Hugoton - Oklahoma Wrestlers!

This is an update regarding the Oklahoma residents and participation in the USAW Kansas Kids State Championship Tournament Series.

On Friday, February 25, 2011 several members of the Executive Council were served with a demand letter from an attorney in Hugoton, Kansas, retained by the parents of several Oklahoma residents, requesting the Executive Council reconsider our position and to allow the participation of these athletes in our Championship Series.

On March 3, 2011 the attorney obtained a restraining order against USAW Kansas Kids. The restraining order prevented the exclusion of several of the Oklahoma participants.

USAW Kansas Kids, Inc. has retained counsel in Stephens County, Kansas to represent the Executive Council and defend our interest.

I have forwarded a PDF file of the Demand Letter and Restraining Order to be posted to the website.

I will keep all informed as warranted as developments occur.

Mr. Matt Treaster
Executive State Director
USA Wrestling - Kansas, Inc.
539 S. Quail Court
Newton, KS 67114

Re: Guymon wrestlers

Dear Mr. Treaster:

I have been requested by the parents of some of the wrestlers who belong to the Hugoton Wrestling Club to contact you regarding a decision made by your Board not to allow the wrestlers who live in Oklahoma to compete in the Kansas State Kids Championship Series. I have reviewed the letter you addressed to Troy Brunson and Jesse Medina dated February 12, 2011, and have agreed to assist the parents in resolving this matter.

In the past two years, I have had the opportunity to travel around Europe for several weeks at a time. I came back to America both times more grateful than ever that I live in a country where I am free to travel from state to state to shop, visit, play, eat, etc., without carrying papers with me and with no “border” issues. As a citizen of Kansas, I certainly understand the need for a state and its representatives to protect and defend our rights as taxpayers and as citizens of Kansas. However, having lived in the corner of this state for twelve years, I also understand and appreciate the need to cooperate with other states in matters that affect us all.

Here in Hugoton, we are 20 miles from the Oklahoma border, 60 miles from the Texas border, and 30 miles from the Colorado border. As such, we have felt extremely blessed by the cooperation of the area towns, be they in Oklahoma, Texas or Colorado, to allow us to compete with them in various sports. One week, my husband and I traveled over 300 miles to see our son play in two LEAGUE football games, both of these games being in Kansas of course. So we are grateful when our non-league games can be played in Hooker, Oklahoma, only 30 miles away, or in Guymon, Oklahoma, only 40 miles away. We are also grateful for schools that send their teams from these towns to play in our tournaments, because schools our size from eastern Kansas do not want to make that drive out to Southwest Kansas. My point is simply that this cooperation among the residents, schools and towns of the various states is a great benefit to all of the families who live here and an extremely positive situation for Kansans in our area.

The kids in Guymon who wrestle in Kansas do so because they love to wrestle, and because they have few other options due to their residence in the panhandle of Oklahoma. The closest Oklahoma town with a wrestling club is two hours away, whereas Hugoton is only 40 minutes away. These families have contributed greatly to the Hugoton program in terms of volunteer hours at tournaments and in coaching. They have spent their money in Hugoton and other various Kansas locales, while traveling to practice and tournaments, thus bringing out-of-state dollars to our economy.

Interestingly enough, the parents I spoke to did not point out any of the above as reasons for asking me to assist them with this matter. They spoke only of the disappointment of their sons.

I have reviewed the documentation brought to me by the parents, and feel that the decision the Board made was in violation of the “due process” provisions of their bylaws. The Board could have voted in their annual meeting in October not to allow the Oklahoma boys to wrestle, but instead it accepted the Oklahoma boys’ dues, and issued cards to the boys and to one of their fathers as a coach which were clearly dated “September 1, 2010 -August 31, 2011".

The subsequent revocation of those memberships, towards the end of the season at a “special meeting” in January, could be construed as capricious and arbitrary. At the very least, it appears to have been done without proper notice or in accordance with the clear terms of Article V of the bylaws. It is my understanding that the notice for that special meeting did not include the purpose for which that meeting was called, and that whatever notice was sent was not delivered at least 20 days before the date of the meeting. In any event, the notice was not sent to the members whose statuses were being decided which I patently unfair, and I believe a judge would agree with me.

As such, I have been asked to file a petition for a restraining order, temporary injunction and permanent injunction, enjoining the Board from enforcing their revocation of the memberships as described above, and from interfering with these members’ right to wrestle in the Kansas State Kids Championship Series. As time is of the essence, unless we can resolve this matter amicably by Monday, February 28, 2011, at 3:00 p.m., I will file the Petition and seek to have the restraining order signed at that time. Any injunction will be decided after a hearing, or course.

My son wrestled in the Hugoton Wrestling Club a few years ago, so I have an idea of what these parents are feeling. I understand their finding it difficult to explain to 8- and 10-year-olds that because they live in the wrong place and because of a decision of some Board somewhere that they cannot finish this season of wrestling. Everyone has to learn the lesson at some point that life is not always fair. But these parents would first like to see if the Board’s decision can be reversed for the remainder of this season.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. Please contact me if you have questions.

Very truly yours,


Shelley K. Kurt

IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF STEVENS COUNTY, KANSAS

JESUS MENDOZA, individually and as father and next friend of MANUEL MENDOZA and MICHAEL MENDOZA, minor children,
and TROY BRUNSON, individually and as father and next friend of HUNTER BRUNSON, a minor child,
and DANIEL MENDOZA, as father and next friend of DANIEL MENDOZA, a minor child

v

KANSAS KIDS WRESTLING, ak/a
USA WRESTLING ASSOCIATION- KANSAS, INC.,
an affiliate of USA WRESTLING

RESTRAINING ORDER
(Chapter 60)

PLAINTIFFS
CaseNo.llCV.5
DEFENDANTS

NOW on this 3rd of March, 2011, the above captioned matter comes on for hearing. Plaintiffs appears by and through their attorney, Shelley K. Kurt, of the law firm ofKramer, Nordling & Nordling, LLC, Hugoton, Kansas.

The matter proceeds to hearing where the Court grants Plaintiffs' request for a Restraining Order to stay and temporarily enjoin Defendant Corporation and its Board from enforcing the revocation of the Plaintiffs' membership privileges, and from interfering with the participation of Jesus Mendoza, Manuel Mendoza, Michael Mendoza, Troy Brunson, Hunter Brunson, or Daniel Mendoza during the remainder of the 2010-2011 season's tournaments and events. No bond or other such undertaking is necessary.

IT IS SO ORDERED.
District Court Judge
Kim R. Schroeder

PREPARED BY:
KRAMER, NORDLING & NORDLING, LLC
209 East Sixth Street
Hugoton, KS 67951
Telephone: 620-544-4333
By:
Shelley K. Kurt, #14504
Attomeys for Plaintiff

Richard, when is the hearing? Does USAWKS have legal representation in the matter and if so who?

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU DONT LET THESE THINGS HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE! Give people an INCH they TAKE a MILE!!! This is RIDICULOUS!!

Thanks, missed that! To all those that voted against the constitutional admendment at the state body meeting last fall, this is what happens when you try to be a nice guy/gal!

Demand Letter

Restraining Order

Correct me if I am wrong but the board did not revoke thier membership cards, the board just said they could not wrestle in the Kansas State Tournament series. The membership cards are still good and they have all the same benefits that they had before the board made it's decision.

I agree ridiculous! Take their money, give them cards, and then kick them out!! Kansas is two timing them. Good luck Hugoton wrestlers and parents on this most ridiculous matter. They could of just not accepted their usa-kansas dues, and that would of been it, but that's not what the board did.

That is correct.

Wow. Just my opinion here....but guess what this is likely to do for these kids next year....yep, no Kansas cards being issued to them at all. Which would probably be the cleanest way to end this, but too bad it has to end this way. Again, in my opinion, poor judgement calls by the executive board caused this.

I believe it's been said before but I believe getting a USAW competitor card does not grant you rights to compete in the state series. Yes, it's a requirement to have a card to compete in the state series (or any USAW sanctioned event), but that card could have been purchased in other states, Missouri for example.

The requirement for the USAWKS series as I read it is:

a) Be a KS resident or,
b) Be a student in KS or
c) Special exception by the executive council

One of the above PLUS a having a valid USAW competitor card (not necessarily bought in KS) is what is needed.

How is KS two-timing? What "USA-KS dues" did these people pay? Did they start the club and paid the sanctioning dues? If so, then I could see the two-timing.

I understand the circumstances but it seems they are just like any other OK kid that comes to KS to compete in tournaments but are not allowed into the state series.

If it were me, I admit I'd want my kids to wrestle but to me it seems the rules are clear. If there was assumption that they would be allowed to wrestle, I'd say that's big assumption and one that creates this situation. No doubt it's an unfortunate situation and I wish everyone involved the best, regardless of the outcome.

Exactly! Failure to act on this by the membership has now had a finacial impact in the form of legal fees.

A little bit of me is now kinda cheering them on! Wrestlers don't quit.

Looks like the restraining order is basically going to allow them to wrestle in this year's state series. If they wrestle next weekend is there really any point to pursue it further. Next year get the admendment passed and put an end to this type of thing in the future.

Perhaps i don't understand how the cards work. But, to my understanding, they got Kansas USA cards so they could wrestle in Kansas because no Oklahoma tourneys. close--why did they just not buy Oklahoma cards--wreslte all Ks. tourneys they want--then wrestle Oklahoma state? Travel?? Not sure where Ok. State tourny held but they would have to come to Topeka. Money? they apparetnly have money for lawyers. We wrestled tourneys in 4 different states this year with our Ks.card--so can we go compete at Mo. or Ind. state etc? Kansas kids only in the Kansas State Tourney.

Folks, this isn't that hard to understand. The state in which the cards are issued has NO bearing on them being able to wrestle in this state or any other. Nor does it have any bearing on them being able to wrestle in a qualifier in this or any other state. Rather, all the cards do is allow them to wrestle in USAW sanctioned tournaments throughout the season throughout the nation. The thing that SHOULD HAVE prevented them from wrestling in our qualifying series was our state constitiution. Like someone said, this will be corrected next fall at the state body meeting.

I don't understand where people associate the idea that having a KS wrestling card allows you access to the state tournament. The state tournament has its own set of rules.
Now in the past the state has given special consideration to these kids and that is where they messed up. The state will have to come up with a very clear (black and white) rule that will allow no exceptions.
Here's a few things bothering me...
People say the state WAITED until January to make a ruling on these kids. But when did these people file the request to be in the state tournament? Was it BEFORE they purchased their cards??? They were fully aware that there was a process that they had gone through in the years past that allowed them special consideration to be in the state series. When you. Are aware that special consideration is made you have also be aware that there is a possibility that a ruling could go either way.
Just because someone makes an exception to a rule does not mean the rule has changed.
Judges in our court system do it everyday. The hand out different fines to different people for the same crime. They make their ruling based upon the situation.
They were aware there was a process.
They were aware there was a risk.
They knowing purchased their cards with the understanding of the risk.
The main question is when did they file their request for special consideration to the state series?

I am wondering if the couple $'s of extra fees KS stacks on to purchasing a card won't come back to hurt us in front of a judge.

The Executive Council has had an annual meeting in January for many years. The letter from the Hugoton Club on behalf of the Oklahoma wrestlers was dated December 20, 2010.

There are no extra fees. I agree, shame on Kansas for being nice guys and allowing them to wrestle in the first place. They now feel entitled to be in the tournament instead of allowed. I hope they will not be allowed to participate, but if so, lesson learned. Adapt rules next year to never allow this to happen again.

I would recommend NOT fighting. Let them wrestle. To defend the case KS will spend how much in legal fees? The answer is simple too much. And this is money that would/should go to supporting Kansas wrestlers.

If KS is to pay an attorney, pay them to make sure our bylaws are written to get rid of the gray. Although I feel for these wrestlers and do understand what they want, I am not willing to say USAW-KS presents the....

Kansas State and ALL Bordering Neighbor States Championship Series.....

It is KANSAS State for a reason and if you allow one exception, how do you not make two and three and four? It puts the Council in impossible situations to not just make it clear in the beginning who can and can not participate which is what the Council was probably trying to clear up with a membership vote last year.

Just my 2 cents....

Jena Rieschick

Oklahoma is not a USA wrestling state. You don't need a
USA card to wrestle in the state series in OK. In January they could/should have found out about the state series in OK and wrestled there. The USA card does not grant you any rights to a state qualifying tournament. My son bought his USA card in MO for the last several years. We were not allowed to, nor should we have been allowed to wrestle in MO state series even though that is where our club was and where we practiced 4x a week.

This should have been communicated by the club directors of Hugoton, they knew the rules or have been entrusted that they should.

Maybe the wrestlers in their bracket should counter sue to avoid wrestling these okies. In fact next time your kid loses due to a bad call by a referee who can't see over his belly, gets DQ'd for unsportsmanlike conduct by a referee who has an agenda, gets declared overweight due to a defective scale, etc, we now know there is potential justice available. We need to fight this board to protect our rights. Good job guys.

Wrestler also show respect for the rules.

It is really sad it has come to this. I am not sure this is setting hte best example for the kids involved, that goes for both sides of this issue.

Isn't the entry deadline for subs past, or will they sue to let late entries in also.

Richard

the original letter of request to participate was dated 10/29/2010.

Okay so I guess I screwed up this year, I mean I could have sued Missouri to let us wrestle in there state tourney cause I bought my son a Missouri card this year, and then I had to buy the insurance from Oklahoma to wrestle there so I should be allowed in there state series as well. He wrestled in Texas this year so I'm assuming we have a case there as well. Oh man I almost forgot about Nebraska and Iowa so what is that 6 states that we should be allowed to wrestle the state series in. That's it I'm getting off this forum and calling my attorney.

I understand that the Board has voted and I am one of the ones that voted to let them participate. I will however enforce the boards decision to not let them wrestle. They are entered into the Sub-District tournament on trackwrestling and I was told to leave them until the outcome of the injunction is decided.

Scott: This is the letter presented to the Executive Council for the January meeting. I have never seen a letter dated October 29, 2010.


USAWKS

12/20/10

To USAWKS Board Members & Clubs

Good afternoon! I am writing today to request permission for the Guymon Ok wrestlers to be a participant in the Sub-District, Districts and State tournaments in Kansas. We are asking because of our geographical location. The state of Oklahoma has a program but we do not wrestle in any of their tournaments because of the distance. All Oklahoma tournaments are located around the metro of Oklahoma City and Tulsa. This is at least 5 hours travel time from our homes in the Panhandle. The closest Oklahoma club is Woodward Ok and that is 100 + miles. If you would be so kind to grant us permission, our only participation will be in the excellent program in Kansas.

There are 8 boys that will be wrestling: Hunter Brunson 10 & under 130, Manny Mendoza 10 & under 80, Mike Mendoza 8 & under 90, Adam Mendoza 6 & under 48, Danny Mendoza 8 & under 58, Rance Long 6 & under 50, Kale Smith 14 & under 11 0, and Lane Smith 10 & under 64.

The Hugoton Wrestling Club has been our Wrestling home for the last two years, and we appreciate what Kansas does for our kids and we would like to continue that. We have discussed this with Jesse Medina, the Hugoton club and District IV and they are very supportive. Therefore we ask that our kids could continue in this program.

Sincerely,

Troy Brunson
Bronze Certified

RT 2 Box 71 AH

Guymon Ok 73942

580-461-0887

This is a copy of the letter which I sent in 2008.

Mr. Jesse Medina, President
Hugoton Wrestling Club
P. O. Box 445
Hugoton, KS 67951


January 28, 2008


Dear Mr. Medina:

Mr. Steve Woody presented a request by the Hugoton Wrestling Club for approval of an out of state wrestler to participate in the USAW Kansas Kids State Wrestling Championship qualifying series.

The request to participate was denied!

Please extend our best wishes for continued success to your out of state guest.


Respectfully,

Richard D. Salyer
USAW Kansas Kids, Inc.
Parliamentarian

Scott:

Actually, I believe this issue will have beneficial results for USAW Kansas Kids, Inc.

I believe there will be no problem at this years annual meeting passing a bylaw amendment to limit participation in the State Series Championship Series to members who reside and attend an accredited school in Kansas.

I also believe a bylaw amendment removing the additional vote granted to District 4 will pass. There is no valid reason for District 4 to carry one additional vote on the Executive Council than District 1, 2 or 3.

I don't think the fact that theses wrestlers bought a card in Kansas is the main issue here. It is the fact that these kids have had the opportunity to wrestle in this series in the past, now this year they are not allowed to. This seems kind of fishy to me. Who on the board or who has ties to the board has a wrestler that got beat by one of these wrestlers and was upset and stirred the pot. I say let them finish this season as they have the past few years, then next year inform them at the beginning of the year that yes or no they can participate in the series. JMO

It depends. What "you" think the "rules" are and what a judge thinks you said the the rules were. It's up to the courts now. Both sides feel they are acting in their best interest.

Wrestlers should respect the rules. But when it comes to combat, never quit.

"Readily will I fight on to the Ranger objective and complete the misson. Though I be the lone survivor."

richard please explain what you mean about district 4 having a extra vote on the board!! wuld like to better understand what you are meaning by that post!!!
thanks for explaining in advance!!!
dave robson

L.Geyer...This is not the first time that you have made that ridiculous accusation. Many members of the board have responded in these threads. Viewpoints both for and opposed to allowing participation have been presented. We are not hiding or running. I sat in the meeting and not one member had an issue with having our wrestlers go head to head with the Guymon wrestlers. There is a time and place for everything and the majority felt that the Kansas State Tournament was neither the time nor the place. In 2009 and 2010 those serving on the board felt differently. As Richard's letter to the Hugoton club demonstrates, Guymon request was denied in 2008. Guymon new full well what the process was. They had received both positive and negative opinions in the past. In 2008, 2009, 2010, and this year decisions were always rendered during our winter meeting the Sunday following the Salina tournament. Your comments do not advance your cause!

Respectfullly Submitted
Mark Stanley
District 1 North Assistant Director

PS...my vote is still NO!

Rules? What about common sense? If you live in OK wrestle in that state tourny, if you live in KS wrestle in that state tourny. What is there to understand? If you let people from other states wrestle in your state tourny it is no longer a state tourny. Sorry if you have to drive a long way to get there. My son has wrestled in OK, TX, MO & UT but I have never once thought that he could or should wrestle in those state tournys. USAW card has nothing to do with it!

There seems to be no COMMON SENSE any more.There sould be NO was any kid from any dif state should get to go to state if they do NOT live in that state.

For people to get leagal councel for this just shows how much common sense there is now days.Sad people are this way.

One thing for sure I bet it will not happen agin.After we the people of KANSAS has to pay for court.

I think one big thing that should be looked at here is WHY and WHO side to leave them in subs? Seems to me it had been desided they could not go to state,so why leave them in subs.

I do not leave my name due to my club ,nor my son may think the same toughts I do.If you would like to know whom I am just tell me where to come to.We can set and eat lunch at state :}

Is this the same shelley Kurt-bock or Kurt Shelley from the Hugoton law firm ? think im cornfused

http://media.lawrence.com/news/documents/2010/10/29/Formal_Complaint.pdf

USAW Kansas Kids
Executive Council Officers

Executive Director (Elected by State Body)
Matt Treaster - Newton - (District 3)

Assistant Executive Director (Elected by State Body)
Tom Richard - Manhattan - (District 3)

Secretary (Appointed by Executive Director) NON VOTING POSITION
Patti Ochs - Hoxie (District 4)

Officials Representative
Van Kuhn - Kinsley - (District 4)

Parliamentarian (Elected by State Body) NON VOTING POSITION
Richard D. Salyer - Towanda - (District 2)

State Freestyle Director (Elected by State Body)
Will Cokeley - Eudora - (District 1)

Treasurer (Elected by State Body)
Leann Buckley - Clay Center - (District 3)

Voting Members of the Executive Council Elected by the Club Director's at the annual District Meeting
District 1 (Four Voting Members)
Tuff Hermreck - Director
Mark Stanley - Assistant Director
Chriss Ball - Assistant Director
Tom Peterman - Freestyle Director

District 2 (Four Voting Members)
Richard D. Salyer - Director
Jess Keith - Assistant Director
Melissa Shoaf - Assistant Director
Charles Knox - Freestyle Director

District 3 (Four Voting Members)
Lance Engel - Director
James Cook - Assistant Director
Michael Brownell - Assistant Director
Danny Grater - Freestyle Director

District 4 (Five Voting Members)
Steve Woody - Director
Scott Edwards - Assistant Director
Kyle Wright - Assistant Director
Kent Hahn - Freestyle Director
Joe Arrelano - Freestyle Director

Mr. Stanley,
In fact this is the first time i have made this so called accusation i have commented on this topic in the past but have never talked about who or if they have beat any wrestlers in the past. I have strongly stated my opinion about how I feel they should be able to finish the season. So with all do respect before you start accusing people of comments they have not made please get your facts straight.

Lance Geyer
785-650-1607

so are they going to be able to wrestle or not?

Appears to be two different lawyers. The lawyer on the restraining order lists a bar number of 14504. The lawyer with the disciplinary complaint is listed as 10073.

A bar number is essentially like your social security number. It identifies the lawyer in all court procedings and pleadings.

It has yet to be determined! The restraining order allowed the Oklahoma wrestlers to be entered prior to the deadline for entries.

Was not trying to get on your bad side, was just trying to let you know when the first date of letter was.

District IV has five voting members because of our geographical size. Our district is almost 200 miles by 200 miles. That is almost twice the size of any other district in the state, that is why we were allowed an extra freestyle director which is a voting member.

ok thanks scott!!
see you next week!!

Does USAW at the national level have any say in this or because it has to do with a USAW-Kansas tournament do they stay out of it?

No!

what did the parents do to start a club in OK??? this is absolutely the most ridiculous reason to tie up the state courts. i can not stand people who can't accept the answer NO. when they get told NO, they disrupt everything to fight for their "cause".

lyle they were not kicked out of wrestling, they were excluded from the OK wrestling series, then the KS state series, because they tried to take the EASY way out. now they are going to waste more precious time and $$$ fighting this in court. completely unreasonable to me why if they LOVE wrestling so much, why they don't fight in the correct way. lyle when was the last time you told your wrestlers that it's alright to blame the referee for a loss????? why is it OK for everyone in our society to sue, when they don't get their way???? that's NOT value taught in any wrestling room that i've been in.

paratroop: i would respect their fight if i had seen where these people spent their legal $$$ to start a club in Guymon. Lyle wrestlers don't leave it in the refs hand, and Americans never quit. respectful folks don't cry foul, and threaten to sue everytime the get told NO, either. this is most definatley a huge problem in society today, with all the better things our court system could be deciding. this is a complete waste of time and resources.

forgive me parents/ supporters of this legal battle, while i still am cheering for these people to get wrestling (the right way), i cannot respect this action.

Mr. Geyer,

I will admit you caught me. I confused you with Lyle Geyer from the previous "Just let them finish" thread.



...any relation? I think the majority of body will see through this. The board and USAWKS will respect the courts injunction while it is being fought in court. This is more than can be said for the Guymon families respect for the Executive Board authority. The members of the Executive Council are Directors of wrestling clubs. They are team Mom's. They are treasurers and secretaries. They are your coaches. We all serve in a voluntary capacity and are elected by our peers in this organization to look out for the best interests of USAWKS. Like it or not we made a decision. This is democracy in action. Sometimes it is a little ugly. However, the process was more than fair to the Guymon wrestlers. They were not excluded from practicing with Hugoton or attending Open tournaments in KS. They just did not get the result they wanted in regaurds to the State Tourney. Just because it was within their ability to file this injunction it does not make it right. No more than it is right for the Wisconsin legislature to flee to Illinois to avoid democracy in action. If you don't like the decision of those that serve you step up and run. If you are elected, you will get the opportunity to put your stamp on the future of our organization.

Mark Stanley

here's a respectful KS wrestling story for ya!

for years the Frontenac kids, and Girard kids have wrestled with the Pittsburg Wrestling Club. In high school they were allowed to COOP (practice and compete together until state tournament series at which time each competitor competes withing his schools classification)with Pittsburg High School USD 250.

about six years ago Pittsburg decided not to COOP in wrestling for anyone who didn't pay property taxes within the USD 250 boudaries. for reason that seem silly to some, very valid to others.

this allowed Nick Whetzell who graduated from COLGAN HIGH SCHOOL, to continue to wrestle in high school.

it excluded Kyle Johnson from Girard. this is the same Kyle Johnson who finished as a 4x state medalist, and a 3x runner-up, for Columbus High School.
you see Kyle could have quit wrestling, and stayed with his life long friends in Girard. Kyle was a wrestler, he has NO quit in him. they didn't tie up the courts! they fought in a better way. they searched for a school who would COOP. Columbus welcomed Kyle, and his family in Junior High. He ultimately transferred to Columbus, and has signed a letter of intent to wrestle for Fort Hays. you see i was Kyle's coach here in Pittsburg, and am very proud of the fact that he decided to stay in the circle and battle rather than run to the table, complain, and try to blame someone else for his situation.

a few years back the Pittsburg Kids club finished in the top 10 as a team. they had 5 state champs, and 11 state qualifiers. 3 of those state champs, and 6 of the state qualifiers were enrolled in Frank Layden elementary school in Frontenac USD 249. Zac Hensley, Tyler Hensley, and Brandon Mlekus were state champs, were would never be allowed to compete in wrestling in high school because their school didn't offer the sport, and a previously mentioned Pittsburg would not COOP. Dylan Flora and Andrew Forrest, state qualifiers, would have to hang up the wrestling shoes in junior high, for the same reason. These boys have very loving parents, Denny and Rhonda Hensley, Randy Flora, Monica Maus among other who decided that they needed to fight for their sons. these great folks wanted to fight for their sons, so they could wrestle. they could have taken PHS to court, they could have taught their kids to sit back and point blame. they chose to fight. first they got their own club. then they showed the school board the interest. then they got a junior high team. this year they competed for the first time ever as a high school. i am very proud of these young men, and their parents for doing the right thing. they stayed on the mat, and away from the table, to do battle, and in the next few years they WILL be earning some 321A hardware as individuals, and probably a team.

sorry so long, but these stories portray how wrestlers fight!

While the argument for why they feel entitled to wrestle in the Kansas Kid's State tournament seems to be because they are members of the Hugoton team, the attorney did comment on the hardship of having to travel far to compete in Oklahoma because of Guymon's remote location. Having said, that looking at the total distance of competing in Oklahoma Kid's State Series versus Kansas Kid's State, it looks like it would be more of a hardship to compete in Kansas Kid's State assuming that the wrestler qualifies for State.

Guymon to OKWA Northwest Regional Tournament in Stillwater, OK round trip: 536 miles

Guymon to OKWA State in Tulsa, OK round trip: 652 miles

Total miles traveled: 536 + 652 = 1,188

Guymon to District IV South Dodge City, KS round trip: 258

Guymon to District IV Championships Pratt, KS round trip: 346

Guymon to Kansas Kid's State Topeka, KS round trip: 778

Total miles traveled: 1,382 for an extra 194 miles traveled.

Plus you have one extra weekend where you have additional food costs and potential hotel expenses.

If I were in their shoes I would be grateful if an exception was made to let my child compete in the Kansas State tournament, however, there would be no sense of entitlement that they must be allowed to compete because "we paid our dues". The attorney also stated that the parents were filing this because they "spoke of the disappointment of their sons". I'm sure there will be some very "disappointed" Kansas wrestlers who won't being going to their own state's tournament because they are beat out by a wrestler from another state...

bottom line is it's a KS tournament if you don't live in KS you can't compete. how hard is that to understand.

i am sincere when i say that i am sorry that the kids had to endure this. but i think that as adults, the hugoton club, and parents need to look in the mirror when they are pointing the blame.

what have you done to start a club in guymon?
will you take the easy way out next year and lie about your address?
will you teach these kids to fight for what they want, or will you teach them always blame others when things don't turn out the way they wanted?
will they ever respect the decisions of an administrator at school, a superior at work?
will they learn that sometimes life isn't fair?
are they getting the right life lessons from wrestling?
i hope so, our youth are our future, but that doesn't mean that we can't make sure they have our best interest in mind when that take over. its a revolving door, we take care of them now so that they can take care of us later. will they be prepared when we pass the torch?
are you preparing the child for the path, or the path for the child?

They have money to hire lawyers and file a lawsuit but they are too lazy to start their own club in oklahoma and do things right. Then they come on here and accuse kansas of being scared to wrestle their kids what a bunch of horse poop. I guess next year they may have to get off their butts and start their own club if they want to wrestle.

I have mixed emotions on this, I think that it should have been decided in October and been the end of it not wait till the season is alomost over, now about starting their own club that is easier said than done what about mats(they are expensive) and a coach that knows what they are doing. These people have said they are new to the sport so they can't go coach these kids and teach them anything productive without knowledge. I think let them finish the season and make the rules to not let them in next year. JMO and lawsuit is not the way to go but that is the world we live in.

Richerd ur just hateing cause ur boys probly can't beat these boys!.... so here's something for ya keep ur mouth shut !!!

Rassler shut up !!! Look who's on there butt now! Just worry about urself and keep on walking !!! Yall r just scared that's what!!

Sad that no one has clue.It is called KANSAS STATE not where ever state.

I did not think this bad for the kids to hit the mat,till the lawyers got in it.Now I say DONOT let them go to state.

Sad,the people are so clue less,they are asking to go to state in a state they do not live in.

They can start an Oklahoma club and still practice and attend regular season tournaments with Hugoton. They would just have to wrestle in the Oklahoma state series.

It seems eazy to me Rassler.We will be doing the same thing next year.We will start a new club and practice where we can find a good mat and kids.

They should have saved the cash they spent on the lawyer for mats.

Haters!!!

nobody said anything about this sport being easy?
the frontenac club found a way to purchase mats. sounds alot like an excuse. do wrestlers make excuses?
i'm sure that they could still practice with the hugoton club and coaches. see jeremy finding solutions not excuses! we practice with other clubs all the time, do any derby kids practice with another club? maybe 1 night a week?

[/quote] lawsuit is not the way to go but that is the world we live in. [/quote]
it's the world that people make it. we don't have to live in it. we need to change. stop this now, or we never will, one lawsuit, could result in hundreds. when will it end?

I'm wondering what has been done with the Oklahoma board to resolve this issue? Is that not who should have to take care of this problem? For the parents to take lawful action against KS and cost us money is crazy. Thanks for costing us money to fight it parents! As long as the kids are here for this year, good luck to the kids.

Matt Blancarte

Two years ago we had the privilage of meeting the Locke family from Oklahoma. They were wrestling with the Hugoton club. A very polite family and competitor in my son's weight division. Ejoyed the time we spent with them at the pool (in the Kansas motel), on a friday, so they clearly had supper in Kansas, stayed in a Kansas motel, wrestled in the Kansas tournament,ate breakfast and lunch at the tournament, and probably ate supper before heading back to Oklahoma. If my son were in the position that these kids are in I'd hope they'd give him a chance. They are clearly bringing money to the the stae of Kansas and as a tax payer I am all for them wrestling in Kansas. Why was it alright for them to wrestle in Kansas before but seems to be an issue now(in the middle of the season)?

I go to MO every year and spend cash for my son to wrestle.2/3 rds of his kin lives over there.At no time did I ever think becouse we spend cash there we should get to go to MO state.I know there is alot of people that go to 4 or 5 states a year.Sould they get to go to every one of there state.

My son would never be in the position them kids are in.I would have known it was not right to go to a difrant state than where I lived.It should have been a given that Kansas kids state is for kids that live in Kansas.

Have you ever been to Western Kansas??? The closest our high school kids travel to a highschool activity is 40 miles. It's far and few between. We welcome compition. Have you seen gas prices lately? Does the state name matter? We're bettering your kids.



Danny Morris

Yes the state name matters, If you are from kansas you wrestle at kansas kids state, If you are from oklahoma you wrestle at oklahoma kids state. Gas prices shouldn't matter to them they paid for a lawyer to start legal proceedings I am sure that would have paid for their gas to attend Oklahoma kids state.

You must be from Eastern Kansas too where everythings close. Welcome to Western Kansas. I feel for the Oklahoma Panhandle wrestlers.

culo are you from Oklahoma? wherever you are from the school system must be proud of your grasp of the english language.

Texas must have very good english teachers, From your posts I would be willing to bet that they may be some of the best in the nation.

No offense "rassler," but what you just commented on and the way you pronounce your name is ironic!! That's funny!

Mowrestling
we drive over 40 mins to practice 3 days a week.It is part of the game if you live in no where land.If people want to cry about how far they have to drive MOVE to a big city.

Once agin I did not have any thing to say to this till they got a lawyer.Now I think every one should say some thing. The good old USA is getting bad when people hire a lawyer to sue A state kids program.

Whoops sorry I ment I have nephews wrestling this kids ....they got potential!

Lets see a show of hands How many of you are from D4 and how many from D1 or D2 or D3?????? Let me guess most of you are from the east and have no idea what it is like out west. Before you jump on me. Do some research they had a club Texas County Wrestlers. The club dibanded when Kansas said yes you can wrestle here and you can do our state series. They have ask every year and have been told yes or no early in the year and the answer has been yes. So this year it is yes maybe then no that is why they have a lawyer. My mother taught me manners you don't invite someone to your house for dinner then kick them out when it is time for dessert. That is wrong.

blah blah blah - My mother taught me manners you don't invite someone to your house for dinner then kick them out when it is time for dessert. That is wrong. [/quote Jule]

How about when you ask your guests to go back home and they refuse to leave, what then. Your mom should of taught you common sense to go with your manners.

BTW- I would suggest that the forum moderator translate the word culo, as in the username culo71. class act for sure these folks.
Any support they had from others is most certainly starting to dwindle. And im sure given the few replies I have seen from the supporters of these folks im gonna get a page full : ) let the beatings begin.

Boo Hoo....wrestle in the state tournament where you live....OKLAHOMA. Kansas helped you out and now you are suing them and costing the kids money. Congratulations....thanks for taking my kids money.

all you western ks whiners pay close attention.

we have kids on our club who- drive 2+ hrs to practice every monday- stay home for practice tuesday- drive 1.5 hrs to practice on wednesday- stay home on thursday.

we have kids on our club who- have wrestled in 6 states so far this season.

if you don't really now how someone does things, don't open your mouth. i live in the south eastern part of KS. guess what i can be at 7 high schools in 30 minutes. SO WHAT, that has nothing to do with this at all.

our kids drive for practice, for better practice partners, different coaching philosophies, more drilling, more live wrestling, and a number of different things..................... they didn't sue our club for gas money!!!!

the kids who have wrestle ALL OVER, in 6 different states......... are NOT going to 6 DIFFERENT state tournaments.

if they had a club and then was disbanded because KS said yes once, then all the crying about mats, etc. is a mute point.

guess what i am not alone, there are kids in every club, who sacrifice their TIME AND MONEY to work their butts off and get better.

I probably agree with the statement the most. Hate to have it in the courts, but that's the society we live in. I don't agree with it but I deal with it.

classy

another classy statement, i don't think you have the right to tell anyone to keep there mouth shut!!!

Let they wrestle, should of been told in October, get it over with and just make them sign a waiver next year when we sell them cards. Their lawsuit will only cost us money if we contest it. Lets just annex that part of Oklahoma. We, as USA wrestling, will just make it our own. We should then start with parts of the other surrounding states that are out in the middle of no where. You know, kind of an answer to Cookley's talk about re-districting. Grow D4 thru expansion.

This is one of those things that falls under management decsion. If we (KS Wrestling) didn't intend to let them wrestle in state we should have let them know verbaly and written. "We will sell you cards if you want, but we will not let you preticipate in our state tournament." And in plenty of time for them to make other arrangments and plans in OK. If we failed to do that we owe them it to them to let them wrestle. This is for the kids and cheating the kids out of a State wrestling opportunity. Because of a misunderstanding. On their or our parts is not fair to the kids. Let them wrestle.

Jon, I have to disagree with you on this one. Do not let them wrestle, just on principle alone. They are from Oklahoma, not Kansas, and this is THE KANSAS STATE WRESTLING TOURNAMENT. Whether they will admit it or not, they had plenty of time to enter the Oklahoma series.

I know and see your point. Its just I never like to see the kids suffer. Our job as an orginization is to nurture kids wrestling. And though I maybe wrong and have no intention of reading the entire post here. Haven't we let this happen in the past? With the same club I mean.

They have allowed and denied these kids, depending on the year.
They knew there was a chance to be denied.

so district 4 did not get to vote on this issue, do you think if district 4 would have things might have been diffrent?

do you think there might have been a motive by not allowing district 4 to vote on this issue?

i do not aggree with the lawsuit.

i am not 100% sure how the board works but i would think district 4 would or should be allowed to vote on all and any matters that district 1,2 and 3 can vote on.

Every year it has been the same way. just this year they voted no.I think they should never have voted yes in the 1st place.

Let some one come eat at your home and now they sue you for desiding not to let them come eat agin.

I say the same DO NOT let them in state.Our job is to help kids wrestle and grow in to good adults.I do not think teaching them to sue is the way to do it.This is one big problem we have in the USA.Spill you hot coffee then sue,get bit by the dog in the home you are robbing than sue,sad.

If they wanted the kids to wrestle at a state meet they should have went for a sure thing and went to there own state.Or they could put it in the handsof the bord and GAMBLE.Gess what they lost.Now they want to sue becouse they Gambled.

sorry you didn't like my earlier post nix, i probably let my emotions get the best of me. shame on me. but this whole "if i don't get my way, i sue" mentallity is something that really gets me going.

i really do think that the real victims here are the kids. i haven't seen anything that suggests that these folks have done anything to build a program. to me that's the injustice.

as for your post here. please correct me if i'm wrong richard. D4 did vote. it's a democracy, voted down 3-1.

the way i understand it district 4 was not allowed to vote due to having one more member anyway that's the way i read it.

as for the lawsuit i aggree with you 100% i sure wish it could have been handled in a diffrent manor.

and again the board really did bring this on them selfs anytime you make exceptions this is bound to happen.

i cannot see why they even allowed out of state wrestlers to take part of our state tournament in the first place i mean what was they thinking, it did not make sense then nor does it make sense now.

i still say we should have let them finish this year then put a stop to it for good, they have already been allowed 2 years in a row what would it have hurt this year. then make a no exceptions rule and be done with it.

in the end i do respect any and all the boards decisions even if i do not aggree.

but i would like to know if district 4 was or was not allowed to vote on this issue.

Just because they were issued KS cards doesn't mean they are eligible to wrestle in the KS State series. We know of several KS kids that bought MO USAW cards to wrestle in MO early in the season, MO will not allow the KS kids to wrestle in the MO State series and they do not have to purchase new cards to wrestle in the KS State series. It is all based on residency and school attendence - not on what State is listed at the top of your USAW card.

it was your board of directors that said they were eligible, 2 years in a row, so if they were not eligible how did they enter those years?

District 4 did vote on the request.

There was no motive. Districts 1, 2, and 3 simply believe in doing what is best for KANSAS residents participating in the qualifying series.

Finally something we can agree upon!

District 4 does vote on all matters Districts 1, 2 and 3 vote on.

I have been following this since its posting, my thoughts for what they are worth.

While I haven't been involved in the kids wrestling like I once was, I was at one time, and still spend time helping some kids on occasion. That said:

Some Kansas Kids go to Oklahoma, (I know not a USA State for Kids) or other states like Missouri or even Colorado to wrestle early, and I have never heard of a Kansas kid petitioning those states to wrestle for their state. I also know some kids buy their USA cards out of state for various reasons.

I firmly believe the USAWKS Board members have done what they felt was best, and while hindsight is 20/20 there are likely some that have had some issues with this for some time.

I agree with much of what has been said, the guidelines should have been clearer from the beginning, and not waited until mid season. That said it wasn't, so don't hold grudges, but make sure this doesn't happen again.

I agree with Beeson as well, while this could likely cost money, it needs to be fought to stand for principle. The principle of this could set precedent, and I personally can't understand a judge letting an Oklahoma resident wrestle for a Kansas State Championship.

I also think folks need to be careful with their comments, while they may not like the situation, we need to be careful to not blame the kids, for what I consider the selfish actions of the parents in this situation. As much as I hate to say it, the club also bears some responsibility for this by either not making things clear, or by not following through with concept that this is a Kansas State Championship. I personally see benefits of border towns allowing wrestlers to participate, but I also see need to communicate guidelines to those wrestlers and parents from the outset.

Now for full disclosure, a number of years ago I had moved to Kansas the week after the Oklahoma State Tournament. As deadlines fall, we were in Kansas prior to the state tournament qualification series. We asked about joining a club here but was told that he would not be eligible for state since he had at that time not enrolled in a school in Kansas. He enrolled the Monday after the series had started. We accepted that and moved on and had no problem with it.

I fully suspect the Board will make this right for next year, I hope they decide to proceed, even though it will cost to stand on principal this year. While one may not like those sort of costs, it is at times to be expected. The other thing I would ask, is this as I don't think it has been asked, is there any insurance for the organization which will help with the legal expenses. I know I carry professional liability that covers these types of expense. If there is, for sure fight through on this, if there isn't I still think it worth the cost.

if we're judging class, here's one of the classiest things on here. i shared a couple of stories, mr. furches, has given a great one here. there ARE better ways of going about this stuff.

Just let them wrestle this year and fix it next year. Just so some of you know that are unhappy with the parents. One boy will be playing basketball next year because there is no way for him to wrestle he would rather play round ball then deal with all the stuff. He is a good kid and a great wrestler. Some of the others well their father is trying his hardest to be transferred to kansas with his job so his boys can wrestle. They are trying so don't think that the aren't.

I am pledging $50.00 for the Kansas legal fees.

Mark Butcher
316-312-8037

finally we hear that something (other than a lawsuit) is being done. something positive will come of all this. that's the message that should be conveyed to these kids.

is it true that they had a club at one time?

Yes , HEADUP the club was called Texas County Wrestling. The had mats, place to practice, and a coach and everything. When Kansas said yes the first time they donated the mats to the Hugoton club and disbanned their club.

I keep seeing people on here talk about wrestling in 6 different states and they would never ask to be apart of that states States Tournament series. All I have to say is DUH!!! Why would you you don't belong to a club in that state. These boys BELONG to a club in Kansas not an Oklahoma club they choose to become a part of our state and our wrestling programs here. If we didn't want them why did we say yes they would have stayed in Oklahoma. We welcomed them with open arms. They should finish with us.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Parents of wrestlers, or any person with relation in the Kansas Wrestling association. I will apologize for this very lengthy statement but hope you will read it with an open mind.I send this out with the utmost respect to all other clubs and your opinions. I just really wanted some of you to have some more FACTS before you feel one way or the other about this situation. My 2 sons wrestle in the Hugoton Club. The boys that wrestle in our club from Guymon Ok, do not go to any Oklahoma tournaments. They compete with our kids in KS every weekend. They are truly valued in our club as they help with tournaments, coach on the sides at all the tournaments, help encourage and support all the kids in our club besides their own. It takes so many active parents to help have a good functioning club and these are those kind of passionate and dedicated parents.I would like you to know that these parents have strong ties to SW Kansas. Troy and Dixie grew up in Garden City. They still have many family members there and own land in Finney County, KS. Troy is in Kansas weekly because of his job. Guymon is centrally located for his range of weekly traveling he does. Jeff works for Eagle Med ( Flight for Life) in Liberal, Ks. He stays many nights a month in Liberal. Jesus and Daniel work for a corporation that expands over much the SW corner of Kansas. I believe the closest OK club would be Woodward OK, which is 2 1/2 hours away. These families have been devoted to our club and the Kansas Wrestling tournaments. I feel like it is an awesome compliment that they want to be solely affiliated with our great Kansas Wrestling Association. It is unfair that we do not let them finish the season. Is that not what we teach our kids? I am positive I have seen most of you coaches and parents enforcing that. What does that say to these kids? This should have been decided on in December on 2010 not in the middle of the season. And I strongly feel like Dist 4 should have had a vote or at the very least a representative to speak on their behalf. I would also like for all of you to know that there is only legal action for an injunction to the by laws for 4 boys to participate in the state tournament. There is no law suit for monetary damages. I do not like the courts to have to come into organizations either, but when you are backed against a wall.... who knows what I would do for my child if they were passionate about something they were being denied. I am not in that situation and it is unfair for me to claim what I would or wouldn't do.

Finally,I would like to address the young men that this is effecting, No matter what the outcome of this is, PLEASE don't give up wrestling. You boys are very talented and are a joy to be with. Your hearts are big and your talent is strong. It will be our loss if we lose you in our club. Chin up boys, this isn't personal. It is hard even as an adult not to let it become that way. So I know it is hard for you to understand.
I had one of the OK parents ask me yesterday at the Hays tournament if I was going to wear my Club shirt or even sit with them...... and they were serious! I feel like most people out there aren't hateful or would not treat my boys poorly because they disagree with my opinion or because I am a part of the Hugoton Wrestling Club. I sure hope I am right about the decency people. We are all passionate about this sport for our children and our opinions, but I ask you when you come across one of these boys, talk to them......they love this sport too!

Seemed to me everyone with a Hugoton shirt was wearing it proudly yesterday at Hays!!!! Good for them!!!!!!!

the post about wrestling in 6 states was more to put a stop to the "poor me, i have to travel" vibe that this post was beginning to send. THIS SPORT IS EXPENSIVE, AND TRAVEL IS A BIG PART OF THOSE EXPENSES for wrestlers in all 4 districts.

sounds like they will finish with US/KS. the lawsuit will surpass the time frame of sub-districts. although i hate the lawsuit, i am glad that they will get to compete for a state title.

have you not also seen the posts where people ARE members of clubs in other states, and STILL do not believe that it is there right to compete in that state's series?

so can they still practice with Hugoton after all this is said and done?

could Hugoton donate the mats back to the texas county wrestlers?

jule- sometimes things change, sometimes things are voted upon, and the ultimate outcome is unforseen. it is unfortunate that these youngsters have had such misleadings by adults.
1- having their club disbanded
2- being allowed to wrestle "out of state"
3- being told yes once
4- being told yes twice
5- being told that since you were told yes twice, it will be yes again
6- having a state committee vote, after the season had begun
7- having coaches etc. drag their feet, and fail to get signed up for OK series
8- having a lawsuit filed, ultimately throwing gasoline on a brush fire
9- thus ending any chance for an amicable decision

look i know that nix, and many other people probably think that i am a bad person. but fact of the matter is i am in this for the kids. i was taught a long time ago by my high school football coach to "see the forrest, for the trees". i really would like to see some more solutions come up, for these young men, not just for today, i mean their future. so they wrestle in the state series this year. THEN WHAT??? sometimes life doesn't have perfect endings, but they can be happy endings. if the adults in this situation take some responsibility. i 100% believe that these kids have been wronged by about every single adult in their life right now. just because the first solution failed, and the second solution will be short lived, doesn't mean that these kids are done. does it????

kristy read the above quote. D4 did vote, it's a democracy. the other 3 districts voted against the request. come on, we live in a democracy. this is a proud country. we aren't questioning a democracy are we? majority wins, live with it.

Give it a rest people....

Why should anyone give it a rest? It should have been put to rest with the decision from the state board. It wasn't, a lawsuit was filed. Why should anyone give it a rest? I don't hold anything against the kids. I do hold anger towards the parents for the lawsuit. Life will always be "unfair". These people are preparing the path for the child instead of the child for the path.

You have it on the button there Beeson.

I for sure would not question democracy!!! A persons tone is sometimes questionable through these posts. So I won't question the intention of your statement to me. I have no choice but to live with alot of decisions that representatives have made for me. Pardon me, but there has not been alot of information on here about the voting process that took place. So it is dually noted that Dist 4 did vote...UNDERSTOOD!!!! I only wonder if there was on opportunity to have a civil discussion prior to this vote. I only posted earlier because I felt like it was clausable for someone to make a statement with Hugoton Wrestling Club, which by no means represents the thoughts of all Hugoton Wrestling Parents and coaches. Sir... we will live with it!

HEADUP, no i do not think your a bad person at all.

you have your opinion, and i have mine as well as beeson and all others have there opinion. i feel in a situation like this input from all is great. i will never be upset or feel wronged just because someone differs from my opinion.

i enjoy reading all of your guys and gals opinion.

i am just glad see so many of you voice an opinion either way on the subject, the only way change can be made is buy listening to others input.

i will be honest after reading everyones views on this subject i am on the fence now of what my opinion is now.

all i can say is i respect the board for standing behind there decision they made, and i respect the oakies for there fight, i just don't aggree with getting courts involved with it.

good luck to all involved i am rooting for both sides to resolve this issue. hopefully without the courts.

and that was my mistake by thinking district 4 did not vote, and i am sorry for the confusion i read it wrong totally my fault so sorry for that ignorant statement on my part. won't happen again

Nix, make no apology as I should have seen that post as well. It gets kind of confusing reading through this. I will try to make this my last statement on the matter and leave well enough alone.......it is hard when you know these boys. If for a second, you can imagine having a hand full of boys in your club since you joined, and imagining them not being there when they want to be. It is just a little sad TO ME. And you are all right when you say life isn't fair, it's just not! So on this side of the fence, I just love these little guys so my heart is in the right place for wanting them to be with us but I know when the by law changes....and it will. It is the law! There will be no questions about it. Thanks Nix for reminding me that this on here for an appreciation for everyones opinion. As i stated earlier to the boys... it's not personal!It is just hard to remember that!!!

kristy i meant no disrespect at all towards you either.

i too am trying to find more answers on this.

i can tell that all parties are passionate about this.

i can assure you without ever meeting any of these young men, my heart goes out to each and everyone of them.

i just think alot of energy has been spent on this situation, but i question how much has been done to fix the problem for good.

after this lawsuit, what happens next year???

If our state body votes to not allow out of state kids, then the kids can continue to wrestle. They can practice at Hugoton, but register as their own club in OK. They can wrestle wherever they want, including Kansas, until the state series, then they can do the OK state series. Don't put a guilt trip on the whole state of Kansas. If these kids quit wrestling, it is their own family's decision, not ours.........

it should have been put two rest three years ago with a "no" in the first place bee so when I say give it a rest i am talking to people like you who are not just attacking these parents but also the kids. Does your kid have to wrestle one, i doubt it. Mine does and we dont care cause when my boy sees him and i see him he is not an Okie,he is a American... a good kid and yes he has beat my boy everytime this year, so what give it a rest....

it should have been put two rest three years ago with a "no" in the first place bee so when I say give it a rest i am talking to people like you who are not just attacking these parents but also the kids. Does your kid have to wrestle one, i doubt it. Mine does and we dont care cause when my boy sees him and i see him he is not an Okie,he is a American... a good kid and yes he has beat my boy everytime this year, so what give it a rest....

I'm having trouble with my 3 year old not taking "NO" for an answer. He thinks if he whines and cries enugh, he will get his way. I explain that rules are rules and he needs to respect them. I hope he doesn't sue me.

Mark Butcher

Dont get me wrong I do not think this club should have done what they done, but what ever we say wont matter. Its like this Mr.Butcher lets say you are kicking the crap out of Beeson in front of his kids, your not physically touching his kids but I am sure you are hurting them just the same. I must have missed the post where these guys said they were going to sue, i thought they just got a lawyer so they could finish what they started...

YOu have Butcher confused with Lucas Baker. Lucas is the one that is gonna beat up Beeson............

I'm having trouble with my 3 year old not taking "NO" for an answer. He thinks if he whines and cries enugh, he will get his way. I explain that rules are rules and he needs to respect them. I hope he doesn't sue me


Mr. Butcher
When you are teaching your 3yr old rights from wrongs, maybe you should teach some maturity also so he does not grow up to make immature comments when a topic is starting to seem somewhat positive. These past few post on this thread have been fairly positive. People are speaking their mind, but yet being respectful toward the kids, Some may agree with the boards decision, some may not, but everyone has their own opinion. I am one to speak strongly about my opinions at times also. but when things are somewhat positive on a subject, there is no sence in trying to stir the pot with a comment like yours.

I am glad to hear a decision is being made one way or another with this matter. I hope next year it will be up front with the decision so these athletes dont have to go through this again.


Lance Geyer

Come on Geyer, have a sense of humor. In today's age of frivolous lawsuits, I thought it was funny.
Lighten up..

Come on Geyer, have a sense of humor. In today's age of frivolous lawsuits, I thought it was funny.
Lighten up..

lets not blame the club, i think the parents of these boys brought the courts into it. i hope everyone still treats the club, parents of these boys, and the boys themself with respect.

now i am really lost?

How are you lost?

I agree it would be funny, if so many negative comments weren't made in 7 pages before, i just felt that this post was finally turning somewhat positive for once. And i agree in this day and age people do get lawyer happy. I guess i let my sensitive side get the best of me and i was looking for positives today

Lance Geyer

at a loss of words, first time ever. WHERE IS WINDJAMMER WITH THAT PAINT WE CAN USE HIM NOW.

Just wanted to clear up one thing we are not sueing anyone, just wanted to finish what these kids have started.


Thanks for all the support

I was just making a piont. Why can't people take no for an answer? Thats all. You Knew in Oct that this would be voted on in Jan and there was a posability that you wouldn't get to wrestle but you went ahead and took the chance.
I agree with you 100%, it's not the kids fault, it's the people that are trying to bully our board members. Sorry for hurting anyones feelings but sometimes the truth hurts.

Why do people argue over opinions? Opinions are not facts, so why argue? Most people's opinions are subject to their circumstances ( or lack of circumstances)..... one man's truth is also not another man's truth. I have seen numerous times, "the truth hurts", exactly who's truth is that? It is just a side you are taking, not the truth of it's entirity.

Quote from my 14 year old wrestler as he reads through these posts...."Let's just shut up and wrestle already." I agree!

I agree with you Kristy and your son...

here's a quote from my 7 year old. "you get what, you get, and you don't throw a fit"

i don't understand why it has to be seen as arguing, or negative when someone is simply stating their opinion.

the only time i got upset is when people tried to make it a geography thing, and claim that one side of the state has it easier than the other.

opinions should be based on facts....that's why i have asked some of these tough questions.

i don't see any of this as arguing, i see it as good conversation, that will eventually benefit ks wrestling, and hopefully benefit these young men from OK.

oh yea, heres a quote from my unborn child.

"I HOPE WERE NOT DEALING WITH THIS ISSUE EVER AGAIN"

good ol' nix! lol. but now we're joking again. i forget is joking good or bad? and who decides? .

i think in a situation like this, everyone's emotions run high, people are taking others opinions as personal and there not, as long as we keep thinking postive we are being productive. a joke here and there i would hope lightens the mood a little.

does anyone have an update on how thing's are going with this, are they wrestling at sub's or any news about how this court thing is going?

i will do some complaining we have about a foot of snow down here in scott city with more on the way, jeffrey is 2 pounds over weight and the kids are home due to the school closeing due to the snow, and i am stuck listing to tom and jerry.

his name is windjammer

The TRUTH is that the board said they could not wrestle in the tournament. An OPINION is that the parents think that the decision is unfair. The TRUTH is the Parents hired an attorny. The TRUTH is this is costing money. My OPINION is I'm PISSED, that could be the TRUTH also.

The odds are that we won't be after the next state body meeting. I'm predicting a constitutional admendment will pass in a landslide!

It's dated 3/3/2011. Just very sloppy handwriting....

richard, if they were denied in january 2008, how were the able to enter the state tournament in march of 2009.

sorry guys to keep this going just trying to figure this out for myself. everyone keeps saying they entered 2 years in a row but with this letter that would seem wrong.

but it aint i went back and looked and they were entered into districts in 2009. so how did they make it in after being denied

The letter which you reference was sent for the 2007-2008 wrestling season. The State Championship Series was held in March of 2008.

The Hugoton Club petitioned for the out of state wrestlers for the 2008-2009 season - hence their entries into the tournament held in March of 2009.

In your zeal to catch Richard in a mistake you look silly as you failed to do the math!

see richard has a sense of humor too, no one in their right mind would think that richard made a mistake. .

Nix, they were denied in January of 2008 and did not wrestle the 2008 State Series. They petitioned again in 2009 and got a favorable decision from the board and again in 2010. In 2010, while their petition was approved, it was a very close vote. In January of 2011 their petition was denied.

The makeup of the board is susceptible to change each year when we hold elections at our Fall meetings and the decision it hands down can vary accordingly. Board decisions are also susceptible to who shows up to the meetings. While attendance is usually high, the decisions the board makes can be influenced by one or two absences...especially in a close vote. Also, as Richard has explained in a previous post, District 4 is allowed 5 votes where all the other districts get only 4 each. In a close vote, this can makes a difference. My only reason for describing this in such detail is to give you an understanding as to how the board could vote one way in 2009, but then have a change of heart in 2010 and 2011.

I will go out on a limb and say that the adults that made the petition should have understood the process, because they had been through it before. Nothing the board did was sneaky or underhanded. The process may not be perfect, but until we change it….ALL of us should live with it.

lmao, ok i am done, i have pretty much been wrong on everything.

richard i will never question you again lol.

i think i will enroll myself in jeffrey's 2nd grade class to start the reading process all over and learn the dates and years a liitle better.

man i cannot believe i did not catch that date i feel like an idiot.

i am done posting on this subject before i mess up my great name, lol.

but i would like to read on how this restraining order is going any info up to date yet. good luck to you all and thanks for pointing out i need to go back to school.

Richard wrong, NEVER!!! But, rude, beyond what is needed, very much, especially today.

And, Mark, the real issue is some parent found out their kid would not make state or not place because of this and complained. Didn't one board member from D1, kind of say he thought it was a good idea at first. Make the way easier, that is what society is about today. If your kid can't beat them, remove them.

The real issue here, at this late moment is 'what is best for the small number of kids involved'. That is a real easy decision. Are people here willing to admit what that is, or is this a saying that we use when convenient, but never really intend to practice. You know once accepted, I would imagine, most involved thought it would continue. Thus, the donating of the mats. They did show good faith. Are we??

The moral high ground is tough, Richard, I am sure you can reclaim it.

Let them wrestle this year and vote at state meeting in fall so they know ahead of time............

John, if you want to know how this District 1 rep voted I will tell you. I am not ashamed of any of my votes. In 2008 I voted NO with the majority opinion, in 2009 I voted NO against the majority opinion, and in 2010 I let the argument that "you can't pull the rug out from under them” sway my vote and voted yes with the slim majority. I did say that would be the only time I would vote to allow them in the tourney. This year I voted NO and my vote is still NO.

I also voted for the amendment that would take this power out of the Board’s hands at the Fall Board meeting and spoke in favor of the amendment at the Fall State body meeting. It is not very often that elected officer’s vote to limit their authority. The Board voted to send this amendment to the body with a favorable recommendation. I guess enough of us on the Board were frustrated with debating this issue every year....and after eight pages of posts I am now really tired of it. I only hope the state body agree with me at next year’s meeting and vote to end the nonsense.

...and John, there was never a parent complaint that swayed any of my NO votes. I would tell you if that played a factor and would not be ashamed either way.

...one more thing. Along with Richard, I have been wrong numerous time; too many to count. But, I am not wrong on this.

Mark, I just think it was too late in the year to make this decision. And, Richard has been wrong???

Each and every time I have been able to vote on this issue I have voted NO to their request to be allowed. I think it is ridiculous that a resident from another state would even have a desire to say they were a state champion in a state that they don't attend school in. Here are the facts:

Oklahoma's series is in February and only takes up two weekends.

The Hugoton Club was aware that these kids stood almost no chance of being allowed to compete in the Kansas series this year. The District 4 contingent of board members saw the Executive Board vote, nearly unanimously, to terminate this issue permanently.

The Guymon, OK group could have entered the Oklahoma series to safeguard participation in the likely event that they were not allowed to compete as Kansans.

Nearly 20 Kansas Kids will not be wrestling because of errors committed by their parents or club representatives this year. I would be much more inclined to fight for their participation that assist in a cause that could lead to a Kansas Kid not making it to state because they were beaten by an out of stater.

There are plenty of tournaments to wrestle in during the three weeks of the Kansas Kids series. If they want to wrestle they have choices.

On many, many occasions, just not on this issue. I also did not vote for kcaraB amabO.

are they going to be able to wrestle subs this weekend?

We are going before the judge today to find out.

6-5 pickem

also are the kids good enough that they will place in state? have they placed before? if not then why go through all this mess just to be able to wrestle for an extra weekend, maybe 2

Not sure on all the wrestlers, but at least one (10/79) would very likely make it to state, and could do well there.

deleted

ok. i was just wondering wasnt trying to belittle the kids.

I know that if my son lost in the Kansas State finals to a kid from Oklahoma, it would be almost unbearable to deal with. How would you explain that to family and friends who have not been reading this forum? People on here talk about just letting them wrestle, finish the year, all that crap. For those Kansans saying this, I hope your kid runs across one of them, then you can deal with the outcome.
I can't imagine saying someday that, "we would have won the Kansas State wrestling tourny, but we got beat in the finals by an Oklahoma kid".

i can't imagine a kansan hopeing a kansas kid gets beat by an oklahoma kid just to prove a point about an opinion his parents made on a public forum.

i hope all you kansas kids win over the oakie's no matter what your parent's opinion is go getem kansas.


jmo.

So does anyone know what happened in court today?

I went to the hearing today. I did not get to stay for the final ruling but visited with the parents at practice this evening. The kids will not be attending the Districts,in which means, they will not be at State. Of course, the courts had to follow what the law says. The judge ruled with KS Wrestling. I know whole heartedly that I was and still am pursuaded by my emotional ties to these kids, so please don't criticize for that. Though i totally expect some negative comment to be made. I just wanted to state the outcome.

Thanks to any of you that put yourself in this situation and cheeered the kids on. I am sure their parents appreciated it. And if you didn't agree, it is just an opinion and the one that the court agreed with.

Good luck to everyone in the next few weeks!

Well since you brought it back up, I will have to say that most of the people on here in favor of the Ok. kids wrestling here, probably are not concerned, due to the fact that they are not as good as their kid, or their kid does not have any of them in their class. Its easy to say these things when they do not really pertain to you. And yes, if you are for this, then I do hope that you have to deal with the consequences. At the top of this screen it says Kansas Wrestling, not Midwest State Chmpionships wrestling. I can guarantee that if one of these kids were a beast, similiar to Andrew Gamble of Mo., people would be all over this situation, worse than they are now. Nothing could be worse than an out of stater winning the state championships. Nix, I am really surprised that you read my last post, I figured you were still chasing flies.

SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!!!!! So many things I want to say but need to keep my emotions in check. This just isn't right. I am upset with so many people for this. You can attack me if you choose to that is fine. You are not going to change my mind and I hope Karma gets everyone who was so negative about this. No one should treat kids this way. Good Luck to all the Hugoton boys that are still wrestling! I know who you will be thinking of in the next few weekends.

2008...

I just walked in the door from the long drive home from Hugoton.

Mr. Brunson is a stand up man.

caught that fly and moved on.

I just wanted to..............

My son wrestled for Purler Wrestling Academy for two years, it is at Parkhill HS, Mo. We drove 75 miles every week to wrestle with a team that is mostly Missouri kids. Tucker made friends with many of these kids. We also wrestled many Mo. tourneys, but not at any time did it occur to me that we should be allowed to wrestle in the qualifying tournaments in Mo. We even wrestled for Team Victory, from Oak Park Mo. in the Park Hill duals... It seems like it is about a seven hour drive from Hugoton to Topeka, wouldn't it be just as close to drive to Oklahoma City? I am completly fine being on a team from another state, if it helps your kids get the most wrestling experience, but to think that that allows you anything more is selfish, and puts the Hugoton team under much pressure being caught in between. After the regular season of Hugoton allowing you to wrestle there with open arms, be respectful, and drive south east to your state championships.

Richard did nothing wrong. He presented the case that KANSAS WRESTLING voted on and approved of. He was not out to get 8 year old boys or ten year old boys. He was out to get what they Kansas State Board had approved and voted on. The Judge Agreed. I wish these boy the best and hope they do well in the Oklahoma State Championships next year.

SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!!! First of all, Wishing bad karma on all the people that supported the RULES is bad karma. I would look both ways when crossing the steet if I were you. "NO ONE SHOULD TREAT KIDS THIS WAY" If you are so concerned about kids then why would you wish them bad karma? 99% of the kids that go to state want to win or loose to a Kansas kid not a Oklahoma kid. I think you should apologize to all the Kansas kids and the people that supported the boards decision and take back the kara remark.
I just want to make it clear that my son and I only suported the rules and the decision of the board. Like I have said before, RULES ARE RULES and we need to respect them and not try to weasel our way around them.
Good luck to all the Hugoton KANSAS boys and all the other KANSAS kids that make it to the KANSAS STATE tournament. Good Karma to ALL.

Mark Butcher

the real victim is the kids.

the real shame about this is that their parents, coaches, club officers, can't stop pointing fingers at others and take some responsibility for their own actions.

the texas cty wrestling club took disbanded and looked for an easier way

the hugoton club should have forseen some of this

the KS board was "nice" once and let them slide, the parents should be more thankful, that there was ever an opportunity. take all your undeserved hatred for KS wrestling and turn that into positive energy and bring back the TEXAS CTY WRESTLERS.
go to OK state.

again the kids are the victims, but there are other adults to blame other than the KS board, KS people, and richard salyer.

Great post Headup, hit the nail on the head.

The real victim is all the Kansas kids whos state money had to be spent on lawyer fees. Did the state get attorney fees in the ruling?

I doubt it...but the Attorney who can afford to travel Europe, just so he can appreciate what he has in the good ole USA, sure got a buttload of money. I doubt he did it just because he felt it was wrong. He is the only real winner, if thats what we can call someone like that, in the whole affair.

Actually, the attorney for the Oklahoma wrestlers stated she was providing her serviced pro bono (free). The loser was USAW Kansas Kids for defending our position to limit participation in the USAW Kansas Kids State Qualifying Championship Series.

Oh and what was Kansas position last year, and the year before that, and especially the year before that. Looks like USAWKS is the one that has no consistent position.

So because previous boards made what now can be determined to be wrong decisions we should make those same decisions in perpetuity?

Because there has been alot of negative about the parents of these boys I want to let you know what kind of people we are talking about. These parents have been told their boys can't wrestle they are done. So what did they do on this their first free Saturday in months. They were at Sub-districts in Dodge City supporting the other Hugoton boys, working a table and helping to coach. Kansas has lost some very fine people and some amazing boys. It was sad to watch the boys be towels boys when the should have been wrestling.

They did show a lot of Heart!!!

Heck yea it showed a lot of heart to come all the way to Dodge to watch. Just shows the character of the parents and the loyalty to a club. What a deal!! Way to be the bigger person and step up to help out. Would have been so easy to throw in the towel and be done with it, but you all didn't. I think that showed a lot of character.

I think the horse is dead, Quick, keep beating it. Please, can we move on and just all get along : )

The pizza was really good at Bishop.............. .........................

Better than the pig Butch?????

NOT EVEN CLOSE. We just purchased a small farm south of Goddard. Mark can't wait to raise another hog. Journey wants a lamb and some chickens............We should have one hell of a BBQ. LOL

I was told that the Hugoton Attorney did it for nothing. He may have a buttload of money but he didn't make it off this case.