I don't think you can blame the promoters of girls wrestling. It sounds like most parents are doing what I do, entering their female wrestler in the same divisions as the boys, on purpose. I attended the Derby tournament and knew they had a girls division.

Sportsfan02 is correct that the Derby tournament did have a girls division. One of the problems at many tournaments is that because there are so few girls that if they enter the girls division that the tournament may have restrictions limiting them to only that particular division. For example, a young lady may only be able to get 1 or 2 matches from entering the girls division, and even then there may be combined weights and combined ages. Those tournaments may also have a stipulation that the girls can only enter one division, for example, "You may enter only the boys division, or only the girls division." I think that is where the problem comes in, then a wrestler is forced to choose and their choice will limit the number of matches.

A question to Sportsfan02 and others. Would you have entered your wrestler in both the girls division and boys division at a tournament if given the opportunity? I think that most would but am just curious as to the response to this point.

I think this is an issue for girls, all lightweights, (girls and boys), and all heavyweights (girls and boys) that are getting limited matches. For whatever reason that particular wrestler is being "discriminated" against based on their gender or size. (I use this word cautiously because I haven't even decided if it is an appropriate application.) Thus is one of the problems that I believe we as a wrestling community must find a way to address. How do we provide the most opportunity possible for the wrestler getting fewer matches? Of course, this has to be done within the rules, and where the rules "discriminate" against the development of a wrestler, we must find ways to change those rules. It seems to me that when you do not have the same opportunity, for whatever reason, then that is discrimination. When opportunities are not provided, or are taken away from an individual because of circumstances, which they cannot help, then those activities and circumstances need to be evaluated. Of course, all of these are tough questions, with no easy answers. I for one am not confident that the interpretation of legal decisions like Title IX are the answer, but then in some situations where there is clear discrimination, or a misunderstanding of what is and is not appropriate, then legal decisions have to be made.

One area Richard where I can see possible discrimination but, will admit I have no proof of it. I, as well as many others know of athletes being discriminated against in some capacities, this is especially true in team sports but not as evident in sports like swimming or wrestling where one on one competition takes place. I believe, again, not having proof here, it takes place because not all athletes, or their parents have the funds or means to fight that discrimination, although that is another topic. By the way this is for all sports, not just wrestling. You made mention though, and a valid point, that most if not all schools have wrestle off's regarding wrestling. I would ask though who scores those sometimes weekly wrestle off's? Is it the coaches? I also know that how quick back points, or a close out of bounds take down is called can sometimes make the difference in a close match. I again, am not saying that I know that these things go on, but neither would it surprise me if they did. I would hope that if they did that teammates and other coaches would stand up and do what is right. A question of concern from a coach, student, or parent will certainly go a long way in today’s society at seeing to it that this type of possible “discrimination” don’t take place. If however, those individuals are silent when they see these things happen, then it will certainly continue.

I will say this; thankfully, the young ladies are getting their fair share of attention and are getting better. I have the honor of going into and watching some of the Derby High School practices and know that there are several girls with the club that if they were with other clubs they would be starting, but the fact that they are in a tough room, and at tough weights makes it difficult. I also know that Coach Ross is as fair as anyone could or would want, I am honored to know him because he is as fair a man as I know, he truly sees wrestlers, not men and or women, and once putting on the shoes, singlet and stepping on the mat that is how it should be. Those young women from Derby are doing quite well though and it won't surprise me to eventually see them and others at other schools at the varsity level.

Just this last week, I saw a finals match at Salina with two girls. I watched closely because one of the young ladies was Amber Graebner (Tyler's sister). By the way, Coach Ed, you want to check her out, she, and the other girl she wrestled are both fine wrestlers. My point here is that things are changing, although in some communities slowly. Thankfully, Kansas is on the forefront of seeing to it that that change takes place. Is there work to be done yet? You bet there is, and hopefully we can have as many people on board as possible to assist with that change to see to it that we provide the most and best opportunities possible to all of our wrestlers.

Tony, I also wanted to say thanks for your kind words about me and my family, if you only knew. You and your family are welcome at my house any time.

We have actively working on a location for the USAW KS Girls Cahmpionships. If anyone has a 1/2 day or so available, we can make you a deal. We will do the work and supply the medals.

Email or call 316-721-5122, if you can help out.

Also we have picked some days for all state practices in Wichita-so the girls can start planning. I have to confirm a coupel of things and then I will post. Any suggestions or requests will be considered.

Ms. Jenni

Coach Ed & Jenni,
If you have a date, Lennie and I would be glad to check into some of our facilities here in the BIG town of McPherson.

Lance,

We would love to do it in MAC. You can pick the date, but as you know this is little left to pick from. Please call me at 316-990-8914. I can call you back as I have free long distance. Thanks, I hope we can work this out.

Ms. Jenni

Lance,
We would love to come to McPherson for our USA KS state championship. After checking with the calendar, the free sunday's are in March, 13, and 27(except the KK is going to the USGWA nationals in MI.). Our club has a clinic on March 13(so if you can please avoid that date). But on March 20 is the 6 and under state championship in Ottawa. I don't have a accurate count of 6 and unders now but will closer to my tournament. As soon as you make a date, let me know and I will pass out flyers and announce it at my tournament, and hit my email list.
If we can make it, our club will check into a bus to help some of the NE girls to make it.
Thanks

USGWA Nationals is on the 19th. I don't think there will be a conflict with either date of the 13th or the 27th.

Thanks for all your input, I will call Jenni tonight and see what works for them. We are hosting the District tournament on the 19th, since that is when the National tournament is that doesn't sound like a good choice. If there is a problem with the weekends in March, what about the first weekend of April? I know that is the National Folkstyle weekend and Reno, would that affect the girls much?

Yes, because that first weekend in April is MO Valley Womens Showcase. All girls/women need to try to attend this tourney. The Kansas Krusaders will be there and we are arranging for a bus to transport. I don't have the final costs yet, but this is a for sure and I will post final numbers and info next week.

Lance -- I sent you a private email with all the dates. I have outlined the whole season through Fargo at the end of July. Mr. Mercer will be posting it soon on the Kansas Krusaders website and the forum.

We are also finalizing the bus trip to the USGWA Nationals in Michigan on March 19-20. All girls are eligible to ride the bus.

We are ordering new singlets, warm ups etc. so we should look good again. Keep checking for all the info in the next week.

Ms. Jenni

Jenni,
Karissa will need new warm-ups and a new singlet.

Lance,
Our calendar just cleared up for March 13, so if you want to have it on that date, we will be there.
Thanks
Prairie Fire Wrestling

My daughter Hanna and myself were allowed to wrestle and travel with the Krusaders last season just like the Avallones. We also are from Oklahoma. It was an honor and privilege to be a part of this group. Coach Ed and Ms. Jenni and their kids are some of the finest people we've ever meet. Hanna has been so tied up with the Jr high team this year we haven't seen you guys so far this season. We'll be at USGWA Nationals. See ya there! Coach Ed or Ms. Jenni, e-mail me if you get a chance.
Steve Martin

To all who are concerned,

The reason you are not seeing Krusaders wrestling at tournaments. They are with their home club we are not a "CLUB" we are the kansas state team. I have to always reassure coaches and clubs that we are not a club. Our goal is not to steal girls yet enrich their opportunities for scholarships and national recognition. We provide a service for girls in the state of Kansas to wrestle as a team on the regional,national and,state dual level. The only way to get girls wrestling in middle and high schools is to show the participation and success of girls in the forefront of wrestling. In my dream there is boy's wrestling and girl's wrestling seperate but equal. That resolves so many problems that keep parents from letting their girls get involved in the greatest and oldest sport around.

Coach Ed
Kansas Womens Director

Coach Ed:

I get a little agitated when you say the Krusaders are a "kansas state team" when obviously this team is not a Kansas team. Perhaps you are unaware, but Oklahoma does have a Girls Division.

Team Oklahoma Bad Girl Wrestling

When we allow athletes from other states to participate with the Kansas team we become some form of regional team.

I believe inclusion of out of state participants violates Article IX of the By-Laws of United States of America Wrestling Association, Inc.

Article IX
State Associations
9.1 State Associations Generally. The corporation shall conduct its affairs in the United States through recognized state associations which are formed to foster the purposes and carry out the programs of the corporation in a geographically defined area."

and further

"9.1.7 If there exists no State Association, the Board of Directors may grant approval for the individuals or teams in that state to register with and participate in the State Association of another state, provided the host state agrees and can fulfill its responsibility to these additional members."

USA Wrestling By-Laws

Pages 25 and 27.

Has approval from USA Wrestling Board of Directors been received for the out of state participants?

I would think it to be highly irregular for approval of an out of state athlete to participate when their home state has a girls division.

Richard,

Yes they have. As a matter of fact, we have permission all the back to Colorado Springs. As a matter of fact, they are encouraging and/or requiring that we include any interested girls in the region, until such time that the numbers become so large that it would hamper the services we provide to Kansas girls. At the time that we inlcuded OK girls, they did not have a "state team" and there may be such a time when they will not be included but that will be decided when the time comes. This "good will" has opened many doors and will infact help us to provide additional help with items such as transportation in the future. We have been working closely with all the director's of all states that are active with girls and will continue to do so until it becomes necessary to "re-look" at things. I feel this is only "semantics" that is catching your toe. I can assure you that all the "powers that be" are aware of every move and choice we make for the girls.

They tell me it was like this for freestyle/greco back in "the day" when they were new too. Have you ever been "new" to something, Richard? It can be made easier or more difficult just by the responses we choose to make.

Hopefully, this will assist you with your agitation. I will probably not be able to respond any further this pm as I do work for a living.

Ms. Jenni

Yes, Ms. Jenni I am new to this concept!

You appear to be defensive whenever one questions these actions. These are legitimate questions which have been asked, and as you well know, allowing out of state participants is certainly well out of the norm.

I can not speak to the freestyle - greco issue as that is also relatively new to me.

Thank you for the prompt reply as my question has now been answered!

You are very welcome. I guess I may be defensive. I remains to be seen whether it is for legitimate reasons or not.

ms. jenni

Richard,
The Team Oklahoma Bad girl that you refer to is not a club in the same sense as the Krusaders.

1. The Krusaders have organized practices, the bad girls do not.
2. The Krusaders have team uniforms, the bad girls do not.

I am not knocking what the bad girls are trying to do, but right now it is pretty much just a group of girls that have giving themselves a name. Jerry Miller who I believe is the man in charge of this group is awesome, he has giving me advice and told me about girl tournaments when Karissa was just starting 5yrs ago. In fact he was the one that first mentioned Coach Ed and the Krusaders to me as a possible place for Karissa to wrestle. Then a couple of years ago both of my children were invited to wrestle with Wichita East after Oklahoma’s season was over, which we did up till your Districts and subs started we never compete in these. I saw this as an opportunity for my children to learn from Different coaching styles, and workout partners which would benefit all children involved.
They have also participated in summer freestyle with Arkansas City, where they also play Baseball and Softball. We first met Coach Ed and Jenni at Derby’s girl’s tournament last year, at which time Karissa was invited to workout with and be a part of the Krusaders. I never wrestled as a child so all I know is what I have seen my children taught and to me it is worth the 45 minute drive to have someone of Coach Ed's caliber teach my children. We do not intend any malice towards The Kansas program or any Kansas wrestler by our presence there. We only want to enrich our wrestling knowledge and skills, which I believe only helps Kansas wrestlers that we come in contact with by exposing them to styles we have learned here in Oklahoma.
Kansas as a state should be proud that they have Coaches and programs that draw wrestlers from other places to come and learn from them.
In ending I just want to say that it is all for the children who will eventually become the leaders of this great Nation we call AMERICA.
Thank you.
Tony Avallone

miz jenny:

hit me up with some stuff, ya know i can get a building in lawrence any time the girls need it.

--brett shoffner

Let's get back to the original topic - developing a ranking system so we can produce an All-Kansas Girls High School team. The Krusaders need your nominations and Friday, February 18, 2005 is the last day to submit girls for consideration. If you haven't already nominated the tough girl wrestler on your team or the girl on another team that your wrestlers hate to face in competition, please, take a moment to recognize these wrestlers so they have a chance to be listed on a state team for women wrestlers. Nomination forms can be downloaded off the Kansas Krusaders web site. Thank you.

Jeff