Carpetbaggers

How many of you are in favor of allowing Oklahoma kids in our State Series?

How many of you are in favor of allowing Missouri kids in our State Series?

How many of you are in favor of allowing Colorado kids in our State Series?

How many of you are in favor of allowing Nebraska Kids in our State Series?

For those of you that are against this I have one more question.

Why are we allowing kids that are in one district to wrestle for clubs in another district?

This needs to be changed. Allowing kids to jump district lines to wrestle for a club in another district is ridiculous. Everyone always says that the main goal of Kansas Wrestling is to provide opportunity for kids. When you allow kids from one district to participate in another district qualifier they are taking opportunity away from the kids in the district that live there.

This needs to be addressed this year and fixed.

I agree with your points but the answer may not be as easy as it may seem. Some points to consider:

How would your assigned district as a participant be defined?

Is it based on where you live? Should it be the same as how we define teams w/in a district? If so what if you want to change teams? This last one is the crux of the issue.

Maybe you have to be with your "team" for a certain period of time to be allowed in District X qualifier? We could see about getting the assigned district added & validity date to the label for our USA cards. To change that assignment we'd have to have a process for updating that and have a date associated with it on the card so it's easy to validate.

You have valid points which warrants further discussion.

What if they don't have any kids similar to your child's size and weight in the club? What if the club in your district has vastly different ideas than yours on what should be taught to the wrestlers? What if you can't get along with the coach that is near you? There are hundreds of reasons why you should be allowed to travel to another district, join the club and wrestle.

We have been with the same club, which is not in our district, for 3 years. We love the coaching, the club and the kids in the room. There is no reason why we should tell people they aren't allowed to travel to another another district and join a club if they want to. This is America!!! Freedom of choice!!!! You can go to a different school if you want to. Why not a different wrestling club?

Your last point says that wrestling is to provide opportunity for kids....How is telling them that they can only wrestle for clubs in their district increasing their opportunities? It is limiting them.

Mary

The districts are supposed to be divided by numbers, which needs to be adjusted but that is another subject. If you think that your district is too tough and your child will not qualify for state then you go to another district. Now one District has more kids in it but less competition. The kids that could be going on to state in their home district are now not moving on because kids from other districts are saturating the District.

Mary, their are kids in Oklahoma, Missouri, Nebraska and Colorado that would love to come to Kansas and compete. Are you for that as well? They will come up with "hundreds of reasons why you should be allowed to travel to another state, join the club and wrestle." Still doesn't make it right.

These super clubs that have kids wrestling for them that are 3 and 4 hours away do not have the kids best interest at heart. They are hiring guns, recruiting, or whatever you want to call it so that they can get a trophy. It has nothing to do with the kids.

What super clubs are you talking about. I know that east Kansas is not what it used to be.

Is this going to disallow wrestlers to attend practices with teams such as Purler in MO? Are we talking about not allowing kids that practice with teams outside of the state to wrestle in KS if they live in KS? What if one parent lives in MO/NE/OK and one in KS? What if the closest team to your home is across the state line? There are many factors that play into where a wrestler practices at...in the end though I feel the place of residence should be used to determine which district they wrestle in...its a youth sport folks...let them step on the mat where they are and try to move on...I am just as irritated as the next guy that some districts can't even fill a bracket but that's geography folks...

This sport is supposed to help build discipline and teach sportsmanship...I don't have a problem practicing with other clubs but when the postseason begins then I feel wrestlers should stay in their districts...

Here's another question for ya...why does Kansas require wrestlers to belong to a club for the postseason...they can wrestle independent all year long but when subs comes along they are required to declare a club?

But what if my kid wrestles for Team A and all their kids eat boogers at practice and my kid doesn't eat boogers so he wants to wrestle for Team B since they are booger free. Now I've got a dilemma on my hands.

Beeson, you had me interested after doing some looking. I found a kid that wrestled under 3 different clubs this year. One being out of state plus wrestling unattached at one tournament. Now for subs he is in a different district. Makes me wonder. Stay in your district or your state. Two years ago that is what we told the boys from Oklahoma that wrestled for Hugoton.

Team B just sharts.
Team A -- Boogers
Team B --Farts & Sharts
Choices, choices!

I could give a shart and two boogers of a care less where you practice, who you practice with, or where you go to make yourselves better.

What I do care about is clubs recruiting kids from 2 or three hours away to wrestle for their team so they can win a Kids State Championship Team trophy. If the kid is in your room every practice and drives two hours both ways every night have fun. But if he has only practiced once all year and lives in another district, NO WAY! It all has to do with doing what is right. Be ethical in the decisions that are made concerning your clubs. That is all I am asking.

What about starting a club in one town and using the address of someone you know 2 hours away so that you can wrestle in that district. I've heard of that happening too. And that's without eating boogers.

You speak with Integrity which should be a cornerstone of all kids club coach's and parents!

Several years ago when we started our club I was ask which district we were going to wrestle in. I lived in D3 but we practiced in D2. I told everyone involved that we practiced in this district, we will wrestle qualifiers in this district which at the time was the toughest in the state. I don't know about now but it was then. But then again it was kind of a given that you should use integrity which I think is getting harder to find. I have actually seen clubs that didn't want to weigh their own kids in for the home tournament. Mysteriously when this was going on several kids who had parents in positions of power dropped 2 weight classes. You would like to think that people would be honest but in all reality in today's society that some people will if given the chance cheat. Whether it's on what district they qualify in, weighing in, whether their kid is really novice, whatever it is some people will cheat. It has become an all about my kid society.

Oh and I forgot. BOOGERS

.

No, I don't believe kids from out of state should be able to come to Kansas and compete in our state tournament. I also don't think you should switch clubs right before the Sub District tournament. I did not realize people did that. I do believe that at the start of the wrestling season, you should be able to join whichever club you see fit. I suppose, at the end of the season, you could make the kid go to the Sub District tournament where they have their residence and find some other coach to coach them if you think that would be more "fair".

Mary

oh i just sharted in my pants. ate some boogers and still dont know what all the crying is all about. let get ready to rumble. let the kids have the best time of their lives. some parents just need to drink a beer and sit in the stands and shut the hell up.

That is the wrong attitude. Crying? Drinking beer in the stands? You may be part of the problem. Aren't you the guy that was bragging about his club only taking 20 kids so they could get 2 on 1 coaching? Now you have over 100 kids in your club and several from other districts. Five years ago everyone was complaining about East Kansas, you have now become that club.

I say these are all kids who love to wrestle. To each his own. We all make choices for our kids based on what WE feel is right! If one does not like a certain club then .....don't wrestle for them. This is March madness time for wrestlers so let's just wrestle! Good luck to all the kids wrestling their heart outs for who ever where ever! Stop the drama! It is called kansas kids wrestling because it is about the kids! When we loose sight of this wrestling suffers!

America was built on the idea of free choice. Why should I be limited on where my kid wrestles based upon where my house is. Everyone (except that guy from Manhattan) defends St James when they are accused of recruiting. Also, I believe Ark City has had some really nice 'move in's'. SO What. If the concept is ok for High School, what is the big deal with Kids Club???? Wrestling is based upon beating the kid in front of you, no matter where they came from or for that matter what sex they are. In other words, I do not care if the kid is from California, if they attend practice with a Kansas club, go to Kansas tourneys, and have a Kansas card, they should be able to wrestle in our state series. Using a State, County, or district boundary to win a match, is just not what wrestling is about.

You know, and someone correct me if I am wrong, but Drew Daniels lived in Kansas, but attended Rockhurst HS. He wrestled in the MO High School State series and kids series. But, he once wrestled in Kansas for Freestyle/Greco. Missouri parents never complained about it...please do not tell me we cry more then the Missouri people.

And, I do not drink beer in the stands, I prefer to go to the car and drink out of the cooler in the trunk...and if you ever saw my son wrestle, you would understand why I drink....

Chad, you have too many good comments on here to get into trying to create new rules that limit a parent's freedom.

As for the home school thing....we homeschooled a couple years ago for a semester due to a move and in order to re-enroll in a public school we just had to test in order to determine what grade we were in. You also have to factor in whether or not the accepting school will take the credits you have received in the homeschool. So it really depends on several factors whether this kid in question would be a freshmen or a sophmore next year. I don't think it is sketchy at all....it sounds like personal business with this kid. I know it is a very messy process to count credits, etc. If he does indeed have to repeat his freshman year so what. Are we going to go through and check to see how many other kids are passing or failing? Are we going to require grade card checks? I know there are lots of kids that end up having to repeat a grade. We are crossing the line here, I believe. The kid is a homeschooled freshman wrestling high school division...Where is the problem?

People who live on the border of one district, and wrestle for a club in the neighboring district is one thing, but at the end of a season signing up with a club that's 3-4 hours away is completely different. If your signed up with a club, you should be practicing with that club weekly. Our current State tournamnt rotates yearly on which district wrestles which. If we don't put a stop to this, dads will jump ship and switch to a different district just so their kid won't be on the same side of the bracket as wrestler "X".

I don't think he's talking about limiting a parents freedom at all. I think you all miss the points he's trying to make because in one way or another you feel like he's talking about you. I agree 100% with Chad, if you have practiced all year with a club and made the sacrifices to drive there and be a part of that team and they have made you better in some way then by all means sign up and wrestle the state series with them. When you have been recruited in the week before subs to join the team, well now your just a bunch of glory hound wannabees. So go on and recruit your state title cause the only people that talk about how good of a coaching staff you got a how great your team is, is you. Everyone else is talking about how great you can recruit.

Mike Pirl

Who won the team title 5 yrs ago. Who cares about it. 62 kids from one club going to state compare to smaller schools that have 12 not really Apples to apples. I believe the next closest is 38. Drop the team title.

I am more concerned about the numbers at the small towns around that big club.

Thank you Jerry!!! Kids club team titles are important to the team that's wins it. I have no idea who won 5 years ago and neither does 99% of folks reading this without looking it up. If you are so desperate for such an obscure title. Well,
go for it I guess. Recruit on! Pretty pathetic from where I'm standing though.

I hate to be the one to bring this up but every high school wrestler in the state signed up with a kids club in the last few weeks in order to wrestle kids and none of them practiced with that club all year...unless they broke the KSHSAA rules. Also this kid in question is potentially moving to district 2. And as a side note, every kid in 100 lbs high school division moves on to state, there were 2 other kids in D1 and 2 kids in D2. If you want to argue about the fact that it messes up seeding in the state bracket then I guess you don't believe as I do. "you have to beat everyone in the bracket to be a champ, period." I am sure this club did not accept this kid for team points, heck they would have qualified 61 without him!!! They are a great club with great coaches, great kids, and great families! They simply are giving a high schooler a chance to wrestle in the qualifying tournaments and helping Kansas Kids wrestling grow!! Not recruiting for a state title but helping develop Kansas wrestling into a Powerhouse, which is what we all should be promoting!!!!

IF, the HS'r goes to the school/lives in the same town/district -- the kids club uses the HS's mat & @ the end of HS season desires to wrestle Kids HS STATE on the same mats but yet NOT the same HS HEAD coach I am confused as to what the $300.00 HS option from USA Wrestling was to do for the HS wrestlers?

(Yes, this is a "run-on" sentence that should be edited).

I am "potentially" getting a sex change. How many of you actually believe that? Probably the same number that believes this kid is actually moving to District 2.

I believe you Beeson, for as much ragging you have been doing on this forum it would only make sense.

Kids wrestling is for the kids, not the coaches! Team points mean little at kids state! Numbers game, how is it fair? one team has 100 kids, one has 30! Yes lots of clubs stand out and congrats to those clubs.

Greg, I agree with you, Chad and Mike on this matter. I don't see any issue with wrestling with a club that you started with and ended with even if you live in another district. You need to be practicing with that club throughout the year and competing for their team in tournaments; that is how you become a part of their team and deserve to wrestle for them in the State Championship Series. Now if you had to move at the end of the season and wrestling with your club became a hardship due to distance, that would be another thing. I don't see that this is the case here.

Beeson,
If you really were genuine in trying to fix the perceived issues with kids wrestling you would not have called out a minor by name or another club on this talk forum.

Start a new thread and start campaigning about how you are going to make this a better organization for all and convince me. Just maybe, I'll change my opinion of you.

I'm sure if you work hard enough all of our problems will be solved.

What's the bylaws say? Bahahaha....The million dollar question right there. At least that is what its gonna cost in attorney fees to set those things straight!!!

District 5 boys!!!!

It appears this thread and The High School Division are the same, a group of people 'crying' about some kid that changed clubs and in effect, changed districts right before the state serious. I cannot believe this kid has been called out by name and virtually no one is having a fit. Just a few weeks ago somebody asked on here what happened to a certain kid and he got pounced on.

Go ahead and pass a rule against this...as Lee said, you must start with the club and practice with it so you can deserve to wrestle in the state series. Really, I think a 4 time High School state champ practiced for Team Central and then wrestled at least one year for Mat Side (Will's club) in the State series. Doubt if he wrestled for Mat Side at many tourneys thru the year. I think this is just fine. But,your rule would of precluded him from wrestling in the Kansas State Series. Is that what you want.

If you start passing rules where does it stop. Title IV had good intentions, but the end result was devastating for college wrestling. There are always unintended consequences. Better draw you rule up right.

And, Mike, I do not think Beeson is talking about me. I have 1 son that now wrestles in college and we never switched districts. But, we did not always wrestle for the club closest to us and neither does my grandson. They have, and will, wrestle for the club(s) which I think is the best fit for them, and that includes going out of state sometimes. Fortunately, the decision of what club to wrestle for is not based on some rule.

You know this is really a terrible, petty topic, when Will does not even chime in. Will always has an opinion. LOL

John, I believe as I stated that if you practice with the club all year then by all means you should wrestle the state series with them. The rule if made should be based upon that in some way. Integrity would play a role as with any rule. As for the high school kids signing up for clubs it should be wherever they are going to continue practicing the majority of the time.
I firmly believe in going to multiple clubs and multiple coaches but I also believe in having some integrity and loyalty to those who you practice with most.

Mike Pirl

Mike, I personally agree, but you got to be careful when you add new rules. To handle one overzealous set of parents you could end up hurting other parents who really are trying to do the right thing. Anyway, it sounds like the real issue is the moving up an age group. From what I just heard, it sounds like this complaint could have some merit. John.

Beeson is correct.

I think in addition that a good way to ask yourself if you have a "club" or something other than that, Does every kid in your "club" know the name of every other kid in the "club"? or at LEAST recognize him (or her) as a teammate?

I also think that if your "club" is headquartered more than 25 miles from where you live and you DON'T live in Western Kansas, you might be talkin bout a bagger.

For the record, I am friends with James Turner and Mason will be a great addition to any club.

We live over 40 miles from our club. We drive there 3 times a week are NEVER late,always one of the last to leave.Been there over 3 year. We go there because we as a family do not fit in most clubs. People have treated my son like crap. Said he would never be s good wrestler.I could go on and on. Every week at every tournament I have people ask where the club we are in practices.Most of them state they like how we treat the kids.If I ask them why they do not like the club they are in,the norm is, That there kids are over looked where they are at.The club my son is in NO one is ever over looked.

Now if you would like to call my son or little girl A bagger. I will be at the state tournament this next weekend. I will have the same black cowboy hat I wear every weekend. Fill free to ask me to step out side and discuss it with you.

BTW we where not recruited in any way.I talked to them,I watched there kids wrestle,liked what I saw and talked to them.At the time of the move we where A 50/50 wrestler at best.My girl was no way encouraged to step on the mat till we joined the club we are in now.I thank they all the time for letting us join.The club as a hole in family.



Charles Bradford

I for one don't care what club you wrestle for. My question is how this young man went from an 8th grader in November to a Freshman now? Seems to me something is not right. Which ever club he is wrestling for now needs to be aware this situation will reflect on them also. It may bring into question everything you have done or will do. If the rules were not followed where this young man was concerned what other rules do you not follow? I am not saying that they don't follow the rules but if it comes out that the rules were broken it may lead some people to believe that is how this club works. The rules aren't for them and their wrestlers. So my question for that club is which is it 8 th grader or freshman? Which tournament did he wrestler illegal in the ones back in November or the ones now?

Jule,

Until you step in our practice room and know how we operate or get to know our coaches. Do not question our ethics. Our team had no prior knowledge of any wrong doing by this young man, he asked to wrestle with us and we accepted. We will not turn down a wrestler that wants to get better. Questions were raised on his eligibility and I presented this to the parents. They have since then provided the necessary paperwork to the ones questioning his grade status. Now let’s move on and quit the petty bickering so this young wrestler can enjoy his time on the mat.

For the record, I am not bashing the Kansas Young Guns. I spoke with their Head Coach and he was genuinely trying to help a kid wrestle. I have no problem with that, and applaud it. The problems I have are with a kid wrestling as an 8th grader when it benefits them and then stating they are in 9th grade to benefit them another way. I also do not think we should be jumping District lines for qualifying tournaments.

Just to make this clear I was not questioning any clubs ethics. My post would have been the same no matter what club. With every family comes baggage good or bad. We have to make sure that baggage doesn't cause trouble for all. We have to be thoughtful of not just one wrestler but the needs of all and not let one bring down the all.

I grew up in Ohio, and wrestling is huge there. Wrestling only takes a backseat to football in Ohio as far as all sports go. The one thing I loved about it was that every kids club was a feeder club for a certain high school. They didn't let kids come join their club if they believed he would be wrestling some day for another high school. And when that did happen things got very bitter. Even the private high schools who did recruit, had there own feeder programs. Kids grew up together in those wrestling rooms and continued that all the way through high school. Of course people actually do move and that is something you can not control. Personally I believe that is the way it should be. A lot of schools don't have wrestling or clubs to attend in their area so you have to do what you have to do. The super clubs where half the kids don't even know the other kids on their team is silly to me. Just a personal opinion. Super clubs were only summer time clubs for freestyle and Greco where all the best kids came together because they were the only ones dedicated during the summer. Taking as many kids you can to win a kids state title because you out number everyone else 2 to 1, 3 to 1, 4 to 1 really isn't a title at all any way. When your high school wins a team title with the boys you fed into the program, who are all great students and upstanding kids in the community then you really accomplished something as a coach. Only a personal opinion and I know others won't agree, so please do not bash to each their own.

There is two ways to look at it.One is your way.If you are stuck with a sucky club run by a dictator,live with it.The 2nd is if you would like to get better and branch out find a club you fit in and get good.As a family we wanted to get better.

It is just fact. If a club sucks they will loose kids every year till they change things. If a club is good they will get bigger every year till they change things.I know every one knows a club that was good and now is not. Dew to what ever reasons.

John,

I like what you posted. There will be times that things don't start out that way but hopefully shake out well by time a high school team comes together.

When my son started at the age of 6 there was one club in town. By the time the next season rolled around that club had fractured into three clubs. We stayed with the original club, a club that I had been a volunteer coach for three years while I was attending college. It pretty much stayed a Novice caliber club the next two years, continued to go downhill and the best partners my son had to wrestle with quit. We made a choice to wrestle for another club that was 30 minutes away because they had eight or nine good to very good wrestlers that were near my son's age and weight.

After practicing and wrestling tournaments for this club for 5 years (including a year I was deployed and my wife had to take our 5 and almost 1 year old along to practices), Junior High started. Garrett's team in Junior High wrestled for four Kids' clubs in the area, along with your traditional wrestlers that just picked the sport up in Junior High. They came together and were city champions both years. We had to make a very tough choice to join a local club that many of his Junior High teammates joined after the 7th grade season because we knew that these were the guys that he would be teammates with through High School. They stayed together through thick and thin and during his High School career finished in the top 10 all four years including a 3rd place finish at State his sophomore year (the best finish an LHS team ever had).

To this day, we are grateful that we had the opportunity to wrestle those five years with a great club. The team that came together from those four Kids' programs were blood brothers on and for the most part off the mat. Sometimes things happen for a reason and in the end turn out very well.