Middle School Season Needing your Feedback!!!

This thread is meant for everyone that has, had or will have a middle school wrestler especially if you live in District 2 or 3 and participate in the Pioneer League. Over the years there has been several threads on why/why not wrestle for the middle school and while there are good points on both sides, one of the concerns locally is the timing of the season. Currently our middle school season in District 2&3 runs from Jan 6th to approx March 3 and is consider the late season. Unfortunately this occurs during the meat of the youth season creating for some, reason enough not to join their middle school programs. I think it is safe to say we would all like our kids to be the best they can be while giving them the opportunity to explore new challenges. It is my belief that should the Pioneer League adopt the “early season” (Oct-the 1st of Dec) like many other areas across the state the following advantages could be achieved.

Stronger middle school teams – In terms of participation and quality of matches
Better relationships between the club and middle school program
Provide an opportunity for the kids to also participate in Basketball at the middle school
Allow wrestlers to participate in the club during the critical part of the season
It truly is a win/win/win situation for the kids, school & club!

The purpose of this thread is to ask for your feedback, whether you are in District 2&3 or not, and ask you to consider sending an email to your Middle School AD voicing your thoughts/desire on changing the wrestling season. I have attached the contact information below to make it easy for you or you can also find this information at www.pioneerleague.org on the right side under directory. I will be sending an introductory email to each of the ADs advising them that this post and survey are out here for them to review and hopefully we can start a productive dialogue. It is my understanding that it is the ADs (21 of them) that make the decision on this and they could present this at the upcoming March Kansas Interscholastic Athletic Administrators Association (KIAAA) meeting in Wichita. Just because it has been this way doesn’t make it the best option and together maybe we can make it better. Thanks for your help and feedback! Please see poll at the bottom!

Any questions I can be reached at 316-734-8088 or jsmith462@cox.net


Derby
AD - Russell Baldwin
rbaldwin@usd260.com
Coach - Joaquin Zapata

Goddard
AD - Sean Hollas
shollas@goddardusd.com
Coach - Pat Easum

Haysville West
AD - Jeromy Swearingen
jswearingen@usd261.com
Coach - Dave Hull

Hutchinson
AD - Kevin Armstrong
armstrongk@usd308.com
Coach - Myron Ellegood

Valley Center
Vic Noordhoek
vic.noordhoek@usd262.net
Corey Jones

Maize
AD - Chad Cramer
ccramer@usd266.com
Coach - Jesse Harris

Maize South
AD - Jim Foltz
jdfoltz@usd266.com
Derek Schoenthaler

Newton
AD - Don Cameron
dcameron@newton.k12.ks.us
Coach - John Werner

Andover
AD - Brent Jones
jonesb@usd385.org
Coach - Kyle Oyler

Andover Central
AD - Jennifer Meitler
meitlerj@usd385.org
Caoch - Derek Tuttle

Eisenhower
AD - Greg Clamons
gclamons@goddardusd.com
Coach - Brian Means

Haysville
AD - Clint Shipley
cshipley@usd261.com
Coach - Jesse Shetler

Prairie Hills
AD - Todd Fredrickson
todd.fredrickson@buhlerschools.org
Coach - Scott Clark

Arkansas City
AD - Cathy Vaughn
cathy.vaughn@usd470.com
Coach - Brian Reid

Augusta
AD - Doug Law
dlaw@usd402.com
Coach - Tom Zerr

Circle
AD - Gregg Walls
gwalls@usd375.org
Coach - Mike Longshaw

El Dorado
AD - Mr. Brad Hoy
bhoy@usd263.com
Mr. Dustin Rhodes

Rose Hill
AD - Brant Miller
bmiller@usd394.com
Coach - Martin Wilkes

Wellington
AD - Mr. Brian Aufdengarten
baufdengarten@usd353.com
Coach - Grant Smith

Winfield
AD - Randy Fox
randyfo@usd465.com
Coach - Kevin Hottinger

The late season is a major factor in not wrestling middle school for us.

I would be in favor of you guys doing an early season. The southeast part of kansas has the early season but they are in your district. As it stands, it is really hard for my son to have good competition at events due to the fact that most are in middle school wrestling. Come on over and join the rest of the state.

Lets not forget also to contact the other younger kid's parents in your clubs and have them join in. The more numbers we can produce the better.

check this post out in the high school forum too, it has a few insights offered by some other people. Let me just restate this thought "One more thing, I have brought this up a couple of times and the AD 's response is, "Your the only one I ever hear say anything about this". So, sending the emails would help a bunch."

Jeff,

I recommend you guys push to change your middle school season to the early option. Brock did it for the first time this year (he's in 7th grade) and he had a lot of fun. After studying this for a few years the following are my thoughts to the advantages of having the early season....

1. Kids can wrestle for their school and still wrestle for the club after the school season. I like the idea of kids getting used to wrestling for their school.

2. We end up getting a lot of kids from the local middle school programs in our kids club because they wait until 7th grade to try wrestling. They like it and then they come out for the club. Another factor is that some of them realize they aren't going to be part of the "chosen 10" when they get to be freshmen and so they decide to wrestle.

3. For those that think they may have a chance at the "chosen 10" but are on the bubble they can do both sports. That way when they learn as freshmen that they really aren't part of the "chosen 10" they can still come and wrestle for the high school and have some experience.

One recommendation I would throw out there is to encourage your high school coaches to be the middle school coaches if you go to the early season. This helps the high school coaches get to know the kids and work with them before they get to high school. I have seen this really build depth in some of our high school programs.

Good luck.

Shawn Budke

If you folks want to sell this to the AD's my suggestion would be avoid any reference to how it would impact our sport. You need to remember, most AD's come from a background of that OTHER winter sport. That is where their hearts and minds reside.
Instead of informing them of all the positive impacts such a move would have on wrestling (all of which they already know), you need to demonstrate the positive impacts this move would have on ******ball. Those would include the following...
1. The girls and boys ******ball seasons would be split with the girls running concurrently with wrestling. This has the effect of freeing up much needed gym space so you don't have one sex or another practicing late into the evening.
2. The ability to share the same coaches for both boys and girls ******ball which will allow middle schools to have quality coaches for both sexes. Middle schools are already pressed to find qualified coaches for various sports and anything that reduces that stress is good for both sports and the classroom. This same thing is being done with soccer in many high schools, right now.

I'm sure there are other positive effects for that OTHER winter sport but those are the ones that come to mind and would have the biggest impact.

Sportsfan brings up a very good point. I offer just a very little different spin on it....

Don't focus on the benefits it provides for each sport.....FOCUS on the benefit it provides to all the student athletes. That is it allows the middle school to maximize participation in both sports for the young student athletes. The goal of most middle school athletic programs is to allow kids the opportunity to "try" sports and learn as they are preparing in high school without having to choose between sports.

Having an early wrestling season is best for the kids....it allows the kids maximum opportunity to try a variety of sports so they can make informed decisions when they get to high school.

The part about gym space and coaches is also spot on.

Shawn Budke

Bump

This is the best idea. As a middle school coach, I would love to see this change happen. A goal would be to have a qualifier and a true middle school state championship. I think that if this change was made then the middle school season would be taken more seriously by the general public. However this change will only take place if enough PARENTS jumped on board and started writing letters, emails and making phone calls until they are blue in the face and the leagues and the state has no choice but to give in.

Dave Hull

Today has been extremely encouraging. I have received several positive emails from coaches, administrators and parents. In fact I have yet to hear one negative thing about changing the season. Coach Alley and several others have made excellent points on how this benefits not only the student/athlete but also the school and personnel and we will continue to focus on all of these. In order to have a meaningful dialogue I encourage those that have been against this in the past or maybe still are to share your rational. Together we might be able to come up with solutions to your concerns. If anyone knows where/who the roadblocks are on this issue please PM me their names or post it here as I would love to visit with them personally.

The only way this will get the attention it deserves is by making it known to those that make the decision. Please take the time to spread the word; contact your coaches/AD/parent and share your thoughts.

Stay on this folks because we are having our league activities meeting in May this year not August. I feel there is more support for this than ever before.

How many middle school leagues are there, the names of the leagues and do they have early or late season?

Mid east middle school league.

Onaga, Rock Creek, Mill Creek Valley (Wabaunsee County), Riley County, St. Marys, Rossville, Silver Lake

Early season, which I find somewhat problematic....I would LOVE to wrestle against other schools, not too far away, but they have different seasons.

Probably a good start would be to have maybe a Middle School Forum on here. All the other groups are represented. Makes you wonder why not before???

I posted these two responses on this topic in the high school forum the second was in response to my local club and their efforts to help out our junior high program.

As a middle school coach at one of Pioneer League Schools I have heard from many other coaches including Club coaches that the early season would benefit both the school program and the Club program. I know this was sent out to my AD by me as something I would like to see changed at the middle school level. I have talked to our local club program and they have requested that all of their kids come out for the school but my problem in Goddard is that at my school we have kids in the junior high who wrestle for 5 other different clubs. As of today I have at least 4 club kids who are not out for junior high wrestling. Of those 4 kids 2 of them have personally told me it is because of 2 tournaments (Maize the belt and the Wichita Classic) that they are not wrestling for our Junior high program. 3 of them said they would have wrestled the early season for sure. Please email all your AD's and give them your opinion one way or the other as it would be great to know everyone's feelings on this matter.

Brian Means



I wanted to come to defense of the Goddard club as one of the Junior High Coaches in Goddard. They have been excellent to me and have even requested all of their wrestlers wrestle for the junior high program. I do have all Goddard club kids wrestling for Eisenhower Junior high. The problem here is that we have many outside clubs that pull kids from our schools and then try to get them to stay out with the club during junior high season. I just wanted to make sure that the Goddard club did not get lumped into this.

Thank you Brian Means Eisenhower Middle School Wrestling coach

The main problem in the district two area is the late season. I don't see the trade off for school wrestling and missing Tulsa Nationals, Salina and Mid-America Classic. If kids wrestle in school, they miss oppurtunities in wrestling some of their competition that they will meet at state. Getting the chance to wrestle them at Salina, gives you a chance at seeing where you stand at state. As far as the team concept goes, they have many chances to wrestle in team duals, starting in the fourth grade. The kids that start middle school next year, just wrestled their last Tulsa Nationals and this week will be their last Salina Tourny. It will also be their last Park City Classic. Christian would of wrestled with you Brian, but being his last year at these tournies, he decided to wrestle club. Some of the sixth graders I saw at Tulsa this last weekend, wrestled really great and I'm glad I got to see them at their last Tulsa Nationals. This late season really needs to change and I hope that District two can get it changed.

This is something that needs to happen. To support this movement / proposal, I will be doing the following over the next couple of weeks:

I will request all kids club members parents who agree with this change to sign a petition. I will send a copy of this petition with all the signatures I can gather and send to 1. Valley Centers Middle School Coach. 2. Valley Centers High School coach 3. Valley Centers Athletic Director 4. Jeff Smith as the central figure for this movement.

I do not want to overload the preceeding people with a lot of emails, but I do want them to know our community supports this movement and wants this change

I beleive a vast majority (if not all) of the wrestling coaches want this change, as such, our priority has to be getting the athletic directors to support this change - with a clear understanding the local community wants this.

Cory Schrater
316.371.0250

I owe Goddard Wrestling Club an apology. I was misinformed and unaware that the wrestlers that were not wrestling for the middle school were wrestling for splinter clubs. My sincere apologies.

Some great points brought up by Mr. Bowen, I am so glad to see support from such a strong club as the Brawlers. I would also like to point out to Mr Schrater that many of basketball coaches support this change too. Again, it helps with shortages of gyms and supplies and allows all the focus to be on two teams. Mind you that when we joined the Pioneer league we were forced to start cutting our 7th and 8th grade basketball players and that is not a very popular policy with anyone.

Cory thank you for your help, I think this is a great idea. An email will be sent to each club director with a spreadsheet for parents/kids to sign. Every signature is important, whether they are 5 or 18, parent or coach!
(A perfect time to ask them to sign is when they sign up for a tournament!!)

I still have not heard from anyone opposing this, if you know of anyone please PM me or post it here.

Also, if you are a club coach/director that have kids on your team that attend or will attend a league middle school please pass the message on to them and their parents that their help is needed as well.

Thanks!

Bump

I have started to receive back the petitions from clubs, thank you very much. If you have not had a chance please try to do this in the next week as we would like to make sure the ADs get these in time for their meeting. The positive feedback continues to come in and I am hopeful this is the year a positive change takes place. It is my understanding that this decision is that of the ADs and with the help and support of Mr. Baldwin at Derby an email requesting that this issue be placed on their meeting agenda for later this month has gone out. In addition, a request has been made to KIAAA for their March meeting as well.


In hopes that we can offer solutions to possible conflicts please provide some insight if you are located in an area that has the early season. What are the start and end dates for wrestling & girls/boys basketball? Any other feedback is appreciated. Thanks


*****There will also be a petition availabe at the head table at the Derby Novice Championship. If attending please make an effort to come by and share your thoughts and sign!**********

I will also make one available at the at the Hutch tournament. It will be at one of the security check points so that the parent can also sign it.

The league meeting is fast approaching and while the support from the wrestling community has been overwhelming it is very important to reach out to your AD voicing your opinion in the next week!!

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