Kids That were Hurt by Wrestling Middle School

Going over the Middle School Duals I tallied up the number of wrestlers that I know wrestled Middle School Season and placed at Middle School State. Please add to the list as I am sure I did not get them all.

Gabe Buckbee 2nd Ark City
Darryl Rylant 2nd Clearwater/Young Guns
Devin Onwugbufor 4th Maize
Hunter Terrill 6th Ark City
Marcus Robinson 2nd Ark City
Aiden Campbell 4th Maize
Jacob Beeson 1st Ark City
Cameron Hughbanks 6th Maize
Dalton Collins 5th Ark City

Congratulations boys on a successful Middle School and Kids Club Season.

Adam Whitson 1st Team Lightning (Praire Hills)

Wyatt Hayes Scott city 4th
Curtis Near greater gold 4th
Dawson Ensign Goodland 6th
Chance Rodriguez Greater Gold 3rd
Nic Cheney Scott City 4th
Chris Cox Oakley 1 st

These boys all wrestled Middle School. Their season was done on December 7. Not sure they were hurt by wrestling Middle School.

Brent Beaumont 1st
Zach Strait 2nd
Blake Leiszler 5th

All wrestled for Concordia jr high

Hunter Williams 2nd Team Emporia

Wrestled on the Middle School team but our season ended in December as well.

Burlington Middle School season ending early December:

Brett Bober (7) 95 5th place
T.J. Lang (8) Hwt 6th place (1st yr. wrestler).

1st 4
2nd 5
3rd 1
4th 5
5th 3
6th 2

Not too shabby so far, I am sure there will be more added to the list.

Jalin Harper Team 1 115
Calvin Smith Team 3 189
Mikey Waggoner team 5 140
Hunter Christiansen Team 4 160
Tayvon Agnew Nash Team 4 125

All wrestled Middle School and were done By Dec.

Olathe Middle School season is early, done in December.

Jace Koelzer (8th) - Olathe South - Team 1
Jevon Parrish (8th) - Olathe South - Team 3
Anthony Gaona (8th) - STA - Team 3
Nick Jouret (8th) - East Kansas - Team 1

Drew Burgoon (7th) Team 5 90
Taylon Peters (7th) Team 5 135

Both wrestled for Lakewood Middle, which is a feeder school for Salina Central. Their season was finished in December as well.

Hugoton Middle School
Nick Mahan
Marcos Baeza

I wrestled for Phillipsburg Middle School

Braiden Lynn Greater Gold 6th
Dayton Porsch Hoxie 3rd
Tanner Johnson Greater Gold 5th
Joshua Seabolt Gray County 2nd

I have always thought that wrestling middle school/junior high, especially early in the year (end in December), was very beneficial to our wrestlers. I believe that we had four that went on to compete at the Middle School Nationals Duals Team Tournament in Iowa five years ago.

1st 9
2nd 6
3rd 5
4th 7
5th 7
6th 3

Updated....so far

There are 20 weights. 45% of the Champions wrestled Middle School, 38% of all finalists wrestled Middle School, and 31% of all medalists wrestled in Middle School.

The numbers are a little skewed because I am not counting 6th graders who placed. I do know there are at least two six grade wrestlers that placed in the top 3 and one was a champion.

Another factor that sways the numbers is I am not calculating those schools that do not offer Middle School wrestling. I know of at two finalists that fall into this category with one of them being a champion.

With the information given so far, I would hope this would encourage kids to join their middle school teams. It builds your teammate relationships, encourages school spirit and builds school/club relationships. Middle School wrestling does not slow wrestlers growth, it encourages wrestlers growth.

question. my son goes to a catholic school that doesnt offer middle school wrestling. does anyone know that if it would be possible to start a team using kids from the bishop carroll feeder middle schools. thats the only way we would have a chance to do middle school wrestling. any ideas or suggestions.

Chase Reynolds 3rd, Ridge Frieslinger 5th, Jake Patterson 2nd,all wrestled middle school

Jayson West 3rd, Maize South Middle School

We are now up to 40% of the finalists wrestled for their middle schools and 33% of all medalists.

I think we can safely say that wrestling for your Middle School does not erase all of the learning and skills that these young wrestlers have aquired.

I knew Jayson West wrestled for his middle school, sorry I missed him the first time.

My son, Jayson West placed 3rd after wrestling Middle School this year. I have to admit the Middle School competition at my son's weight class wasn't as experienced as he was used to but I don't think it hurt him at all. After wrestling for 7 years, 5 weeks wrestling Middle School isn't going to hurt you that much. The benefits outweigh any negatives in my opinion. He had a lot of fun wrestling with his Middle School Team this year.

Now what is the percentage that wrestled the early season to late season?

I truly don't think it has any affect on the early season kids but the late season kids I still think it takes them a little while to get back to the competition level they are used to.

With that being said that isn't a good excuse, kids should approach the MS season the same as a kids tourney.

I seen it in my son last year 12 straight 1st period pins in not getting you battle tested. We talked about it and he was able to come out and perform well in subs and MS state last year.

The early season MS has the opportunity to get that battle tested form back alot easier.

Taegan Schoenfeld - St. Marys - Team 2
Matt Cruishank - St. Marys - Team 3

Both Wrestled Middle School - Done in early December

Without throwing the school and coach under the bus, my only concern has been the atmosphere in the practice room. For several years the wrestlers that come from our middle school pick up bad work habits and sloppy execution of holds. Some get back to where they were before, but far to many never recover. I guess it falls to the kids on how they respond, but I would rather avoid that at this point and just go right into club wrestling. Otherwise, I would be all for middle school wrestling.

No matter late season or early, a club like offering at your school run by the HS coach (intramural like) or an actual MS program they need the best kids club wrestlers to join.

They need boys that know how to wrestle, can help others with moves, practice habits, work ethic, show how it should be done.

Some kids would never be exposed to wrestling without MS programs and our number one priority should be getting more boys involved in the sport.

We have lots of varsity boys in all classes that walked the halls until a HS coach found them, how good would they be if one of their buddies would have gotten them involved at MS level.

I feel this forum focuses on the elite a bunch...and well deserved. But wrestling rooms stink with one partner, numbers help and the good kids clubs and HS programs prove that year in and year out.

Have your kid in MS, 4-5 weeks helping others in the 7th grade isn't going to ruin your career...and you may just make a few new friends along the way. Isn't that what we washed up old folks remember in the end!

You make a pretty valid point here. Your middle school program needs to have a coach (and staff) that know what they are doing. You talk about a tough job, trying to make practice productive for all wrestlers when you have a combination of seasoned Kids' Club veterans and middle school kids who just decided to try the sport out for the first time. We were very fortunate to have a coach (and staff) that were able to do just that.

We must have been a 1%er. My son did not gain much at all from being on MS wrestling team. I felt he went backwards in terms of aggressiveness and interest. He had nobody to practice with and was never challenged at meets. Pinned everyone he wrestled in the first period and only had one opponent at league meet. The coaching was subpar and negative towards him. Which was to me the worst part as I initially believed that he should have the "Team Experience". Instead he was mistreated and ostracised by the coaching since his level was more than they could handle. Having a positive and motivated HS coach has helped alleviate that. Most of the team mates he had in MS did not go on to wrestle at HS, so no sense of team there. We would have prob been better off wrestling kids club and going to the bigger National Tournaments. The only positive was keeping his weight in check for Kids wrestling later.

I think you have to weigh the situation to see if MS wrestling is worth the time for your wrestler. If he/she is good then the MS wrestling program is prob not going to give your wrestler the challenge that they need. I'd say 80% of the wrestlers who are in MS wrestling are brand new at it and are just trying it out. Which consequently getting thumped those first few years usually drives them away completely. If it weren't for the strong Kids Club program here feeding the MS with talent and proven wrestlers, then they would not have much of a team at all.

I would have to say that we were hurt by MS program but we are prob the exception not the rule. If your gonna wrestle in this day and age it is better to have had a year or two of kids wrestling under your belt before going to MS or they are likely not going to wrestle much further than that.

Cole Bradford did not wrestle MS. Any time some coach tells hem to go softer,all the time it cant be good.Cole would have been in the late season.If it would have been in the early season,cole would have went no matter what.The hole state should be on the same dates.

The school that cole is at dose not want help.I tried to donate time.They said no. I put a clinic together with some very good guys to help out. They said no. I'm I the best NO not even par. But I can see when kids need help.Wrestling is not one one the programs this school wants to put time in to.

I say each kid has to look at what is there and choose wisely.

Here is one thing I would bet cash on. There in no kids on any of the teams that did not do club.I have not looked,But would bet against it.

Charles Bradford

Trace Walters (8th) 6th 125 Northeast Knights (Riverside JH)

I would like to see the numbers on late season and early season placers. My guess would be that early season kids placers are higher than late season kids.

I have seen MS kids who have wrestled the late season and come back to kids worst physical shape and mental shape. I know some of this depends on the kids. If you give a MS age kid the chance to play games or wrestle. I pretty sure they would play games. I watched MS duals the last couple of years trying to decide if MS would be good for my son or not. MS looks like at novice tournament with a hand full of experienced kids. The experienced kids dominate. No real battles. Nothing to challenge them. It is still up in the air if my son will wrestle MS. I want him to understand the team part but I pretty sure he can get that during football season.


Josh Parker

Formula for Middle School Programs' Success:

Early Season + Qualified Coaches + Lots of Practice + Good Practice Partners + Strong Fan Base = Success

Red you have it there.

Joey Hancock 7th grade 6th place Xavier MS (LV)
Anthony Gould 7th grade 4th place Leavenworth

Both seasons ended early December

I agree with you Lee. That goes on to build strong high school programs. Until the State of Kansas gets the whole state on the same page as far as Jr. sports(same seasons for everyone). We are going to continue to have this thread every year. Early season is best. If early season was offered at our Jr. High my son would wrestle Jr. season. Late season hurts the wrestlers. Unless you have a coach/school who wants wrestling and wrestlers to move on to the next level. Then late season may work out.

Look at the Topeka paper today. Sport page every article is about NCAA tournament. Not the one in OKC either. Several hometown kids wrestling in OKC. Pretty sad.

Josh Parker

UPDATE:

unless I missed something....here's the tally so far:

1st = 9
2nd = 8
3rd = 8
4th = 8
5th = 8
6th = 5

We are getting close to 50%.

I found out about a couple of more today at Districts.

Brandon Becker Derby 115 2nd

Luke(Gunner) Gentzler Andover Central 110 1st

1st = 10 50%
2nd = 9 45%
3rd = 8 40%
4th = 8 40%
5th = 8 40%
6th = 5 25%

Over all Total = 40%

Conner Ward - 1st place Monticello Trails
Jarrett Bendure - 4th place Monticello Trails
Hayden Keopke - 4th place Monticello Trails
Tate Steele - 2nd place - Lawrence West
Gad Huseman - 3rd place - Tonganoxie

Raiden Kohman 6th Pratt

Valid and true points have been made for both sides. I am a MS wrestling coach and you are all correct. One solution that would help both sides would be to allow wrestlers to do both at the same time. Currently our middle school season wrestles ZERO Saturdays. This was done to possibly get some MAYB bball kids to try wrestling in middle school. They could still go to their tournaments on the weekends. We still get very few if none of those kids, but it is an option for them. Why shouldn't a kid be able to wrestle a MS tourney on Friday and go to a kids tournament on Saturday. Best of both worlds. We have some of our MS wrestlers enter in Kids tournaments while they are out for MS basketball.

bump...I guess this is a good enough suggestion no one has a counter point to argue?

Who would the kids get to practice with? The middle school team or club team? Champions are build in the practice room.

Josh Parker

They would have to practice with the Middle School Team. They are not allowed to practice with the club team during Middle School Season.

I have argued this point for some time now. This would be the best of both worlds. They get that middle school team exposure and experience. Practice would be with their middle school team. If they do not have a conflicting middle school event on the weekend they could wrestle with the kids club.

I do not think that there are many of us club directors that want the kids to not do middle school wrestling but I have seen so many times with open weights at duals during the week that a kid gets 1 match that whole week. If they are looking for more actual mat time then they should be afforded that opportunity.

If something like this passed (letting middle school wrestle both kids and MS). Tell me who gets hurt by it? I think there would be some stick points. MS schedule would obviously take precedence.

Keep dreaming the KSHAAA will never release their icy claw of death on this. MS will continue to be really bad for good wrestlers and a let down to new wrestlers. It's almost not even worth discussing unless we get all schools on same schedule and have a true middle school state series.

What happens to the wrestler if they did both Jr. high and club wrestling at the same time?

I don't understand why it is a big deal to do both? I know it is a rule with KSHAAA (unless you are a swimmer then its ok). Does the wrestling community need to get someone from the state house elected to get this rule changed? That is how swimming got changed. You can swim for club and KSHAAA in high school at the same time. Something to bring up at district meetings and state meetings.

Being able to do both would only help wrestling.

Josh Parker

I have been told by KSHSAA board members...That if something is proposed through the proper channels to the board it has to go through the correct procedures of considering the proposal as well as voting on it. Take 4A division in football...many outsiders thought it didn't have a chance at passing...next thing you know we have 4A div 1 & 2. I guess someone needs to propose it to KSHAA.

5th Place - Wyatt Hendrickson - Kansas Young Guns
4th Place - Cyle Gautschi - Hillsboro Wrestling Club

both wrestled middle school.

NEW TOTALS

1ST 11 55%
2ND 10 50%
3RD 9 45%
4TH 11 55%
5TH 9 45%
6TH 6 30%

TOTAL OF 56 WRESTLERS OUT OF 120 PLACERS 46.6%
SUBTRACTING 6TH PLACE PUTS THEM AT A DEAD EVEN 50%

Now how many of them are the early season and/or late season?

Looks like about 40% wrestled late in the season. I don't think this really matters. I think the three biggest things is 1) Get a decent Middle School Coach. (Someone who cares and tries) 2) Have ALL of the kids in your club go out for Middle School. This way the kids will have good practice partners. 3) Daddy's, it's ok to lose control for 2 months and let someone else be in the corner, and work with your wrestler. It's not about the daddy's, it's about the Wrestler, the Team, and the School.

Beeson I did a rough count on the kids. Looks like 37 in early,14 in late and 8 I will have to look up.I will agree with you it is not about dads. It is about quality mat time.For some kids MS is great,some kids it hurts.There my kid gose to school ,we are right on the line for early and late. His school is the late.Looking at it there is no way with the coaching/number of matches,that my son would have gotten better in ms.If we where in your neck of the woods,it would have been difrant.I do not think it hurt most of the kids in MS.But eating dirt dosnt hurt you ether.It is the same way,eating the right dirt will help.Lots of trace minerals,if you are in the right part of the state.
I still think it would help to have all of the MS kids on the same dates.

Charles Bradford

I have a MS kid that it definitely hurt.
Saying that I am putting a disclaimer on this that I don’t agree with what happen just truly that it did happen. So as we argue one side this truly is the reality of the other side at times.

8th grade bought into the MS wrestling, he had wrestled some before that when he was little and was decent, and I think made it to State once top of 8 I think. For whatever reason that was the last year he did kids disappeared until his 7th grade year.

He goes out and head locks, snakes, and cow catcher everyone to I think only a couple of losses in MS and wins his league tournament both years. Again this is a coaching issue letting him do it but for those of you that say there are good MS matches I think there are 3 or 4 to 1 that they are looking for the headlock or the 2 other crap moves.
I do what I do every year go to the MS go to the HS and talk up coming out after their season is over.
This time unlike his 7th grade year he bought in.

His subs were a lot different that he thought and didn’t make it out of the first period. The kid, the father and family were shell shocked to say the least. He happened to be in a RR so he was still in for Districts. I talked to him afterwards letting him know that these kids were pretty tough and still thought he could make it out of Districts.
He didn’t come to practice on Monday so I called his Dad to see if anything was wrong.
His Dad stated (this is where the disclaimer comes in) they were totally surprised at the skill level and the intensity that he had faced in subs. His Dad told me that he has tried to talk him into going to Districts and the kid just won’t do it. The Dad also told me that (because he is an 8th grader and I tried to still keep him interested for HS) that he is completely done with wrestling.

He went on to say they remember it being tough but not like what they experienced in Subs. The kid doesn’t feel like he could ever catch up to that level (disclaimer again).

I also think it is a Dad ego thing, which as we all know can be far worse than a kid losing.
Like I said I don’t agree with a large portion of what I stated above.

What I do know is that MS wrestling gave this kid/family false hope. They thought they were better and competitive and found out harshly they were wrong.

So MS not only hurt this kid but it drove him from the sport. Would he have made it once in high school who knows? Maybe he will still change his mind and wrestle next year.

Again don’t forget the disclaimer, but facts are facts.

Tracy,

I know of a wrestler with a somewhat similar story. He was pretty successful early on in Kids mainly due to a headlock that was encouraged by his parents. Then the family had some issues and the wrestler disappeared from the sport until Junior High. The big difference is that the competition he faced had quite a few wrestlers who had wrestled from early on all the way up to that point. He didn't have near the success against those wrestlers and yes, he did win matches against those wrestlers who didn't have all those years of experience in the Kids' circuit, mainly by headlock.

This wrestler did wrestle his freshman year in High School and by his junior year had learned many more ways to be competitive including a nasty leg ride with various combinations that could earn him back points. I would have to give credit to his personal courage to stick it out through the tough times and to his High School coaches for teaching him how to be a wrestler, not just a head locker.