NCAA 133

Did Oliver have 2 at the end? Your thoughts...

Yes he did and if you say he didn't your lieing to yourself!(take in mind I wanted Stieber to win any way)!!

Clearly two!

Stieber got screwed out of the two in the first period. He had for second but Oliver's hand was on the mat with Stieber behind. That was more clear than the last call.

I need to watch it again to be so sure, but I thought it was clear he had gathered up both legs and Stieber was draped over the top. Oliver could/should have improved to seal the deal. I remember that first round call being close too. I wanted Oliver to win so that is surely playing into it too.

I'm an Ohio State fan and I didn't think Stieber had a shot(and yes I thought it was 2 4 Oliver at the end) but if it isn't called it doesn't count!Congrats Mr. Steiber! TY espn for showing it

Clearly 2 with both legs controlled and Steibers butt on on the mat. We watched many more takedowns awarded in the finals that were not as close as this one. Over all some great scrambles and awesome edge of the mat wrestling throughout the tourney. Glad I got to watch it and hope many young wrestlers did also so they can learn from it.

I don't think it was clear he had the second leg controlled. It was tucked under, you couldn't see from the tv if he had control of his ankle.

Yes I believe it was 2 for Oliver at the end of the match, but I agree with fan, that Steiber should have had 2 earlier in the match when oliver's hand hit the mat. All I know is that it was one heck of a match.

The first period takedown wasn't "beyond reaction time" IMO, and the takedown at the end of the 3rd could have been called either way but he didn't have control of the hips and Stieber wasn't bailing out by any means, I could agree with either way it was called. I don't believe it was called because he didn't have control of the hips.

If they would have been out of bounds with Olivers toes still in then the ref would have called 2.

To me this is why you would have to call this a TD. To say that he needed to have control of the hips is a non issue.

At the end of the day you don't want an official to decide on a close call how the match will be decided. Take care of business and don't give us anything to talk about on a message board.

I did not sleep Saturday night....I know let it go....

Stieber was the best guy at 133 pounds this weekend and he is the champ. GO BUCKEYES

I've seen no calls on that takedown many a time and seen that called a takedown. It didn't look like he was improving his position either that didn't help his cause.

And on the no-call on the takedown in the first period. IMO, Steiber met the criteria for a takedown for a brief second with his hand hitting the mat proceeding with Oliver Hip heisting to his feet, but they both came up on their feet with Steiber in control behind Oliver. Steiber did control him beyond reaction time. I don't think the rules interpretations require him to keep supporting points on mat for a certain amount of time. I refereed 8 years, and recall at rules meeting to call this a takedown.

I'm surprised Steiber let him get that close at the end of the match. He should of ran around the mat as he didn't have a stalling warning. Steiber looked like the better wrestler through the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg12FJr40jE&feature=youtu.be

I stand by my original comment. That was two! The one Steiber was in on at the end of the first was questionable and probably a reaction time no-call.

Take a look at the illustrations on page 96. They aren't the exact same but you don't have to have the head cleared or be up on the thighs or any of the other things I've heard. http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/WR13.pdf

Bottom line...if that was on the edge of the mat it would be called a TD 99% of the time. It should be treated the same at mat center.

inconsistent. i've seen less called a takedown on the edge, in every college meet i have ever watched. but i also have never seen this called a takedown until, offensive wrester wraps around the body.

Looked like 2 to me. Good no call in the first period. I do think if they are on the edge of the mat it is 2 for sure. I bet you see some more clerification from the rules committee before next season on this position.

With that being said, probably one of the worst wrestling performances I have seen out of Oliver. Stayed tied up way too much and didn't pull the trigger.

I think what you have to factor in this call was that Oliver had the double for only a few seconds and that Steiber had a tight body lock and the referee has to make a subjective call if Steiber could or could not improve his position. I think refs like to give more than 2 or 3 seconds to see if wrestler can improve.

Steibers feet were under him so he wasn't on his butt and Olivers head was in his crotch. I've competed in college wrestling and watched a lot of college wrestling, no was this gets called 99% of the time.

Steibers "feet" were most certainly not under him, and he was absolutely on his butt! There was about 4-5 seconds they were in that position too. Please watch the video link above!

I've seen far worse hose jobs but I still say it's a clear TD.

I dont believe the argument of no hip control could be applied-when you have two ankles it is a takedown with no hip control. Oliver has one leg completely circled, and the other ankle tucked controlling that leg, and the opponent flat on his butt-takedown. I think McCormick should go to Will's Officiating Improvement Seminar next year at National's time, he has definitely unworked himself out of the elite!

But Oliver should have opened up a minute earlier, he might have scored two or three times. Too much strategy, not enough wrestling...

Oliver got in very deep surprisingly easy on both shots he made in last 30 seconds. Steiber even knew it was coming. I think if he had that inensity though out the match it might have been different.