Possibility for Next Year!

We would like combine the Elementary and Middle School State tournaments next year. I would like to hear from the masses...

What do you mean by elementary state?

The Elementary State Qualifying tournament for the Elementary Duals. Also referred to as Elementary State.

So the 6th graders will have to pick between one or the other?

Sounds good to me.

Same day? Same Location?
Seems from most forum posts we have done a good job running the Middle School State tourney at Smoky Valley?

Salina in the Bi Center or Hutchinson in the Salt Hawk Dome on the Sunday after Subs.

6th graders have to pick. They cannot wrestle for both dual teams as the events are on the same weekend.

What would be the most matches these guys wrestle 2 days in a row? 12-15 matches subs and the whatever level tournament? Then when they do the duals another 12-15 matches? 24-30 matches on 2 weekends - I think that is a lot.

What is a good number (high, low, average number) of competitive matches for elementary and middle school guys to wrestle in a year? I do not know - I am asking for opinions.

I like the idea of combining and I would vote for the Hutchinson arena. I would volunteer to help coordinate if held in Hutchinson.

For my vote run them together. The atmosphere this weekend at MS was great. Having them together could only increase that.

Number of matches in a weekend: That depends on bracket size for sure with Subs and qualifying. The MS boys are doing it already 3-4 Sat up to 6 on Sunday at MS. The sub brackets are smaller for the older guys but MS had some very good numbers. The younger/smaller guys at Subs and Elementary could be in for maybe 6 each day with larger than 16 man brackets both days.

The actual duals are 8 matches in total over 2 days.

Just from memory for our club numbers our higher level guys go into subs with 40 matches +/- not counting preseason so from December 15 to subs. Average guys 20ish.

Smokey,

I know my boys have wrestled as many as 200 total matches in a year. The summer duals used to be 15 plus matches in four days and this was the top competition in the country. I think we have to let parents and/or club coaches decide that. There are VERY few brackets that will give you 8 matches in a day.

The BI-CEN in Salina gets nothing but bad reviews over and over. I don't understand why we keep giving them our business. Hutchinson is a longer drive for me but I would rather go there than BI-CEN.

I would like to see these two tournaments put together. As far as where it does not matter. Will have to drive somewhere.

Josh Parker

Will,

Just a quick question. What was wrong with the 6U and elementary dual on the same day/same place tournament. I thought it went alright.

I am sure you have your reasons.

Steve Schroeder.

I haven't attended Elementary State but my guess as to a reason the MS State was so fun and ran so well was because it was just that...Middle School only...Smoky Valley was a good venue and the personnel ran the tournament very well...to actually have my son comment on how much he enjoyed the tournament was a big deal...combining it and moving to a bigger venue doesn't seem appealing because the big venues don't allow you to bring in your own "healthy" foods and charge and arm and a leg for the crap food they do offer...BIGGER is NOT always BETTER!! Just my two cents...not that it is even worth that!!

I say we keep them separate. Smoky Valley does a great job. I am completely against using the Bicentennial Center for anything else. I like having my son be able to come to the bleachers and get his HEALTHY INEXPENSIVE food and drink when he is done with a match. I realize you can just walk to the parking lot and eat. But he has to take off his wrestling shoes and go, then come back and get them back on and as the matches get closer together, that isn't feasible.

Having the Middle School State @ the Bi-centennial Center is like Obamacare-----
What do you really get out of Salina? Why would 6 & u State, Elementary Dual team & Middle School state be in the same venue?

Smoky Valley is centrally located, their wrestling family CATERS to the healthy eating habits of wrestlers! How can you derive 5 good pros & cons in changing this up?

Let the elementary kids have their big tournament and the middle school kids have theirs...it gives them something to look forward to!! I can attest to that since I have a middle schooler and an elementary kid that wrestle at all the same tournaments...sometimes I have to impose and ask to skip a match cause both kids wrestle at the same time!! I absolutely love being able to dedicate myself to one or the other and make that tournament all about that particular child!! No shadows to stand in that way...change CAN be good but not always!!

I don't like the idea of mixing Elementary and 6U... In fact, I either want 6U to join the USAWKS series or be stand alone.

The Elem and MS state are BOTH set up to establish the dual teams for the dual team nationals. The closer we get to the dual team event the more likely we will NOT have weight control issues.

I hear everyone and I echo everyone's thoughts on arena issues. The sad thing is that we have just a handful of arenas in KS where we can put 8, 10, or 12 mats on the floor.

Reasons for putting Elem and MS together:

All wresting in ONE room.
Full size mats for all.
Good officiating crews.
Table workers & clocks.
Efficiency of sign up for the national Dual events.
Labor availability.
Economies of scale. (remember, the profit goes towards lowering the costs of the National Dual events)

I am working on making the Bi Center more user friendly for wrestling. We need to meet with Building mgmt., Chamber or Commerce, Tourism Board, KSHSAA, and Salina Kids together to get some leverage. These events put people in the hotels and restaurants. If we all work together I think the common goal can be obtained.

We have to use Sundays (avoid conflicts and arenas are at a lower cost) and MS has to wait until after KSHSAA MS seasons have completed. I would like to keep it in the middle of the state to make it geographically accessible to ALL Kansas kids.

I really have to agree with ....D.K. on this one.
Why so hung up on Salina?
? ability to work Trackwrestling!
The "BI" is not WRESTLER FRIENDLY.
Gestapo tactically trained to search & seize little Billy's Halo orange & banana & beef jerky.
Do we "have to" B & B in Salina?
The seats have crusty ren & stempy boogers all over.
I'm sure the cost of renting the bi is far more than Lindsborg when referred to economies of scale. (Gas is pretty competitive in Lindsborg) and the town's hx. & very unique!

Other than "refs" what has been said negativelly in regards to Smoky Valley? But we do need to give the refs opportunity to grow.
The Elementary Dual team are the "big guns" on their grand stage & the Middle School as well --- it's fine friendly competitive dynamics.

As for the 6 y.o.'s State if USA WRESTLING does not identify the age group it's kin to a sideshow. Why the big sneeze to 6 u STATE CHAMPION? (Curious as to the % that participates that have USA cards).....it's developmental at the young age of 6 & of course throughout the career.

My $0.02