20% of 5a wrestlers at state

In 5a 44 kids have losing records thats 20% of the 5A state tourny.
In 4a 3 kids have losing records thats around 1.34% of the state tourny.

KSHSAA OPEN YOUR EYES 5A 6A NEEDS TO BE COMBINED!

Just curious why does everyone want to combine 5A and 6A?

zzzzzzz

Don't take the bait Austin. Some people have inadequacy issues. We all know records are a reflection of the caliber of competition you wrestle.

Ark City Kansas does not win 13 years in a row unless 20% of the kids at state have losing records.

Same bs argument as last year. A kid that is 8-20 and did not win a match in regionals, has no business being at state. Records like 3-6 7-27 3-10 1-4 9-18 6-10 7-15 8-16 5-11 8-12 3-13 have no business being at state. I have no problem with a kid earning his way to state but being in a four man bracket at regionals is a joke. Even having to win 1 match at regionals is a joke.

The state tournament should be the tuffest tourney of the year. 5a and 6a State will NEVER be the tuffest tourney of the year with out a change.

I have no inadequacy issues. Please tell me where all these high caliber kids are?
Please tell why you think a 4a kid with a 32-9 record has not wrestled any high caliber kids?

Records are a reflection of how good you are. I would bet a lot of money that no one with single digit wins and double digit losses places at state. I would bet even more that 90% of them go 2 and out and the other 10% might win 1 match after there first loss.

If thats the competition you want at your State Tourny, well thats pretty sad. It should be the best of the best. Its just an easy 1st round win and guaranteed team points for that 1st place regional kid wrestling a 4th place regional kid.

5 kids in 4a state this year have single digit wins, all of them had to win 3 matches at regionals to make it to state.

Salina South had 3 kids with below .500 records start the day yesterday that made the finals. Two of them still have below .500 records. Two of them beat the 1 seeds that were state ranked with pretty records; one beat the two seed. One of them beat the 4, 1, & 2 seed and won the tournament.

Can it be the competition? Can it be luck. Can it be that all of 5A is bad and doesn't even deserve a state tournament???

Yes! A great idea. 5A and 6A are so bad we could eliminate those tourn. We also know 3A is week. So we could just have one state championship (4A). We could then have it all under one roof. We could also have it at a place that has two gyms, like Salina South. That way we could pacify the western Kansas folk by having a JV state (3A) in the lower gym.

A true state, and a JV state. Yes, eveyone will be happy!

Oh cr@#! My last post didnt mention how good I was back in the day, how many state championships I won, how good the compition was, how much I know about wrestling, or how many matches I won. I promise to post better next time.

ANY STATE TOURNY WITH A REGIONAL WITH A 2 DAY 16 MAN BRACKET IS GOING TO HAVE TUFFER KIDS IN IT THAN A ONE DAY 8 MAN BRACKET THAT HAS 4 OPEN SPOTS AND EVERY ONE GOES TO STATE REGARDLESS OF THEM WINNING A MATCH OR NOT.

None of the wrestlers that have made it to State have chosen were they live. On top of that, they have no say in where they compete during the year. For anyone to come on this forum and say that a wrestler doesn't deserve to go to State when they have placed at their Regional is pretty sad. I am sure that everyone one of them is deserving in one way or another to compete for a State Championship.

LEE IF YOU DO NOT WIN A MATCH IN REGIONALS YOU THINK YOU DESERVE TO GO TO STATE?

WHEN THE KIDS IN 3A AND 4A HAVE TO WIN 3 OR 4 MATCHES TO BE TOP 4

you also forgot to make a ridiculous comment about Ark City.

Oh! Ive been to Ark City once. All that stuff they had hanging on the wall didnt impress me at all. It means nothing, compared to my 3rd place 4A regional medal, thats stuck in a box somewhere in my basement.

i know. right?

A wrestler competes all year, they work hard in practice, they sacrifice throughout the year, they don't choose where they live, they can't change who they wrestle or where, and they can't change how many wrestlers are in their bracket at Regionals. If they finish at the top four in Regionals, then they are deserving of a State Tournament.

Not a Factual Statement. Do you know why?

Its on the wall right next to my 5a football state championship patch and my 2 back to back 4a Team wrestling titles and the college I wrestled at National championship.

Who are you ?Keep hiding behind a name Tuff guy. I live in Texas I do not have a basement.

Luke, you never answered the question. Do you know why your statement is untrue?

I have an idea. How about we keep whining about it? It is what it is. People like to bring in a good argument to young people: "Life isn't fair." Thats for sure. So what kids with losing records make it into the state tourney and kids with winning records dont. That kid who has a losing record and has bled, sweated, and worked hard to make it to state is just as deserving as the next guy. It's the luck of the draw.

Lucass, did you watch any of the 5A regionals yesterday? If not, your opinion means little. The regional I went to had good competition. The kids that you think don't deserve to be there, qualified just like everyone did in 4A. Just like you did. Just like I did. Just like Beeson did. I know I am overstating this but I hope I can slow it down for you to understand.

I watched a high school wrestler make it to State yesterday. He went 2-2 at Regionals and made the first State Tournament of his career. He has a sub five hundred record, but he has done everything that he can do to get to State. I am proud of him, and he deserves it.

Mr. Baker

I live in Kansas. I can see the town of Abilene from my front porch. I have a basement that is the home to my 3rd place 4A regional medal (I think).

Despite the fact I have lived the majority of my life in the 3A and 4A world, Im of the opinion all 5A/6A qualifiers are deserving of the state experience. For the most part it is tougher to make varsity in a 5/6A school than it is to get by a round or two at a 3/4A regional.

Duane Wuthnow
SHHS/SES wrestling parent

freudian slip???

When I wrestle we went to the bobcat classic which had teams from our of state and it keeps getting harder every year. And I can honestly say i think that that tourney is harder than any of the state tournaments in Kansas.

And as for the caliber of kids. You r saying that? For example Larry's son Bryant had beat last years 321A, 4A, and 6A state champs. If I remember right he beat the 321A state champ in OT at silver lake and the 4A state champ pretty handily at Chanute's tournament. So Mr. Baker you post things on here before you know who is in these classes. And don't mistake these comments as saying that 5A an 6A are the best classes in the state of Kansas. Because, overall I do think that 4A is tougher.

Sorry Headup, you caught me.

I am a past 321a wrestler. I see both sides here. It really isn't fair for a kid in 321a to have mostly full 16 man brackets and wrestle their tail off and not go to state, then see a kid in 5 a with a 3-12 record be in a four man round robin. And the discussion about the level of competition in 5a is correct. Most d1 athletes you see wrestling in college come from 5a or 6a schools. Then again life just isn't fair at all.

Disclaimer: Abilene High School Wrestling, its Coaches, Wrestlers, Parents, or Alumni, are not necessarily of the same opinion of those alumni who frequently post on this forum.

My opinion. Ark City is the real deal this year! They have been a nationally recognized wrestling powerhouse, one that any program in this state would love to achieve!
The records at state, or even regionals, dont matter anymore. If records bother you, dont look at them. But definately dont cut on anyone for doing their best, and finishing their season to the best of their abilities.

Lucas please take your Beeson issue out on Beeson and quit disrespecting 5A and Ark City. Ark City is a time honored program and perhaps the greatest in Kansas HS Wrestling History. They are not just ranked #1 in 5A, they are ranked #1 in all class and placed ahead of all Kansas teams at Newton. Wayne Jackson is a Kansas HS Wrestling icon perhaps second to none. You are very disrespectful to both and all who come from the roots of which I speak. Nobody gets on here and bashes 4A or Abilene to prove their point or defend their position so why do you? You need a lesson.

Also recall that your precious Bo Maynes won his 4 titles in 5A. Are you suggesting that his titles are some how tarnished because of that? Because if you are not, you are certainly being a hypocrite.

And Beeson I know the answer to your riddle because as you probably know, I was there.

James, thank you for expressing the feelings and attitudes of most of us associated with Abilene wrestling and our respect for ALL wrestling competitors!!!!

Curtis Rein

Yes you were! Your team was actually the reason for Lucass's incorrect statement. The answer is that Ark City only won 11 State Championships, not the 13 that Lucass has given credit for the last 3 years.

How about this? we get a GRAND STATE a week after 3a, 4a, 5a, 6a state. The top 4 from 3a, the top 4 from 4a, the top 4 from 5a, and the top 4 from 6a all compete in a sixteen man bracket. I THINK THIS WOULD BE AN AMAZING thing for the sport and for the dumb arguments about which class is tougher. the state champ would match up with a 4th place kid from a different class and a runner up would match up with a 3rd place guy from a different class. I may be just dreaming, but i think this would be the greatest thing ever.

i will donate $1,000.00 to get it started we got two weeks to plan it im sure will would host it in his barn


Butch Drylie
785-650-4404

Ouch. Well said X-man! TRUE THAT! Sometime just plain, simple logic is just too painful for some people to get a grasp on.

Lucas, you might want to consider a course in into logic at a community college. It would be money well spent.

Dean Welsh
JC, KS

They could. Kids state exists. Unfortunately, most of them won't. It is up to them to come out for another month.

Terry

Never once did I mention This years Ark City team.
NEVER ONCE DID I MENTION THIS YEARS ARK CITY TEAM!

I RECEIVED A MESSAGE TODAY FROM A GUY THAT SAID HE LIKED MY POST ON 5A RECORDS. HE TOLD ME IT WONT GO OVER WELL THOUGH......... BOY WAS HE RIGHT! no body likes to be told the system sucks, but there are options to fix it , Something needs to be done!

James stout and Curtis Rein I have respect for every kid that steps on that mat I went 1-29 my soph year if you both have forgot. I know what it is like to only have to win one match and go to 5a state championship, I know what it is like to lose that match as well and if you both think its ok to have 44 kids with losing records at your state tournament, I question your wrestling sanity?

Beeson and the other guy that hides behind all those letters. If you think it is ok to have 44 kids with losing records in your regionals I question your wrestling Sanity too. A state tourny should be filled with the best wrestlers in the state.

Obviously you guys are fine with only 4 kids in regionals advancing to state weather they are worthy or not. More team points for the good guys RIGHT!

I love how pissed off you guys get when I slaps you in the face with the truth.

Fact 20% of wrestlers in 5a have losing records
Facts 1% of wrestlers in 4a have losing records.
30 something schools in 5a
30 something schools in 6a
60 something schools in 4a
60 something schools in 3a

You should not be allowed to advance to the State TOURNAMENT with out winning a match at regionals just because the big schools cannot fill a roster. COMBINE 5A AND 6A AND MAKE THE STATE TOURNAMENT COMPETITIVE!!!!!!

IS IT FAIR THAT IN 3A AND 4A A KID HAS TO WIN 3 OR 4 MATCHES TO PLACE TOP 4 YEAR AFTER YEAR. WHEN IN 5A 6A YOU BECOME A STATE QUALIFIER BEFORE REGIONALS EVEN STARTS DUE TO LACK OF wrestlers at the weight.

Drop down to 2 regionals do an 8 man state tourny
TAKE THE TOP 2 FROM YOUR REGIONAL HAVE AN 8 MAN BRACKET
combine 5a 6a
DO SOMETHING TO CHANGE THE *&^%^&%@ WAY IT IS NOW.

Logic tells me there is something wrong when 20% of the kids at a state tourny have losing records. Logic tells me you do not have to win a match in some weights to go to state in 5a. Logic tells me since Bo was never taken down in high school he would have to be the best high school wrestler we have ever had.

Im not saying 4a is better than 5a im saying we need to change the tournament to accommodate the times. 5a regionals has had low numbers for years. Its hard to fill a team in a big school without wrestling History. I looked through the Emporia regionals there were a lot of 4,5 and 6 man brackets. I think there was one maybe 2 full 8 man brackets.

Its on the wall right next to my 5a football state championship patch and my 2 back to back 4a Team wrestling titles and the college I wrestled at National championship.

LUCASS,
I don't really have a dog in this fight and find it senseless but I do have a question. The National Championship you won was surely a NCAA Div I, because you wouldn't settle for one from a lessor Division would you.

I've coached in 3A, 4A (while you were in high school) and 5A most recently.
I think most on this site would like to see a realignment of classes but few are foolish enough to try and belittle a class to try and make your own past seem tougher. Be proud of what your Cowboy Teammates allowed you to be a part of and what you accomplished and spend your time trying to improve the sport instead of wanting to whip Beeson.

Coach Alley

Mr. Baker. Go see Coach Pigorsch reclass to 32-32-32. plus read the post that 4a regional brackets were only 76% filled.
Read the posts that 40-60% All Class ranked wrestlers are from 5A qnd 6A school--in fact go review the All Class ranking and do your own counting. Also, ther are not 64 but 96 321A wrestling schools--and even with thos number they can only fill a 75% of the 16 bracket 321A regional. I don't think anyone really give a s... about you and Beeson, nor about your rants about 5A---plus don't see a lot of Abeline or Ark city medals in the bigger and better tournaments. Instaes of rabble rousing, why don't you develop a statewide wrestling restructure that can be sold to school administrators and then to KSHSAA. Pretty soon someone just calls animal control, or shoots, the neighborhood growling cur.

all i can get out of this is some of you guys need to use spell check and grammar check. thats what is making kansas wrestling look bad. kansas wrestling is not perfect. it changes from year to year. we are dealt the cards and have to follow the rules so a new rule i would like to add to this forum is use your spell check. i wont push the grammar issue as i am not a grammar teacher.

Read the posts that 40-60% All Class ranked wrestlers are from 5A qnd 6A school--

I have no doubt that 5A and 6A have tough kids, I see many of these tough kids right here in Hays, but to compare these to the All Class Rankings, is not a good argument in my opinion. As many of these kids have never met, and have no common oponents. Many of these rankings are just an educated guess. Dont get me wrong I read them, and debate about them just as much as the next guy. But I also know that unless these kids all meet at one time or another, you will never know who is the best in the state. therefore encourage your highschool wreslters to join the Kids Series. This is the only way some of these wrestlers will ever get the chance to prove they are the best in the state ALL CLASS. Becuase we all know the all class tournament isnt going to happen soon, as many have been arguing for this for years. JMO

Agree on spel chek and gramr chex. But, not easi to do on this forum--do knot even kno wher to loolk for those butoons. Butt, will keep looken for thm.

I am sure glad we are not using grammer checks, and I am sure glad you are not a grammer teacher. Becuase you forgot to put a capital letter after all of your periods. Just thought I would point that out, as it was possibly the best proof reading I have ever done. :):)

I can't resist. It is grammar, FYI

Darn-It I thought mine was corrective proof. Oh well that is why I am not a teacher, and work on a computer all day. My computers spell check has my back.

Lucass, I have been rather quiet on the subject of you this year. And for the most part I intend to stay that way, as I have learned that arguing with you is futile. I do have a question I would like for you to answer, just to give everyone a little bit of background on how much you know and how closely you follow Kansas Wrestling. How many Kansas High School Duals, Tournaments or State Tournaments have you been to in the last 2 years? I am assuming your knowledge and drive for wrestling is not what you would like to let on. Especially considering that you did not know that McPherson and Pitt were now 4A, nor did you know that they either one were ranked.

I am sure glad to hear that Coach, thanks.

Don't be encouraging Will to do that...zoning issues...

Lucas man, I hear you, usually loud and clear too.

No one wants to see those kids with losing records in the state brackets, but not because they think those kids with losing records don't belong at state. It is because we know those losing records will give close minded, tunnel visioned people a reason to gripe about 5A and 6A and call for a combined class. Yes, the numbers you provide about losing records are hard to miss and hard to ignore. We agree that it's not the best thing, but combining the classes would just create a worse problem.



Some how I knew that would come up again.

First let me state that Chiefs rankings are extremely accurate. They are definitely not some "educated guess". More likely they are "high probability predictions" made from analysis of mountians of information, data, results, comparisons, that is facts.

The variable presented above (team all class ranking) is just one variable. There are many others as well. The only variable Lucas and some others look at is the record thing and that is not a true reflection of the strength of a class or its wrestlers and the toughness of the class or the achievement of state champion or even qualifier of the said class.

The losing records Lucas is a reflection of the level of competition the wrestlers experience and the regional alignment. You really don't understand everything that goes into it. Take my son's weight. In his bracket there are kids with losing records that wrestle for Lansing, Emporia, Andover Central and Aquinas. If you knew anything, you would know that these are top notch programs with elite wrestlers. You would know that you have to be good just to make the team. You would know that if you make the team you will endure the toughest schedule of competition imaginable where placing will be as hard or harder than state, even the mighty 4A state. And if you make it thru it you will have a "chance" to go to state. These kids I speak of are definitely good enough to be at state. They would definitely make the 3A state and probably the 4A state. You really don't understand that component and several other components of the argument with which you so strongly pursue.

The regional alignment is a separate issue that I have discussed before and don't want to get into now. It is a KSHSAA issue and will probably never go away so it may be not even worth wasting time on although going to 2 regionals that qualify 8 each as some have proposed I believe would cure the problem.

Now as for me Lucas, I am certainly not hiding behind letters. First of all I do not need to leave me name because I am usually not accusing anyone so there is no need for anyone to face some said accuser. In others words, I do not put derogatory post on here that warrant a name for validity. I had this discussion with AAA recently at Chanute. Also, as I explained to AAA, I want people to focus not on me but on my posts. My name is not important. However everyone that knows what's up in Kansas wrestling knows who I am. If they weren't clever enough to figure it out right away, there have been clues over the years to assist them and most have figured it out by now. I just left some more clues above. Beeson just left another clue as well. He obviously knows who I am. Go back and check and figure it out and some of my posts in the past may make more sense. A lot of people know who I am and I haven't changed my alias yet so obviously I am not hiding. I am sorry that you have been left out of the loop for so long but don't get offended, its not personal.

Start promoting more harmony Lucas. We are Kansas Wrestling and we should be proud of everything about it. Many of us compete with other class wrestlers on National teams, etc. and consider each other colleagues throughout the season at various competitions, etc. and we don't want to be a part of this class warfare thing.

How about being more transparent with your name: XGHS(x2)WSEWC?

That should clear it up. Then again...maybe not.

see there you go. i learned you something already. at least your checking your spelling and grammar. your right i dont use capitals or punctuation usually but i do try to spell right. i just thought i would mention it since im sure there are a ton of people that read these posts and cant make heads or tales out of some of it. some probably get a good laugh. its all in good fun though. im just glad i have been away from this forum room this past season. i do read it but doubt i will post too much any more. too many people take things the wrong way. i have figured out its better to just talk to people face to face at the tournaments and most people are down to earth enough to listen and talk to. thats what its all about. we wont always agree with each others opinion but we have a chance to state our opinions.

Or perhaps even XSHSGHSGHS(there's that x2, good call)WSEHSWC. That should just about do it.

I thought this was interesting, I am in no way saying that Kansas is inferior to Indiana wrestling, but if you look at the state tournament brackets, and you can at ishaa.com, you will see that not one kid has a losing record, as a matter of fact most of the kids have at least 30 to 40 wins. Just in the 106 lb. bracket, 8 wrestlers have at least 40 wins. The sixteen wrestlers have a combined record of 624 wins and 62 losses, now tell me that wouldn't make for a very competitive and fun weekend of wrestling. Not one kid in any weight class as a losing record.

I think we should all move to Indiana.

I wouldn't mind it too much at least I'd be closer to Indianapolis Motor Speedway aka The Brickyard.

haha that is the only reason I would move there. You got a point there.

haha not only do they eliminate the first round of consolations, if you lose in the second round you have no chance to take third. They do that because they don't want to pay referee's and workers for a long tourney and they can get it done in half the time. That also results in half the cost for facility. It makes for an absolute bogus state tourney though. The only truly accurate placers are first and second. The rest of it is a sham. Please don't try to sell me on Indiana anymore. That is ridiculous.

Beeson I came back to KANSAS last year to unretire, where were you? Do I follow Abilene anymore? No I do not! I do not know any of the kids anymore. I watched my friends boy wrestle every weekend these last two years on track wrestling. He tells me whats going on with Tongi and gives me Abilene and James Stout(he had a really good kid quit this year) updates. My Dad is a Kansas Hall of Fame Wrestling Coach and both my lil brothers and my self wrestled in college. I also live 12 hours away, might have something to do with it. Hope that clears things up for you Beeson.

Isn't that what's it is all about, to be STATE CHAMPION. Maybe not to you but I bet if you asked every wrestler, that's why their there.

No, that isn't all it's about. haha ok, someday I will ask one of those wrestling fellows. I've never met any of those guys before. I will leave this silly conversation now. All hail the great state of Indiana. the greatest wrestling state in the union. Good night.

Crystal Clear!! You have watched one little league wrestler, over the internet. You have not been to one Kansas High School wrestling activity in at least two years. You have no idea who the top teams are in 4A, which should be your strong suit. Im basing this off of the fact that you did not know that McPherson or Pittsburg were ranked or even what classification they were last year. So what is clear is, you do not support Kansas wrestling in any way. Unless you are making monetary contributions that I am unaware of. You do not watch or follow Kansas wrestling, but you get on this site and degrade kids, classes, and coaches with NO KNOWLEDGE of what is going on. We see you on this forum one time a year, and that is at the end of the season to complain about records. Everything is Crystal Clear!! Thank You!!

clear as mud!

you told Cokeley on the "Coach of the Year" thread that you live in Dallas Texas.

Now you're 12 hours away???

soooooo you can't follow KS wrestling???

look around there a many different threads trying to change the way things are. you aren't slapping anybody in the face with anything other than your own ignorance, and low self esteem. notice that everyone else offers solutions better than combining 5a and 6a, notice that they don't bash any KS wrestler by doing that. notice that two Abilene wrestling supporters have denounced your uneducated rantings. notice that the only "proof" you have of anyone "liking" your bs, is a PM (?). you have admitted on here that you bullied a mentally challenged kid, at camp, while in high school. you more than likely were a bully in Abilene. AND NOW you my friend have graduated to the BIG TIME, a CYBER BULLY. WOW.

"Like". I agree whole-heartedly. The one thing all classes have in common is that wrestling is one of the hardest activities these kids could be doing. They could quit and turn to drugs and alcohol or other nonproductive things, but instead they bleed and sweat for this sport. For this, they get berated for not being in the right class or not having it as rough as some guy thinks he did 15 years ago. It was 25 years ago for me and I can tell you one thing. These kids would have DESTROYED me in high school! I have no illusions of greatness. Our sport has come a long way and still has a ways to go, but as the one post on our forum says.....Let's be positive. It's almost the end of the year and this is the most anticipated week of the year. Next week, we will be sitting around already thinking about next season or summer season. Good luck to all this weekend and I pray for a safe tournament for all these wrestlers.

It was 25 years ago for me and I can tell you one thing. These kids would have DESTROYED me in high school! I have no illusions of greatness. Our sport has come a long way. [/quote]

Concur! Thats why I am taken aback when someone thinks our state wrestling is dyeing.

One more thing. If we too had a Grand State, I doubt there would be a losing record in any bracket.

The next time Lucas Baker starts a post. Everybody needs to just leave it alone and not post anything. Don't even view it.

Dallas to Kansas might take longer than 12 hours now, cause I think there is a picture of someone standing over his dead horse in the 'other' thread...anyone know how long it is to walk?

I live out of state if I were still in Kansas I would be there and we would of wrestled and you would not still be running your lips like you are.

I never bullied anyone, excpet Beesons B!T#$ ass. Nice try though. The kid showed up to camp smelling like piss all the heavy weights said we were not wrestling him until he took a shower.