Sir Richard… you know me I’m always chillin! But people look over this self-proclaimed expert of wrestling wisdom as an authority of the states best wrestlers. He needs to get of the Metro Area more often!

Now wait a minute Richard you heretic you . . .

I smell the fires a burning!

Hot, hotter, hot . . .

This is the Gospel according to Chief!

;-)

(No disrepect to either, I enjoy and I am thankful that you both posts such good and helpful info to the board - i was trying to be funny)

pw,

Does he have any losses to those behind him? A kid can only wrestle those in his bracket. I know he lost to Dylan Joiner in the finals at BIT, ahead of Arb, Wuthnow and Baughman.

pw,

A nice talking point, but are their any specific snubs that you can see against the non metro kids or did you not think before you wrote that? Of the 106 ranked All-Class wrestlers, 76 are outside of the KC Metro area. Where is the Metro bias?

How many guys does he have ranked number 1 from the Metro Area?

I do not mean to disrespect your efforts… my point is that some of this would be better left alone it serves no purpose to anybody. There are class rankings that the Coaches support, yours should have a disclaimer attached stating this your opinion and make of it what you want. I have been to the four corners of the state and watched some the best 45lber’s around. I have never claimed to be an expert nor have I attempted to parlay my passion into some sort of self worth! Let the marbles fall where they may in a couple of weeks. It is senseless to even compare young men that will never meet during the course of the season.

As mentioned in a previous thread, soon, all opinion will give way to results on the mat. I'd venture a guess that the final rankings set forth in these threads will, in large measure, prove to be reasonably accurate. Sure,there will likely be some tweaking here and there (unfortunately, no one has fairy dust they can magically sprinkle in the air to assert a guarantee), but the odds are that it will pretty much be the same mix of wrestlers already identified in the rankings. Hide and watch.

Mark,

In my answer, I'll try not to claim to be an expert or parlay my passion into some sort of self worth. I also hope that it serves more than "no purpose to anybody". Let me fill you in on the individual class rankings. They are also opinions. Mel Miller and myself currently maintain the 6A rankings that you speak of. Every class ranking as well as the All-Class ranking are maintained through input of coaches, wrestlers, fans and parents. For a guy that has been to the four corners of the state, you really think that these wrestlers never meet each other? Just the opposite is true. Most of them have met on the mat. Are you also opposed to the national ranking services? How are these rankings not letting the marbles fall where they may? Your opinion on these rankings are truly one-of-a-kind. Am I not ranking Manhattan kids high enough?

How many of the wrestlers in the All-Class rankings have you personally seen wrestle?
I began receiving personal messages and emails shortly after the All-Class rankings began and I can assure you there are many who share this same sentiment.
The individual class rankings are maintained by the KWCA and the designated ranking coordinator. The 3-2-1A Ranking Coordinator, the 4A Ranking Coordinator and the 5A Ranking Coordinator are all high school wrestling coaches. Only the 6A Ranking Coordinator(s) are not high school coaches. It is reasonable to conclude most forum members believe a high school wrestling coach to be far more credible than a parent who maintains his own personal "All-Class ranking".
As stated previously, Red's corner is crowded with supporters who share his "one-of-a-kind" opinion.
Is this sarcasm or are you attempting to poke a stick in the eye?

Richard,
There you go again, Have you seen the psychiatrist yet? I think you need to be medicated. Chill out. As for the rankings anyone who gets bent out of shape over these has a serious problem. Chief is doing this for fun, He is not trying to snub anyone. Come on people get a life, these rankings don't mean squat.

I support the Chief on this one. As a wrestler, I've never really taken rankings all that seriously, so I see no harm in somebody posting an all class rankings based on opinions. I think it's good for the forum as it stirs up some debate. In no way is it completely accurate though, as wrestlers can be beaten on any certain day and many of these kids trade off wins throughout the season.

P.S. bonus points to red for using parlay in a sentence!

Richard,

I have personally seen 94 of the 106 ranked wrestlers. How many have you seen wrestle? With over 31000 views, you think that nobody is interested? I have had many coaches call or e-mail me with input. You are the 2nd person that has stated they find no value in the rankings. My own personal ranking? Do I detect ranking envy?

I'm not partial to anyone in particular doing the all class ranking, but I definitely enjoy it. It gives me personally some insight to weights and wrestlers from other areas that I'm not readily familiar with. I dont beleive Chief appears to show any bias to a certain demographic area, and it seems obvious to me that he puts in a HUGE amount of his personal time into trying to be as accurate as humanly possible on something this subjective. It also seems to me that when someone suggests a different order he readily considers it. Most importantly it is OBVIOUSLY nothing official and no claims have been made that it is that I'm aware of!! I appreciate seeing it Chief and hope others that do will say so as well. If someone doesnt like it, I also hope they will post it just as Mark has, rather than sending it as a private message to a messanger.

I enjoy the ranking. My son is not yet in high school, but the 2 of us have watched a number of the kids mentioned in the rankings in kids club and at freestyle state and southern plains. The ranking allows us to track these kids and see where 'they make rank' within the state as a whole. In other words, the ranking create interest. We went to see our high school's league tourny this weekend, and believe me, we need more interest in wrestling. The Chief is trying to accomplish that. Its a great sport, lets get as much interest in it as we can. And, if you are going to say you mean no disrespect, then don't say something that is disrespectful. As he asked, what rankings do you disagree with. I have never seen the Chief disregard anyone's input.

First off I better clarify that I am a good friend of Chief Renegade so I am biased. But to be honest with you, if you like wrestling you too should be a friend of the Chief. He is the biggest wrestling in Kansas (even though he went to HS in Oklahoma.) The Chief will listen to anyone and has no secret agenda. I love all of the rankings and I appreciate the time the rankers have put into them. It is crazy that anyone should get worked up over an opinion and say the rankings are worthless. The Chief aims to entertain and inform which is a lot more than can be said about others who choose to spend an inordinate amount of time on this site.

Hail to the Chief!!

Please include me as an enthusiastic supporter of ranking wrestlers in the state of kansas, to particularly include, all-class wrestlers.

As well, suffice to say that in my opinion the Chief deserves a hearty note of thanks for his willingness to unselfishly devote his time, extensive knowledge and energy to this thankless task.

Throughout the wrestling season, the Chief has placed his considered OPINION on the line, for all to consider, debate and otherwise challenge. And the Kansas wrestling community has done just that as obviously reflected by the attention this particular thread has generated. It would not surprise me that the Chief has his personal "favorites" and/or "prejudices" (as we all do, to include those involved in ranking at any level, in any sport)- but if he does, he does a pretty good job of either suppressing or disguising same. He responds to all comments (positive and negative) in a very timely,civil manner. He has demonstrated, time and again, his willingness and ability to consider other's "opinions", and on countless occasions, has adjusted his "rankings" accordingly.

I believe that it was Winston Churchill, who, when asked about the concept of democracy, once stated: "Democracy is the absolute worst form of government there is ... except every other that has ever been tried". This sentiment captures my attitude involving rankings as a resource to give us an idea how our wrestlers from the various classes, "stack-up" (remember, there is no grand state competition). Of course, it would be better to allow all wrestlers to "face-off on the mat". It's just not possible nor practical.

As an aside, even if we were to abandon the practice of having a central depository of opinion(s) for the ranking of our wrestlers in this state, it would hardly end the debate, controversy and endless arguments as to who is better and/or best - we just wouldn't have anywhere or anyone to go to, to lend support and/or criticism for our own point of view. By my way of thinking, so long as we have competition, we'll always want to "keep-score": meaning, know who is ahead and who is behind, at any given point in time. Ranking serves as a vehicle for this purpose, imperfect though it may be.

Rankings motivate and, at times, probably intimidate wrestlers. Rankings invite controversy, debate and argument, among wrestlers,their coaches and fans; but, at least wrestling is being discussed - attention is being paid to the sport.

Everyone knows that rankings are opinions, which are the product of speculation, hearsay and whatever else anyone allows to enter their particular opinion process. So be it.

The Chief, in another thread, included comments which struck me as particularly true and worthy of repeat. In effect, he mentioned that a particular wrestler, at a given point in time "owns" that ranking. While I'm not exactly sure what he meant by that, I choose to believe that this sentiment at least contemplates the fact that a particular wrestler can always lay claim to the fact, that in someone else's considered opinion, this particular wrestler's status was, if for a brief period of time, exalted and he was celebrated as an elite wrestler. I like that!

I check the rankings regularly and although I don't always agree with the ranker, the rankings nonetheless gives me a pretty good point of reference as to how the various wrestlers in the various classes stack-up against each other. It definitely adds a dimension of intrigue and/or anticipation to match-ups between wrestlers.

Sorry to have droned on for so long. Chief - keep up the good work.

Well said. I agree 100%. Thanks to Bob Phillips, Cosmo, Chief, Chewie (I'll be looking for your regional/state predictions), coaches, fans and wrestlers for helping to satisfy my winter curiosity of the Kansas High School wrestling scene. Oh yea, and sometimes I thank Richard also.

State predictions take a long time to do because I work it out match for match. Regional predictions don't nearly take the time.

Revised:

103:
1. Kenneth Ornelas - 11 - CH
2. Jeff Vesta - 11 - MN
3. Isaac Ruiz - 10 - JC
4. Roger Windham - 11 - DB
5. Blaine Smith - 10 - SS
6. Dylan Penka - 9 - BC
7. Taylor Moeder - 9 - CB
8. Darin Stroot - 12 - AN
9. Caleb Seaton - 9 - BS

112:
1. James Wauer - 11 - WA
2. Tyler Stokes - 11 - GE
3. Alan Callahan - 11 - BAL
4. Daniel Deshazer - 9 - SH
5. Zach Tanenbaum - 9 - BVN
6. Symon Seaton - 9 - BL
7. Logan Singular - 10 - CC

119: (Toughest weight to rank!)
1. Jordan Keller - 12 - BC
2. Sharky Slyter - 11 - PA
3. Chase Nitcher - 10 - VC
4. Collin Hase - 12 - SL
5. Derrick Weller - 10 - PI
6. Ryne Cokeley - 9 - SJA
7. Parker Madl - 10 - BV
8. Jesse Barber - 12 - DC
9. Tyler Anderson - 11 - CC
10. Ribelin - 12 - RV
11. Nick Rockhold - 12 - BAL


125:
1. John Keller - 12 - BC
2. Nathan McCormick - 12 - BVN
3. Trent Cox - 11 - AN
4. Colt Rogers - 10 - SC
5. Zach Peters - 12 - AU
6. Connor McCarthy - 12 - STA

130:
1. Kendrick Maple - 11 - WH
2. Jake Tanenbaum - 12 - BVN
3. Matt Noblet - 12 - PA
4. Kevin Callahan - 12 - BAL
5. Tim Dunham - 12 - MZ
6. Trison Graham - 12 - AC
7t. Cameron Jesseph - 11 - CH
7t. Seth Mertins - 12 - VC

135:
1. CJ Napier - 11 - CO
2. Mitchell Means - 11 - GD
3. Chase Nelson - 11 - WH
4. Tony Livengood - 12 - BVN
5. Colby Crank - 11 - HT
6. Jacob Wagner - 12 - MN
7. Tommy Knapp - 12 - LN

140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE
3. Phillip Henes - 12 - ST
4. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE
5. Chris Wright - 12 - DC
6. Joey Lutz - 12 - SME
7. Eric Grant - 11 - ON
8. Russell Naylor - 11 - SH
9. AJ Stephens - 12 - GL

145:
1. Mitch Arnold - 12 - BC
2. Steven Miller - 12 - MN
3. Ryan Houlden - 11 - GD
4. Nathan Sommer - 11 - PV
5. Cody Eaton - 12 - BN
6. Todd Curtis - 10 - GE
7. Jordan Noll - 12 - ACC

152:
1. Kyle Detmer - 11 - BC
2. Brent Fisher - 12 - GD
3. Pete Tapia - 12 - WI
4. Chris Watson - 11 - ANC
5. Nick Flynn - 12 - LG
6. Jordan Meyer - 12 - SA
7. Justin Ringgold - 12 - WNW

160:
1. Sam Thoman - 12 - AN
2. Brandon Bonewell - 12 - GD
3. Ben Davis - 12 - CC
4. Cody Reinhart - 12 - DB
5. Tyler Rosenhamer - 12 - BC
6. Jordan Brown - 11 - PT
7. Marvio Tischauser - 12 - AB
8. Greg Curtis - 11 - GE

171:
1. Scott Elliott - 12 - AC
2. Boaz Beard - 11 - GD
3. Tyler Koehn - 12 - PT
4. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Phil Witt - 12 - LV
6. Blake Willman - 12 - CC
7. William Bowles - 12 - KH

189:
1. Romero Cotton - 12 - HT
2. Matt Baker - 12 - SME
3. Ryan Patterson - 12 - GP
4. Blake Long - 12 - DB
5. Mark Kolmer - 10 - EMP
6. Clinton Bruce - 12 - AC
7. Alex Rupnick - 12 - RV
8. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC

215:(When the 6th place kid is 27-1, it is officially a tough weight.)
1. Joe Bach - 12 - LB
2. Aaron Racette - 12 - OA
3. Jake Kober - 12 - SFT
4. Nick Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Kyle Caylor - 10 - WNW
6. Tyler Downs - 12 - DB
7. Jacob Cole - 12 - BC

285:
1. Atticus Disney - 12 - SH
2. Duane Zlatnik - 12 - RS
3. Woody Roberts - 12 - RV
4. Alex Thomas - 12 - NO
5. Bobby Doxon - 12 - GL
6. Spencer Hilley - 12 - CL
7. BJ Finney - 10 - AN

Changes have been made. Any more input out there?

103:
1. Kenneth Ornelas - 11 - CH
2. Jeff Vesta - 11 - MN
3. Isaac Ruiz - 10 - JC
4. Roger Windham - 11 - DB
5. Blaine Smith - 10 - SS
6. Dylan Penka - 9 - BC
7. Taylor Moeder - 9 - CB
8. Darin Stroot - 12 - AN
9. Caleb Seaton - 9 - BS

112:
1. James Wauer - 11 - WA
2. Tyler Stokes - 11 - GE
3. Alan Callahan - 11 - BAL
4. Daniel Deshazer - 9 - SH
5. Zach Tanenbaum - 9 - BVN
6. Symon Seaton - 9 - BL
7. Logan Singular - 10 - CC

119: (Toughest weight to rank!)
1. Jordan Keller - 12 - BC
2. Sharky Slyter - 11 - PA
3. Chase Nitcher - 10 - VC
4. Collin Hase - 12 - SL
5. Derrick Weller - 10 - PI
6. Ryne Cokeley - 9 - SJA
7. Parker Madl - 10 - BV
8. Jesse Barber - 12 - DC
9. Tyler Anderson - 11 - CC
10. Jarod Ribelin - 12 - RV
11. Nick Rockhold - 12 - BAL


125:
1. John Keller - 12 - BC
2. Nathan McCormick - 12 - BVN
3. Trent Cox - 11 - AN
4. Colt Rogers - 10 - SC
5. Connor McCarthy - 12 - STA
6. James Medlin - 11 - HES
7. Quinton Ford - 11 - PV
8. Bryce Hood - 10 - LB
9. Brett Lamar - 10 - SL
10. Aaron Patton - 11 - WV

130:
1. Kendrick Maple - 11 - WH
2. Jake Tanenbaum - 12 - BVN
3. Matt Noblet - 12 - PA
4. Kevin Callahan - 12 - BAL
5. Tim Dunham - 12 - MZ
6. Trison Graham - 12 - AC
7t. Cameron Jesseph - 11 - CH
7t. Seth Mertins - 12 - VC

135:
1. CJ Napier - 11 - CO
2. Mitchell Means - 11 - GD
3. Chase Nelson - 11 - WH
4. Tony Livengood - 12 - BVN
5. Colby Crank - 11 - HT
6. Jacob Wagner - 12 - MN
7. Tommy Knapp - 12 - LN

140:
1. Tyler Caldwell - 11 - GD
2. Aldon Isenberg - 12 - GE
3. Phillip Henes - 12 - ST
4. Cas Spangler - 12 - BE
5. Chris Wright - 12 - DC
6. Joey Lutz - 12 - SME
7. Eric Grant - 11 - ON
8. Russell Naylor - 11 - SH
9. AJ Stephens - 12 - GL

145:
1. Mitch Arnold - 12 - BC
2. Steven Miller - 12 - MN
3. Ryan Houlden - 11 - GD
4. Nathan Sommer - 11 - PV
5. Cody Eaton - 12 - BN
6. Todd Curtis - 10 - GE
7. Jordan Noll - 12 - ACC

152:
1. Kyle Detmer - 11 - BC
2. Brent Fisher - 12 - GD
3. Pete Tapia - 12 - WI
4. Chris Watson - 11 - ANC
5. Nick Flynn - 12 - LG
6. Jordan Meyer - 12 - SA
7. Justin Ringgold - 12 - WNW

160:
1. Sam Thoman - 12 - AN
2. Brandon Bonewell - 12 - GD
3. Ben Davis - 12 - CC
4. Cody Reinhart - 12 - DB
5. Tyler Rosenhamer - 12 - BC
6. Jordan Brown - 11 - PT
7. Marvio Tischauser - 12 - AB
8. Greg Curtis - 11 - GE

171:
1. Scott Elliott - 12 - AC
2. Boaz Beard - 11 - GD
3. Tyler Koehn - 12 - PT
4. Tanner Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Phil Witt - 12 - LV
6. Blake Willman - 12 - CC
7. William Bowles - 12 - KH

189:
1. Romero Cotton - 12 - HT
2. Matt Baker - 12 - SME
3. Ryan Patterson - 12 - GP
4. Blake Long - 12 - DB
5. Mark Kolmer - 10 - EMP
6. Clinton Bruce - 12 - AC
7. Alex Rupnick - 12 - RV
8. Joel Marrs - 12 - CC

215:(When the 6th place kid is 27-1, it is officially a tough weight.)
1. Joe Bach - 12 - LB
2. Aaron Racette - 12 - OA
3. Jake Kober - 12 - SFT
4. Nick Kriss - 12 - CB
5. Kyle Caylor - 10 - WNW
6. Tyler Downs - 12 - DB
7. Jacob Cole - 12 - BC

285:
1. Atticus Disney - 12 - SH
2. Duane Zlatnik - 12 - RS
3. Woody Roberts - 12 - RV
4. Alex Thomas - 12 - NO
5. Bobby Doxon - 12 - GL
6. Spencer Hilley - 12 - CL
7. BJ Finney - 10 - AN