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 Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: Disney]
#104543
03/07/07 08:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Scott Fausset
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301 |
I agree Barry. Payne did what the team asked of him and more. He wrestled a great match, period.
I saw MO wrestlers stalling last night - on bottom, neutral, and top. But I saw more "smart wrestling" than anything else. Both teams put on a great showing.
It does a real dis-service to everyone when you imply that your opponent beat you with less than his best effort - it's just whining.
Last edited by Scott Fausset; 03/07/07 08:22 PM.
You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: Scott Fausset]
#104548
03/07/07 09:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 118
wrestlingAlum
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 118 |
I believe 2 of O'Donnells losses this year were to the guy who wrestled right after him, from Park Hill...
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: wrestlingAlum]
#104550
03/07/07 09:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,152
LancerM
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I posted "Better luck next year!" on their topic and they deleted it. It looks like they're taking this well. Good work Team Kansas!
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: LancerM]
#104572
03/08/07 12:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 110
resslnfan
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 110 |
Disney is right on. Way to go Team Kansas!
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: resslnfan]
#104574
03/08/07 12:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
RailerMulePanther
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Posts: 35 |
Here are my camparisions with what you said regarding football and basketball to wrestling.
Would the football team snap the ball when the play clock ran out and then just run around behind the line of scrimmage to waste time and then jump out of bounds?
Would the basketball team let the shoot clock expire and then just before it does try to just hit the rim so the shoot clock can restart?
By the way...stalling is not within the rules...you get penalized for it. You get a warning, penalty points, then you are defaulted from the match.
I am from Kansas, live in Kansas, wrestled in Kansas, I have been extremely impressed with how Kansas has looked the last two years at this event. They have appreared to be in better shape and have more of a want to than Missouri has. I am just dissapointed that the last match was wrestled the way it was, I dont think it did either wrestler justice as to the type of athlete they both are. What would have been the reaction if last year Levi Thompson would have blatanly ran from Levi to preserve a MO win last year.
Once again, I was for the most part very imressed with the job that was done by the Kansas team and wish their wrestlers and coaches the best of luck in the future.
"Once you've wrestled everything in life is easy"
Dan Gable
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104575
03/08/07 12:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 55
Andy Hurla
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How could Levi Thompson have ran away? The match was tied and his team was only up by two? That doesn't add up to me....
It may not be what you want to see or hear, but kids who know they are outmatched often wrestle to avoid bonus points to help out the team. It was the smart thing to do!
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: Andy Hurla]
#104576
03/08/07 01:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
RailerMulePanther
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Posts: 35 |
agreed there is a smart way to wrestle to not give up bonus points...that is part of the strategy of the sport that makes is a team sport. I guess I am just a little ignorant that I have never seen the type of stategy of avoding your opponent.
As I stated before I just felt it was an injustice to both of the wrestlers abilities not to showcase them in an All-Star dual.
"Once you've wrestled everything in life is easy"
Dan Gable
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104578
03/08/07 01:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 24
crazy4wrestling
Junior Member
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I didn't see much offense from Bradley either. He just kept pushing Payne out of bounds. That could be construed as stalling on Bradley's part too. How many shots did Bradley take? Be honest! He just pushed!
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: crazy4wrestling]
#104579
03/08/07 01:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 44
muffdiver0707
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Payne did what he had to do to win. He's a team player. Bradley only took half shots... when they were close to the out-of-bounds line. He never took a decent shot in the middle of the mat. And he was blocking Payne from having a offense. If thats the best heavyweight in the nation... cant wait to see how he matches up in college. Oh by the way he showed great sportsmanship after his match... lol
RailerMulePanther if you live in Kansas why does your location say MO... Yeah i would be mad too if my team lost this dual.
BAGAAAWK!!!!
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: muffdiver0707]
#104581
03/08/07 01:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
RailerMulePanther
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35 |
Once again...I would have liked to see Payne WRESTLE with him. It is a great win for Kansas and again congratulations to the coaches and wrestlers.
Dom Bradley is ranked either 1 or 2 in the nation, not sure which one. His lose this year came from Elijah Madison who I believe moved from Kansas to Oak Park, not sure though. He did show pretty poor sportsmanship at the end of the match you are right, almost like thompson did when he beat ellis two years both pretty classless acts, not kids just acts. Bradley is going to MU next year so it shouldn't be too hard to keep track of him since you are interested, he will have to beat out mark ellis for the spot.
My location says MO because I teach and coach in Missouri, I wrestled at CMSU and have a Missouri teaching certificate, but reside in Kansas. Can't quite bring myself to claim residency over there. I am not mad and apologize if it has come across that way. Once again, being an all-star dual I felt it was an injustice to the two heavyweights to not be able to wrestle each other. It is an all-star dual, both were selected because of the abilities and acheivements they worked very hard for; not to stall out the match.
Last edited by RailerMulePanther; 03/08/07 01:53 AM.
"Once you've wrestled everything in life is easy"
Dan Gable
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104583
03/08/07 02:10 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 215
Disney
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 215 |
RailerMulePanther -
I understand your frustration. Perhaps in coming years they could draw the starting weight so it doens't always come down to the big boys.
I watched Payne wrestle just a couple weeks ago at the state tournament. From what I saw his style is to keep the matches close and wait for the other guy to mess up. In other words, a typical heavyweight wrestler. I am not sure that even if the dual had already been decided you would have seen a much different match. And it was a good strategy. If things would have went different or Dom made a misstake then who knows?
And you are right -- stalling is a penalty. But point is that Joe took his penalties and Dom got the points so Joe played within the rules.
And yes - a football or basketball team would do just what you described if it would get them a victory.
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104589
03/08/07 02:38 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 222
wrestlingfan65
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Posts: 222 |
All i know is when i looked at the match ups i thought we were smoked, and i am usually pretty optimistic about that kind of stuff, last year i thought we would even win. Even if Payne did wrestle not to loose, how many times at the end of duals have you heard coaches say "joe dirt won us the match keeping it close and not giving them any extra points" i have heard it quite a few times. Anyways, all im saying is kansas won and payne did what he had to do to make it happen.
Jason Malay
__________________________________________
So that makes you a Jewfin?
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: grappleman1]
#104608
03/08/07 03:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 181
Akin Wrestling
OP
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 181 |
Mr Welsh--
I believe Mr Akin can comment on the Nay and O'Donnell kid. I've witnessed him working out with both of them. For sure these are a couple of studs I expect to hear about for years to come. . . college. . .international. . etc. Neither one of these guys would ever shy away from competition. Nay could end up being Asics wrestler of the year this year. Both should win Jr titles this year. . IMO.
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104611
03/08/07 04:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,433
Chief Renegade
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,433 |
Here are my camparisions with what you said regarding football and basketball to wrestling.
Would the football team snap the ball when the play clock ran out and then just run around behind the line of scrimmage to waste time and then jump out of bounds?
Would the basketball team let the shoot clock expire and then just before it does try to just hit the rim so the shoot clock can restart?
By the way...stalling is not within the rules...you get penalized for it. You get a warning, penalty points, then you are defaulted from the match.
I am from Kansas, live in Kansas, wrestled in Kansas, I have been extremely impressed with how Kansas has looked the last two years at this event. They have appreared to be in better shape and have more of a want to than Missouri has. I am just dissapointed that the last match was wrestled the way it was, I dont think it did either wrestler justice as to the type of athlete they both are. What would have been the reaction if last year Levi Thompson would have blatanly ran from Levi to preserve a MO win last year.
Once again, I was for the most part very imressed with the job that was done by the Kansas team and wish their wrestlers and coaches the best of luck in the future. If you think that Payne blatantly ran, then you didn't see the match. Bradley pushed him off the mat each time. Carl folded to the Missouri crowd on the stalling calls. I could see the call when Joe was on bottom but not when they were nuetral.
Eric Johnson
Acts 4:12
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: Chief Renegade]
#104625
03/08/07 12:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
RailerMulePanther
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35 |
I think it would be very cool if they were to draw starting weights; it would allow the biggins to wrestle. I know that it wouldn't get rid of the pressure that can sometimes come with being the last match of a dual but it might change it up.
I guess my biggest arguement is the fact of my frustration of the kids not being able to wrestle in this all-star format. Payne did do what the team needed him to do....and yes Chief to answer your statment...I did see the match.
"Once you've wrestled everything in life is easy"
Dan Gable
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104653
03/08/07 04:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301
Scott Fausset
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 301 |
Oh pleeeeaaazzzzeee.
1. Payne gave up points to save points.
2. Dom was unable to get the job done.
3. RailerMulePanther continues to deliberately berate a wrestler on a public forum...in anonymity...a MO coach/teacher...mmmm?
Hey billybob, I think it would be even more cooler if you'd (RailerMulePanther) face the opposition (this crowd) half as well as Payne did.
You can’t stop the waves, but you can learn to surf. -- Joseph Goldstein
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: Scott Fausset]
#104662
03/08/07 05:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35
RailerMulePanther
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 35 |
Scott, I think you are taking this a little personal. I am not berating anyone...as I stated before I am in no means angry. My frustration is that I would have liked to see the two heavyweights wrestle. Kansas winning is bitter sweet for me, yes I coach in Missouri and would have received a lot of grief if Missouri would have won. Payne did what his team needed, I would have however liked to have seen him wrestle.
The kansas team did a great job getting ready for the dual and again congrats to the wrestlers and coaches. See you all next year!
"Once you've wrestled everything in life is easy"
Dan Gable
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: RailerMulePanther]
#104724
03/09/07 01:02 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 208
wrestle007
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 208 |
i dont think railmulepanther is berating payne. i think he is saying he would have liked to see an aggressive match between 2 very talented heavyweights. as a kansas fan, i'm glad payne did what he did to preserve the dual victory. if i'm an unbiased wrestling fan going to the dual i'm disappointed from the standpoint of watching 2 very good wrestlers go at it. one thing no one has mentioned is...what if payne would have won had he wrestled aggressively? i mean, he pretty much insured he would lose by how he wrestled, not that i think thats wrong. i'm glad he got the win for KS, but i would have enjoyed seeing an aggressive match.
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: wrestle007]
#104736
03/09/07 02:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 83
wrestler1086
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 83 |
If someone can suck up their own pride for the team I say kudos to them!
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Re: Dream team goes down!
[Re: wrestler1086]
#104740
03/09/07 02:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 275
TRAVIUS.com
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 275 |
At one of the practices I believe the Monday before right after weigh ins one of the Kansas Coaches said remember that this is NOT a tournament it is a dual. Its not about individual pride but team pride. Do not give up the 6 points.
Its not over yet...
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