Wrestlers 4 Christ - Regional Prayers

Regional time is rolling around, and this friday will mark 1 year for Wrestlers 4 Christ. First, I would like to thank you all for the encouragement you have given myself and our group. It is stressful at times, but it is worth it everytime a thanks is given. We have been able to spread the word of Wrestlers 4 Christ through prayer and t-shirt, but it is time to get other wrestlers on board with us. So, I'm are asking for any wrestler that is willing to give a pre-tournament prayer at their regionals to message me and let me know. Hopefully, we can get enough people to have a prayer said at every tournament, and BOTH DAYS. This would be a great step for what we are planning to do with this group. If you are worried about what to say, don't worry. I could help you out via e-mail. My e-mail is vandy_44@hotmail.com. So please let me know if you would be willing to help. The regionals include:


CLASS 6A -- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Manhattan High School – Mike Marsh, Regional Manager
Derby, Junction City, Manhattan, Topeka, Topeka-Washburn Rural, Wichita-East, Wichita-Heights,
Wichita-Southeast

Overland Park-Blue Valley Northwest High School – Steve Harms & Brad Wilson, Regional Managers
Olathe-East, Olathe-North, Olathe-Northwest, Olathe-South, Overland Park-Blue Valley North,
Overland Park-Blue Valley Northwest, Overland Park-Blue Valley West, Stilwell-Blue Valley

Shawnee Mission West High School – Harvey Shepard & Jeff Adams, Regional Managers
Lawrence, Lawrence-Free State, Leavenworth, Shawnee Mission-East, Shawnee Mission-North,
Shawnee Mission-Northwest, Shawnee Mission-South, Shawnee Mission-West

Wichita Northwest High School – J. Means, Regional Manager
Dodge City, Garden City, Goddard, Maize, Wichita-Haysville-Campus, Wichita-North, Wichita-Northwest, Wichita-South


CLASS 5A-- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Kansas City-Turner High School – Garold Baker & Peter Sierant, Regional Managers
Kansas City-Harmon, Kansas City-Schlagle, Kansas City-Turner, Kansas City-Washington,
Kansas City-Wyandotte, Lansing, Overland Park-St. Thomas Aquinas, Shawnee Mission-Bishop Miege

Newton High School – Brian Engelken, Regional Manager
Andover, Great Bend, Hays, Hutchinson, McPherson, Newton, Salina-Central, Salina-South

Tecumseh-Shawnee Heights High School – Warren Watson & Rob Dennison, Regional Managers
Bonner Springs, Emporia, Gardner--Gardner-Edgerton, Shawnee-Mill Valley, Tecumseh-Shawnee Heights, Topeka-Highland Park, Topeka-Seaman, Topeka-West

Wichita-Bishop Carroll High School – Slade La Munyon, Regional Manager
Andover-Central, Arkansas City, Liberal, Pittsburg, Wichita-Bishop Carroll, Wichita-Kapaun Mt. Carmel,
Wichita-West, Winfield


CLASS 4A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Chanute High School – Eric Methvin, Regional Manager
Altamont-Labette County, Augusta, Chanute, Coffeyville-Field Kindley, Columbus, El Dorado, Fort Scott,
Garnett-Anderson County, Independence, Iola, LaCygne-Prairie View, Mulvane, Parsons, Rose Hill,
Towanda-Circle

De Soto High School – Dave Morford & Steve Deghand, Regional Managers
Baldwin, Basehor-Basehor-Linwood, Carbondale-Santa Fe Trail, De Soto, Eudora, Kansas City-Bishop Ward, Kansas City-Piper, Kansas City-Sumner Academy, Lenexa-Saint James Academy, Louisburg, Osawatomie, Ottawa, Paola, Spring Hill, Tonganoxie

Holton High School – Mitch Beims, Regional Manager
Abilene, Atchison, Chapman, Clay Center-Clay Center Comm., Concordia, Easton-Pleasant Ridge, Hiawatha, Holton, Hoyt-Royal Valley, Lindsborg-Smoky Valley, Meriden-Jefferson West, Perry--Perry-Lecompton,
Silver Lake, Topeka-Hayden, Wamego

Pratt High School – Curtis Nightingale, Regional Manager
Andale, Buhler, Cheney, Clearwater, Colby, Hesston, Hugoton, Maize-South, Nickerson, Pratt, Russell,
Scott City-Scott Community, Ulysses, Valley Center, Wellington


CLASS 3-2-1A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Hoisington High School – Lonnie Irvin & Dan Schmidt, Regional Managers
Anthony—Anthony-Harper-Chaparral, Brookville-El-Saline, Cimarron, Elkhart, Ellsworth, Garden Plain,
Gypsum-SE of Saline, Hoisington, Holcomb, Lakin, Larned, Leoti-Wichita County, Lincoln, Little River,
Lyons, Meade, Montezuma-South Gray, Moundridge, Salina-St. Johns Military, Stafford, Sterling, Sublette

Marion High School – Tod Gordon & Chad Adkins, Regional Managers
Burden-Central, Burlington, Caney-Caney Valley, Cherryvale, Cottonwood Falls-Chase County, Douglass, Erie, Eureka, Fredonia, Halstead, Herington, Hillsboro, Howard-West Elk, Leon-Bluestem, Marion, Neodesha, Peabody-Burns, Rosalia-Flint Hills, Sedgwick, St. Paul, Whitewater-Remington, Wichita-The Independent

Norton-Norton Community High School – Jeff Wallingford & Greg Mann, Regional Managers
Atwood-Rawlins County, Belleville-Republic Co., Beloit, Bird City-Cheylin, Ellis, Goodland,
Hays-Thomas More Prep-Marian, Hill City, Hoxie, Mankato-Rock Hills, Norton-Norton Comm., Oakley,
Oberlin-Decatur Comm., Osborne, Phillipsburg, Plainville, Scandia-Pike Valley, Smith Center, St. Francis, Stockton, Wakeeney-Trego Community

Rossville High School – David Wonnell & Curt Brecheisen, Regional Manager
Atchison-Maur Hill Mount, Bennington, Burlingame, Council Grove, Effingham-Atchison County Comm.,
Eskridge-Mission Valley, Highland-Doniphan West, Horton, Leavenworth-Immaculata, Marysville, Minneapolis, Mound City-Jayhawk-Linn, Onaga, Oskaloosa, Richmond-Central Heights, Rossville, Sabetha,
St. George-Rock Creek, St. Marys, Troy, Wabaunsee, Wellsville

E-mail me if you have any questions. Thanks and lets get these tournaments filled!

We're still looking for quite a few Regionals to be filled. As of now, we have four regionals filled. If you would be willing to lead a prayer, let me know please. Here is what we have so far.

CLASS 6A -- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Manhattan High School –
Overland Park-Blue Valley Northwest High School –
Shawnee Mission West High School –
Wichita Northwest High School –

CLASS 5A-- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Kansas City-Turner High School –
Newton High School –
Tecumseh-Shawnee Heights High School – Andrew Laib
Wichita-Bishop Carroll High School –


CLASS 4A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Chanute High School – Zac Sparr
De Soto High School –
Holton High School - Brett LaMar
Pratt High School –


CLASS 3-2-1A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Hoisington High School -
Marion High School - Michael Vander Linden
Norton-Norton Community High School -
Rossville High School -

Thanks again.

Colton Gentry will do the Rossville Regional!!!!

Ryne Cokeley of St. James will do the Desoto regional!!!!!!!!!

Ben Randolph of Shawnee Mission East will cover the Class 6A Regional at Shawnee Mission West!

Don't mean to be contrary, but hardly think high school wrestling meet is the proper place for an "organized" prayer. Is this Prayer to be in the main arena with all wrestlers, coaches, and fans in attendance--or in a private room with just the wrestlers, coaches, and fans who want to participate. Am some what supprised that KSHSAA has not jumped into this discussion. I know a couple of state associations that have explicitly prohibited prayer like this proposal.

Contrarian towards everything,

Students retain their constitutional rights of free speech and expression, including the right to pray and share personal beliefs, while on their public school campuses. Under the Tinker standard, school officials may restrict protected student speech only if it "materially and substantially interferes with appropriate discipline." School officials may not prevent students from gathering together for prayer and religious discussion on school grounds, provided that students do so in a non-disruptive manner during non-instructional time. Non-instructional time would be immediately before and after school, at lunchtime, or any other "free" time when students are permitted to talk and mingle with peers on campus.

This is exactly what this will be. Sometime during warm-ups, a voluntary prayer will be offered to God.

Is this country great or what?

It is totally voluntary and student led, therefore it is non-exclusionary. The state is not supporting it in any means and therefore no need to police anything.

You did not answer my questions on where and who to!!

Voluntary is not always voluntary!!

You asked one question not two, without a question mark, so that probably threw us. It is irrelevant whether it's on the mat in front of anyone or in a room. I believe the plan is for wrestlers that wish to join in prayer to God, can do so.

First, I want to thank the guys that are volunteering to lead the prayers this weekend. This is just one more step to our dream of what Wrestlers 4 Christ can become.

That being said. Our main goal of this group is not to force individuals to engage in a religious practice they don't want to. Our main intent is to pray over the safety and well being of our sport we all love. What we do is make an announcement over the PA system that we will be having the prayer. We invite anyone that wants to join us. The prayer is said in the middle of a mat; however, it is said without the microphone so that we are making people listen, as some may wish. Our hope is that we do reach out to some non-believers, but it is not our job to force that onto somebody.

Thanks - Michael

We're getting closer and closer. It's awesome what's happening.

CLASS 6A -- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Manhattan High School –
Overland Park-Blue Valley Northwest High School –
Shawnee Mission West High School – Ben Randolph, Shawnee Mission East
Wichita Northwest High School –

CLASS 5A-- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Kansas City-Turner High School –
Newton High School –
Tecumseh-Shawnee Heights High School – Andrew Laib, Emporia
Wichita-Bishop Carroll High School –


CLASS 4A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Chanute High School – Zac Sparr, Rose Hill
De Soto High School – Ryne Cokeley, St. James Academy
Holton High School - Brett LaMar, Silver Lake
Pratt High School –


CLASS 3-2-1A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Hoisington High School -
Marion High School - Michael Vander Linden, Burlington
Norton-Norton Community High School -
Rossville High School - Colton Gentry, Rossville

> From: William (Bill) Mason [mailto:wmason5@kc.rr.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:17 PM
> To: Brent Unruh
> Subject: Prayer at Wrestling Regionals (to Rick Bowden Wrestling Administrator)
>
> Numerous posts on The KWCA web site (Kansas Wrestling Coaches Association) concerning the organization and presentation of prayer at this weekend's wrestling regionals.
>
> I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, and I am not anti-religion, but I seriously question the permissibility and the correctness of prayer at a sanctioned high school activity. I have read other state association prohibitions against prayer at their activities.
>
> What is the KSHSAA position?

I would think KSHSAA takes the legal position!

Students retain their constitutional rights of free speech and expression, including the right to pray and share personal beliefs, while on their public school campuses. Under the Tinker standard, school officials may restrict protected student speech only if it "materially and substantially interferes with appropriate discipline." School officials may not prevent students from gathering together for prayer and religious discussion on school grounds, provided that students do so in a non-disruptive manner during non-instructional time. Non-instructional time would be immediately before and after school, at lunchtime, or any other "free" time when students are permitted to talk and mingle with peers on campus.

This is exactly what this will be. Sometime during warm-ups, a voluntary prayer will be offered to God.

Is this country great or what?

THANK YOU!!! I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I actually think this thread should be in the "Other" section of this forum. Anyone else??

So, from your response, I gather that email spelling, grammer, and puncutation errors are sins and I should search out a wrestling regional with a planned prayer to save my bound for hell sorry a--.

Mr. Lemar:

First, who is Brent Unruh?

Second, how did my email get to you????????

Hey! You are welcome. Don't be so hard on yourself.

I seldom go to church,But I do not see any thing roung in some one praying for the kids to have a safe day on the mat.

It is funny how my kid AT AGE 8 will get all difrant crap sent home on every race and religion,but never any thing on christ.

This is the position statement of the KSHSAA:

Member schools should not conduct pre-game religious exercises in post season contests. Because of the diversity of people attending KSHSAA post-season event, the KSHSAA member school should observe a moment of silence for personal thoughts and meditation instead of invoking a prayer.



Rick Bowden

Perfect. In this case, member schools are not conducting nor invoking anything. It is the students who have the right to voluntarily do so.

Students retain their constitutional rights of free speech and expression, including the right to pray and share personal beliefs, while on their public school campuses. Under the Tinker standard, school officials may restrict protected student speech only if it "materially and substantially interferes with appropriate discipline." School officials may not prevent students from gathering together for prayer and religious discussion on school grounds, provided that students do so in a non-disruptive manner during non-instructional time. Non-instructional time would be immediately before and after school, at lunchtime, or any other "free" time when students are permitted to talk and mingle with peers on campus.

This is exactly what this will be. Sometime during warm-ups, a voluntary prayer will be offered to God.

Is this country great or what?

Boy if that is a reasion to go to he_ _,I am gone.

We as the USA need to know one thing.NO matter what we do or say some one will get mad.

This is the position statement of the KSHSAA:

Member schools should not conduct pre-game religious exercises in post season contests. Because of the diversity of people attending KSHSAA post-season event, the KSHSAA member school should observe a moment of silence for personal thoughts and meditation instead of invoking a prayer.



Rick Bowden

A "voluntary prayer" is not "meditation and personal thoughts".

Perfect. In this case, member schools are not conducting nor invoking anything. It is the students who have the right to voluntarily do so.

Students retain their constitutional rights of free speech and expression, including the right to pray and share personal beliefs, while on their public school campuses. Under the Tinker standard, school officials may restrict protected student speech only if it "materially and substantially interferes with appropriate discipline." School officials may not prevent students from gathering together for prayer and religious discussion on school grounds, provided that students do so in a non-disruptive manner during non-instructional time. Non-instructional time would be immediately before and after school, at lunchtime, or any other "free" time when students are permitted to talk and mingle with peers on campus.

This is exactly what this will be. Sometime during warm-ups, a voluntary prayer will be offered to God.

Is this country great or what?

How long you wanna do this??

You are missing the point. The school is doing nothing. It is student led. Please get that straight. Perfectly legal.

I think this is a cool thing for students to pray.

Contrarian, you are more than welcome to leave the premises during this time of "voluntary prayer" or "mediation and personal thoughts"

Why not have meditation and personal thoughts and at the same time have the PA system blast out "Onward Christian Soldiers".

And, which God is the prayer leader going to invoke, the Christian God, the Muslim God, Mary the Virgin, the Jewish God, or even Budhha. Jimmy Swaggert and Oral Roberts would probably have hissy fits on every God except their God.

After reading over and over this post I felt as though i needed to step in and say something. This is a student-athlete made group to pray for all those that compete in this great sport of wrestling. The praise and glory is not for the young men that run this group but for our Lord and Savior. These young men have prayed at multiple tournaments, including the 321A state tournament last year, and the spread of Wrestlers 4 Christ has grown rapidly. For anyone that does not agree with this I will pray for you and hope one day you will be able to see the great things that Jesus Christ does for this country and for these young men. No one is forced to come to the middle of the mat and no one is looked down upon if they do not want to pray.
As for you Mr. Contrarian, if you dont like it than dont listen into the prayer. It is simple. It is a free country and these young men are stepping to the plate and becoming leaders! In no way is this an organized prayer by the school, coaches, or administrators. One day i hope that you realize the greatness of Jesus Christ and maybe you could learn something from these young men.

Michael, Bret, and all the other young men that are taking a step in right direction to help glorify His name. Thank you for being great leaders in your generation, it may not be easy to take a different path from all your peers but there are many that respect you for what you are doing. Keep up the great work.

Matt Vander Linden

Kids of any faith praying for safety and sportsmanship at regionals is very low on the list of problems. It is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. The founding fathers never intended that you should never see religion practiced, only that you not be required to practice it.

If you can't absolutely cannot stand to witness it, do what I do when the flying monkeys come on The Wizard of Oz and bury your face in a pillow.

Let's bring this to a halt.

I do not object to prayer as long as it is done correctly. I have not seen a good response that truly justifies the "HOW' or "WHY" of what the supporters are proposing. I keep hearing a prayer for this or a prayuer for that, this right or that right. If it is to be conducted then I believe it should be held in a private place in the school--a class room or hallway, away from the public and but not in the gym, foyer, or commons area--and it should be conducted and completed prior to the start of sanctioned activities--check in and weigh in.

Contrarian,
It has been done correctly for well over a year now and it is just you that is bringing it into question. If you have never seen it done before it is a powerful thing to witness. If you want a full description than here you go,
While warm-ups are still taking place one student athlete will walk to the center of the mat he says nothing to anyone about following him and he takes one knee on the mat. Than whoever feels as though they would like to follow him joins him to do the same. When athletes have stopped walkin over the learder of the group prays for the great opprotunity that they have to wrestle. He gives thanks for safe travels of all, and for the saftey and sportsmanship of the wrestlers, officals, coaches, managers, and fans. He than asks for all that is done in that building to be put in the glory of His name. Than all that have joined say an "Our Father."
Like i said I hope anyone that has not been able to witness what happens with these young men get the chance to this weekend. God Blesss
Matt Vander Linden

Maybe we can just ask for a show of hands before the prayer who is for it , and who is against it and the minority can go sit in the hall or classroom. thats fair.
Although Contrarain from the looks of it on here you will be sittin there alone.
Keep up the good work boys and keep in mind you will allways have a (Contrarin) tryin to bring you down,GOD BLESS.

Please do not be sanctimonious and preach to me, and I will not preach to you. I neither need it or want it.

Contrarain. God works in mysterious ways! I am curious as to why my thoughts or words ten minutes before a meet are important, or threatening to you. In response to Bowdens words. Member schools are not enjoying fellowship, individual people are. Nobody is invoking anybody: Webster says: to petition for help or support : to appeal to or cite as authority. Is it Ok for me to Quote Mr. Webster or is that threatening to you also? You will be in my prayers tonight!
Harry

By no means is anyone preaching to you. You asked for facts and I am letting you know what these young men do. This is a group that is gaining strength by numbers and I am sure will continue for many years to come and I hope it does. As stated before no one is forced to join in with the prayer, however you are acting like everyone in attendence has to pray. These young men are not doing anything wrong so why are you raining on the parade?

Why? Because we paid to watch wrestling, not young impresionable teens being brainwashed in a public setting!!

Do you believe your right to be atheist in public is protected by the constitution?

I agree. these young man are doing nothing wrong, but they are being lead by a few zealots who are telling them to do. Some of this sound like what those Baptist wacko's who went to Haiti would come up with.

For Matt81, Harry Lamar, my12floz, bbd, and others; you do not need to pray for me to night, or have God bless Me, or invokwe Jesus for me. I will take my chances with my God, with with my prayers, in the privacy of my house or in my church.

And for Windjammer: Butt out big guy. I am in no way an atheist. And, I do not impose my beliefs on anyone, nor should anyone impose their's on me.

As I said previously, anyway you describe this proposal, it is still prayer. Why not just do what the KSHSAA position states: have a moment of silence, meditation, and personal thoughts. Plus have what ever you are going to have in a private place--a class room or hallway, but not in the gymn, foyer, or commons area, and have it completed before the start of scheduled sanctioned events.

We had one more agree, and are getting close to many other regionals being filled. Thanks again. With regionals being tomorrow, I just wanna say good luck to everyone!

CLASS 6A -- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Manhattan High School – Michael Ashpole, Witchita Heights
Overland Park-Blue Valley Northwest High School –
Shawnee Mission West High School – Ben Randolph, Shawnee Mission East
Wichita Northwest High School –

CLASS 5A-- Saturday, February 20, 2010
Kansas City-Turner High School –
Newton High School –
Tecumseh-Shawnee Heights High School – Andrew Laib, Emporia
Wichita-Bishop Carroll High School –


CLASS 4A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Chanute High School – Zac Sparr, Rose Hill
De Soto High School – Ryne Cokeley, St. James Academy
Holton High School - Brett LaMar, Silver Lake
Pratt High School –


CLASS 3-2-1A -- Friday and Saturday, February 19-20, 2010
Hoisington High School -
Marion High School - Michael Vander Linden, Burlington
Norton-Norton Community High School -
Rossville High School - Colton Gentry, Rossville

Michael Vander Linden

Next they are going to want us to get rid of the national anthem in case a citizen of another country is in the crowd.........

We are now accepting applications.

This post is represented by Brett LaMar, the co-founder of Wrestlers for Christ.
I just heard word from my father that the prayer I do before every tournament, that started off with over 1,000 straight injury free matches, has to be stopped by tomorrow. The first thing that popped into my mind is that there is absolutely no way that a person of any authority can tell me or any of my fellow wrestlers, coaches, managers, or officials when and how we present our prayer. Who has the authority to do so other than that guy named God? If you have a legit problem with this issue and you are really wanting this to stop, then come approach me center mat, and try to tell me and the other 100 wrestlers,officials, coaches, managers, and parents that it is illegal to do what the Constitution has guaranteed us to do. Why does this really bother people? Is it really offending you that much that you can't stand to see it?
I'll tell whoever is listening. Tomorrow I am going to invite people down for a prayer before we wrestle, and we are going to pray for a loved one from this State's wrestling family that has passed away recently, and we are going to pray for no one in our families and closest friends to ever have to experience something like that again that happened to the Newton community on Tuesday. Then I'm going to pray for safety, and for the well being of every student-athlete that has the guts to stick it out this long to be here on the regional mats today, and for the coaches who have worked day in and day out trying to prep their kids up for this big weekend, and for those coaches not to lose one of their wrestlers they care so deeply about, and for the officials that have showed up countless hours every Friday and Saturday working their butts off. I am then going to pray for all of those people and for their safety and I am going to look up to the Lord and thank him for keeping those people safe. That is what this prayer is about and I want to know whom-evers concerns they have about any thing I said.
God Bless to all. You will all be in my prayers.

Brett LaMar, SLHS

This is something that is NOT forced on anyone. If they would like to participate they are incouraged to do so. This is done durring the time when we wrestlers are warming up anyways so if you or your wresler doesn't believe in this practice, do not participate and continue to warm up. I think this is a great way to make everyone closer to not just God but to each other as team mates. I know it has helped my team out tremendously, and we are a rather close team and everyone gets along. I say we should have this at more tournaments and if you dont want to watch it, show up 10 minutes later, its should not be a problem for someone to practice thier religion in public because someone else doesn't belive the same. Good idea and God bless EVERYONE!! and AMERICA!

Let your light so shine before men,that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:16

Benelli, can you read? Do you understand what the word word voluntary means? The dictionary states:

Voluntary- proceeding from the will or from one's own choice or consent.

No one has to join in the prayer if you do not want too. No one is being brain washed. Kids at Catholic Schools still have their own opinions about faith. A simple voluntary prayer is not going to change anybody's faith or opinions.

These are high school kids expressing them selves through way of prayer and wrestling. It is something great that Michael and Brett have started and I'll bet that more people want to see it continue rather than have it shut down. I know I would.

Brett's post says it all. Now that's a young man that we all can be proud of. Even you, Contrary.

I am not understanding where you are coming from, even if a prayer is put over the loud speaker it does not dictate that people have to join in. On the contrary it is nothing more than an invitation for a moment of silence and reflection for people of any faith. (Also you are only making this cause stronger by working against it saying anything only makes the Christains feel persecuted .. )

That's the point, you ARE trying to impose your beliefs on people. You believe they should not have a public prayer and you are trying to impose that belief on others by sending them to a private place.

I did not say you are an atheist, I asked if you felt you have a constitutional right to act as one in public. I believe you do,and I believe they have a right to pray when and where their faith dictates to them that they should. If you find it distasteful, don't watch. I promise there are no ritual sacrifices or anything.

Once again, with all the problems our young people face today, it's sad when it is viewed by anyone as a problem that some of our best take a moment of fellowship to pray for safety and sportsmanship.

Pretty amazing that 200,000 people had enough respect to shut up and stand at attention when the Daytona 500 had their prayer invocation, then the national anthem. I guess we only have 2 here in Kansas that are that disrespectful.........

Folks, all I can say, when idiots like this get you down, is to remember the SILENT MAJORITY.

There is not a constitutionall right to be free from offense.

In other words, you have the right to be offended. But your being offended does not trump my right to free speech or the free expression of religion.

As long as its not organized by the school system who cares. But I would hope that the same people who support this would also be as tolerant of the Muslim wrestlers(there may be a few in Kansas) also having their prayer meeting, or the Gay wrestlers (there may be a few in Kansas, maybe more then Muslim wrestlers) having their informal parade.

I think most would, but gayness (if that's a word) does not enjoy constitutional protection so there is a distinction.

I'm guessing neither of those groups were in attendance at Daytona?

Why in the world would you want to take away something so positive! In a world where so much negativity is occurring it is great to see that our youth can still come together and pray for positive things to come to them and those around them! I know my son kneels down before every match and asks that both wrestlers are kept safe and a good match is wrestled. Glad to see our youth stand up for something they believe in!

If they were in attendance, I bet they respected the rest of the folks who chose to take part.

Let me add another comment. This solemn moment is something that these kids should take to heart. What really hacks me off is when some kid goes to the corner of the mat before his match starts, does his prayer thing, points to heaven, then acts like a total punk, headslapping, shoving his opponent into the bleachers, throwing a fit when he loses, etc. I don't believe that is what the Good Lord told him to do during his prayer. You see it every weekend on TV with the pro guys. And it rubs off on our kids. If you are going to honor the Good Lord with a prayer, give him a little more honor by not acting like an idiot after the prayer.........

Did I just hijack the post, or does that make sense to anyone else?

I will attend a 4A regional today, a 5A regional tomorrow, and probably the 4A finals tomorrow night. I will see some good wrestling, and I will enjoy myself. If they call for a moment of silence, meditation, and personal thoughts, I will join in. Do not attack my thoughts or my patriotism. I am believer, and I may be the only responder on this particular forum who has carried a gun and gone to far far away bad places.

They were there but you had better believe, that in that red neck atmosphere they knew they had better go along with the program! However I’m sure a few of those southern boys know how to play Dueling Banjos

I think this is a wonderful organization that has been started for our wrestlers. I want to thank everyone who has been involved in getting this going.As I have read through the post, I was in shock that another wrestling parent would object to the prayers that will be spoken today, for the safe keeping of their child. So, in that aspect, I want to thank the two men for the negative responses that they have made. See, when you tell a teenager that they can't do something that they know deep down in their heart is right, there is a trigger that goes off. This gives them the drive to do it even more. See, several of our boys already pray before their match, and reading these post will help them to understand how important it is to pray, and give them the determination to do so.
Again, thank you to everyones hard work to keep this organization going.

Posted by Contrarian......I am believer, and I may be the only responder on this particular forum who has carried a gun and gone to far far away bad places.


My Response......DON'T BE TOO SURE OF YOURSELF! There are plenty on here who have been there, done that and support the idea of the kids leading a voluntary prayer. You are not the only one on here that has served their country....however, you are one of the few that won't put their name to their comments.

Shawn Budke

you can't say that for sure jammer, now that we have covered the freedom of Christianity, we will also be forced to allow, any other form of religion, the same rights to practice as they see fit.

if a voodoo priest wants to sacrifice a chicken, remember if you find it distasteful, turn away, don't watch.

my point is this is a very touchy subject, and i feel it is a road well traveled, as much as i believe in what these young men are doing, there is two sides to every coin/ story. be smart, and be prepared, expect the unexpected.

i hope there is opportunity for Muslims, Pagans, Jews, and everyone else to invite others for prayer also. it is very compelling for out youth to believe in something so strongly, let's step back and let them practice their beliefs, NO MATTER WHAT THOSE BELIEFS MAY BE. whether it's redneck country or not it's still America and we all have the same rights.

good luck, compete hard and fair, pray that no one gets injured, God Bless!

Three things I was told not to talk to strangers about: religion, sexual orientation, and politics. Looks like were 2 out of 3!

Should do something for the muslims too though.

Thanks for your service Contrarian. We probaly chewed some of the same dirt!

My Name is Bill Mason. I live in Lansing. I am retired from the US Army. I do not wear my uniform, medals, have a HERO Purple Heart license tag on my pickup, or flaunt my service.

Have always been suspicious of of the supposedly spontaneous, voluntary demonstrations of any kind, including religious. They are seldom done for the individual, but mostly to shame others into a reaction. Religion is personal, starts and should remain in the home and the church--not a public spectacle.

No intention to hide my name. My Profile contains the name of the town where I live and my email address contains my name. I will not release my address--I do want not some firebreathing, bible and gun toter lurking in the neighborhood searching for evil.

Funny, it appears that about 90% of the posters have not listed such info as I in their profile and use a pseudnym or a moniker to hide or safeguard the identity. Where I come from that is called a lack of integrity.

Bill,

Welcome to the forum. I appreciate you stating your name and am grateful for your service to our country.

The difference comes with your statement about religion being a private issue. The Bible says just the opposite. I realize that many don't believe the Bible but those involved in this effort to glorify their God, do believe it.

In Luke 2:17, the shepherds that were called to Bethlehem to see the proclaimed Christ, the Savior of the world, acted in this way. "When they had seen this, they made widely known the statement which had been told them about this Child." Another passage in Proverbs 1:20 says, "Wisdom shouts in the street, She lifts her voice in the square; at the noisy streets she cries out."

Surely you understand that if a person truly believes that Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world, that person cannot remain silent.

It's no offense to you or any with your position. It's just a God given right that we can praise Him.

Thanks for your post,

Eric Johnson
913-484-3624

Contrarian makes a good point.
Wrestling is the greatest sport in part because it is all inclusive. It dosn't matter if you are 103 pounds or 285 pounds. It dosn't matter if you are handicapped or what color you are or what religion you are. It doesn't matter if you're the son (or daughter) of a doctor, lawyer or Chief. When you lace up your shoes and put on your headgear, it's about how you carry yourself on the mat. How you represent whoever your team, state, country, family or god is determined on the mat. Everything is equal in that regards. How you choose to practice your sport, or religion is reflected in how you handle yourself. The mat is not the place to practice your religion- it's a place to represent your values and your god. I don't want people wrestling in my church- they shouldn't 'practice' their religion on the mat. Demonstrate your values by how you carry yourself and how you interact with your coaches, teammates and competitors. That tells me more about your values than if you practice a ritual important to you out of its perspective venue. Be inclusive not exclusive. Show it on the mat.

The mat is not the place to practice your religion? You don't want people wrestling in your church? Did you think that post through?

Let's get this straight. God becomes a Man, lives a perfect life, dies on the cross for the sins of the world, is raised from the dead and declares that anyone who repents and trusts solely in Him will inherit eternal life. Those who fail to do so, will spend eternity in hell. And... we are to keep it quiet and to ourselves? Does that make sense?

Well said Chief!!!

Let me understand this. I am supposed to believe and trust in a vain, vengeful, vindicative and judgemental God--if I do not I will suffer forever. If God sets standards for me, who and what sets standards for GOD. I have my beliefs and you have yours. I do not have to publicly display my righteousnee, and I do not preach and proselyte anyone to my beliefs. I am at peace with myself and my beliefs. Evidently not so with you. please do not preach or quote scripture. It is not appreciated by me, and evidently by a few others on this forum. Be at peace and take your family to church!

Freedom of speech is a beautiful thing.

Amen. If kids want to have a T-Shirt and moment of prayer for Buddha, L. Ron Hubbard, or whoever . . . That is their freedom to do so. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Chief is sharing what he is excited about. Nothing against the law with that. Nothing in that that makes him 'not at peace with himself or his beliefs...'

I have visited with Chief privately on many occasions. He is always polite and kind and seems very much at peace with himself (God forgive him for his idolatry over this AC list stuff! hahaha). ;-)

To say/believe that is to say that anyone who excitedly posts on this site about wrestling - is not at peace with their wrestling, their life, etc. Logically Cont., your position makes no sense.

As Chief so concisely put it "freedom of speech is a beautiful thing."

As a man who professes Christ/God as my Lord and Savior - I have no problem with anyone that doesn't. That is between them and God. And, if they don't believe in God - cool. That is part of their freedom to. I hope to see some Buddha-belly-rubbing 'Wrestlers for Buddha' T-Shirts soon!!!

AAAhhhhhmmmmmmmm . . .

;-)

Lighten up. Have some fun. I think who or whatever you believe in, would be joyful with that . . .

We have beat this one to death. Lets go to a new topic. Someone recommended "sexial orientation" or "politics".


A show of hands for "sexual orientation": _______

A show of hands for "politics". _______

And for those who count, good luck to today's wrestlers at all the regional. As soon as I finish my coffee I am off to a 5A--watched a 4A yesterday.

This thread belongs in the "other" section.

Agreed. Lets just let it die. I think we have kicked it around more than enough.

Benelli! A voice of reason among the forest of trees!

;-)

I am proud to say my kids got into a corner, joined hands, and had a moment of silence and if you wanted to pray at that time, you could.

Coach Nelson, what was up with you and Bob wearing headbands yesterday? You two looked very stylish but I was wondering how serious the refs and table workers could take you during a conference! ;-)

Congrats on a great tourney for JC and good luck at state!

Dean

I would like to thank the young men who have been spearheading this. Life is about balance, family, faith, competition, work, etc. Balance the other side of your life with what you wish, I am happy my boys (my own son's) will be wearing wrestler for Christ shirts. Being on the mat is tough, so is the walk of faith.