Bias

Does anyone still think I had a St. James bias? It looks like I underestimated them!

All those negative comments about me unrightfully ranking them too high and then they win by 63 points and I can hear birds chirping. Isn't that always like it is? Oh well... It's lonely being a ranker. lol.

IMOP, your predictions were spot on.
You made a comment early in the season of, "don't wake a sleeping giant", (Goddard). Weighing the age and talent, SJA, was the team to beat.
Bias, no, but next year, with fingers crossed, the "giant" might be awakening. Lol.

It's lonely at the top Chief. Keep doin what you're doin, because I don't see anybody stepping up trying to do a better job.

Nothing wrong with being biased....the question is can you back it up? Obviously you can.

I still think that you are biased. The problem is there is nothing wrong with being biased. Just be honest enough with yourself to admit it.

Lol. Look up bias. It means favortism or unfairness. I just called it as it was and evidently not loud enough.

I think you are very objective and for the most part do a great job. I also think that you root for St. James and all things being even the St. James kid would get the nod.

People can be objective and biased at the same time. I am. I root for the Bulldogs and want them to do well. I also see the point of view against the Bulldogs when a call goes against them. I can make a fair call even if it is against the Bulldogs. That is Objective and Biased. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Just be able to admit it.

When I ranked Goddard #1 for two years, they called me Wichita biased. Which is it?

Are we really arguing in text and on the forum. Lets pick just one place to debate.

As I texted, it is easy to pick the best wrestlers or team in the state. It is when you get to the bottom of the better wrestlers that it starts to show. Picking the favorite is easy.

Never any examples. Just empty talk.

Not always, "picking the favorite, is easy" Chad you picked KMC, to be the team to beat. You lost that, prediction. Chief, had SJA. Goddard #2. KMC #3. Don't see your reasoning on "Bias"? He calls it like he sees it. Good job Chief.

I'll get you some examples. If it is just empty talk, why is it eating at you to the point you made a topic just for this subject. You must feel there is some merit to it, or it wouldn't bother you.

The truth will set you free Chad.

Well I had Goddard before Chief moved them to #2. Why don't you check and see how close he was at the beginning of the year. SJA still #1, that was the easy one. And I picked KMC and Goddard in the middle of the season to bring some excitement to the forums. It did help.

First Rankings: #1 SJA #2 STA #3 Ark City KMC and Goddard were not even in the rankings. The best was the easiest, took forever for KMC and Goddard to crack into the rankings.

Ok, true. Took a long time. SJA, KMC. Had multiple seniors. Ark city, and Goddard didn't. As the season progressed don't you feel these 2 young teams made a mark on the future? (Ark City, Goddard). Just don't see "Bias" as a concern.

I agree "Bias" is not a concern. I just would like for it to be admitted. The rankings are pretty close, but they should be. They change every week, sometimes two or three times a week. I appreciate what Chief does as much as the next guy, but they aren't even close to what they were at the beginning of the year.

Let me say congrats Chief and St. James. Turns out that they were the best team this year. I have given Chief quite a bit of grief this year about bias, and unfortunately I went to far and it turned into being critical of his rankings. 90% of the time I feel that you rankings are right on. The thing that makes me call bias actually has less to do with your rankings and more to do with your common theme on most of the threads on the forum.... If it is good for St. Thomas and St. James Chief is for it.... if not he is against it.... When post go up about St. James kids getting 100 wins he is first to say great kid and great job... I just miss not seeing him comment on most of the other kids threads. By the way Chief, I enjoyed the picture of you holding the St. James 1st place trophy this year at state, guess I just missed the picture of you with Ark City the last 2 years....

I never said because you were biased your picks were wrong. I just think it's biased that you root for them so much. But yes, with all of the talent they "put together" it was inevitable they would win. Congratulations SJA/Blair Academy.

I'm glad Beeson sent you that. You guys didn't hand me the trophy last year! Would have like that.

I learned this year at state that kids don't pay attention to the rankings and undefeated kids on the mat. The good ones go out and get it done.

Us parents and maybe some kids do worry about them, and they do pull some weight during the season on some seeding and intimadation for unranked kids.

They are well done and I like following the rankings, but at the end of the day they are educated decisions on who ranks where.

The matches still have to be wrestled.

This thread is the equivalent to a kid creating a thread congratulating himself on being a state champ. Let the work speak for itself and let someone else create the thread. Even if it's true, nobody likes a bragger.

Actually every now and then it's ok to say I told you so. Especially when someone took some major heat all year long for having the right team ranked number one all year.

Tyler Dryden, I started the thread by admitting that I greatly underestimated St. James. But thanks for the state champ comment!

Really??? Here are the facts:

113 - Steve Tujague - The third Tujague to attend SJA. STA kids club wrestler. Catholic middle school

120 - Max Goode - There are many Goode's at SJA. He is the third to go out for wrestling.

126 - Reese Cokeley - 2nd Cokeley to attend SJA.

132 - Zak Hensley - Moved to Shawnee from Frontenac when his dad took a job with Constentinos Pric Chopper

138 - Clay Lautt - Long time East Kansas Kids wrestler. Lives four miles from SJA

145 - Sammy Cokeley - the third Cokeley brother to attend SJA

152 - Andrew Tujague - the second of seven kids who will attend SJA. Mr. Tujague is the Technology director there (see Steve Tujague)

160 - Ben Vanlerberg - NEVER wrestled before attending SJA. Recruited from the Hallway.

170 - Matt Pratt - Long time East Kansas Kids wrestler. Lives near SJA

182 - Trent Salsbury - Long time East Kansas Kids wrestler. This was his 13th year in the Catholic Education system.

220 - David Feist - the third Fiest brother to wrestle for SJA. NEVER wrestled before attending SJA. Recruited from the Hallway.

There you have it Steve. Go bark up another tree. I am tired of your libelous statements.

You just run your mouth and never back it up with data or facts.

Will, I am glad you finally posted this. You have told me the above many times, and continued to let these "recruiting" accusers hang themselves. Maybe they'll shut up now.

Sad part for them, is that more and more kids will continue to come to SJA, and they will have to continueto see SJA at the upper end of the state wrestling world.

Sad life to live, trying to tear successful people down..........

PLEASE PLEASE someone post the picture of Chief holding the trophy. Of all the people that had a hand in making SJA State Champs I find it hard to beleive where Chief fits into the picture. Unless of course they passed it around and let all their FANS hold it.

Ha!!! You crack me up Mill Valley. After the tournament, I congratulated BVNW, Derby, Garden City, KMC, Goddard and St. James for their Team trophies. My friend Will handed me the trophy and took a picture. I will send it to you but I don't know if you get phone coverage behind that rock. It was funny! Unless you are part of the hate group that freaks out on others success or having a good time. You can get counseling for that!

I made him hold it. Not because he had anything to do with SJA winning but because I wanted him to. Eric and I are friends and we were friends before the archdiocese even had blue prints for SJA. He knows lots of the kids in Kansas and Missouri. He supports wrestling everywhere and gives more to the sport than anyone. His favorite school is actually Shawnee Mission East where his son Tanner wrestled. They might not not ever win a title so I wanted Eric to have a chance to hold a state championship trophy. He was reluctant and now I know why.

The jealousy is unbelievable. If you don't like what Eric does why do you attack him? He is just a passionate fan and is dedicated to the sport. Use your energy to enhance instead of being destructive. Look for ways to find common ground with a VOLUNTEER. I promise he hasn't given one dime or one minute of time to support SJA wrestling as an entity. Every kid in Kansas has benefited from his work to bring awareness to Kansas.

It is dispicable those who attack personally but choose to remain anonymous.

I don't hate Eric and I don't hate Will. Believe it or not I like both of them. We have a lot of discussions involving wrestling. Will knows things about me that I would like to keep between us and I know things about Will that will stay between us. I call Eric through out the year with suggestions and questions and Eric calls me through out the year with questions and asking for advice. I want it clear that, even though we seem to disagree on the forum, I think both of them are good for Kansas Wrestling and consider them friends.

I think I need to clarify my statement on Chief's Bias. I think Chief is a fan of SJA no question in my mind. He is friends with Will and wants Will's team and Will's sons team to do well. There is nothing wrong with rooting for a team, even when you are the ranker. I also do not think that Chief is just bias to SJA, I think he is Bias to the Kansas City Area. This is normal being from the KC area. Again, I do not think this is wrong. I would just like for it to be acknowledged.

I do not think that Chief is Biased in his rankings, for the most part. I think that Chief does a great job with the rankings, well except for posting them too much, ;)which he did not do nearly as much this year. Thank You. I think that Chief is very objective in his rankings and tries to be fair. No system is perfect and we can find flaws in any ranking system.

I guess what I am trying to say is that even though he is a fan of SJA and KC area wrestling. He can still be objective in his rankings. That is why I said he is Biased and Objective, I believe he is both.

Now for all of those complaining about recruiting and chief helping SJA win a title. Find another excuse to why you lost this year and they won. They put a lot of time, energy, and money into this program and are now reaping the rewards. Their boys wrestled hard and won a State Title in the toughest class in the state this year. I though that their wrestlers and fans were humble in victory this year. Congratulations.

Side note, Will sent me that picture as a joke. I forwarded it to my brother as a joke. I did not know he was going to say something about it on the forum and wish he hadn't. There is nothing wrong with celebrating with your friends.

Chief, Keep up the good work. It truly is a thankless job, especially when someone who calls you a friend is the one who rides you the hardest.

Well, I am not friends with Eric or Will and I don’t want to be. Mainly because of the way Cokeley treats people on these forms. There were 4 state champion teams this year and here we are talking about only one.

The only reason I truly care about all of this is because private schools should be in their own classification. SJA can claim whatever they want, but until people wake up and recognize private schools have a distinct advantage over public nothing will change. Until the All-Class ranker and all of his supporters recognize private schools have a distinct advantage over public nothing will change either.

And Cokeley, your little list there with the explanations....that was cute...real cute.

Off Topic for one minute while I brag. Ark City has won the State Championship 20 of the last 50 years, and place in the top 3 another 10. St. James just won their first State Championship. I don't see where Private Schools have the Adavantage.

Bragging over.

Since the year 2000, out of all 4 classes only 3 private catholic schools have won a team state championship. Bishop Carrol won it 4 times. STA won it 2 times. SJA just once. 7 out of 60 team titles since the year 2000 belong to private schools. 4 of which belong to BC, a private school in Wichita. Please Steve, tell me where the advantage is because I cannot find it. Maybe the private schools aren't recruiting hard enough?

Really Will? Jealousy? Because he held a State Championship Trophy? Yeah thats why I made the comment. You talk all the time about busting balls on this page. I didnt attack Chief. I didnt call him any names. I simply stated i would love to see the picture. Chief takes alot of crap on this site for being a SJA homer. (and yes I have chimed in a few times) Hate is a very strong word. Disagreements can happen. But it always seems like you are the first to take things to the personal level with name calling. Relax.

Hey Steve,
I don't agree with everything that the catholic church does, I won't go into that. But I will say that his list was alot cuter and surely more entertaining than your stand up routine. Give it a rest. We need to help get the catholic diocese in KC to stay the hell out of sports (like in the 106# bracket) and quit screwing all the other kids because of their beliefs and get them to worry about more important things of which I won't go into.

This stuff is ridiculous!! If you don’t like it leave the forum, this is a voluntarily joined group, you can leave at any time. This is a talk forum where people voice their personal opinion, if these adults drive you that nuts then do the adult thing and leave the discussion. I don’t know 99% of the people on here face to face and don’t agree with some of the stuff posted but I understand it’s their opinion and me as some mystery person behind a computer I am not going to change their mind. I am willing to bet you have clue how much enjoyment you give them that you care enough about their opinion that you spend hours reading and arguing about it.

If you think the private schools are better then go join one, it’s ridiculous to say they should be in their own class, they still educate their kids to be successful adults in life along with some religion. They are KIDS just like mine that go to a public school and shouldn’t be punished because their family has different religious views than mine. This is the year 2014 and in case you haven’t noticed people are allowed to melt into society regardless of religion race and whatever else use to be so “different”…..

Sorry, it was the 113# bracket. My bad.

It's all good! Just having some fun on the forum in between State/Metro Classic/All-Class Duals. Not to worry...

By the way... Team Kansas is ready to roll out to Denver next week!!!

It is not so much what private schools have done in the past. It is what they are capable of doing. Private schools have not cared so much about wrestling in the past. Now there seems to be a push for it. Why can't you admit they have a different set of rules over public schools? If you compete, you should have the same set of attendance rules. If I'm so crazy then why do so many other states have a separate class for private schools???

Kansas now has it's own version of Blair Academy. I don't see Blair in a public state tournament.

I wish we had the same set of rules as public schools. Then we wouldn't have to forfeit to girls. Advantage: Public Schools.

You know you are right some Catholic schools do have a different set of rules then a public school. It showed this weekend, when one of the toughest wrestlers in the state had to forfeit a match due to the catholic rules, but wait a minute that benefited the public schools, we better not talk about that. I think you need to get off of your soapbox, and just admit it that SJA had a solid team this year from top to bottom, just like the other 3 PUBLIC schools that one the state team championships in 4a, 6a, and 321a.

Lance Geyer

Tuition for public schools must be pretty expensive too. Oh wait... Advantage: Public Schools.

No busing
No subsidized meals
Expensive tuition
Uniforms
Religious curriculum

Steve,

Advantages or disadvantages? Wisconsin separated private and the public demanded them back in. Blair is a boarding school. SJA is NOT a boarding school. Olathe has open enrollment. Public schools have kids attending outside of the district. I think you are not well informed.

Let me just clear up my personal feelings. Chief is good for Kansas Wrestling. He may be a fan of the Kansas City area just like I am a fan of District 2 area. He has personally made me branch out and pay attention to the rest of the state which has been fun and made me a better fan of the sport. I just like to poke fun on here sometimes to make sure he is looking further than just the Kansas City area, which most of the time he is. In addition to the picture I saw of him holding the trophy, I also saw him talking to several members of different coaching staffs and fans, and wishing them the best. He is not a bad guy in my belief. (Now that you know I respect what you do Chief, will you just admit you are a fan of St. James...LOL. )

On the public vs private school issue... there are kids all over the state that are wrestling for school districts that they do not live in. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Will Cokeley said it best... there is a difference between promoting and recruiting....

IMO, I think it would be a shame for the private schools to compete in a separate class. Whoever is the best (last year Ark City, this year SJA) wouldn't you want to prove yourself next year against those top teams? Everything is cyclical, kids graduate and talent changes, so it is hard for me to believe SJA will always win the title. Next year, or the year after, it could be Andover, Goddard, Mill Valley, or it could be KMC or STA. Whoever it is, I want our school to try and compete with them. I want our school to go to the tournaments they go to and wrestle those guys. If we get beat, we go back to the drawing board and work on our weaknesses. If we win, we know we can compete with proven talent. At the end of the year, the state tournament is where our guys should go to wrestle the best of the best. There are some that would like to throw all classes together for this exact reason, but that is a different thread.

I guess I don't understand the whole controversy. It sounds too easy to chalk up a private schools success to 'recruiting'. Any school district that has open enrollment like the Blue Valley school district could be accused of the same thing, but on a smaller scale. We know who the 'Football School' is in our district. We also know who the 'CC School' is and the 'Tennis School' is, etc... But I don't hear a lot of accusations about recruiting because I think it is rare. At least I have no first hand knowledge of it. Wouldn't football players see the success a school has over time (due to great coaching and systems) and maybe just entertain the thought that they would like to go to school X because they are considered the football school? Success in our district is it's own recruiter. If our wrestling coach is doing his best to promote and teach youth wrestling, we should be able to build a strong program (I think he is doing a good job at it, too). Then maybe we become the 'Wrestling School' in our area and wrestlers will choose to wrestle for that school, not out of any sense of recruiting, but because they want to wrestle for that proven coach.

It just seems to me that we should be looking at the success of some schools with more complex criteria than if a private school succeeds, it is because they did something unethical to poach talent. I am not saying that recruiting doesn't happen in either private or public schools. But I have yet to have knowledge of even one instance where it happened. It seems to me that kids and families make their own decisions based on what is best for them. I guess I am too much of a libertarian to think otherwise.

Blair Academy #1 in the United States of America.
SJA #1 in Kansas 5A once...congratulations by the way SJA.

...not a KS version of Blair Academy. Get more competitive and beat them. You know what you're up against...make a difference. Life is not fair, wrestling is life. Wrestlers do not make excuses they find solutions and overcome obstacles.

Elevate your level... I wish SJA was in 4A so that we had more competition to beat and be proud to work hard and beat and know that if we lost to a warrior from SJA it would be worthy.

Let SJA enjoy their reward. It's a new day, make progress, a new season started last Sunday.

Steve,
I guess I don't understand why you think this is a Catholic thing? I'm Catholic and my daughter attends Bishop Carroll. And my boys attend Goddard. I chose what is best for my kids, as do the rest of parents. To call out Catholic schools, cheating the system is rediculous! What if the SJA kids all pulled out and went to, one of the many public schools in the KC area. Would you call out that school as recruiting, if they all went to the same public school? My guess is, no. EVERY school has rules, private or public.

Biased or not, you need to be careful, so you don't hurt your shoulder. Lol.