The Untouchables or The Truely Dominant Wrestlers

Aside from Romero Cotton (from Hutchinson), are there any other Kansas wrestlers who are legitimately and realistically expected to breeze through their competition at state in their quest for a championship? (i.e. meaning any defeat would tantamount to the defeat the biblical giant Goliath suffered at the hands of David)

Would Kyle Detmer be considered in that elite category?

Kyle Detmer

How about Aldon Isenberg?

Any other undefeated wrestlers? I think these guys are...

Bach - LB
Randall - PV
Maple - WH
Baker - SME
Ribelin - RV
Beard - GD
Napier - CO
Isenberg - GE
Cotton - HT
Detmer - BC
Keller - BC
Keller - BC
Ornellas - CH
Elliott - AC
Disney - SH

I think sharky slyter lost this year to callahan..

Sharky is 1-2 against Callahan. All three matches were really close (2-6, 3-4, and 5-4). Callahan's only loss is to Slyter so far this year.

Joe Bach is a definite candidate. No one in 5A will touch him at 215. I saw him pin a couple of opponents using only one arm. He is a beast!! By the way, I just watched, I didn't video tape or record his dominance!

Cokeley:

"If" ... my aunt had different anatomy, she'd be my uncle ... with that disclaimer out of the way, I'll nonetheless pose the question: "IF" ... Romero Cotton were to wrestle Joe Bach (or for that matter, Racette or Kober) how do you think that match would turn out?

Romero!

24/7

Kyle Detmer is definitely included in this elite category

How far would Detmer need to bump up before he would face some real competition (i.e. 160 lbs, 171 lbs, etc...)

Fisher, Tapia, Flynn and Watson are real competition. He'll face plenty of competition in OKC at the Junior Duals!

Chief:

It's not that I'm dismissive of the "competition" that you mention. I'm seen each young man (mentioned by you) wrestle and am convinced that they are all steller wrestlers. (I should also note that Fisher was pinned in the 1st period by Detmer and, for some reason, forfeited his next opportunity to redeem himself)But in any of these potential match-ups, I would venture a guess that Detmer is the odds-on favorite to win ... decisevely. Little intrigue or mystery would likely surround the outcome. That is the point ... An argument can fairly be made that Detmer has, too date, sufficiently distanced or separated himself from the pack. As has Romero Cotton. I was just wondering if there are others out there that I'm not aware of who enjoy similar notoriety.

I was also curious as too just how good is Romero Cotton. Could Kansas' best 215 lbs wrestlers give him a pretty good run for his money, or would he dominate them as well? I have not seen these guys wrestle, and at least in Kober's case, I'm aware that he bumped up to face the likes of Disney - record be damned! (which I always admire) and according to your rankings, Bach & Racette are ranked ahead of Kober!

Respond if you like.

I saw Romero bump up to 215 for a few duals in OKC for the Junior Duals last July. He can beat many of them, but the top 215 guys are too much. Of course one of those was Deron Winn. Kober and Racette are solid upper level wrestlers, but Joe Bach is a cut above them. I believe Romero would struggle to beat Bach. I would like to see Detmer wrestle Bonewell, although getting back to that Fisher match, I think it would be much closer next time.

I really hope we can get our top guys to stay together for the Duals in July. They have a real chance to make a run at the big dogs in Pennsylvania and Illinois.

Chief:

Re: Fisher/Detmer: For the time being, let's ignore "next-time". What happened "last-time? What happened? The queation remains whether Fisher "ducked" Detmer at the finals. The evolution (devolution) of this match-up is less than clear. Did Fisher qualify for the championship and bow out at the prospect of again facing Detmer ... or was he injured. What happened?

Is that personal attack you so badly want to avoid on this forum from other adults as bad as the personal attack you are launching against a high school kid on this thread. I learned long ago that is is easy to question the illness or injury of a high school kid, but never right. He is a kid and if he says he is too sick or hurt to wrestler and he and his coach/parents decided to default, then it is not my concern.

i know he just lost on Saturday, but is anyone else going to challenge Zlatnik for the rest of the year?

RJWI:

It's not that I "so badly" want to avoid anything! What did I say: "No matter how, idiotic, ill-conceived, or not well or little thoutht-out) my comments may appear to you ... I'm entitled to my opinion ( By the way: not that I care if you agree or disagree. I really don't!)

Always remember coach: it's an opinion ... it may have some merit or not. I was not there. I don't know. I'm open to more informed opinions. If he (Fisher) says that he is sick... who am I to disagree (I have not heard nor to my knowledge,that Fisher was too sick to to go forward)

It could be (If he says that he was sick (and I am aware that there was a virus going around) that I have got to take him at his word - if that is his word.

Here is what I know: He had a another shot at Detmer. He chose to not take advantage of it. It was the finals of a tournament. He forfeited. I don't know why.

If that - in your opinion - is a personal attack. So be it!
Maybe, as guys like you see it, this is a personal attack. that was not my intent. Give me an explaination to the contrary. I'll consider it. That aside, don't expect me to cowtow to your "opinion" (although, I'm not sure what it was). I just won't. Sorry, coach!

Svo69 if you are so interested why don't you call the Fischers and ask them what the problem was instead of posting uninformed opinions about a high school kid on the forums.

Knowing Brent Fisher, he has never ducked anybody. If you met him or watched him work in practice, you would feel the same way.

Only in America is a Svo69 allowed to waste good oxygen and tarnish the freedom of speech. Is Svo69 is slang for moron?

Mr. Johnson, you are correct. The Kansas Team has an excellent opportunity this year. Hopefully, Detmer, Arnold, Caldwell, Flynn, Fisher, too mention a few, will continue to represent Kansas.

Excellent post Mr. William.

Svo69, Prior to defaulting, Fisher approached Carrolls' section of the auditoruim. Walked up the stairs and conversed with Mr. Detmer. Fisher is a class act.

Hey, now that is a good idea. ;-)

I know someone that did that with another wrestler he was interested in and the father gladly told him what was up. The two even had a nice civil email conversation. What a nice model to follow. . . If only more would do likewise . . .

Upon reflection, I admit that it was wrong to insinuate that Fisher "ducked" Detmer. I don't know Fisher. I don't know his work ethic. Evidently alot of you do.

In hindsight, I was wrong to insuinate that he may have chosen to avoid Detmer. If Fisher or members of his family, happen to catch a glimpse of this thread, please accept my apologies. He should not have some-one second-guessing or speculating upon his reasons for forfeiting that match.

As an aside, I have seen Fisher wrestle and I'll repeat: he is a steller wrestler!

What I want to know is ... whats the big deal??? Why do you care? Jesus its a highschool sport

And it isnt like this was state or national finals .. This was just a regular ol' tournament that everyone will forget come state time!

And I wouldn't want to wrestle someone of Detmer's caliber if i wasn't 100% or close to it (because you going to need it to win a match like that) .. and again this was an unimportant match at an unimportant tournament

so let something so miniscule go ..

Bach is the best 215 in the state he beat Racette at Eagle invite 3-2 I was told bach dominated the match.

So Bach wrestling Romero would be a great match to watch. The thing that you have to remember is that Bach cut from 240-230 from football to wrestle 215 So he is big strong and athletic. He also has great technique which pretty much makes him unbeatable. However the same could be said for Romero at his weight class. In my opinion it would have to be Bach just based on size.

Taking nothing away from Romero he would be hard pressed to Joe Bach. Romero has distinguished himself Nationally while Joe has remained a bit of a secret tucked away down in Liberal. Hopefully this summer he will step onto the raised platform in Fargo and get his hand raised just like Romero.

Fisher was ill in the Chanute SEK Invitational. He was throwing up. Is that a good enough reason?

Yes.

Jordan Meyer is 21-0 at 152lbs for Sabetha

Ha HA HA hahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!! A EXHIBITION sounds good to me.

lol yes

anyone know the results between carroll and kaupun tonight. i would think that carroll rolled but dont know how many jv wrestlers they may have thrown in there.

who is that? has he beat anybody good?

Jordan Meyer is a Senior at Sabetha High School, he was a state runner-up last year at 152lbs, losing by 1 point to Jordan Geinger of St. Francis. He won the Beloit tournament defeating Travis Rempe of Smith Center in the finals, he won the JayHusker Tournament beating Blake Mayes of Beloit, and he won the Rossville Tournament. He was named the Outstanding Wrestler of the Marysville tourney. Today he improved to 28-0 defeating Austin Lee of Jeff West. A previous post asked for "other" undefeated wrestlers than those already mentioned. Being his coach I posted in response to that.
And I think that to be 28-0 that wrestler had to beat someone "good" somewhere along the way, it is not like it is a JV record.
I am in no way comparing him to the people on this post, I am just stating that he is undefeated, an at the moment, has been untouched!

Coach Brown

With all due respect, Racette wrestled Bach last year and I believe he only lost by one. They wrestled again this year and I think Bach won 3-2. Seems like they're pretty even to me.

Bach is 2-0 against Racette. That's not even. It's a cut above.

Oh OK. Whatever gives you a warm fuzzy.

yea.. thats what i thought

Cotton; I assume your response is directed at Chief since he basically said Cotton would struggle with Bach. Chief sounds like someone who has never seen Cotton or Racette wrestle. He may have, but he makes himself sound that way. I've never seen Cotton wrestle, but I've heard he's an animal. Racette has wrestled Bach and they struggled with each other, literally. Racette lost both matches by ONE point. Now, if Chief is suggesting that Bach dominated those matches (his hearsay) then that is the best disquised domination I've seen. If you're able to dominate, I would think the margin of victory would be greater.

Joe did not "dominate" either match w/racette. Last year was 3-0, with nobody giving him a chance til it was over. this year it was 3-2, with a ref that was "tighter" than both wrestlers. He controlled both matches while riding, and couldn't be held down while on bottom. I assume that is what was meant by dominating. He also scored takedowns in both matches. All that said, 2 good moves in each match was what seperated those boys. I've seen alot of darn good wrestlers get a lead and "lay-up" for the win when they are wrestling another outstanding wrestler.
Also, it seems to me that even if wrestlers are great offensively, they need great defensive skills as well to be undefeated. We all have seen guys dominate a match, only to mess-up and get pinned in desperation.

Well said. BTW, what are Joe's plans for next year? I would assume he's playing football somewhere. I don't live in W. Kansas anymore and have somewhat lost touch with what's going on in the world of HS sports.

Just so everyone knows -- Cotton89 is not Romero. Rather it is probably someone w/ a man crush on Romero.

yes!!! i believe that is our first reference to a "man crush" this year! (at least since the first of the year) man, i sure miss Prant.

I beleive that joe is going to go to butler to play football. But not for sure.

How could my post make you think he "dominated" him? I said that beating him two times out of two was not "even", it was "a cut above". Nobody EVER said dominate.

Having seen Romero Cotton wrestle throughout the years,the arrogance and/or perceived aura of disrespect of Cotton89's remarks in this thread, certainly did not dovetail with my perceptions of Romero Cotton (the 189 lb wrestler) - even though I have never met this young man.

Cotton89: Your remarks, coupled with your obvious attempt to attribute them to Romero Cotton, is not something that I'd be proud of.

what senors have the best win loss records over the last for years ????

I think you're splitting hairs; possibly in an effort to save face, but that's just my opinion. The fact that you chose to post the "hearsay" from the report you were given concerning the matche(s) leads me to believe you bought into their opinion that Bach dominated. Oh, and I was wrong about the score last year. Bach won that match 3-0 but this year it was 3-2, which tells me Racette has closed any gap there may have been between the two. Given another chance Racette would have an even chance of winning. I think it would be a pick 'em at this point. We'll never know because they'll never wrestle each other again.

Closed any gap there may have been? He's never beaten him. There is a gap and it's not closed.

Won't they meet up again at the senior classic?

Did I ever say that Bach dominated? Where did you get that idea?

I am quoting my self here and just to get you off Cheifs back he did not say that Bach dominated the match it was me.

I am sorry I really shouldn't have used the word dominated. When I typed in the results for the Eagle Invite I know Bach got an escape and a takedown Racette got two escapes. Dominated wasn't the right word to use I believe maybe a more fitting term would have been controled the match this is based on hear say. Regardless if they were to meet again the difference in one move would change the result of the match so I would say Racette has an even chance of winning.

I'm a 3-2-1A homer, but from what I hear from folks around Oakley, the Racette match with Bach was never in doubt.

There are only 3 wrestlers that I have seen are Detmer, Cotton, & Disney.

Were they in a three man round robin? Who won?

I think my friend's point was that of all the wrestlers mentioned on this thread, that he has only seen THREE of them.

I do like all the speculation about who can beat who and all. But.... some times you so called WRESTLING gurus just cause hard feelings amongst wrestlers. I say that because I have watched many of these young men wrestle each other since they were 6 and 7 years old. For the most part they respect and like each other. Then the Gurus get on the website and well... give their professional input. I guess I would just like to see all the kids get the respect they desevre and acknowledge their hard work and dedication to their sport and school.

I kno Romero is undefeated, But what is his record and how many of them has he pinned?