From what I've heard, those affected will be back in the practice room next week sometime. They will miss the Rosehill tournament.

I have pretty much stayed out of this until this evening. First and utmost they are kids and kids do make mistakes, for that matter so do adults. The school, coaching staff and parents have issued out the appropriate discipline, the wrestlers are serving it and will recover from it. I heard something this evening that irritated me to no ends. A high school coach had stated that some of the team will not be wrestling the rest of the year for the incident. That statement is not true, they are serving the appropriate discipline and will be back next week. That being said I personally would like any and all negative comments to hault. To the wrestlers, keep your heads up and put yourselves together and build on this. I know you can and will and remember that you have more wrestling to do. Good luck and we will see you at State.


Coach Miller

If it is true that they will be back wrestling next week, they are fortunate that Derby does not have the same policy as our school district. The Shawnee Mission district has a zero tolerance policy - every athlete signs an Alcohol/Tobacco/Drug contract which includes:

FIRST OFFENSE IN SEASON VIOLATION:
A conference including a building administrator, the student, parents/guardians of the student,and the coach or sponsor will be conducted. If verification is found to be sufficient by school administration, the student will be suspended from participation in all extra-curricular competition/practices for the remainder of the current season.

I'm not saying this policy is the correct one, but it certainly is clear. We have lost star athletes in a couple of sports over the years because they violated this contract.

its unfortunate that the shawnee mission school district has taken that policy. i believe that discipline should not be to punish kids but rather to change behavior. obviously you do have to punish kids to an extent in that. but if you give the one and done punishment the kid has little reason to not continue what he or she is doing. however if the first time serves as a wake up call there is a good chance the kid will change his behavior accordingly, which is what i believe the ultimate goal should be.

Side note: a young man named Ryan Lilja missed his Senior football season because of the Shawnee Mission alcohol policy. This Sunday he will start at left guard for the Colts in the super bowl.....no real point to that, just a bit interesting to see that it didnt have a negative impact on his career in the long run. in fact, who knows, it may have kept him from tearing up a knee or something...

I recall reading that Ryan Lilja lost scholarship offers due to missing his senior season after violating the SMSD alcohol contract. He spent 2 years at Coffeyville Community College before transfering to Kansas State. When he made it to the Pros, he talked about how that poor decision as a high school athlete made it much tougher for him to acheive his goals. He is an excellent example of overcoming adversity.

Nothing like giving the death penalty for shoplifting. I would bet that it is much harder for teachers and administrators to look for "verification" under that policy than under a more reasonable punishment.

What is the appropriate first offense punishment? I honestly do not know. In this particular incident I am very confident that the parents, school administrators and coaches will come to the correct decisions for all of the student athletes and managers involved.

Is the Shawnee Mission policy too severe? At first look it does seem to be. On the other side though the punishment should not be too lenient either. It should serve both as a deterrent for possible future offenders and as a corrective punishment for those who have violated the rule. I know from personal experience back in the seventies that I needed more severe punishment for these type of offenses. I think I would have stopped drinking alcohol sooner if my earlier offenses had been dealt with more severely.

I remember reading about Ryan Lilja's offense and punishment when he was a senior in high school. I felt the punishment was too severe at the time. I would probably still say that for a first offense. But in Lilja's case maybe it did work out for the best. Perhaps if the punishment had been less severe, it might not have sent a strong enough message to Ryan and who knows what might have happened then. Perhaps it has prevented other Shawnee Mission students from doing the same thing over the years.

Again I do not know what the appropriate punishment should be for a first offense and I am completely confident that the responsible parties will make the proper decision in this case. But I also cannot just say that the Shawnee Mission policy is just outright wrong.

I wish the Furches and all the families of those involved good luck and God's grace in dealing with this situation. They are all good families and people and with God's help they would come out of this stronger as individuals and families.

I agree. Very well said Vince.

When I wrestled in the shawnee mission district there was no drug/alcohol policy, and like a lot of other high school students I did drink at parties at what not. The fact of the matter is that right, wrong, or indifferent, there is a "death penalty" policy in Shawnee Mission. Do I agree with it? Actually I am not sure. I am curious to know wether any other districts have such a policy in place. The fact of the matter is I like a lot of other people when they were in high school made stupid decisions. Heck we all thought we were invincable. And I can tell you this truthfully that while I was in season I never got near the stuff but had I ever been kicked off, I am pretty sure that I would have gone to the next party. Now that doest make it right but I know that is what a majority of those affected do. However It really upsets me that when a student gets in trouble he/she is usually labled as a "bad kid." Anyway I will get off of my soap box now.

i guess i believe when in doubt, error on the side of the kid. i also believe strongly in 2nd chances. my logic tells me, if a kid is really that bad he'll blow the 2nd chance to and get whats coming in the end anyways.

I don't have an answear to what is right and what is wrong, but back in the 80's Eddie Borror was a senior, 18 was the legal drinking age and Eddie was seen drinking a beer at Pizza Hut with his family. It was reported to the school district. Eddie ranked #1 in the state and a returning Oklahoma State Champion was kicked off of the team. His parents hired an attorney and got him back on the team. The AVL coaches refused to allow their wrestlers to wrestle Eddie the rest of his season. He was finally kicked off of the team ending his season. That was a harsh punishment handed out by the school district and the AVL, but I never forgot it and because of that I never put myself in that position 10 years later. Kicking a kid off of the team can deter others but I don't think it is the right thing to do, the first time.

I feel bad for these Derby kids, because it sounds like what they did was not all that bad. But with peer pressure on teenagers the way it is, the punishment has to be severe enough to force them to make a good choice.
Lets face it; whats more unbearable, having your son or daughter kicked off a sports team, or hearing about a terrible alcohol/drug related accident?

jeez, its not like they committed murder or selling crack, its getting blown out of proportion, this happens everywhere, the kids that do it know if they eff up, its on them, no excuses. the measurement of the punishment should depend on how severe it was that happend.

I think what most people are forgetting here is not only was a rule broken, but a law(s) were broken also. Yes, it is still illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to consume or possess alcohol. I don’t consider this offense too horrible by any means, but I don’t believe it should be taken lightly either. Rolling through a stop sign seems pretty harmless to most until someone is injured or killed because of it. I don’t know the specifics of this incident so I really don’t know what the proper punishment should be. But, all too often athletes tend to get a hand-slapping instead of a true punishment. Are athletes/celebrities held to a higher standard than others? In my opinion, yes. Are athletes/celebrities also given a more lenient punishment than others? Again, yes. How many times over the years have we seen athletes/celebrities that commit a minor offense, absolved of it, and then commit a more malicious crime later. The sporting ranks are full of stories like this on all levels.

People are looking at this whole situation as minor infraction on the surface, but what possible ramifications could have resulted from it? Well, there a multitude of possibilities. For one; the coach and others could have lost their jobs and the ability to provide for their families. All because of the actions of a teenager(s). Are you starting to see a bigger picture now? To me this is a pretty serious possibility that in the past has happened to others.

I know of one coach who caught one of his wresters drinking at the hotel during the state tournament and the coach had him arrested and then informed the parents. That young man wasn’t allowed to wrestle again. The young man was made an example of, and it was his choice to put himself in that situation. Who cares if they are state champion(s). It doesn’t matter. The lives of others could have been affected. And, I don’t believe that placing an apology on the web deserves a pat on the back for courageousness or bravery.

Now I don’t want to come off as being heartless and cruel. I don’t think these young people in question should be ostracized by wrestling community. But from what I have read on this forum a week of suspension is pretty lenient in my opinion, and possibly what I read was incorrect. Sports unlike education are privileges that we are not entitled to by law. I think the true character builder is not the sport itself, and if that was the case the sport itself failed in this instance. Character is built by overcoming adversity of life and not training for or competition in a sport. If ones future success is dependent upon success and achievement in athletics I would find another table to gamble at because the odds are not in your favor.

As for the Shawnee Mission policy it is absurd to even jokingly compare the death penalty to being kicked off a sports team. And, shoplifting is still a theft no matter how you look at it. As long as the kids are aware of the policy it it is a fair policy. There is absolutely too much gray area that is considered in these cases today.

Mr. Grapple, although I see what you are saying, I am thinking maybe you aren't seeing the bigger picture. It is understood by everyone that the drinking was wrong, but the fact that some person decided to publicly manifest the incident and totally blow things out of proportion(i.e. Nathan was running around naked?!?) is something completely unfair to Nathan and all the others involved.

Since some ignorant fellow proclaimed the incident to the world, and made them look like deliquents, Nathan had every single right to post an apology and show his point of view of the situatioon. Not only did Nathan have to overcome the adversity of making a poor decision, he had to deal with the unethical actions of others, and he has done so quite well in my oppinion.
Also, you assume the only way these wrestlers are being punished is by sitting out a week? I'll bet the disciplinary actions that parents hand down make this week suspension look like a treat. As you said, there is a lot more to life than sports, and from what I can see, these families are instilling this and many other important ideas into these children.

Grapple-
You say that athletes are given more lenient punishments then others. however thats not quite the case, in this example if Nathan Furches wasn't an athlete there would be virtually no punishment, not to mention the mistakes of non athletes are not publicized, so from that standpoint these kids(especially Furches) were punished more then non athletes..
second off all, your comparison about athletes/celebrities dealing with being absolved of one crime and then committing another one more malicious seems to be talking with professional athletes and celebrities. that is not what were dealing with here. we have high school kids between the ages of 15-18. making that comparison is apples and oranges.
also i have to wonder, what do you find admirable in a person? everyone makes mistakes in life whether they are of high character or not character. people of high character admit to those mistakes and apologize to those it negativly effected. i'm not saying that posting an apology online is an act of ultimate heroism, but if you don't respect a man for owning up to his mistakes and apologizing to those they effected i have to wonder about who do respect.
you also say there is to much grey considered in cases today. unfortunatly sir, life usually doesn't deal with matters of black and white.
yes, the kids were given a fairly lenient punishment. but whats wrong with that? a little grace, mercy, and a second chance is what all of us would want if we were in the situation.

Well said 007. I know that I am more inclined to do better when given 'a little grace, mercy and a second chance'. Lets save the crushing sledge hammer blows for those that have had multi-offenses. Thats my two cents worth anyway.

The fact of the matter is this. This should of never been posted on the internet. It should of been handled by the coaches, the Derby administration and the parents, period! It is time to let this subject go.

Thanks jojo, I agree with you. I think just about everyone has put their 2cts worth on this subject. It's time to let this post die!!!

Honesty, I don't think this is going to deter very many of these kids from drinking again in the future. Those who chose to drink that night, and those who choose to drink underage in the future, know that what they're doing is wrong and against the law. It's not as if now that they've been publicly reprimanded that they're going to realize it's anymore wrong than it was before. Furthermore, I have a hard time believing that the thought of missing one week of sports/activities is really going to instill fear in a kid who wants to drink at a party. Sure it's an inconvenience, but all in all it's not a big deal to most kids, as it shouldn't be. I mean really, how upset are you when you have to miss a tournament because of ringworm? Annoyed? Yes. Heartbroken? Hardly.

These policies are in place to serve as an absolute deterrant to kids drinking alcohol while they're in high school and I believe that the thought of missing an entire season is a little more daunting than missing a week of practice. As a result of that, I believe that less kids will end up drinking. And isn't that the point of these policies to begin with? To stop underage drinking?

Let's be frank. This suspension will not result in any drastic changes in the activities of these kids. Those who want to drink will, and those who don't won't. Hell, if this hadn't been publicized then I have a hard time believing any of these kids would have been too deeply affected at all. At Shawnee Mission East I know plenty of kids who make a great effort to not only abstain from drinking alcohol, but to distance themselves from it completely and that is because of the severity of the punishment. And as I already stated, that's the point of these policies in the first place.