FAB FIVE!

****The 2nd Annual FAB FIVE is.....****

In alphabetical order.

2010 - FAB FIVE:

Cade Blair - VC
Ryne Cokeley - SJA
Parker Madl - BV
Taylor Moeder - SJA
Chase Nitcher - VC

Pretty salty list. Who was the first fab 5?

1st FAB FIVE - 2009

Boaz Beard
Tyler Caldwell
Kyle Detmer
Kendric Maple
CJ Napier

I do not remember the fab five. What is it?

It's something I started last year. The top 5 All-Class wrestlers in Kansas.

I have a biased opinion, but Tyler Anderson should be on that list.

Chief,

Not that it really matters since it's just a fun and subjective thing anyway, but why not wait until after the state tournaments to designate the fab five? None of them is even a state champ yet. This year that is.

Using your time travel skills? Do you know something the rest of us do not? I am assuming I should have received an e-mail on this yesterday.

No state championship. Yet.

Funny you don't have the only potential 4-Time State Champion Senior on this list in Colt Rogers of Smith Center. Sure he hasn't wrestled "all-class" Kansas competition this year, but he has yet to lose a match to a wrestler hailing from the state of Kansas while in high school.

He accumulated three losses last year to some saltly out of staters who may have been nationally ranked (I have no way of looking back at the results from last year since the links are for this year). All of these matches were within two to three weeks after playing in the State Championship Football game, so I doubt he was in peak wrestling shape. One of the wrestlers was from one of the top programs in Montana last year, I believe it was Billings Skyview. Another came from a wrestler from Blue Springs, MO which is annually a good program. The last loss was against a kid from either Wyoming or Nebraska. If not for meeting this top flight competition or just being in better "wrestling shape" Rogers would be on the verge of matching the likes of Bo Maynes and Zach Roberson who never lost a match in high school. He's the only wrestler who would be on that list who has never lost to a Kansas wrestler.

Just some food for thought. I don't think me getting on my soap box for Colt Rogers will do much good anyways. Maybe extend the list to "Sweet Six" or "Studly Seven", so you can include the likes of Anderson from Clay Center. Or just base this list off of seniors.

Not saying that Colt Rogers isn't a good wrestler but as you have already stated he hasn't beat anyone of all class material this year. He was ranked ahead of Moeder but I believe since Moeder has seen better competition than Rogers then Chief decided to move him above Colt. I'm sure chief would easily place him in the "Fab Five" if he saw better competition.

Better competition or not, he's going for 4 state titles, that's an elite club that except for Cokeley, the other's will never be a part of. 321A or 456A, 4 State Titles is deserving, regardless of the "level" of competition faced out of State, he has gotten it done in State when it matters the most.

I know he's not listed as #1 in the All Class but IMO he's the most accomplished at his weight.
Nationally Ranked!
Kyle Caylor is one of the best of the best!
He already has one state runner up and 2 state titles and stands a really good chance for a 3rd!
Thats pretty fab IMO!!!

Well if you want to throw in Caylor you would have to put Mark Kolmer ahead of him for this year because of the head to head dont get me Wrong Caylor is one of if not the greatest Kansas Fargo and national wrestling at his weight but i would beleive that the head to head would put kolmer ahead and Ryne vs Cade and Moeder vs Nitcher shouldnt that cancel 2 of those out for such fact that they have wrestled each other is there not undeafeated wrestlers out there that deserves some such as Cody Beasley or Jace Banner or even Finney just my 2 cents.

Might want to consider Danny Floyd, Hasn't been beat in 2 years...oh that's right, he's from a small school..never mind.

a

I vote to put Colt on the list or expand the list to include 6 or 7.

Awesome, one of my three favorite all time threads along with the Chief list and the annual class attack (including the proverbial "boo hoo he went to state with a losing record" whine). But I am so sorry to say Ricky, I would like no part of anything referred to as Sweet Six or Studly Seven. Nice thought but not cool. If anything, you would have to go Fab 5 + 1 or 2 or whatever. But it has to be Fab 5 because then I can use the word fabulous over and over again because that is just a cool word. Sweet and Studly....no.
Nice to see Colt come up as he is indeed fabulous, but I understand concern over level of competition.
As for my choice, if he beats Boyer tomorrow knock on wood, the man who goes to the head of the class for me is Little BadBo Pursel as he is the most fabulous of all.
I think that you should start a Man Crush list Chief.

Beasly, Kolmer, Banner, and Finney have yet to win state. In fact Beasley is ranked behind Zac Sparr.

Cade Blair is a potential 3 timer(undefeated with a close match with Cokeley)
Taylor Moeder is a potential 2 timer and maybe even 3(has a loss because of a very controversial DQ)
Chase Nitcher is a potential 2 timer(has not lost to anyone ranked below him in 2 years)
Ryne Cokeley is a potential 3 timer and is the only wrestler in the class of 2011 that can be a 4 timer(he has not loss to a kid ranked below him in 2 years as well)
Parker Madl is a potential 2 timer and is undoubtedly one of Kansas' most dominate wrestlers this year.

On the Colt Rogers and Danny Floyde topic. I would be willing to bet a lot of money that if the current "Fab Five" were in 3-2-1a they would all be undefeated 4 timers. JMO

I'd take that bet.

Cade Blair's freshman year he was JV for Valley Center. I can remember reading results from the Fredonia Tournament, he won in a one point match against a state qualifier from Burlington who went 0-2 at the state tournament. I believe he was wrestling at 130 which would have meant he would have wrestled 2X state champion Nathan Broeckelman of Norton. Safe to say Blair would not have had a cake walk as a 321A wrestler, he'd have been lucky to make it to state. He has improved 10 fold since that freshman campaign, but that year he was not quite the impressive wrestler you see now.

Nitcher and Madl freshman year's would've matched them in the same weight as Colt Rogers of Smith Center, I wouldn't say this is a gimme. Not to mention the fact they'd have wrestled one another had they both been in 321A.

During Cokeley's freshman year he could have likely won 321A, but he would have needed to go through 2X state champion Collin Hase of Silver Lake. Hase had performed well against Sharky Slyter who had beaten Ryne in the regional finals. I think this would have been an interesting matchup.

Moder is the only person I can say with confidence that I think could've won a state championship in the 321A bracket he was in as a freshman. He would've met Fracisco Antillion of Scott City who he has wins over in his career.

Don't just go and make some uneducated assumptions on how a wrestler might have performed in a classification without looking at past data.

Ricky,

I agree with you on all everything but I would also like to point out that a lot of the 321a schools see each other more than once correct? Cade Blair's sophomore year he had 9 losses and he avenged almost all of those losses and he went through one of the toughest routes to win state beating Senior Brett Delich who was 30-5, Junior Colby Crank who was 27-5, Junior Tavo Dikin who was 24-12, and finally Joe Hagan who was 23-4 and had beaten Blair the week before at regionals. He is obviously a fast learner and in a short period of time find a strategy to beat his opponents.

Nitcher has lost to a total of 2 people. Once by Moeder and multiple times by Jordan Keller. That pretty fabulous if you ask me.

I would be all for putting Rogers in the "Fab Five" except for the fact that he is ranked below Moeder. You have to agree that Moeder seeks some of the toughest competition out there. He has quality wins over plenty of Kansas Greats like Nitcher, Antillion, and Callahan. Not to mention he beat a 2 time Colorado State Champ and an Oklahoma State Champ as well.

As I have learned the hard way, Cokeley travels out of state to seek competition more than any other Kansas kid. He has 2 State titles and is going for his third. I have also learned that he traveled to another country and wrestled freestyle. His father apparently will do anything for his kid to get the best competition including making sure it is ok for his kid to wrestle in an open college event (which he took 5th at).

As Chief has stated his Fab Five are the top five All Class wrestlers. Danny Floyd and Colt Rogers are both ranked below someone which knocks them out of the running.

Quagmire,

I just didn't want you to bet the farm or all of that money you've been making from flying planes without a little food for thought.

I'm well aware of Blair's sophomore tear through state, it came as a large surprise to me when I saw it in '08 and even today while looking at past exploits of the "Fab Five" I still can't believe his rapid improvement in that one season span.

JV one year to state champion is very impressive, but still does not equal undefeated 4X state champion in 321A. I will point out that the only 4X time state champions who ever went undefeated were in 5A and 6A programs, so I'd say the odds might be higher in these divisions. In fact only one wrestler ranks on the list for career win-loss record in 321A at the moment and Colt Rogers will bump him out of the top 20 upon joining the list.

Top 20 Career Records in Kansas

Also, what are you doing up at a late hour such as this? Shouldn't you be teaching some young lady in the ways of love?

let me know richard robert, where your bet goes here, with the odds or your heart. roberson and maynes were very dominant in hs and defenitely sought out the competition, everywhere, and in the off-season. you are faced with a big bet here. odds are because no wrestler in 321a has gone undefeated, that it you should bet against maynes and roberson. what is it gonna be? do you go with the odds, and those precious stats, or do you go with that mt.dew filled gut? jsut don't want you to lose all that wonder bread money. trying to follow too many stats will get you into as much trouble as not knowing the facts. have never seen it in print, but have heard the legends that maynes was never even taken down in hs. maybe another statistic to look up before deciding.

by the way i see on the newest members list there's a fella you know well on there, you and FRANKTHETANK could be brothers, you look so much alike.

It is true that Maynes was never taken down.. I know cause I wrestled him twice and roberson once in HS.. Both were tougher than nails.. They made up 3 of my 8 losses in HS.. If memory serves me rigth they were the only losses i didnt avenge.. They did seek out tough competition wrestling year round.. Not saying that is everyrhing but I think people really follow the cliche that respect is earned.. Right or wrong, the wrestlers who wrestle in the spring and summer garner more respect..

First of all the "Fab Five" is a "made up honor". I like the All Class rankings and think that everyone, for the most part can agree on the #1's. This "Fab Five" is pooey in my opinion. If you want to have a "made up honor", lets get a good one. How about the "Pound for Pound Best Wrestler in Kansas". Now that will be debated as much if not more than "Which Class is Tougher".

Colt Rogers should be part of the fab five. This is a joke if he is not.

While watching the telecast of the 321A finals I just heard that Colt Rogers is the fourth 4X State Champion in 321A. I'm not sure of the numbers but I believe it has happened a lot more in the higher classifications, maybe not 4A.

I was also well aware of the state that Maynes had never been taken down in high school. This was something that was always advertised at the USAWKS Camp held in Manhattan. They even had an offer where all of the participations could attempt a takedown on Maynes. I was surprised that it never really translated into success at nationals while at Oklahoma. I think he was injury plagued while in college though.

Tyler Anderson has his State Champ now. I know its a subjective list - but it is for this year, right??? Blair and Anderson's semi-final preformances were most impressive.

Pound for Pound! Gotta go with Cade Blair. Undefeated, 3 timer. Everyone knows what coming, but can you stop him?

Did Cade give up a takedown this year?

JMO

How is it a joke if he is not #1 all-class. Isnt that what this Fab 5 thing is supposted to be number #1 all class at your weight and the top 5 who Chief thinks the best. Chief definitely picked the right 5 to put in there. Although i would put Anderson as the next to go in there before colt and Floyd (i mean those two arent even #1)

Absolutely no argument with these guys:
Cade Blair - VC-Has to be considered one of the fiercest competitors to step on the mat in Kansas. Look in his eyes while he is wrestling, and you see quickly it is all business.
Ryne Cokeley - SJA-Not a position that he isn't familiar with, fun to watch
Parker Madl - BV only saw him at one tourney, and have to say wow. Built like a brick Sh*thouse
Taylor Moeder - SJA-As smooth as you will see.
Chase Nitcher - VC-Probably the best initial flurry of action you will see in Kansas. As good of hips as you'll find.

Add to the list:
Tyler Anderson CC-nasty, smooth, funky, whatever you dial up, he's in......

BJ Finney-I didn't see him put himself in a bad position all year. Totally in control of every match.

Dylan Walker ELDorado-A kid that hasn't gotten much attention. This is going to ruffle some feathers, but he is HANDS DOWN the best 189 lb kid in the state. You can argue all you want, but it won't do any good. He throttled a stud in the Anderson kid from CC.

The Rogers kid beat all comers and it is not his fault that his team didn't wrestle at tourneys where any of the other top flight 130 lb kids were at. I'm sorry, but when he beats a Taylor Moeder, a Kyle Johnson, or a Brandon Charboneau, he can claim some of this action. EVERY one of the Fab Five, and my add ons, has wrestled and beaten top flight competition.

I would like for our latest 4 time champion to go to Senior Nationals to showcase his talent, so he can put to rest, or confirm, the doubts. Anyone know if he is signed up?

i'm a fan of all of the "fab five". but colt rogers would not only be on "my list", but he may be #1. looking for quality win? he's 2-0 vs collin hase who finished 5th in the country this weekend @ njcaa's.

I think this is a great fab five with Blair, Moeder, Cokeley, Madl, and Nitcher. And Cheif and would like to say I am sorry for arguing with yor rankings I should just keep quite. Pickings is a animal and for Blair to beat him he gets my vote for wrestler of the year...

I didn't know high schoolers could wrestle college kids? Just kidding. Chief has put this out there for THIS year. No one is keeping you from making your own Fab list.

Seriously, I am not egging you on, is Rogers going to Senior nationals? I really want to see how he stacks up. And if he does well, he'll get the recognition he deserves. If he doesn't, I am sure there will be people that will pile it on him. I won't be one of them, as I will respect him for going where he couldn't go with his school, which is to a showcase event to show his skills.
Doug

smith center does wrestle the abeline/manhattan dual tourney, flat water fracas, beloit inv, and they wrestle in the mcl. we're talking about a kid with 3 losses in 4 years here. i think he stacks up just fine. i dont even know if he's wrestling in va? hope so.

Being a four time state champ in any class is a major accomplishment. Congrats Colt

I am not arguing that point at all. Not only do you have to be good to be a 4 timer, you have to be lucky. Lucky to not get sick before state, not to get injured, etc.

But don't you agree that he could shut everyone up by going out and finding the top notch competition that his schoo's schedule doesn't allow him to wrestle? Winning a few matches at Senior Nationals would stop the jabber. I guess for me it would be a disappointment for one of our premier athlets, one of a handful of 4 timers, to NOT go to the premier Senior event in the country. All Seniors that make the finals at any time during their careers are eligible, so why wouldn't we as a state even help FUND a 4 time CHAMPION'S trip to Virginia? We gotta quit talking, and go prove things on the mat.

By the way, congrats to Clay Center for winning 4a again. You guys keep putting great teams on the mat.

I agree.. That is a great accomplishment.. I didnt even know he got his 4th state title yesterday.. Congrats to Colt and his family!!

Chiefs, who is that kid? He looks like the Incredible Hulk! ;-)

When I talked to the Smith Center Coach at the Beloit Tourney he told me that Colt was going to be wrestling at Sr. Nationals. I think that he will be very competitive there. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do. I agree that he should not be over any of the 5 on the list but he is definitely right up there.

That is great news. Does anyone have a list of the KS kids that will be at Senior Nationals? I know Chase Nitcher, Cade Blair, and Benny Armstrong are going.

Don't know why, but the KSHSAA program doesn't have the 321a brackets in it, and the online brackets don't give grades, so I don't know who is a senior and who isn't.

How about Anderson Sparr Davis Lamar Hood Morgan Cortez Hambleton Walker Hopper Wuthnow all in 4A for this year.

Boyer Smith JOnes Biddle Oliver Is Blew a senior? Davis Walker Seibel Gaskil Curtis Flanigan Truman Kolmer Matheny Potts Bennett all in 5 a for this year

Miller Greenlee Shavlik Dozier Charland Hiller Royal Madl Chaparro Caylor Hicks Trent Page all in 6 A this year





BJ Finney is going to start getting ready to play football at K State and is not attending.

They had a list of those who had previously qualified. They were actually waiting on this weekends finals to add those who had'nt qualified prior. hopefully within the next few days they will have the updated list.


Mel

Great discussion on this thread! The Fab Five came out of a group of 15 wrestlers that were on my initial list. I narrowed the list to 10 and then it got much tougher. I can tell you that Colt was the last wrestler taken off before I posted the thread. There has been much discussion about competition levels. At least during the folkstyle season, Rogers had no control over his schedule. In the off season, he had some highs and some not so highs. He beat Parker Madl at Brute one year and lost to Jake Mainz at 16U Kids state. He has had an incredible and historic high school career that includes being a phenom multi-sport athlete. In his case, Taylor Moeder's level of competition both in Folk, FS and GR, kept him off the short list. Every single wrestler that was in that top 15 deserves accolades and can be argued as "fabulous". Even those that barely missed the original list are hero role models in their community.

The bottom line is, Kansas wrestlers are just plain TOUGH. We may not have the same opportunities as other states, but give me a Kansas wrestlers heart on my team anyday!

Very well stated C.R.!

I can tell you that Logan Singular and Tyler Anderson will be attending Sr. Nationals.

Great to hear of two more KS kids headed to Virginia.

It would be nice if we could fill up a busload or two of Kansas kids to show 'em what we got........

Dylon Walker will be going to Senior Nationals

I don't know much, but Cade Blair is very good. He would be on my FAB ONE list.

In a match between Colt Rogers and Mitch Beims, I would have to go with Colt Rogers, because he's from a bigger school. JMO.


Brian Budke

Walker is tough as nails.

Anyone heard if the Osawatomie kid, Grimes, is ok? He did something to his knee on the backdoor match. He is tough also. Him and Anderson had a good semis match.

Grimes tore his MCL and ACL early this year, In December they scheduled surgery scheduled for March 26th. Zack wanted to finish the season before getting his knee worked on. The knee went out in the first period of his backdoor match so he injury defaulted to 6th.

Why all the biased speculation. Just vote on the fab five after Senior Nationals. Gives you the truth of who is the best in their weight reguardless of classification. I feel all classes 321a 4a 5a and 6a all have talented kids, and at the same time they have some very weak weights as well.

lyle

It will always be biased speculation. Part of the reason that Cokeley, Moeder and Madl are in there is because of National events.

Why all the biased speculation. Just vote on the fab five after Senior Nationals. Gives you the truth of who is the best in their weight reguardless of classification. I feel all classes 321a 4a 5a and 6a all have talented kids, and at the same time they have some very weak weights as well.

lyle

Someone that has gotten left off of this list, and I have not gone and looked at the competition he has wrestled this year, is Zach Gentzler. He put on a dominating run to an undefeated season. He has also put on a lot of miles driving to find the tough competition over the years, just haven't dug around to see what his competition looked like this year. He would have to be on the short list as well, even though he is just a freshman.

Definitely Zac is awesome and a Future Fab Fiver for sure.
For me though, Zac will have to get in line behind Little Badbo because he is the most fabulous of all.

It will always be biased speculation. Part of the reason that Cokeley, Moeder and Madl are in there is because of National events.

Bo shouldn't make the list because of the sound thumping he took at Indianapolis 2 years ago in the chicken teriyaki sandwich eating contest he had with Jerry Dale.

X,

If you keep up this lovefest with Badbo we might have to ask you to voluntarily register yourself.

First off Dear Will, it is Little Badbo not Badbo. Badbo is not near as cute or Fabulous. And secondly, that was a way unnecessary comment because I already suggested a Man Crush List to deal with this. But once again, thanks for the constructive criticism. I should have known that I could count on you. And I might add that you will not be on the Man Crush List and you need to do something with your hair.

I think the word fabulous should be reserved for a sport other than wrestling. It is way too feminine!!! Reminds me of Brian(the dog) Griffin's gay cousin talking on Family Guy.

How about Exquisite?

You know the answer to that one too.......................

Just like I jumped a mom this weekend for screaming "go sweetheart!" I told her yelling "rip his Freaking head off Sweetheart" would be better, or just stay quiet.

Ok Doug, I understand your sentiment but then it couldn't be the Fab 5 because obviously Fab means Fabulous.
Suggestions?
Don't forget about the Fabulous Thunderbirds or better yet the Fabulous Freebirds. I know you aint about to call PS Hayes, Bam Bam Gordy or Buddy Roberts feminine.

Ok, so I'll move my argument to the Chief. Chief, you have to change it to the Cinco Sickos, or the Maniacal Five, or the Five Freaking Animals, You'll think of something..........Or I could just stop watching Family Guy.

It's not Fabulous. It's Fab, which makes it OK.

Like the laundry detergent? As in "take 'em to the cleaners" I can live with that.

I agre with Lyle. This Fab Five deal is rediculous speculation. None of those 5 even won by a major decision in their finals matches at state. You know, I bet that Lyle wouldn't have been on a pre-nationals "Fab Five" list either if there was one back then.

Brian Budke

Brian,

You think those 5 wrestlers are a ridiculous speculation? That would imply that they are not even close. Do you have a hospital gown on?

So they aren't good enough because they didn't win by more than a major decision? Did you know that all of those wrestlers on that list excpet Cokeley have either been in the same bracket or have wrestled their opponent more than once. The more you wrestle someone the closer it should get every time. Eventually they should figure out how to beat them. A prime example would be Trey Holden and Bradly Little.

Quaqmire,

You crack me up dude.

I don't think anyone questions the five on the list, they only question the need to narrow the all class rankings down to five.

Chief is familiar with the wrestlers and recognizes their tremendous talent. Someone west of...say metro KC might have a list of 5 that includes DeShazer, Finney, Anderson, Floyd and Rogers, all undefeated state champs and deserving in their own right. This list would offend anyone from back east.

The point is, any list of five leaves out some very deserving kids.

I have done some research and have compiled some Data as to why these young men should stay the FAB FIVE:

Cade Blair:
3x High School State Champ(twice in 5a and once in 4a).
Undefeated Senior Season.
1 loss in his Junior Season(he split with Joey Dozier).
Sophomore Season he avenged almost all nine losses.
He has quality wins over:
Ryne Cokeley(3xer)
Joey Dozier(State Champ)
Sam Son(2x runner up)
Colten Picking(stop his undefeated season)
Colby Crank(State Champ)
Josh Rodriguez
Morgan Numrich
Fun Fact: Went from being JV his freshman year to being a State Champ his sophomore year.

Ryne Cokeley:
3x High School State Champ.
Has not lost to anyone ranked below him his past 2 seasons.
Only loss to a Kansas kid was Cade Blair his Junior season(3-2 in the third over time).
Only loss to a Kansas kid his sophomore season was to C.J. Napier(4-2).
Was in arguably the toughest 4a bracket in the '08 season:
1st Cokeley
2nd Sparr(State Champ in 2010)
3rd Anderson(State Champ in 2010)
4th Weller(State Finalist in 2007)
5th Slyter(State Champ in 2007)
6th Rockhold(State Finalist in 2007)
Has 2 wins over 2x state Champ Spencer Blew.
Has a win over Kash Biddle.
3rd in 2008 Cadet Greco Nationals.
2nd in 2008 Cadet Freestyle Nationals.
Number 1 ranked Junior in the WrestlingUSA magazine.
Fun Fact: The Wyoming Kid that Cokeley wrestled at the Big Horn Nationals had an undefeated senior season this year.

Taylor Moeder:
2x High School State Champ
Only one loss this season(very flukey)
Has wins this season over 8 STATE CHAMPS:
Jordan Basks (2x OK State Champ)
Oliver Pierce (Freshman State Champ in TX) this was pre season
Josh Haugen (OK State Champ)
Kash Biddle
Chase Nitcher (2xer)
Gage Harrison (MO State Champ)
Joseph Martinez (2x CO State Champ)
Brandon Charbonneau

Chase Nitcher:
2x State Champ
Has only lost to 2 kids his entire career (Jordan Keller and Taylor Moeder)
Has quality wins over:
Daniel Deshazer(2x state champ)
Brandon Charbonneau(State champ)
Colton Eck(state runner up)
Kash Biddle(state champ)
Ulysses Deshazer(2x state runner up)

Parker Madl:
2x High School State Champ.
Undefeated Senior season.
1 loss in his Junior season.
Very impressive Senior Season.
Signed with Oklahoma University.
Quality wins:
Linwood Peoples
Benny Armstrong(2x State Runner up)
Evon Royal
Matt Reed
Chaz Lawrence(State Champ)
Reece Conklin(State Champ)
Cameron Jesseph(2x State Champ)

Who has better credentials than these 5?

If by ridiculous you mean funny and entertaining than I agree.
If you mean as in stupid, illogical or asinine than I do not.
As far as speculation, that comment itself is ridiculous and asinine. I think that most everyone would agree that those are the "Fab" 5. It is just a matter of say selecting the next two or three. That might be speculation. As far as Senior Nationals, you can't just base it off of that. Certain individuals might have tougher weights, etc. I don't think that we have to have more results to determine the "Fab" 5. The only maybe would be whether to add Rogers or not. Just my thoughts.

You big school people remind me of the guy from My New Hair Cut. EVERYONE else just smile nod and let them think they are right they are to dumb to know any better.
Colt Rodgers should be at the top of this list.

Lucas,

List the criteria as quagmire has in your support of Rogers being #1. A sound bite or two is not convincing.

Im sorry I have no clue what you are talking about.
You want Criteria as to why he should be number one. Well um lets see 4x timer never beat by another Kansas kid. 136-3 record

That is the lazy list of criteria. It's also deceiving, seeing that he has lost to Mainz and Hentzen, both Kansas kids. Of the 136 wins, how many were at national tournaments? How many were state champions outside of 321A? Keep in mind that I have applauded loudly for Colt his entire career. This is also the appropriate thread to discuss the differences between his record and the FF, instead of the CR thread.

Thats all your getting from me. and that record is not right i did not count his wins at state so it would be even more wins with 3 losses. And i thought i read his losses were too out of state kids. I did not look up Nationals.

Mr. Baker,
No one is trying to diminish Colt Rogers or say he doesn't deserve to be on the list but some times winning state isn't enough. The Fab Five have gone above and beyond winning state and beaten the best competition and wrestled in the off season. I am sure if Colt had more credentials to show Chief then he would gladly put him on the list.

I have read every post and I wanted to call Mike Rogers and to get the real story but here is my guess:

Colt quit traveling and wrestling outside of HS because he LOVES to play football and he is involved in track. Smith Center's football program,my guess, takes total focus on football. On top of that, carrying the ball as much as he does takes its toll on your body. Colt made the choice NOT to be an elite national level wrestler. Winning state four times is a great accomplishment but does not make him one of the best guys we have on the mat right now. The way to be elite it to wrestle 10 to 11 months of the year and seek the best competition in the country. The FAB 5 doesn't punish kids for not doing this, it REWARDS those who sacrificed other sports or opportunities to be the best of the best. Personally, I wish Colt would have applied himself to wrestling and been on every one of the cadet dual and junior dual teams. I would have loved to have had him at the SP Camps and Fargo Camps the last three years. If he would have MADE THE CHOICE to do these things he would most certainly be one of the best of the best. To me the big school vs small school argument is a dead horse. 321A is NOT what it was and it will continue to be diminished by the shrinking populations of these towns. At the Big School vs Small School dual last year nearly every 321A wrestler was defeated. I would expect the same result this year. It is just a fact. Seeing all of these communities die is not a good thing but it is happening and the 321A schools are going to have to make it to Newton, Garden City, Basehor, and Derby to seek the best competition. Wrestling small NE and CO schools is not going to cut it. You will find the same situation in CO, OK, and MO. The small schools cannot compete with the big schools in wrestling, in general. The state champs from the bigger programs are better than those from the smaller programs. Just the way it is in 2010.

Will,

Last year was quite an up year for 5A and 6A last season, mostly 6A. The large class had studs on that team including Beard, Caldwell, Detmer, and Maple, who are all wrestling at the D1 level. Not to mention all of the D2 guys with Cox, Means, Fulbright, and Crank. Beard was the only one who lost , and that was from a funk move by Kriss of Colby (4A) who is currently wrestling at Indiana that pinned Beard. Napier and Maple was a barnburner with Maple coming out on top. Bortz of Pratt (4A) got a fall and he's at Oklahoma State. Kyler of Ellsworth (321A) got a fall and is now starting at FHSU.

Look at the results from the past years. The small schools have competed better and did win 2 of the 5 duals. Even the 321A wrestlers made major contributions in those wins. In 2007 six of the ten wins were by 321A wrestlers and in 2006 five of the eleven victories were by 321A kids. That's not that far of a jump back in time. Many of the wrestlers who will be in the dual this season will have practiced with the members of the '07 team as they were freshmen then. Even in a loss in 2005 the 321A wrestlers held the banner for the small school team winning 5 of the 8 matches won.

While the 321A classification has not seen the elite wrestlers that were their 10-15 years ago the wrestlers are still competing well against the best of the best from the large classes. Here's a list of those premier wrestlers from the 1990s and early to mid 2000s.

Clint Freeman of Ellsworth went to Missouri
Kelly and Billy Gable of St. Francis went to Oklahoma State
Travis Baker of Hoxie went to Nebraska
Nathan Lawrenz of Herington went to Northern Iowa
Chris Prusel of Effingham went to Iowa State
Michael Sprigg of Norton went to Army
Alex Thomas of Norton went to Nebraska

321A has been home to many heavy weights who would have had stellar careers at the division 1 level, but they all choose football instead. Jeff Boyle of Norton went to Wyoming and later played for the Cincinnati Bengals, he was a member of the Dapper Dan National Team. Steven Foster of Sedgwick plays football for Kansas, as does Duane Zlantnik of Rossville.

You forgot Josh Lawrenz of Herington went to Northern Iowa.
One of the Jenkins from St. Francis wrestled at Air Force.

The fab 5 should be voted on. Not made up by one big school biased person. Make a poll with the top ten wrestlers in the state and let the people pick. That would be fair in my opinion.

Polls can be biased too. I'm game for a poll too and I would bet that you will have the same results you have now. Once again, look at the credentials I put up for the fab five. These 5 not only win state championships, they dominate all over the state and the country.

A big school biased person. Lucas, you cannot give me detailed criteria. Without that your claims are sour grapes.

I have NINE 321A wrestlers ranked in the top 5 All-Class rankings. Many of them with zero criteria. 4A dominates the rankings and have the top ranked team. In fact, 4 of the 5 FF wrestlers are 4A. Are they big class?

When you post, make a point and back it up. Otherwise you won't be taken seriously.

awesome job to rogers....again 4 state championships in any class is huge.....great job in football too....i wish you the best of luck in your future. the only thing i wished i would of seen was the rogers moeder match...would of ben good would of put my money on moeder but that would of settled all questions.....again great high school career...not many on that list. good luck in the future.

He is one of only 25 Kansans to ever do it, with out him on the list your list is garbage.

So your saying the current kids on the list are garbage? HEADUP was right, you have some serious issues you need to fix.

Issues you think you are a cartoon carter, I did not say anything about the other kids. If a 4 timer that only lost 3 matches in highschool, to kids outside of Kansas does not make the list then it is Garbage. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves he did an amazing feet and you are discrediting him, with your stupid list.

So those top five should be ashamed of themselves? Every post that you have made on here has shown that you are avoiding the real issue. It's not how great of a career that Colt has had. That is undeniable. It is HOW HE COMPARES to the FF. List the accomplishments and then add them up. These matches below happened when Colt was in HS. They were wrestled within 30 days after two of his state titles. Understand that I can say this while still applauding Colt for a historic career. He is a multi-sport phenom and the whole state is proud of him!


16U/120
1st - Jake Mainz Brawlers
2nd - Colt Rogers Smith County
3rd - Tyler Davis McPherson
4th - Justin Rose Emporia
5th - Marcos Magallanes Liberal
6th - Tyler White Silver Lake


16U/135
1st - Beau Hentzen of Brawlers
2nd - Nick Hockett of Cherryvale
3rd - Colt Rogers of Smith County
4th - Trevor Oliver of Osborne
5th - Cody Shavlik of Panther Elite
6th - Sal Tovar of Emporia Kids

I am talking about you, not the kids, the kids did not make this stupid list you did, You should be ashamed of yourself. You are justifying yourself by bringing up kids wrestling stats to show he lost as a freshmen in kids wrestling. This is High School not kids wrestling, One of your Fab 5 lost 9 matches his freshman year, Colt went undefeated!!!! and only lost 3 matches in 4 years. You discredited his accomplishments by not putting him on the list. So in my opinion your list is garbage.

Lets compare Smith Centers schedule to the schools of the fab five. Maybe that is why Chief is using results from kids wrestling because he saw better competition at kids state than he did at his own state. The most recognizable high school opponent he beat would be Collin Hase.

I am talking about you, not the kids, the kids did not make this stupid list you did, You should be ashamed of yourself. You are justifying yourself by bringing up kids wrestling stats to show he lost as a freshmen in kids wrestling. This is High School not kids wrestling, One of your Fab 5 lost 9 matches his freshman year, Colt went undefeated!!!! and only lost 3 matches in 4 years. You discredited his accomplishments by not putting him on the list. So in my opinion your list is garbage.

Hasn't this horse been beat to death?

Yes he has.

What were the credentials of the kids that placed above him at kids' state? Hentzen, Mainz, and Hocket were all tough kids. Just curious how they did in their respective classes in HS that year.

well Hase just became an all american so put him on the list.

You CLAIM that Colt should be on the list and that SOMEONE on that list needs to be OFF. You just have no idea who. It's getting old.....and sad.

According to one of my sources Ryne Cokeley has a win over the NE kid that Colt lost too.

Chief,

I certainly do not want to start another big scene, but I guess we have a few months. What about Daniel Deshazer? Where does he fit into these discussions of Kansas' elite? I just read the 100 win thread of his high school record of 102 and 3 with 2 state championships and a runner up.

I do not know much about his national tournament history, but I am familiar with his impressive USAW kids credentials.

Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Signed,
Sleepless in Seattle

SiS,

He was on the original 15 list and made the list of 10. I hope to see him run the table again next year. He should make the FF in 2011.

You cannot compare kid's state to high school state in anyway... it's usually 3 weeks after High School in which most athletes train to peak at the end of February not March, and also most athletes begin playing other sports and only practice an hour or two, 2 or 3 times a week instead of everyday for 2 or 3 hours.

It is not apples to apples. A former roommate of mine wrestled in the senior classic which is the same weekend as kid's state (or close too) and he said he basically quit training after wrestling was over, he was a 1x Champ & 2x Runner-up and he basically said he didn't care what happened in the classic, it was just for fun and that it meant nothing. Probably a lot of mentalities like that out there would be my guess.

I understand that, but he's won 2 high school state championships and been a runner up to a 42 and 1 Chaz Lawrence the other year.

Different or not, you cannot completely ignore 10 in a row kids state championship.

Like I said, I know they are different, but he's won both kinds. More than once.

Ok, wow, this has gone way bad which I know was not intended.

I love the Fab 5 list and I love the All Class rankings. They are really entertaining and I love entertainment especially when it is free. I would never want to see them outlawed. Also though, I would never want to see them used in a derogatory manner, especially to the "kids", which they have been in the past and are presently. I would never say the lists are garbage, but I do understand sometimes when people do not agree with them and get offended or defensive as I have myself.

First off, Congratulations Colt Rogers and family and Smith Center program. What an amazing career you have had. I enjoyed watching you wrestle at the Manhattan duals and you were everything they said you were Colt.

Secondly, thanks Chief. I love your work and I really appreciate your time and efforts. I really enjoyed meeting you and your family at state and talking to you. Job well done, keep up the good work.

As a 4 timer, I can't see any way that Rogers could not be on the Fab 5 list.....except that it is already filled with 5 "Fabulous" wrestlers (sorry Doug, I had to say it). It is apparently a bad year to be a 4 timer, I guess timing is everything. Well maybe not everything, but in this instance a factor and surely it is never a bad time to be a 4 timer.

I would certainly hope that Colt is not not on the list because of the two losses at Kid's "State". I mean come on. I do not like it when Kid's State is used to punish kids and in a way, it is with regard to the Fab 5 and the All Class. I went through that before the season with the first installation of the All Class list. Winning Kid's State is an honor but we all need to accept the fact that Kid's "State" is not STATE. It is nice to wrestle kids from other classes in a "state" setting and make some degree of comparison but it is not STATE. Kid's may not be in top shape for kid's and/or their focus and intesity is not the same. I don't think you can compare them. Kid's use it to get extra competition and work on their skills and "mat" experience and savy. As I said earlier in the season, as a head coach I have had kids that won STATE and did not win Kid's State and I have had kids that won Kid's State and did not win STATE. I have even had some that won both. And many that won neither. But I can tell you with certainty, they all had one thing in common and that is they would have much rather won STATE than Kid's State. College recruiters don't ask how many times you won Kid's State. In college programs when the publish state champion they don't mean Kid's State. When people on the street say "did you win state", they mean STATE. Everybody in and out of the wrestling circle , when they say "did you win state", we all know what they mean. I guess you could say, "well I didn't win STATE, but I won Kid's State" and they would look at you strangely and say.....ok. Kid's State should not be used to punish wrestlers ever. But does it really matter? Not really, unless Chief is going to produce a Fab 5 shirt as he did with the All Class list. Then it would definitely matter to me. It is Chief's list though and he has set the criteria. It is what it is.

I really, in all honesty, after great thought and consideration, think that, Colt should be on the list. But I wouldn't know where to start as far as who to bump. Could you really bump anyone? No, not really. We could, for this year only, because of extenuating circumstances, make a revision and change the Fab 5 to the Super 6 or 6 Shooters or better yet the Spectacular 6 and then I could call a fabulous wrestler a spectacular wrestler instead because that's a cool word too and that would make Doug happy. So without further ado, I proclaim to all the new and improved:

Spectacular 6
Colt Rogers
Cade Blair
Ryne Cokeley
Parker Madl
Taylor Moeder
Chase Nitcher

If Chief can make a list, I can too.

And I promise you that I am being completely sincere about this with the greatest degree of respect to Colt Rogers and all intereted parties, Colt Rogers deserves no less than that.

And now I can hopefully focus my attention on the All Class list because you know I got something to say about that, just not time right now.

Good to see you chime in again X. The Spectacular 6! I like it!

P.S. As an explanation, Colt's losses at kids state were never used against him. They were only mentioned as a response to the multiple claims that he never lost to a Kansas kid.

Chief,

I was responding to Alex's post, which I did not fully understand by the way, not yours.

I think we confused each other. I was just stating that people were saying he never lost to a Kansas kid, I guess I wasn't clear, he never lost to a Kansas kid during the High School season.

On my former roomate, he's my age so he wouldn't have wrestled anyone Colt has wrestled.

I thought you were referring to my comment about Daniel Deshazer's 10 kids championships.

i thought you were commenting on me commenting about that other comment made by that guy with the most ridiculous comment.

I was, but then I changed my other mind and didn't.

XGHSWC,
Could one not argue that kids state could actually be harder then STATE due to the fact that it could combine all the classes?
6A 5A 4A and 321A
A chance for multiple STATE champions to be in one bracket to create one true KIDS STATE CHAMPION???

again did colt have an awesome career...yes. but who do you take off the list to put colt on it....i think the heads up one you would have to take off would be taylor moeder...would colt have beet him. no and i would of love to have seen that match but it never happened......taylor by major or fall....just my thaughts.

One could, and quite effectively!

You could argue about anything that you wanted to.
Did you not read my entire post and consider what I said?
I said, twice now, in 20 years as a head coach, I have had kids that won Kid's State but not STATE, kids that have won STATE but not Kid's State, kids that have won both and kids that have won neither. That right there should answer your question. Sometimes it's harder. But sometimes it's not. I have seen some monster brackets at Kid's State and I have seen some monster brackets at STATE. It depends on the year and the weight just like everything else in wrestling. The point was that STATE, although not always harder, is considered more important and the fact that every kid I have ever coached would have rather won STATE than Kid's State verifies that. And that most Kid's are not going to apply themselves for Kid's State as much as they would for the "real" STATE. Therefore, I do not believe that Kid's State performance should be used to "punish" kids in terms of their credibility with regard to entertaining things like the Fab 5, the All Class rankings, etc. particularly with regard to the Colt Rogers "situation". Chief said that was not a factor and I am happy with that. Yes, A REAL GRAND STATE would solve all of our problems, wouldn't it, so they say. But would it really? Probably not. We may never know. But thanks for the unwarranted constructive criticism. And have a great day!

Wrong Chief. Can't believe you went there with me.
My son did not place last year as a freshman at STATE, one win short. He then went to Kid's State in 16U and took 2nd defeating the 3A STATE runnerup in the semi's. So I know he wouldn't agree. And I have seen that 100 times, lots of kids that didn't place at STATE that placed a month later at Kid's State. So I know they wouldn't agree either. Kid's State was a consolation prize so to speak. But again refer to my previous post.
You could argue, but certainly not EFFECTIVELY. But have a great day!

16 and under in the heavier weights has typically been easier at kids than in high school because you lose the juniors and seniors that tend to dominate those weights in high school.

Lighter weights at 16 and under are often tougher than high school and become more like a grand state as you get the toughest from all of the high school classifications, most of which are underclassmen.

But that was when it was just 16U
Now that there is a true HS division the possibilities are endless.
As long as Sr. Nationals are on a different weekend KIDS STATE could really tell us who the true All Class and Fab 5 are!
STATE does not offer that!

Now I agree that most colleges look at the HS record but over time KIDS STATE could answer alot of questions and maybe start to draw the colleges attention!

It goes both ways many times. In Bo's weight at kids last year there was a 3a state runner up that got 4th at kids districts behind kids that did not even place at kids state.

I do believe that a HS state title means more to the kids. There are cases where state kids brackets are harder and sometimes where HS brackets are harder. It just depends on who stays out after HS and wrestles kids. I do know the same dedication and passion is not put into the kids finale after they come off a tough HS season. Some kids move up weights, some don't. Some kids care about it some don't. Bo is not even wrestling kids this year for the first time since he was 5, as he said last year. "kids just isn't the same for me after I give everything I got to a HS season." "My goals are different." He is just going to take a break for a month then wrestle some freestyle.

Just one persons perspective. Not right or wrong.

Will they ever be on a different weekend?
I wouldn't count on a Grand State enviroment even with the new division. You will still have two and three sport athletes going off to represent their schools in a spring sport. Also, you have some that are just worn out after a long, tough high school season and want some rest before FS/GR starts, etc.
I wouldn't bet against some type of national folkstyle tournament jumping in against our qualifying series at some point in the future. That could and would take some of our talent elsewhere just like Brute did that first year.

For many of our kids who play a spring sport such as baseball, the kids wrestling season is not their number one priority and their shape is not nearly what it is during the last few weeks of the high school season. When I attended (as a spectator only, KSHSAA!) the kids state championship series, I saw a lot of high school kids wrestling 3 or 4 weight classes too heavy and in average wrestling shape at best.

Just my observationPr

I feel it is the appropriate time to respond. I am a regular reader, but first and last time poster. First off, it is a shame people get on forums like this, critisizing kids while hiding behind screen names. First lets address Mr. Cokleys concern over Smith Centers strength of schedule. As by all his previous posts, Norton is the only 321A school that steps up. Wresting small Nebraska and Colorado schools will not cut it. I believe that to be an accurate reflection of his posts. If I remember correctly, Smith Center has dualed Godddard, Blue Springs, Abilene, Mannhattan, Kearney Neb, Grand Island High, Montana Sky View.
Goddard 2009, 2010 6A State Champs
Blue Spings- i thought they were a large class Missouri power
Grand Island- 2009, 2010 Class A state champs, state record team points scored.
Kearney-2010 Class A state Rummer up
Abilene-2009-2010 4A top 5

Tounament Schedule includes Colby, Clay Center, Abilene, Scott City which I believe is 3 of the top teams in 4A in 2009,and and 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th place teams in 4A in 2010.

Before we go further, this is not a plea for being placed on the Fab Five, I could care less about the Chiefs lists. Just an attempt to get Will's shorts out of a wad. I know of no one from Smith Center or affilitaed with SC thats has been on here claiming Colt is better than anyone on the FF. I mean if we hired a world class wrestler to train us, spent10-11 months wrestling,only focused on ONE SPORT, SHOULDN'T YOU BE BETTER, if not, then there would be serious problem. As far as someone on the FF beating 8 state champs. Lets see.

Colt Wins over SC


Houlden - Goddard 2nd 2009, 1st 2010
Seibel- Salina South 1st 2010
Campbell-Oakley 1st 2010
Keiswetter, K-NOrton 1st 2010
Keiswetter, L -Norton 1st 2010
Haas- Silver lake 2 x state champ
Tovar- Emporia 1st
Peters -Augusta 1st
Madl BV 2x state Champ?
Weigel Plainville 1st 2009
Zahorsky-Pburg/silver lake Nebraska Camp all star match
Don't count Kash Biddle 1st 2010, not head to head, Colt just beat the kid from Penn. that beat Kash, Brute
Don't count Devon Frye- Eureka former sc, cause that was not head to head, just was in bracket.

As for his losses at kids, Mainze was his opponent in the finals two years prior to the lose. Colt controlled that match from start to finsih. I felt the rematch was a match he overlooked and took for granted. I believe that was a good lesson for him, no matter who you wrestle, you must be mentally ready.. As for the loss to Hentzen, that was at 135 two years ago. What weight did he wrestle this year? 130 Hentzen looked like somebody cutting from around 145-150, I know Colt weighed 128 when we got home from state. I believe the finalsts at 130 were Campbell and Hood, which Hood won in a close match. Colt pinned and Teched Jace the previous year. He did however get the chance to beat Tovar twice during State series.

I doubt some on the FF know what it is like to finish a 13 game schedule, have your body beat to hell, get seven practices, and step on the mat and beat the likes of Houlden and Strauss, as well as losing a two point match to Greco of Blue Springs. Will indicates we wrestle no one, but isn't Strauss the opponent Ryne faced in his Championship match. I guess we really can't count that as a True State Championship as his opponent does not really qualify as worthy. Colt beat Strauss twice last year, first time at Abeline duals tournament, then at Beloit by Fall. I sure he was a much better opponent when he wrestled Ryne, just not when he wrestled Colt.

As for seeking out the best competition by bumping up to get better competition. What happens to Taylor or Ryne's teammates when they bump up. Does everyone have to bump up, or the teammate above just have to sit out and watch. How does that fit into the team concept. Is seeking out the toughest tournaments in the state what is best for the team. What if your TEAM is young and inexperienced, nothng like a good butt kicking for most of the TEAM so that a few will benefit.

As for choices, WIll is right on. It is OUR choice to compete in three sports. Our choice to do as we choose, no matter how disappointing it may be to him. As someone said, in an earlier post, comparing big schools to small sschools is like comparing appples to oranges. If small school athletes chose to specialize then other programs would suffer, they sure would not be of the quality that the NEW YORK TIMES would want to write a book about. I can not speak for other small school wrestlers, but when wrestling is over, Track starts, if we go to BRUTE or do kids, that means we may get down on the mat twice a week AFTER a two hour track pracitce, and roll around for 30 minutes. I doubt the two Rempes or McCall saw the mat after wrestling season ended until they wrestled in the Senior Classic.

I feel bad for others, who have been brow beat, for simply stating their opinion on the matter, so much for freedom of speech, lest you be taken to the wood shed and put in your place.

I guess what REALLY Matters is, neither COLT nor I are concerned to much about the naysayers. It is what it is, HE IS A 4 TIME STATE CHAMP, the fourth in 321A. I guess will keep him!

MIKE ROGERS

Well since you are naming the state champs that colt has beaten over his career then i guess i would be happy to research the state champs that moeder has beaten over his high school career. Because as it says in Quagmires post those victories over 8 State champs came from ONLY THIS HIGH SCHOOL SEASON. With the strength of St James schedule I'm sure that there are numerous victories moeder has over mutiple state placers and runner ups also.

Actually this is a rediculous topic, plus this and other topics such as 654321A All decade teams. How do you determine if this year's 4 time could beat a 4 timer from 11 years ago. Wrestling is a here and now sport. That was then and now is now. Chief should delete this topic and not do it next year. Too many airheads and supposed experts making comments they can not back up. All they are are opions--and we all have them.

Thank goodness the HS seson is over. Now if we can just call an end to the "howevers" and the "buts" it will have been another great year.

Colt did not make the list and it is of no concern to his family. I say let's just drop it and do not continue to tarnish what this kid has done for KS sports.
We should just thank all of these boys and their families for their dedication and hard work and let it go.
Does he deserve to be on the list...
IDK Ask Chief
Its his list. Either make your own list or just leave well enough alone.
Congrats to Colt and Thank You for giving us years of wrestling excitement.
Good Luck to you.

WOW!! Great post Mike. I would definitely like to say congratulations to Colt on another great season and 4 state titles. He's a phenomenal wrestler and a fine young man, aside from the plethora of goofy hats that are worn. (haha just joking) It's pathetic that some are trying to take away from such a great accomplishment. Colt shouldn't even pay attention to it. It's the opinion of one person that doesn't even know him or any of the other smaller school kids. I'm sure Schumacher from TMP will be dealing with the same thing in two years. Good luck to Colt with all his future endeavors.

Incredible. After compiling rankings for the entire state, I recognize those that I believe are the top 5 wrestlers in our state. By doing that, in some contorted way it is "trying to take away" a wrestlers accomplishments. Have we really slid down the slippery slope that far? We can't understand that honoring someone does not always have to imply that someone is harmed?

Maybe schools should change their grades to "Pass" and "Almost passed and you tried so hard, good job".

I'm telling you Chief you would catch less slack with a #1 pound for pound. You watered it down, and everyone wanted to be a part of it. Make it just one, and you will still have complainers, but no one will feel slighted. Lists are to long. There needs to be only one. My vote would be.....Parker Madl

Chad,

Don't say it! Please, I'm begging you.

Too late.

The key phrase here is "that I believe are the top 5". It's Chief's list. He can put whoever he wants on it. For those of us who have actually watched Colt wrestle for the past 4 years, he would make all of our lists.

Goodland has wrestled both 4A and 3,2,1A since I have been an assistant coach here and both classes have their tough wrestlers. I have had the pleasure to watch several of the wrestlers on the list, VC and Goodland have had some close duals at the Colby Dual tournament. I believe that Colt is one of the best I have seen wrestle and I know from listening to other wrestlers, he is considered a stud amongst his peers. Hats off to his many great accomplishments as an athlete in our great state and I wish him all of the luck in the future.
In response to the demands on many small school athletes, I do know that many of our kids are doing both kids wrestling and track, my son spends four hours a night, 3 times a week practicing for the two sports. At many of the small schools out here in Northwestern Kansas, we ask our young student athletes to fill many roles and often to be three sport athletes. I am proud of the effort our kids give us and the sacrifices they make for their school and community.

I do have opinions on this but will keep them to myself to avoid the beating that would follow..However I do feel this is earned...
Mike, HATS OFF TO YOU FOR HAVING YOUR SON'S BACK!!!! I know that because of the HEART, WORK ETHIC, AND WILL TO WIN that Colt has, he has been the victim of a bunch of idiots who love to hate the winner!!
Wait, I do have an opinion....COLT ROGERS is a winner in every sense of the word....I don't give $*#* about what size of school your from, if you can leave High School with 3 State Football Championships (and 1 loss!!) as a four year starter, 4 State Wrestling Championships, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a State Track Individual Championship, you deserve some respect and not to be belittled by anyone. You are an all around ATHLETE, not JUST a wrestler. I am not from Smith Center but have been treated to four years of top notch and classy entertainment by Colt and his teammates and to them I say thanks for letting me get my money's worth. 1000's of kids in this state would give an arm and a leg to experience what you have achieved.
Leave the kid alone for heavens sake. What did he do to you anyway? Other than maybe put a whoopin on your kid or stole his thunder. Thanks for listening....now let me put my sparring pads on before you start finding fault with my kid and beating me down.

Lets just keep making lists and printing T-shirts it seems to be working out fine! Seriously I believe this forum is misused when we digress into discussions about who’s tougher then who!, or who deserves this or that (real or imaginary) honor. The kids earn their awards on the mat at the end of the year as it should be! Now because of the different classifications we may not see the match-ups we would like to, but it is what it is, and the pointless arguments over pointless lists benefits no one.

Let's blame it on the shirt! Discussions about who's tougher than who are not for talk forums? What?

****The 2nd Annual FAB FIVE is.....****

In alphabetical order.

2010 - FAB FIVE:

Cade Blair - VC
Ryne Cokeley - SJA
Parker Madl - BV
Taylor Moeder - SJA
Chase Nitcher - VC



1st FAB FIVE - 2009

Boaz Beard
Tyler Caldwell
Kyle Detmer
Kendric Maple
CJ Napier

here's my take, the fab 5 are solid, but rogers is one on the most decorated athletes in ks state history. of all the 4x champs, how many have been key contributors to their 3x football championship teams? i know a couple of years back colgan high school in pittsburg was fball,bball, baseball state champs in one year, may have happened twice, other than that colt has to be the most decorated. i know romero cotton was 4x in fb and wrestling, but were they undefeated for four years?

I agree! As we see, you can't explain some kid being named to these imaginary lists without detracting from some other kid's accomplishments.

By the way, to translate for Mr. Cokely and you other big school eastern kansas guys, I think what Mr. Rogers was saying (in a very nice way) was to kiss his (and Colt's) 4 time state winning, football championship winning, western kansas a_s.

And as a note, Mr. Rogers, well said.

I don't know enough about these kids to comment on whether colt should be considered one of the top 5 wrestlers in kansas or not but people who keep saying that he is getting disrespect i don't quite understand. it seems to me that some people think he is the 3rd or 4th best wrestler in the state while others think he is maybe 6th or 7th. that's not a disrespectful opinion at all. no one has any doubt that colt rogers had an amazing wrestling career that was one part of an amazing athletic career. now whether he is the 5th best wrestler in the state or the 6th is debatable; but just because someone says he's 6th does not mean they disrespect him.

Maybe this should be the list:

1. Every wrestler in the state of Kansas.

wrestler 07
Upon me sticking up for a kid I have NEVER met before (Colt) I was bombarded with Pms, This is one of them.

"HE DIDNT WRESTLE ANYONE. Colt rogers did not wrestle one quality kid this year. Look at the FAB fives credentials. COlt rogers cannot even come close to comparing. He is a very overrated wrestler and if you had any common sense you would realize that he's not on the same level as the wrestlers on the list. I don't even think colt steps on a mat in the summer. Colt was very dominate as a freshman...but he has not improved any over his career. Deep down you know your completely wrong and you need to get over yourself. 321a is not what it used to be."

I hope some of you see why I reacted the way I did. This was by far the worst one I got. But somehow these big schools think they are the best.

The guy that posted that better not say a word I have half a mind to tell eveyone the pricks name.

i would agree that saying he is overrated is disrespectful, or saying he hasn't wrestled anyone is too. i'm just saying that i think chief is saying that he's maybe the 6th or 7th best in the state...definitely top 10. that's not disrespectful.

yes the person who pm'd you was not respectful of him and is not giving him the credit he deserves.

Wow, I thought I was being supportive of Colt and I had NO idea that I was going to set this tirade off.

First off, I selected Colt and Danny on my nominees list for Fab 5.

Colt's wins...
Houlden - Goddard 2nd 2009, 1st 2010
Seibel- Salina South 1st 2010
Campbell-Oakley 1st 2010
Keiswetter, K-NOrton 1st 2010
Keiswetter, L -Norton 1st 2010
Haas- Silver lake 2 x state champ
Tovar- Emporia 1st
Peters -Augusta 1st
Madl BV 2x state Champ?
Weigel Plainville 1st 2009
Zahorsky-Pburg/silver lake Nebraska Camp all star match
Don't count Kash Biddle 1st 2010, not head to head, Colt just beat the kid from Penn. that beat Kash, Brute
Don't count Devon Frye- Eureka former sc, cause that was not head to head, just was in bracket.

How many of these guys were state champs when Colt wrestled them???? Seriously, do you want to get into a who have you wrestled and beaten contest? Ryne has two wins over Joe Colon who just won the NJCAA National tournament. He has a win over Bryce Gretch and the guy from Nebraska that beat Colt last year. I could spend a few hours researching Ryne's opponents for the past four years just like you have done. Heck in the past 12 months he has beaten Ian Fisher OK 4xer twice, Roger Wildmo MI state finalist multi times, Perryman VA state champ, McCully WY undefeated state champ who pinned his way through the finals, to name a few. Heck, while Colt was rushing for 2000 yards he was wrestling 30 plus preseason matches. His choice. Ryne pinned Courtney Strauss so I am not sure what your point was there. At regionals and state you wrestle who is there. The other 11.5 months of the year you can go out and find the best. Ryne, Taylor, and Parker have wrestled more nationally ranked guys than Colt has wrestled Kansas state ranked guys.

I stood up for your son and you decided to start this crap?? If so, Ryne beat Beau Hentzen a few months after he beat Colt, 10-1. You make a case for weight difference but Colt was listed at 145 for football and wrestled 130?? If you sign up for a weight class you wrestle and you win or lose.

Strength of schedule...
Let me be more specific. SC does NOT compete in any of the five toughest weight class bracketed tournaments in Kansas.
Garden City, Newton, Basehor-Linwood, Derby, Eudora or BVNW. When you wrestle in dual team tournaments you may not even get a match up of the two best individuals in a weight class. It is difficult to measure when there are no head to head match ups. I believe someone stated that the smaller schools have NOT changed up their schedules in years. It is very subjective to have to figure out who is best without a head to head encounter.
1. Taylor Moeder - 11 - SJA - 4A
2. Colt Rogers - 12 - SC - 321A
3. Kyle Johnson - 11 - COL - 4A
4. Tyson Schmidtberger - 12 - RUS - 4A
5. Brandon Charbonneau - 10 - EMP - 5A
6. Lane Greenlee - 11 - GC - 6A
7. Mario Corado - 11 - PT - 5A
8. Dalton Davis - 11 - LA - 321A
9. Ky Biddle - 10 - CB - 321A
10. Billy Broeckelman - 11 - NO - 321A

Taylor wrestled or was in a bracket with 3,4,5,7 and should have been with 6 if the weather wouldn't have gotten in the way. Taylor wrestled 8 state champions THIS year. Guys who won state THIS YEAR.

Colt beat Parker when Parker didn't have a hair on his body other than on top of his head. Colt matured early. Parker would like a rematch today! Since then Parker has beaten Kendrick Sanders FL, Steven Kelly CO, Robby Fisher (the only guy to beat Destin McCauley in HS) MN, Draper OK 2xer, to name a few.

Taylor went to SUPER 32 and the Oklahoma Open (beating Basks and Pierce who both won state this year) while Colt was playing football. Taylor's choice. Nothing wrong with Colt's choices as they are his preferences.

I am just a little confused and frankly pissed off that you have to go calling out Taylor and Ryne for moving weight classes. That is our coach's decision. Two years ago SJA took their first wrestler to the state tournament. This year we took seven and won our regional. Whatever we are doing it must be working.

I applauded Colt's other athletic successes and I understand the toll it takes on his body. (You might want to do some research and watch the HBO bit on repetitive head injuries and the NFL brain bank. I don't want my boys to play football) You poke fun at our decision to seek the best training possible. That just sounds a little jealous. You played D1 football and you are passing down those skills to your boys. Again, your choice. We chose to put all of our eggs in the wrestling basket. Nothing wrong with either decision in my book. Life is about choices and you can't do everything.

If your team isn't as experienced then you split them up. You don't pull the best down to make the inexperienced guys feel better. You figure out a way to pull the bottom up not push the top down!

I am not going to any wood shed and you are not putting me anywhere. I simply stated the facts and supported your son's athletic endeavors and choices only to find you attacking my son, Taylor Moeder, and Saint James' program. I grew up in western Kansas and I completely understand your point as well as community pride and the need for athletes in all programs. I CHOSE not to live in that type of environment. My son CHOSE to excel in wrestling and forgo baseball, soccer, track etc. I am happy for SC, their football program, the book, the accolades, etc. I am not jealous and I am dang sure not envious.

My shorts were never in a wad. I stick by my statements that 321A is not as tough as it once was and if they want to be measured then attend the tournaments where they can wrestle the ranked Kansas wrestlers. No one is stopping Colt, Jace, Danny, or any of the other excellent 321A wrestlers from going to Super 32, USA Nationals, Fargo, NHSCA Nationals, or even to Southern Plains. Go beat somebody your not supposed to beat and then you can complain.

Are you telling me Colt beat Madl?

I bet Colt Rogers is laughing at you guys right now. Let it go!

No! keep it going, I can’t wait till the announcement of the fantastic four!

the sensational 6
the significant 7
the elite 8
the nasty 9
the tantilizing 10
the electric 11
the dirty dozen 12
the bestest baker's dozen 13
the filthy 14
the fantasy 15
the satirical 16
the insignificant 17
the dirty dozen and a half 18
the numerous 19
the totally too many numbers to be impressive 20
the whole point is, anyone can make a list and anyone can argue for or against that list. if you don't like the list make your own. it's not like this is the ncaa and we vote on championships, or come up with some fantasy formula, and pick a champ, it wrestling not the bcs. if the list was bigger colt would be on it. he is not. make your own list, the best 3 sport athlete in kansas state history i don't know.
the i like will cokeley list
the i can't stand will cokeley list
the

Very good post Will! Kind of hard to argue with the facts.

Does this mean you aren't transferring Konner to Saint James next year?

Would you guys take him?

Are you telling me Colt beat Madl? Chief this one was for you?

Dude this is a dead topic

Yes. Four years ago at Brute at 112 I believe. Colt lost to Alan Waters in the final.

Which begs the question. . . . How many state titles did Alan Waters have?

http://www.themat.com/bios.php?page=showkidbio&ContactID=2188

4

Wow. What state was he from and what was the score when Colt wrestled him? Thanks.

Alan Waters is from Missouri.

From his bio, He loves that Shrimp Alfredo, but who doesn't:


Freestyle Achievements: 2x National Schooboy duel team

Greco-Roman Achievements: 2x National Schoolboy Duel Team

Folkstyle Achievements: USA Dominator 5x State Champ; 3x USA All-American; 2x USA Natioal Runner-up

Favorite Wrestler: Tony Purler
Favorite Sport: Wrestling
Favorite Athlete: Matt Hughes
Favorite Movie: Saw, Jackie Chan
Favorite Food: Shrimp alfredo
Favorite Drink: Gatorade
Favorite TVShow: Fear Factor
Favorite Cartoon:
Favorite Video Game: Madden
Who Inspires your to Wrestle: Dad
When I grow I want to:
My Goals: 4 time High School Missouri state champion

The significant point is that Parker Madl was NOT a state champion at that time weighing just 112lbs. Parker wrestled 171lbs this year while Colt wrestled 130 and Alan was a light 125lber.

Alan is a familiar foe to many Eastern Kansas wrestlers. He has beaten Ryne, Sharky Slyter, and just about everyone else he has wrestled during the past four years. He is a great technician and is very mentally strong. When he won his GR National Championship in Fargo I saw him come back from losing the first period and being down 3-0 in the 2nd with 30 seconds to go. He is fearless!

Impressive. Thank you gentlemen. I see he went to Park Hill. They kicked a-- back when I was wrestling in the early 80's.

Is he wrestling in college now?

I believe he is a senior this year if he meet up with Colt Rogers at Brute since it is bracketed by high school class.

dwelsh - Which begs the question. . . . How many state titles did Alan Waters have?
dwelsh - "Wow. What state was he from and what was the score when Colt wrestled him? Thanks."
dwelsh - "Is he wrestling in college now?"

Really? Are you for real? You don't know who Alan Waters is? Did I miss an inside joke here........?

Why the he-- would I ask questions about him if I did not know who he was/is? I haven't lived in MO in over 18 years now!

What is your problem?

Can you name every four time state champ that borders the state of KS?

I understand both sides points ive personally met both wrestlers and i agree with facts from both sides. I would of like to see Colt get the knod this year no souly because i think hes better then Ryne or Taylor but that it was his Sr. Year joining a groupe of men that includes such likes as Zach Roberson, Bo Maynes, Clay Madden sorry had to throw a 3-2-1 a wouldnt want to get slammed. I understand the need for small schools to have every one possible compeat but its hard for people to show alot of respect for smaller school thus the fact that not to many of them go to the next level or seak out summer comp. I see Mr Coekleys view and Mr Rogers if you wanna say so on so " Higher a trainer and train for 10-11 months" I guess that just how serious some people are about the sport and i aploud them for such deducation but also to the parents of those wrestling because trust me first hand its neither cheap or relaxing in any way but the love for the sport fuels that fire for such wrestlers as Ryne, Taylor, Parker.How ever Mr Rogers if this was a track / football talk forum Colt would prolly be number 1. But shame on you for coming into a wrestling talk forum and dogging kids that LOVE to wrestler no matter what month it is!!!!!!

Here is this years match with Alan Waters and Cody Brewer. Remember while you are watching that Brewer is a two time State champ and was the outstanding wrestler at this years Bobcat Classic dominating Symon Seaton in the Finals. Physically Waters looks like he should be on the debate team but infact they don't come any tougher. He always beat Nathan Furches and Sharky Slyter as far as I know!

http://www.missouriwrestling.com/videos/ph125.php

1. He wasn't "dogging" anybody. He was defending his son.

2. Learn to spell

He could have easily defended his son without mentioning any other wrestlers. The swipe he took at Saint James for moving wrestlers to different weight classes had NOTHING to do with defending his son and was quite uncalled for. I took it as a personal attack that was out of character and had more to do with bashing others than defending his son.

Thanks for the post USA Wrestler.

Will, I like you...but most of the stuff you say on this forum could be taken as a personal attack by someone.

He wasn't saying it was wrong to move them up, he was saying that they don't move up very often because they don't want the kid above them to have to sit there and watch without a match. Kale Newell was at 135 this year. Would you bump a kid of that caliber so your 130 lb kid could have a tough match instead?

It's hard to sit a kid so your star can get a tough match. Right or wrong it's tough to tell a kid that worked his ass off all week that he can't wrestle because your best kid wants a better match. Now in a dual...not so much of a problem. Usually you can get the other coach to agree to wrestle exhibition with the other kid. Most of the time where we see tough competition is at tournaments though, and it's hard to sit a kid for a whole tournament when he needs that tournament to get better.

Call me crazy, but I don't think it was a personal attack. I think you may have read into it the wrong way because he started out his post saying that you had your pants in a wad.

what about deshazer from heights??he's a beast, he'll get both of them i think

What was your point of that video. I watched it expecting to see this Waters kid work our Kansas boy. But that was not the case I could not tell which kid was which?

Lucas ... the clip was of two Missouri lads scrapping!! Waters who is now a 4-timer and Brewer who will be going for his fourth next season (both multi-time Fargo AA's)!!

... and Waters is wearing the singlet that has PH on it and Brewer is wearing the Oak Park one!!

For the last time, I am not trying to diminish the accomplishmets of the Fab Five. As I told the Chief, I would not suggest Colt be over anyone in the FF, I would not go as far as saying he is even in the Top 10 or 20. Those young men have gone above and beyond and deserve their honors. I do take exception in the notion that we have not wrestled anyone and only Norton has stepped up. As Will stated, wrestling small Nebraska and Colorado schools is not going to cut it. I was guessing that is why we added Goddard, Blue Springs, Grand Island High, Abielne, Manhattan, Kearney High and others to or dual tournament schedule the last two years, and have always competed against Colby, Clay Center, Abielne who have been the best of the best in 4a for many years. If it is not every 321A school that is not cutting it, then by all means, tell us specifically which ones are not, just so we all know.

As for not beating any current state champions, I guess if they were state champions that would mean Colt would not have been, as many on that list he faced in State.

For Mr. Welsh, the Watters match was lost in overtime, we were up 2-0 and taking him to his back with a tilt, when he "hollered" and the ref stopped the match. I feel pretty confident we would have won if not for that.

The one thing I have not seen made mention of in all this is money. Wrestling is expensive, I guess each person has to decide how much they are willing to put into it. Many of the other National wrestling things just interfere with track in the spring and Football camp usually coincides with Fargo. I guess it boils down to sense of loyalty to teammates and other coaches for us.

The main reason for this post is to let everyone know how much respect I have for Parker Madl and his father. I have a feeling that something is being made out of the mention of that match. I had a great conversation with his father after that match and have nothing but respect for the two of them. I certainly would not want to wrestle him now, he has grown into a beast..

Parker, I enjoyed the pictures of that Monster Buck.

Well i guess this is just how you want to interpret Mr Campbell because i don't know if you caught were my personal option was that Colt got the nod for the group the young man had joined this year. And please don't dog on my spelling because all you were doing was taking away my post! I am sorry that sometimes on my Iphone i do not catch such small mistakes! :P
YES I would like to see colt get the nod but however the criteria plays a factor in everything so either get to the big tournaments or summers activities or don’t get upset over post however You did take a shot at me for my spelling hope everything in this is spelled correct wouldn't want Demolish your Education in any way shape or form. I was privileged enough to do summer wrestling and during my high school season i attended such tourneys as Derby, Garden City and was fortunate to win both tournaments. And to me it would be Demoralizing seeing a kid get a nod on something like this over you when you've worked your tell off.
I am not trying to Run Colt in the ground or bring Ryne on a pedestal. But it stating my option which in all honesty is Ryne has more criteria over him but joining a 4xer group is Badass a groupe that Ryne himself should join next year his Fr year run that had such studs as Slyter, Sparr, Weller,Rockhold was very impressive good luck to him next year and Colt as he goes on to play football.
But in all honesty Mr. Smith might not of caught it but when he said summer wrestlers should be better for training 10-11 months is somewhat a slam I smelled a little sarcasm.
However I will not hide behind a screen name my name is Howard Johnson if you need my cell to reach me just pm 

One thing I have noticed and that continuously amazes me about this forum is how many of the posters,(including the regulars) turn into English Teachers when a post is objectionable to them.
The posts that oppose their view point are immediately scoured for spelling, grammar, and punctuation mistakes so the offending poster can be publicly humiliated! All the while the posts that agree with these guys are amazingly left upgraded?? A juvenile practice at best.

I do agree a lot of errors make a post hard to follow, but these grading sessions are clearly not motivated by the desire to be helpful.

dwelsh – Please accept my apologies. I did come off sounding like an ars. That was not my intention. It was intended to be a little innocent teasing. Sorry.

Hit, I understand. Apology accepted. Thank you. At least you didn't start a thread that offended a lot of refs at the state tourney finals (5/6a). That was not my intent either, so I understand. Take care.

PS:

It was fun learning about Waters. I hope he does well at MU. Some have PM'd me an expect him to be a possible 125 pound starter as a freshmen! Impressive! Hopefully he can be as successful as Maple, Caldwell and Napier have been this year as freshmen.

I feel all warm inside...

Interesting thread. Conjures up memories of arguments past.

On the one hand, the athlete who aspires towards greatness, or at least,to be associated with the elite athletes of his chosen athletic endeavor,will likely focus his exclusive talents and attention on that given sport - to the exclusion of all others. (I suspect this is more common in the "larger" schools)

That particular athlete's motivation could also be financial, such as to enhance his prospects to receive a necessary or helpful athletic scholarship(or in the case of a recent Maize graduate - to preserve the opportunity to take advantage of a lucrative professional baseball contract)

As often as not, his athleticism and/or talents would be very welcome in other athletic endeavors and would likely prove to be a welcome addition, should he decide to participate.

His parents, to the best of their abilities, will devote their considerable time, talents and otherwise lend their financial resources to their son's quest.

On the other hand, we have some steller, exceptionally talented and gifted, athletes who still choose to participate in several different athletic endeavors (Bell, from Wichita Bishop Carroll,immediately comes to mind) He endures the "risk of injury" (potentially impairing scholarship opportunities), perhaps allows his skills in his "best" sport to "idle" a bit, while he chooses to participate in several sports endeavors.

Which path is best?

I certainly would not deign to weigh in with an opinion on this issue. Take for example, Ryne Cokely. Ryne is presumably one of the better or best wrestlers in the state of Kansas, and certainly a known presence on the national stage. From comments I have read on this forum, Ryne has chosen "wrestling", as his passion and his preferred athletic endeavor. Ryne is fortunate to have the enviable support of his parents and the unquestionable desire,discipline and intestional fortitude to allow for successful competition at the highest level. Let's hope it serves him and his family well!

Simarly, we have a Colt Rogers - an equally amazing athlete, who decided, presumably, for his own reasons, to be a multi-sport competitor. And, from what I've read: what an amazing athlete he is! I'd venture a guess that Colt's parents (not unlike the Cokeley's) have made considerable investments of their time, talents and finances in their son's athletic endeavors.

I suppose my point is that the "Cokely's",the "Roger's", and all parent's who support the efforts of their children of our state should be applauded,commended, and perhaps exalted for the presumed investment(be it time, finances or otherwise) they have obviously made in the lives of their sons.

Call it a hunch: Colt and Ryne will be all-right. They have the enviable love and support of very involved parents!






Then we have the athlete who

Mr. Johnson (usawrestling),

I did see where you said Colt should get the nod. I was only replying to the part that you said "Shame on you for coming into a wrestling talk forum and dogging kids that LOVE to wrestler no matter what month it is." I didn't think it was his intention to dog on any wrestler. I don't think his comment about wrestling 10-11 months out of the year was a slam either. A kid that puts that kind of dedication into something should be better than his peers.

I just hope that when Ryne gets his 4th next year that people congratulate him on his success instead of making demeaning comments that belittle his outstanding accomplishment. (this is not directed toward you, but to those who have made such comments about Colt)

The spelling comment was a joke. I almost did a follow up post 5 seconds later so that noone would take that seriously. I guess i should have put a or a after it.

It is my belief that if you have to do that, then the sarcasm wasn't any good to start with. Leave it out and make them wonder, that is what I do!

Mr. Cambell I understand completely where you coming from I have to been taken to serious at times on this post board.

I understand that some people are bringing both wrestlers down to try and prove there point 2 fathers sticking up for there sons which they should not be criticized for cause we all know most Fathers for the most part would say, do , or act in any way to protect/defend there son’s in something they both feel strongly about. And ive seen on another post that Colt ceraintly holds the state record for takedowns break sharky slyter record if iam not mistaken.

These are the Facts iam stating on here
1. Colt is a 4xer with qualities wins over Hase which I believe gave Nathan Furches his first high school loss
2. Ryne is a 3xer with good win over to many to count because of him national success.
3. Cade a 3xer with maybe one of the biggest upsets for his first title over Crank in the Quarters
4. Chase prolly would of possibly been a 4xer if he didn’t have those dang keller brothers.lol.  just to point out said that in all joking matter.haha
5. And Taylor that has jumped leeps and bounds from joining the SJA in my personal option and cold bang with the best.

Now for my Option on the fab 5

I would have Rogers, Ryne, Caylor, Paker, Chase

1. Chase only two titles but his freshman and sophomore year I believed had the keller that became a sr national champ.
2. Caylor for being a 3xer in big weights which is an amazing feet and ive had the honor to have had serval wonderful battles with him.
3. Parker for that fact of his complete power of his weight as he has grown and beating Kendrick maples on a beautiful press is no feet that’s should be over looked
4. Ryne for his traveling and domination at some times with big dog of not only the state of Kansas wrestling but the nation of wrestling countrys state so forth. Speaks for itself.
5. Rogers for his 4th title and a humble young man which no matter what will always have those titles.

And back to you Mr. Cambell about your comment about you hope no body dogs Ryne next year if he is successful in winning his 4th title I read this talk form as much as the next person I he has been trash talked / slammed on here as much If not more then any other wrestler that’s been talked about which is a shame so iam sure there will be haters out there come next year but as in the same case as Colt I don’t think it with bother Ryne in any way because hel be able to look at those 4 4a state champion ship medals.

Just my thought sorry if I affend any body for leaving off your picks

I think I am attacking nearly every 321A AD who won't change the wrestling team' schedule! Smith Center and Norton do step out and wrestle a more difficult schedule but I would like to see more 321A teams attend the top 5 individual tournaments in the state. I would also like to see more 321A guys join the junior and cadet dual teams and go to Fargo.

My point on the lineup...If Mike was only protecting Colt why would he say ANYTHING about how SJA adjusts their lineup?

I don't wear any so I didn't take that comment personally.

I like Mike (the entire Rogers family) and I am not mad now. It just seems that much of the conjecture on here could be eliminated by AD's scheduling the best competition for their teams and/or individuals. All three of the best HS tournaments in the country permit individuals to attend. Silver Lake did it this year and SJA has done it in the past. Schedule two events and take your team to one and your elite wrestlers to the other. That way a JV wrestler gets to wrestle in a varsity event he wouldn't have otherwise been able to. The individual tournament is bolstered by adding some studs to the brackets and creating the marquis matchups that all wrestling fans love to see. Just because it has always been done "that way" doesn't mean it is the best way to do it.

"My point on the lineup...If Mike was only protecting Colt why would he say ANYTHING about how SJA adjusts their lineup?"

Because someone made a comment that Taylor made the effort to seek out tough competition by bumping up to wrestle Nitcher, while Colt does not.

Sending PM on the rest

As Taylor Moeder's father I was as proud of his season this year as I could possibly be. I was also very proud to see his name on this list when it was posted. Heck after reading the thread clear thru I almost feel it would have been better to have not been mentioned. But I definitely would feel his year warranted consideration. I dont see the need for he and Colt to be compared head to head. The list wasnt about weight classes, but about the top 5 overall. Easily could have been Colt AND Taylor on the list together. Anderson of Clay Center impressed me considerably and he also put together a great year and could have an arguable spot on the list. D. Deshazer - obviously pretty solid and worth consideration. Several others as well.
I planned to stay as far away from posting on the topic as possible but I am confused by the suggestion below by USA Wrestling:

"Now for my Option on the fab 5

I would have Rogers, Ryne, Caylor, Paker, Chase"

I have absolutely no problem with Taylor not being on your list, but I would be interested in how someone he beat head to head this year is on the list?? And then you will have to explain dropping Blair just the same. I think you are using some other method of reasoning than I am on your selections.

Taylor does belong on the list. So do the rest of the Fab 5. There are arguments for others as well. And the arguments should be made in a tasteful manner without bashing other wrestlers. See Moeders post for an example.

Anyone who is even mentioned in the Fab 5 thread should feel honored, it means that your one of the very best Kansas has to offer even if you don't ultimately make the list.

Tell Taylor congrats for me. Looks like he's been wrestling tough.

Mr Moeder

I understand that taylor beat Nitcher How ever this is my option theres no certain way to prove that my methods are correct in any way.

1. I feel that Chase got the nod sully on the fact that as a sr and his high school record show’s itself. I am not meaning to demoralize Taylors high school résumé in any way but he has not yet finished his career in high school maybe iam playing Elders but its just how I feel,
2. However I dropped Cade rather than Ryne because of his fargo success far succeeds three state title that Blair has not saying Cades medals mean nothing because they do to a lot of people I personally enjoyed Cade success after watching his quarter finals match against Crank seemed like a very humble and determined young man
3. I added Colt sully because he accomplished something some people dream about. I added Caylor maybe because I know him on a more than opponent relationship me and him share txts on a daily basis however besides that 4x finalist at a weight that is dominated by so on so grown men is a very very impressive feat which payed off to his D1 Scholarship and 2x fargo champ in my eyes is greater than any state medal just my opinion.

Iam only 20 years old and has only been involved with wrestling since the age of 13 so my opinion might seem some what bias I have not traveled the world and seen a sun set in China or ate lunch in Japan I do not claim no know everything and def do not think my opinion are correct to other people I am not going to try and persuade anyone on into anything.

Honestly, I have absolutely no problems with your opinion at all USA. You had just stated earlier that the head to head should cancel them out and that if Caylor was on there , Kolmer shoud be ahead of him; then you list Caylor instead. Your posts on the topic are contradictory of eachother. I guess I just wasnt sure which one you were actually going to stand behind.

Good call Tim i didnt recall putting that post on there i guess my out look have changed talking to other people about the subject i guess you can say ive been turned on some points.

After watching the match, I definitely would say that quickness is something Missouri referees have more of than KS referees. The guy had his coffee that morning; that's for sure.

The Fab Five are still intact. I applaud Colt Rogers for wrestling Nitcher. Sounds like it was an exciting match.

VERY exciting and well worth the 1.5 hour one way drive!

How is my Fab Five looking now?

Cokeley - In Finals at Nationals!
Moeder - In 3rd/4th match!
Blair - 2-0
Madl - 2-0
Nitcher - Injured.

Rogers - Lost 12-5 in first round.
Anderson - Lost 11-4 in first round.

CLASSY POST! Nice to see you get such satisfaction from Kansas wrestlers losing.

that's not what he's saying at all steve. he's simply stating that his fab 5 are the most dominant wrestlers in kansas. and i have to agree with him.

Well, I did think Chief's post was a mean-spirited in a sense. Stating the unstated. However, I do believe that that was not his intent. He is obviously a big supporter/lover of wrestling, and KS wrestling in particular.

To use a similar logic:

I saw the Colt/Nitcher match. Wasn't Colt wrestling a weight class higher that he usually does for the challenge of wrestling Nitcher? And, the the match was much closer than the score indicated. Colt unfortunately got in a 5-0 hole quickly but bravely battled back. Had he not started in that hole and had he been awarded 2 points for his tilt . . . obviously we have a different outcome. I bet if they wrestled each other ten times, they'd split 5 and 5. Additionally, it appeared that Nitcher might have been gassing a bit towards the end, while Colt still had some fuel in his tank. But anyway. . . Colt lost.

So, at Nationals - weren't they both one and done? No disrespect to them. Then I fall into Chief's game that I'm complaining about myself.

Parker almost got beat in his 6a final. He definitely gave up two points TD and barely won by the skin of his teeth . . .

Anyway. . . as we all know . . . this is just fun for us old guys. And I just hope we can keep it above board and not discourage the young men that are providing us the entertainment.

Finally, my dad can beat your dad in a fight. Ha. ;-)

I am not claiming to know as much about this as Chief. He obviously spends a great deal of time analyzing the subject as he maintains his all class rankings and I do think he picked some great wrestlers for his list. However, if I had a Fab Five list this year I definitely would have had Kyle Caylor on it and because of that I would have included Mark Kolmer on it also. Kolmer who is also a top state performer in football and track & field may very well be the best all around athlete in wrestling this year. Kolmer was undefeated and won his one contest with Kyle who I believe only had one lost this year. Caylor has had a great career for a bigger wrestler. He was in four state finals winning three of them. It is very difficult for a bigger wrestler to reach a state final as a freshman and to win as a sophomore in weight classes that are annually dominated by juniors and seniors. In my opinion Caylor has proved himself over his career and without a doubt deserved to be on a list of the Five Top Wrestlers in Kansas this year. By the way Kyle is also undefeated in the National Seniors tournament so far.

Steve, You either have brain damage, are 9 years old or have not read any of my previous posts. Which is it?

Before the tournament started, I paid for the 5 day webcast. I have been on the livestream promoting KS wrestlers. Many matches before Colt's match, I was on there announcing that our ONLY KS 4X champion was coming up. I told them about his multi sport accomplishments. I was pulling for him during the match as much as anyone, short of his family. For you to say that I took joy in that loss, ensures that you have lost it. Your negative tone throughout your posts has labeled you as such.

Isnt the fab five a term for pumpkin pounding? Didn't Michigan boast the orignal Fab Five?

Well actually that is a good question. But since the Fab Five wrestling version is 2 years old, the question comes a little late. Also, the Fab Five you refer to were posers and they didn't even win "it" did they, whereas Chief's Fab Five are the real deal. And that's a nono bringing up..........but since you used the term pumpkin pounding instead of..........it is acceptable I guess.