4A rankings

Now posted on the KWCA site.

The rankings are returning state points from last season. I was unaware that was the ranking criteria. They will be more accurate with the coaches sharing their input with the ranking coaches.

weird.

Interesting...

So can we see what you have personally ranked them? Just for fun, unofficial like....

Kossivi Esse Sumner Academy is 145 not 138? Just curious how many of the weights are accurate?

I agree, I'd to see yours Chief, just for fun

Back in the days when I had more time, I use to do my own rankings, which does take a lot of time. I would rank all of the others and then try to plug in the ones from our school which is really hard and over the years I have seen rankers that had their own kids way too high more than too low. it is a hard part of the job. As far as weights, yes I know a lot of wrestlers have a good idea where they want to go but this too is not necessarily where they will be. It takes about a week of practice to really figure out where you should be. obviously for those that wrestle year round, they have a better idea of what to expect of their weight when conditioning starts.

Obviously, Chief has put a lot of time into his rankings. I some times wonder if he actually has a job. As for the new rankers, they are just getting started and I think anyone who has ever ranked kids knows it is just one opinion.

As far as the team rankings. Jeff West has one kid ranked (yes a stud) but not much else returning form the state tournament and Chanute has a #1, three #3 ranked and two #5 ranked kids. Obviously that is not credible by anyone's measure and if I were the ones doing the rankings, I would re-think how that is done or not even bother. "no criticism of Jeff West intended"

As far as the team rankings. Jeff West has one kid ranked (yes a stud) but not much else returning form the state tournament and Chanute has a #1, three #3 ranked and two #5 ranked kids. Obviously that is not credible by anyone's measure and if I were the ones doing the rankings, I would re-think how that is done or not even bother. "no criticism of Jeff West intended"

you couldn't have said it any better! I am sure my son will understand.

Every time I get on it is still the old rankings. Did they post them somewhere else?

I checked all the links they are updated and working. http://www.kansaswrestling.org/

Hmmmm? Both ways I go in it still shows February's with Dustin Reed still 1st at 126

once it is up you have to hit refresh button for some reason

That worked, thank you

Where are the underclassman:
Thomas Lisher-Won Kids state with Pemberton taking 6th in the bracket
Tyler Kester-beat Pemberton 3X and Lisher
Anthony Scantlin-in pre-season went 3-2 at Super 32, Went 3-2 at Pre-Season Nationals, undefeated in Freestyle at SB Duals
Anthony Capul 4th???-He took 3rd at Folkstyle Nationals in Cadets, FloWrestling has him listed as a top 50 Freshman in the country at any weight. Lost 3-2 to Saul Ortiz.

DJ Ballard although not a freshman had wins over Tujaque and Prieto this summer.

Not that rankings count for a lot, but expect these guys to make some waves as Freshmen this year.

Also Corey McCleary is from Basehor not Baldwin

I think we should throw more bodies at helping with the 4A rankings.......or, we could save much debate that will certainly come, and just use Chief's rankings for 4A.

Hey guys,

I have talked to the KWCA group and feel confident that they will be worked out. I am forwarding any corrections or info that I have to them and if we all do the same, they will absolutely improve. The next release is scheduled for the Tuesday after the first practice. The decision is settled and we all need to move forward for the betterment of Kansas wrestling!

- Chief

That is a good response Chief.
I assume these guys just decided over the weekend to do this and if they are starting solely based on last years points and such, I think that is a reasonable thing to do at this point. Having 4 guys from around the state consult I think will help. This job has in the past been determined by the class rep! I expect the rankings to be very legit once wrestling has actually occurred.

Has anyone heard about any wrestlers that may miss the season due to football injuries? It seems like a couple of kids are missing from the rankings.

Not sure that those involved in the decision had the betterment of Kansas wrestling in mind. If they did I would be willing to bury the hatchet but too many things were said and too many lies were told. The bottom line motivation had NOTHING to do with wrestling, rankings accuracy or even coaching. It was clearly a move tainted with conspiracy and dishonesty. I truly hope those involved are ashamed of themselves. Why would any coaches want to fix something was not broken? How does involving yourself, as a coach, improve your team? Eric Johnson is a top shelf gentleman with the highest level of professionalism and character. He is a God fearing man with a high sense of moral value and integrity. He loves wrestling and supporting Kansas wrestling without any personal reward to be attained. Hats off to Eric for moving on. I wish I had the appetite to swallow as much pride as he has had shoved down his throat during this week of high school wrestling coach politics.

Thanks Eric for all you do. We need more guys like you!

Well said Will, I'm not sure either. Seems very silly at best, and potentially disengaging to a solid man and very valuable (non-coach) leader in Kansas wrestling.

I guess my question is why are we not being told what happened? Why are names not being provided? PM me, I will be happy to ask these coaches by name publicly what they were thinking, and how they think they can do a better job. Obviously as of right now their Rankings are not as accurate as Chief's. So how is this better?

I am the 4A representative for the KWCA. The KWCA board voted to have a group of coaches do the rankings this year. It has caused some hard feelings, but I believe a system is now in place to accurately report the rankings. Eric does an excellent job with rankings, and I appreciate your last post so we can move on.

Brandon Jobe
jobeb@usd204.net

In the spirit of full disclosure, could we see the voter's names and their votes? Again, why would any coaches WANT to be involved in ranking? There will be obvious bias. Did all of those, including you, ask for and receive permission from your AD to put yourself in such a place of potential controversy? One of those "in your system" made it clear that he doesn't like rankings as he has "challenged his wrestlers to not read the talk forum or rankings", another said he doesn't want his wrestler ranked #1 because he doesn't want him to get a big head, another said he likes to use his wrestlers not being ranked as a motivational tool and YOU are on record stating you WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH RANKINGS yet you voted to take them over from Eric. YOU even stated that it was not professional to engage in a discussion on the forum yet you just posted this. And finally, "hard feelings"...YOU have attacked Eric's character and lectured him on professionalism, some have challenged Eric's credibility, claimed that he had "St. James bias" (I still haven't figured that one out since you guys are voting for the 4A rankings and SJA is in 5A), another member appears to have lied about sending an email notification to Eric and then threatened him with physical violence (a clear case of cyber bullying), and you pass this off as "hard feelings", WOW.

Lets be clear folks, the KWCA is a LAME duck organization. Not even one half of the HS coaches in Kansas are members (I pay $25 to belong and any of you can as well, it is NOT limited to HS coaches) and the number present to discuss and vote on this topic many not have even been 25% of the total number of HS head coaches. In my opinion it is obvious we need to work on the quality of wrestling and improving wrestling as coaches. We have a great asset in Eric Johnson as he invests HOURS of his time making calls, sending and receiving email, answering posts, taking phone calls and takes the high road on every occasion even when some of the wrestling dads have their pride bruised a little and lash out. These claims of bias are outright heresy and those who made them should publicly apologize. If you look at his top 10 senior list for this year you will NOT find my son or any other SJA wrestler but you will find several small school and western KS kids on this list because he put HIS list together and stood by it. Eric is a gift and few coaches who have NO CLUE how to do rankings decided they wanted to do it. We have asked them WHY and this is the answer:

Gentleman,

Let me try to clear this up. I sent an email last night stating the system that myself and the 3 other coaches have in place for this year’s 4A rankings. This system was just developed yesterday, so the accuracy of the 1st rankings is not perfect. I also stated that I believe this system is allow for accurate rankings in the future. I then gave my thoughts on your rankings Eric, which is no different than what I have told you both. I think you do a great job, you put many hours into them, and I have never had a problem with them. The biggest drawback to having you do the rankings is sometimes you are willing to argue with people on the talk forum. I believe a professional organization such as the KWCA should act professionally, and let the general public do the debating. A ranker should take all the information at hand, make their best guess, and then make changes as the season unfolds. I do not believe they should be involved with the arguments. Eric, you are closely tied to Will. Will, I have told you before that there are people who just flat out don’t like you, and will immediately disregard what you are saying, whether you are right or wrong. For example, some people will not attend Southern Plains camp with you running it. You like to stir things up, which is probably not the most professional approach. I personally have no problem with either of you, I think you both do great things for Kansas Wrestling, as I have told you face to face. I do not hide things from either of you.

The KWCA board made the decision for 4A coaches to do the rankings. I simply gave them the information I have, and let them vote. I do not have a personal vendetta against either of you.

I hope we can move forward from here.


Brandon Jobe
Bonner Springs High School
Clark Middle School
Physical Education/Weight Training/ Head Wrestling Coach
www.bonnerspringswrestling.com
@bravewrestling


Everyone can draw their own conclusion from this email and if you would like to see the others feel free to request them and I will "unprofessionally" post them on this forum. Obviously Mr. Jobe has a different standard in mind as well as a double standard.

Matt Simms - Colby
James Stout - Abilene
Andy Albright - Chanute
Brandon Jobe - Bonner Springs

Speaking of bias...
The KWCA annually awards HS Coach of the year in each classification:

http://www.kansaswrestling.org/images/docs/KWCA12/kwcawinner2013.pdf

6A – Carlos Prieto - Garden City STATE CHAMPS
5A – Brian Shelton - Valley Center 5th Place
4A – Cullen Jackson - Holton STATE CHAMPS
321A – Bill Johnson - Norton STATE CHAMPS

Coach Buckbee was the 5A state champion coach but had won the award the previous year which disqualifies him? I have never seen this rule published, only heard that it was in place. Greg was named, deservedly so, the NWCA Coach of the Year (I don't understand why you can't be coach of the year in consecutive years because if you are, you are??) You have to be a member of KWCA to be coach of the year but lets take a closer look at 5A.

2nd Place Mike Medina St. James Academy
3rd Place Loren Parkes St. Thomas Aquinas

Hmmmm Looks like maybe we could make a claim that the KWCA has a private school bias. The same organization that votes to oust Eric Johnson because he associated to Will Cokeley and has St. James bias appears to be the pot calling the kettle black.

Just calling it like I see it. Dang, you are not supposed to do that on the forum. It is not professional to post facts and then draw conclusions from them. You are supposed to just post facts and let everyone go at it from there. That's professional.

I know Chief has a very specific criteria for ranking. What is the criteria of the new group of rankers?

I think I pretty much speak for everyone when I say, Cokeley shut up! No one wants to hear about your Love affair with chief. If they have a private school bias it's because of you.

No I don't think you pretty much speak for everybody. Cokeley brings up some very valid points. If you think Chief is biased, just wait till these coaches start. I guarantee that these coaches will be so busy with their wrestling teams that they will not put in the time and energy that Chief does into the rankings. I hate how often Chief changes his rankings, but they are as up to date and as accurate as they ever were before or will be after. The KWCA has taken a HUGE step backward in the betterment of Kansas Wrestling.

Remember it is the 4A coaches that are wanting their class divided into 2 groups so there will be more state championships. Every body can be a winner in 4A. It is the 4A coaches that want Chief out. Why are the 4A coaches wanting to make it so easy for the kids? Why are the 4A coaches wanting to make it so easy for themselves? Does a State Championship mean as much if you water it down? Doesn't it take away if everybody is a winner? What a JOKE!!!

Were the rankings not accurate before? It looks like to me they were a hell of a lot more accurate than they are right now.

If Eric does an excellent job, why would you want a group that is doing a bad job to take his place?

Lastly, do you really appreciate my last post? If so why?

First off I wouldn't know Chief if I bumped into him a tournament. All I know are his posts and ranking on this forum and the KWCA. From what I can tell from this year and the past few years he does a pretty good job with the rankings and keeps it professional with the discussions on here.
Second, ksuwrestling2 sure does not speak for more in regards to Cokeley! I am neither a supporter or detractor of Cokeley. I have maybe spoken 20 words to him in the past 10 years I have been involved with Kansas wrestling. I agree with him sometimes and disagree other times. I think he is entertaining, informative and GOOD for Kansas wrestling.
Third, to say the new 4A ranking system "a system is now in place to accurately report the rankings" is a joke! I don't know all about all the wrestlers in 4A but I do know that the rankers have not talked to all the coach's. With my limited knowledge they have at least a handful at wrong complete wrong weights. Something they would have caught if they had taken the time to actually talk to other coaches.
Question is, why fix it if it is not broke?

Will, did you post an e-mail to the forum that was written to you and Chief? That's not cool.

Whats the problem with posting info that may help us uninformed fans understand where the informed folks are coming from? I appreciate it. Thank you.

I agree with redstorm completely

Correct me if I am wrong. Chief is not doing the rankings because he respectfully defends (argues) his decisions on ranking wrestlers. This is exactly what the new ranker is doing here. Respectfully explaining his position? How can you judge Chief when your doing the same thing?

And I thought people got mad in 3A when I did the rankings!

Unfortunately this became an emotionally packed issue. It might be wrong in some minds for me to have posted the email. In retrospect I should have handled that differently. It may not be a reasonable defense but I felt there had been so much lost in translation that it would be easiest to post the email to protect my integrity. I apologize to Brandon and those of you who were offended by this action. We don't want to litter our forum with email so in the future I will paraphrase and report instead of posting an email. My honesty will have to stand on its own. I have not changed my opinion or reaction or position on the rankings topic and I think it is clear. This will be the last I post on this topic.

I finally read thru this entire thread. It is embarassing!!!! Eric asked that we move forward and was ignored. The attacks in thread are an embarssment to Kansas wrestling. Brandon, like Eric, is one of the best people in Kansas wresling. He spends countless hours in gyms not just during High School Wrestling, but also in the summer. Over the last few years he has spent numerous hours working with my son and other Kansas wrestlers (at a free club, try to find another one of them in this part of Kansas in the summer) while the rest of us are doing something a lot more fun than sitting in a hot wrestling room. He is one of the Fargo coaches and does an excellent job. If we were debating his qualifications, he would be easy to defend given his extensive involvement in Kansas summer wrestling. In the private message I read on this forum, all he did was state his opinions....wouldn't you rather know what he is really thinking and get some honesty then have someone blow smoke up your *ss.

This summer my son had a good greco run at Fargo. Brandon and the others at Bonner get alot of the credit along with another young coach named Ryan, who helped to calm my son down after a close loss. I hope both families can put this behind them!!!!!!!

1st off ty Cokeley for putting the email on here.If some one says some thing they should stand behind it.
Ranking will and all ways should have some debate.
Where did the ranking start? I am guessing the coaches got together at one of the meetings and started it up?

From every thing I have read Chief took this job to hart.I do not think there is any way ANY of the coaches will take the job any where close to the way Chief took it.

Chief you took this way better than I would have.You are more than just a good ranker :}

For got my tag.


CHARLES BRADFORD

No luellen it is not. That is the point he sent a private message

This was not a private message and he explained his position, just as Chief does. Although they looked down on Chief for doing so.

Again I ask the question: Are the Rankings really more accurate than when Chief did them? Wrestlers are in the wrong weights and these four coaches will be more biased than Chief could ever think to be. Was it really for the betterment of Kansas Wrestling?

Beeson, as far as I'm concerned, you are the same as Cokeley. You seem to agree with almost everyone of his posts lately. Anyone who knows Jobe would understand he's an excellent coach and person. Sounds to me like the coaches in the KWCA are trying to distance themselves from anything to do with these forms and the people on them. And I don't blame them.

Disclaimer that should be added to the rankings page: Rankings are for entertainment purposes only. seriously, for the people who are upset on this thread, it is not about the rankings it seems to me they feel Eric was not treated well. obviously what happened was someone who had the authority to do something about it had a problem with Eric. Who that was or if it was multiple 4A people, we may never know (and I may never care).

How do the rankings effect Kansas Wrestling in either a negative or positive way?

In a very positive way, the rankings have opened hundreds of college opportunities for our KS wrestlers. I have had dozens of college coaches and other national wrestling web sites that request my rankings. I have also received several e-mails from parents and coaches who thanked me for the motivation that the rankings have provided their sons or wrestlers. Show me a state with a quality, well maintained ranking system and I will show you a thriving wrestling state.

Evidently there is interest with over 24,000 views on the AC rankings and we haven't even started yet. Last year's AC rankings had over 165,000 views.

Proving once again it's all about the person doing the ranking and has nothing to do with those being ranked!

I would have to disagree with you saying Eric is all about himself. Eric and I have disagreed on many topics, and rankings on this forum. But I do feel that he does these rankings for the wreslters and wrestling fans.

Ah, I think Sporto is joking. Helping Kansas kids get opportunities and enjoy the sport more has always been the goal!

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