by, we did that, only it began with last year!
that we did let them wrestle our state by making an exeption but no longer are we going to allow it.

then the proper thing would have been to tell them that at the start of the season not sending them signals.

thus giving them the opportunity to set things up with there own state tourny.

if they would have been upfront at the start of the season with these folks we would not be having this conversation.

"Last year" > current wrestling season

First of all we want to thank Kansas for their support, the last 3 seasons most of all Hugoton Wrestling Club for making us part of there family.

Being born & raised in Garden City Ks wrestling became a part of my life in the 7th grade and wrestled through High School. Even though I never made it to State or anything I learned that everyone involved had a great since of respect for each other and a sense of togetherness I needed as a young man. So with all that bieng said I decided to start a program in Guymon. There has never been wrestling in Guymon but there were kids that showed interest in the sport.

We just practiced and went to Beginner tournaments. After a few years of this there were a few kids that really loved the sport so I researched the USA wrestling Organization. We then joined and looked at where we could best fit in. Kansas was the place do to schedule of other Sports and Geographic location. Okalahoma Tournaments being so far away we could not afford to travel atleast 51/2 hrs. every weekend to a tournament. So bought are Cards in Kansas because we could go to a tournament every weekend and travel 21/2 to 31/2 hrs. We then requested permission to Wrestle in the championships in Kansas and we were granted that due to the criteria that there was nothing else out here for our kids.

So we become very involved with are new home club Hugoton working and helping at every practice and tournament we went to
including Subs & District and last yr. my wife worked a State table. By the way the coffee cups you gave the table workers last year were great my wife and I argue everyday on who gets to take it. With all this being said we believe we are Kansans and it would mean so much to these kids if you would let them finish this season. One other thing because of the distance to the Oklahoma tournaments if we are not allowed to wrestle in Kansas our kids will probably not wrestle anymore and we love promoting the sport of wrestling.

Sorry for the book but just wanted to give everyone a look at our situation.

Thank You
Troy Brunson

Wrestle in kansas. Practice in kansas. Wrestle state in oklahoma. From the outside looking in quitting dont seem like a a logical answer. It does seem like you have a special case. I would not like it, or think it fair for my boy (or any kansas wrestler) to have to wrestle a oklahoma kid in the state tourny. Hope all works out & your kids continue wrestling.

I understand that we have looked into all our options, we are still playing football when Oklahoma is wrestling. That doesn't give our boys much time under there belt when Oklahoma State comes around.

Thank You
Troy Brunson

Troy:

The Oklahoma State Championship series began with the Regional Tournament held last weekend, February 11 and 12, 2011. The OKWA State Championship was held this weekend, February 18 and 19, 2011.

Were you playing football in November and December?

I know kids in Hunneywell Ks
Own farm property in OK
Go to school in Blackwell OK cause their mom works there.
Wrestle in OK but can not wrestle in the OK state tournament.
I think they wrestled one year at the YMCA tournament (not surre what that is) but they have not since due to a ks address.
The rule is what the rule is, right or wrong, I don't think anything can be done this year anyway so maybe you need to be focusing on what you can for next year.

We have kansas cards though...!! With no ok wrestling club....

Richard,

Yes we played all of November, up and till the weekend before Thanksgiving. Then we started wrestling practice first of December with Hugoton.

With all the time and travel spent coming to kansas to wrestle
wouldnt it be cheaper,easier and more logical to drive to Oklahoma to work ? Nasa spent hundreds of thousands trying to develop a pin that would write in zero gravity.......
The russians solved the problem by using a pencil

what would make you think it would be cheaper and less time.?

If they had a club in that part of Ok they would wrestle there. Maybe it should be up to the districts these kids are in to decide. If the kid wrestles in a club in d4 they make the call, in d1 they make the call and so on. Keep hearing this sport is all about the kids I am starting to think maybe that was bs. Maybe just certain kids in certain places not all the kids.

I have went back into trackwrestling and found that OK kids had wrestled at the sub-district tournament that I hosted in Dodge City back in 2009. I would like to say that they have been an absolute pleasure to get to know and talk with at all the tournaments. They have worked very hard with the Hugoton club and the kids.

It was stated in an earlier post that we voted last year to let them in and that would be the final year. If that was the case then did we send them a letter explaining that they would not get in again. How were they notified of this decision. The board made their decision and notified the kids of the results, and at that time it was to late for them to get into the OK series tournaments. I talked with Carl Mize from OK and he told me that on 1-30-2011 (the day we voted) there was not sufficient time for them to get everything turned in and registered so they could compete in the series. We should have let them know sooner than we did. The copy of the request that I have seen from Mr. Brunson was dated 10-29-2010, had we made the decision then, that would have given them time to get things in order so they could compete in OK.

I dont think the way the bylaws are written, we can tell them that it is done, they will not be able to wrestle next year. I believe it states on a year to year basis that they have to petition the state. (Richard, please correct me if I am wrong). There is going to have to be a bylaw change in order to stop it all together. It was proposed, but did not carry.

In my opinion, we should let them finish the season.


Scott Edwards
620-338-2987

And the Kansas youth in my area of South Central Kansas were also completing their seasons at this time, with competing into the first week of December. Many clubs in Kansas do not begin practice until the first or second week of December for this very reason.

Thank u for that reply scott....and for trying....and my boys thank u.I guess richered does not have any comments....if any board members read any of this please let our boys have this last chance and finish the season.....next year I told them I guess we will do basketball....being the closest ok club is 4 hours from us...they were pretty torn up....please let them finish what they started along side such a wonder wrestling club.......

Thank u for that reply scott....and for trying....and my boys thank u.I guess richered does not have any comments....if any board members read any of this please let our boys have this last chance and finish the season.....next year I told them I guess we will do basketball....being the closest ok club is 4 hours from us...they were pretty torn up....please let them finish what they started along side such a wonder wrestling club.......

Why don't you just start an oklahoma wrestling club for your boys, You can still practice with Hugoton and go to all of the regular season tournaments they go to, you would just have to attend the oklahoma state series. That is a no brainer, what does it cost $50 to charter a club in Oklahoma, then maybe you will be able to get some other Oklahoma kids interested in wrestling also.I fully support the Kansas boards decision If the shoe were on the other foot Oklahoma would not let Kansas kids attend their state series.

The 1st meet my husband and I ever attended was 3 yrs ago....along with my boys...speaking for my family its not enough to start a club...we don't know enough about the sport we love....hougoton has taught us a lot...and yes we would have taken our boys to the ok series...if 1 ...we had enough time to get ok cards....and make them wrestle with kids they never even seen cause we have never even been to. A ok tournament...

sounds like you are making excuses instead of looking for answers, You can always learn how to run a club it is not rocket science, you could practice with hugoton and so what if you have never wrestled an Oklahoma kid all that means is that they have never wrestled you either.How much time does it really take to get an oklahoma card?? It can't be much more than sending in your money.

Sir,
We know that it is not Rocket Science we had a club once and has you can see it did not work out, there is no interest in Guymon or the area around us that is why we wrestle with Hugoton. We have explained in our other forums the reason we wrestle in Kansas.

Thank you for your Suggestion.
Dixie Brunson

Don't try putting a guilt trip on everyone. "It's for the kids" blah blah blah.. Some adult is the one that made the kids believe they could wrestle in KS, and that adult that dropped the ball needs to apologize to those kids, and tell them they can't wrestle in the KS State tourney series. Sometimes life throws a ball of crap at you, deal with it. Every single day, something doesn't go my way, and I can't just put a guilt trip on someone, tell them that my "kids depend on it" and expect them to drop everything, and change their decision to make me happy.

I will GUARANTEE you, that OK would not even think about letting us wrestle in their state tourney series.

This statement about traveling 4 or 5 hours to compete in OK is BS. They are going to travel more than that to compete at Topeka, correct? Wrestle KS all year long, then make the 4 or 5 hour trip a few weeks in a row to OKC area or wherever their qualifiers are at.

My guess is that you can find some great tourneys in the Amarillo TX area as well as the SW KS tourneys.

Mr.rocket science...u need a chartered club first....and like troy said....thank you for your. Suggestion ....it was very nice of u to take the time to commet back....

Does Oklahoma even have a sanctioning body for their qualifying tournaments? Would some type of card need to be purchased to participate in such? It's been years since we wrestled down there in invitationals, but none of those tournaments required any type of card.

I think they went to the OKWA or something like that, where you have to register your kids. It is cheaper than USAW, but I don't know what it covers........

Looks simple enough.

http://okseries.com/OKWAdata/OKWAbylaws2010c.htm

We need the name of their insurance agent or carrier!

Then charter a club if you want your kids to wrestle at state. How difficult is that to figure out. You come on here whining but it sounds like you are not willing to put in the little bit of effort needed to allow your kids to wrestle the state series in oklahoma. There is a very easy solution to your problem but it sounds like it is not the solution you want and you don't want to put in the effort to make it happen for your kids. Sorry life is not always fair but you have to play the hand your dealt and make the best of it. If you want your kids to wrestle a state series start a oklahoma club, still practice and attend regular season tournaments with Hugoton then wrestle at the Oklahoma state series sounds like a simple solution to me thats what I would do if I was in your shoes deal with it

Or move to Kansas...........

This is what I tell everyone that complains about Kansas or even regions within Kansas. There are advantages and disadvantages in where each of us lives.

Might be of help ? not sure of your exact local.

http://usaokwrestling.com/Clubs.aspx

http://panhandlewrestling.com

http://www.okwrestleforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=755

I want to thank all for all the support and info. All I am saying is NExt year we will do something differnt.As a parent you hate that the seson was cut short it is NOt my kids fault and they are the one that have to deal with it. My whole point is that I understand rules and I follow the rule and all that came out of this that we could of cheated the system from three years ago and no one would of know but i dnt believe on giving that life lesson to my kids Troy has done a awsome job and the Hugoton club taken us in . you cant be in a great program as KS wrestling is ,for three years and all of the sudden that be riped from you and we not go down with out a fight.Everyones goal at the first of the season is to make it to the STATE TOURNMENT.Is there any way of my kids going to State now I DNT KNOW.Beyond my control, but i felt it needed to be talked about and my only hope. Will my kids wrestle next year YES!!! Something wrestling tought my kids and myself DNT GIVEUP TIL THE WHISTLE BLOWS.

You did the right thing by not cheating, but let's be real, you wouldn't have gotten away with it for long, someone always talks.......

So who's gonna stop these kids from wrestling at sub's???

The state board voted us...out jan of this yr...

If I remember correctly a couple of these boys placed well at Salina. Seems strange to me that they were voted out after this tournament. Kinda makes you wonder why then and not before.

We understand that Kansas is better. We get that . You are welcome to move to our state and we will wrestle you all year long. Before and after Salina.The state lines divide the state championships. We go to Oklahoma and wrestle a lot of tournaments. But we come home to wrestle our state tournament. You can do the same.We never decided to vote them out do to being scared.The rules are the rules. There is a reason why it is called STATE CHAMPIONSHIP,we have all kinds of tournaments for them to wrestle us. And you are more than welcome to come to all the others.

Why is this STILL being discussed?? i mean seriously??!!

then please explain to all of us WHY they were allowed to wrestle in it the last 2 years.

Very good question. My opinion is that they shouldn't get to jump state to compete in the state championships. Like I said they are welcome otherwise.I wish they had closer tournaments around them. But the state line is the state line in my opinion.No matter what other state you are from.

I respect our Kansas Board members and always will, they have a tough job and I wouldn't want to do it but I can't just sit back and read this anymore! It's a free country and I'm gonna make a vote as a Kansas citizen, probably won't mean squat but oh well! Let them wrestle, they have kansas cards, and sounds like they have been supporting KS wrestling all year then cut short!

So I say anybody from Kansas that supports them and knows these folks or have wrestled them IN Kansas need to light up this forum with support for what ever its worth! Good luck to your 8 wrestlers!

Thank you for that!!! It means a lot...and my boys thank you....and you can be assured I will not put my boys through this next year....just let them finish what they started!!! Light it up.......plz...let them have a shot then next yr we will know....and wrestle in the ok state tournament...even though our hearts are with our hougoton ks family....

I dont mean to sound sinister, BUT it is Hugoton right ?
For as long as you have been a part of it, you still dont know how to spell the club name and the Kansas town your wrestling in ? I guess I dont know all the story but seems odd, I dont know. Why does it always have to be someone putting someone else through something. Sometimes it is just what it is ! No hidden agenda, No personal Vendetta, No Kansan having it out for an Okie. It just is what it is .. A rule that is being inforced.
Sometimes on the way to work I speed, because I dont get caught does not mean that it is not wrong. And when I do get caught, I get a ticket and the rules are enforced. I dont think the po po lets everybody else pass and singles me out. I think well, I should probably have alot more of these and then I slowww it down a bit.

Did you know back in January you could not compete in State ?

Oh I am sorry did not know I was in a spelling bee....I was just excited....aand it was late.

If you knew in January, you had plenty of time to get signed up for the OK series............Then on Feb 18th, you decide to start asking for the public to help you wrestle in KS............

I hate it when people have to pull out the grammar card. I mean come on now....'inforced'.....really?

Makes Kansas look weak to me. No wonder Oklahoma has most the all americans in Tulsa every year. Kansas has alot of dodging if you ask me. That's why the highschoolers already avoid the kids state tourny, Scared of a loss on their record. I've read all year kids state don't matter, only High School. Well it looks like to me like it does matter, and people are scared. My daughter is wrestling Girls state in Missouri this Sat. and Girls state in Ks the next day on Sunday. I was also a colorado and ks kids champ growing up on a boarder town in west ks. Looking at our High School All American numbers it looks like we have been climbing down the ladder from '90' when it started. I know we had a National Champ and several All Americans in 91, and 11 All Americans with 3 National Champs in 92, but we are lucky to pull out one or two All Americans any more with a lot more 4 x State Champions now days then ever before. You Tell me is it helping Ks wresting?

tell shayden good luck, i know jeffrey did not like wrestling her lol.

On Jan 30 is when they held there meeting. We found out the first week of FEb where we sent a letter back requested they look at the whole thing and let us just finish this season. After getting that letter back is when i wanted to let as many people know. They were your by laws that let us wrestle for two years and let us start ,this season, this year and your by laws change that is going to kick us out( which i understand) all i am saying is that your own by laws state that any changes made will be for the next comen year.Or is it once it is voted on JAN 30 is IT LAW ?

The precedent it would set would cause a flood of out of state kids IMO. Where do you draw the line?

If the board would have said ok, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it, but you have to draw the line, and the easiest line to draw is along the state borders..........

I agree that there are lots of HS kids that dodge the state tourney because of fear of a loss on their records. But don't take away from the many kids from KS that DON'T dodge anyone, and do the kids state series, FS GR state, and go to Schoolboy, Cadet, Junior duals, and Fargo, to wrestle the best in the country.

I don't think these 8 kids from OK would allow us to say "we ain't scared of noone, we let 8 kids form Guyman OK wrestle in our Kids state series".

The whole thing boils down to do we want our state tourney to be a Tulsa Nationals atmosphere? Participation would be way down if it was...........

I just have one question, and I don't know if it is relative. But at the beginning of the year we bought a card. What the heck was it a Kansas Wrestling card or a USA wrestling card?

Everyone keeps saying that these people bought a Kansas wrestling card so they should be allowed to wrestle, so I am confused.

They are USA wrestling card, which Kansas requires, for insurance purposes, for a kid to wrestle in our State series. It does say Kansas on the card next to the kids name, but I could order one for a kid that lives in new mexico, thru our club, and it will say KS on it I believe. We had a couple of friends from OK that came up to wrestle the classic last year and we got them cards thru our club. I believe they said KS on them as well.

Next year just wrestle in Kansas and wrestle Regionals and State in OK. All you have to do is pay 10 dollars a kid and have a roster with okwa. you could email Jerry Scott and or Carl Mize and see what you need to do. You can get their contact info from the ok seires web sight. I know several Kansas wrestlers done it this year. No USA card is needed in Oklahoma. Hope this helps you.

I hate it when people have to pull out the grammar card. I mean come on now....'inforced'.....really? [/quote]

I used it both ways for you : ) Wanded 2 sor witch one yew wood under stand.
No, its not a spelling bee. BUT, more of a question on matter of being vested into the club.
thats all. Just saying maybe the attention to Kansas wrestling is not what it should be. I guess what im trying to convey is sometimes when something only benefits you, we tend to get tunnel vision and really forget that it might be negative for others. thats all

Im as dumb as they come, I dont want any contest that involves intelligence. So please be gentle

And many of our Kansas kids who start the season early purchase cards outside the state of Kansas.

no it does not benifit me.....it for my 10 yr old and 8 yr old son....it has nothing to do with me....

My son wants to wrestle Kansas kids at State. If he has to beat a kid from another State then what is the piont of a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP? THIS IS STUPID!!! Respect the board's decision and try again next year.

JUST SAY NO!

Mark Butcher

When or if you move to Kansas..... I don't want you guys to have any hard feelings for some of us on here that gave our opinions. Nothing aginst you its just Kansas State is for Kansas Kids. If the board calls you tonight and gives you a thumbs up, then thats what happens and I will respect that decision. Good luck.

Mark Butcher

The point is they do and have wrestled for Kansas for the past 3 years and have no team where they are in Oklahoma, nor do they wrestle in Ok state or tournys. You are probably from an area of the state where you don't have to worry about numbers and a program. I would be willing to bet your kid has no preference or even knows who he wrestles at state in kids, its probably you, yourself that don't want your kid to wrestle them.

Lyle Geyer

Plain and simple we out here in western ks do not have the numbers to even have a decent practice, a few kids miss practice and half the team is missing. I feel the board is dead wrong. Robbing the children of dreams. Its hard enough with no population and your only making small teams smaller.

We started wrestling in early october. We went to Texas, and spent EVERY weekend in Oklahoma untill Kansas started. We have missed 0 tournaments and drive a 65 mile round trip, 4 nights a week to practice. I am one of the few dads that let my son decide what we do and how far we go. Any one who knows him and I can back that up. He can tell you who the best kids in Kansas and Oklahoma are and is good friend with all of them (his weight and age). He and all the other kids I have talked to say NO to out os state kids. After all its for the kids right?
Assumptions are the mother of all......

Mark Butcher

obviously not all kids.

All the kids I have talked to

So far anyway

Why don't you talk to the Hugoton kids.

Population, Sedgwick County, KS

482,863 - Jul 2008

Population Stevens County ks

5056

95 X's more population and they are crying about a few kids with no team.

Looks like Oklahoma has no problem taking on Kansas Kids in their state tourny.

so have these kids wrestled in any Oklahoma tourneys at all or just strictly Kansas? Do they wrestle in Colorado or any other states? did the kids that came from out of state at Maize have to purchase cards? What about the kids that go to salina from out of state? did they have to purchase cards? what about the kids going to park city from out of state? are they going to have to purchase cards as well? just a few questions to be considered.These kids are affiliated with the club in KS. there are a couple of loop holes here either way. Whether these kids get to wrestle at state this year or not, you have a situation that could be part of next years state body meeting. But a proposal has to be sent to Ned Price(it think thats where you send it) by July 31st via certified mail). Then at the state board they will vote for it. I do not think we as Kansans are going to allow every kid that buys a card from out of state to wrestle in a tourney like maize or salina to compete at the state series. But this is a different situation i think with these 8 kids. this is just my view of the situation. would like to say let em wrestle on 1 hand but not on the other. i say that because the state body is saying if we let you, we have to let them too and that is not going to happen. but if we as a state said as a state we will allow certain kids who wrestle in with a Ks club, there is the proposal. then we keep these 8 kids being kids in Ks wrestling and still have the power to say no to kids who only purchase cards for our main tourneys like maize and salina

Read the constitution and by-laws! They are very clear on this issue. Both the state body and the board have spoken.

so where do I find the rules and regulations on the site? or constitution and bylaws page. i read the minutes from state last year and this was not a topic. so.........or am I wrong? please correct me sporto!!!!

OKWA Bylaws

ARTICLE 3

3. MEMBERS-CLUBS, WRESTLERS, SUPPORT AND HONORARY

3.1 CLUB MEMBERSHIP-Membership will be open to any club or school with an active wrestling program in the State of Oklahoma and which agrees to abide by the provisions of the OKWA Bylaws and such other provisions as may be prescribed by the OKWA through the Executive Board.


3.10 INDIVIDUAL MEMBERSHIP- Any wrestler is eligible to be a member in the elementary division of the OKWA when he or she has not reached their 13th birthday by September 1 (August 31 at midnight is the deadline). To be eligible for Division V, they must not have turned age 16 before September 1 (August 31 at midnight is the deadline). The wrestler’s name must appear on the proper Club Forms and be of generally good health and live within the borders of the State of Oklahoma. The appearance of the wrestler’s name on these forms shall be construed as parental/guardian consent. In addition, they must attend school in Oklahoma to be eligible to compete in Regionals and State. Any exceptions must be granted by the board.

Follow this arrow
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Kids Bylaws

Article II - Qualifying Folkstyle Tournaments (Page 17)

2. For the purpose of eligibility of entering a Sub-District or District tournament, a competitive member must be a resident of Kansas and/or be enrolled in a Kansas educational school system. Special cases to this rule are subject to notification and permission from the Executive Council. The State Tournament Director will be notified of any person permitted to wrestle under this provision.

"The wrestler’s name must appear on the proper Club Forms and be of generally good health and live within the borders of the State of Oklahoma. The appearance of the wrestler’s name on these forms shall be construed as parental/guardian consent. In addition, they must attend school in Oklahoma to be eligible to compete in Regionals and State. Any exceptions must be granted by the board."

Actually the Oklahoma rules are more restrictive than those of Kansas! They require the wrestlers to be BOTH a resident of the state and enrolled in an Oklahoma school whereas we only require one or the other!

Than

Thank You Richard

I just wanted to says thanks for all the support from the state of Kansas. I am typing this from my hotel room in Scott City Kansas. The point being I spend 70% of my time working in Kansas. I know Jeff smith has spend time in Kansas Helping people in need he works for Eagle Med and has to file a Kansas tax return. Jesus works for Sea Board and that involves Kansas. We are very involved in Kansas and would like to finish in Kansas PLEASE consider.

Thanks again for all that you have done!!

Ask yourselve are you making a POSITIVE difference in the life of a child By Randy Hindaliter

Can you file an injunction? That would allow you to compete until a verdict is rendered I would think.

I don't see the problem. They were told in January. Plenty of time to enter the Oklahoma Tournament. A decision has been made, wether you like the decision or not, it has to be lived with.

I don't want this to go away it is to important to those eight boys. Beeson Jan 30 is not enough time to get into the ok qualifiers. Still seems funny to me that this decision was made after Salina and not at the first of the month when there would have been time. Still makes a person wonder why then??????? By the way Good Job at Salina Hunter you did great !!!!!!!!

Here the reason. The state board meets after the Salina tournament. That is when this is voted on, at that meeting. I doubt very seriously that the board was so worried about a kid doing well at the Salina tournament, as to use that as their only reason, to not let out of state kids wrestle in the Kansas State tournament. In the past these kids have narrowly gotten to wrestle, this year happens to be the year the board said no more. If you live in Oklahoma, wrestle the Oklahoma series. If you want to wrestle the Kansas series, move to Kansas. No hidden agenda, I assure you.

I would not think just cause one kid did well at Salina is the reason they voted the way they did. If that would have been the case then when Hunter took 5th at state last year they would have said no more Oklahoma kids. Look my son wrestles Hunter at 10 and under 130 and I dont like what the board has voted, Hunter and his dad are good friends of mine I like them a lot, but you guys are fighting a losing battle. My nephew a few years ago from Ulysses was put in at the wrong age group by his coach, his coach... and they told him for that he could not wrestle.So his season was done early to. It sucks, as a matter of fact he just walked away from it and never came back to wrestle again. I hope your 8 dont do what he done but i see him now and he is as happy or happier then ever before...

Are you kidding me? They are kids. They paid for their KS wrestling cards. Let them wrestle. When did we start being so unfair? Since when do we tell kids they can't? How unfair. I will be VERY ashamed if Kansas Wrestling denies these kids.

Part of the problem that our world has today: We don't tell our kids NO nearly enough..........Spoonfeed them forever.......

Seriously??!! STILL? I agree with doug747. Wrestle where you belong. Most people say ,"Oh well just let them, whats it hurting?" ...UNTIL it affects them. I say its affecting EVERYONE. No one is learning life lessons any more. I cant just walk over to the neighboring business and start working there, just because I WANT TO. "why cant I?? Whats it hurting?!" or better yet...."I'm going to work where I already do, and go get insurance over there. I like working here, but they have better benefits and I wont have to drive far everyday. And they are going to let me. if not they are big meanies!!" GET THESE KIDS READY FOR REAL LIFE. YOU CANT JUST DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT.

so if any kid pays for a KS card, we should allow them to wrestle in the KS state tournament? please explain to me your train of thought here. we would have kids from MO, OK, CO, all around, entering our state tournament and many of them taking our kids medals, is that "fair"??

i have an idea. see if all you "fair" people can follow. OK parents near Hugoton KS, get busy, start a club in the panhandle. Beg, borrow, and steal a coach from the Hugoton area. build this program from area towns, get other kids involved in a great sport. PUT THE OK PANHANDLE ON THE MAP. leave something positive for your kids, and their kids, and so on. quit looking for the easy way out, teach your kids that life IS NOT FAIR, but that doesn't mean you turn tail and run, or point fingers. LIFE IS WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT. use this as a learning experience.

i don't think anyone on this forum wishes that this would play out in this way. but rules are rules. it would not be FAIR for us to inclued these 8 kids, then exclude ANY other kid who simply "paid for a KS card". that is what would not be fair. sorry that it had to happen this way, i really am. but you need to move on, if you don't start building your program now, you will not have time to get it done. BTW sports have seasons, football, wrestling, baseball, organizers DO NOT. as a parent, club officer, you need to leave the practices and games to the kids and coaches. you will be busy keeping the programs in check. goog luck to these 8 fine young men. Once you have wrestled, everything else in life is easy.

PERFECTLY PUT!!!