I agree with Jeff, If you wrestle in a horse barn you take what you get: Haven't figured out why we can't wrestle in the colisieum, it's going broke but yet we wrestle in a horse barn? We will be wrestling there due to the fact this is our only way to make money through the year, (working the tourney) I feel this could be as big or bigger than Salina's tourney but only if we don't compare our kids to livestock!!! In the past high school state was held inside the colisium, why not Wichita's biggest kids tourney??? MAYBE IN THE FUTURE WITH THE DONTOWN ARENA, STATE WILL BE HELD IN WICHITA!!!!!!! Hate to see major clubs bow out of this tourney but understand and respect all wishes..

Coming from someone who has rode horseback, worked cattle, stomped, fell down, touched, splashed in, etc. the waste of both cattle and horses, for 3 days straight without a shower, I am not going to agree that horse do do is a threat to our children's health. A good old fashioned cattle roundup never caused me to have anything other than saddle rash.

For your info, the Bicentennial center, Tulsa convention center, Topeka Expocenter, and many other venues that your kids wrestle in, have rodeos, horse shows, etc. in them as well. We are probably stepping in someone's dog crap walking in the grass on the way up to some of our high school gyms. My wife has never contracted any disease changing our kids' diapers.

Would I like to see it in the Coliseum, yes. But if it costs 15k per day, keep it where it is. If someone cares to go out on a limb and take it over, commit to the 15k per day for the coliseum, raise entry fees, etc. and run it, more power to them. $20 for this caliber of tourney is a bargain.

I'm sorry, Beeson, you and I are usually on the same page, but I believe you are missing out on a good opportunity for your kids by not wrestling the Classic.

Note that his "wife" changes the diapers. He can make many but change few....

Ms Jenni

Watch your hat!

I will never admit publicly that I have ever changed a soiled diaper. But it isn't because I am afraid of getting a skin disease. Mine doesn't stink, but my kids' does.!!!!

Great tourney, well ran and on time. We have gone for the last 4 years. Other wrestlers from our Kansas club have also attended after we went the first time and encouraged them to try it. I have never felt my son was more at risk for injury there than other tourneys, he got his butt kicked a few times by great competition, that he was at risk for. I didn't notice mats that were any older than any other. Never had a skin problem from wrestling there. On the other side of the coin, he did develop a health problem after wrestling at the State Tourney last year. Different story.

We aren't going this year, just ends too late at night for a cheapskate like me. Don't want to spend another night in a hotel. I want to drive home and it's a long drive if your match ends at 9 or 10 o'clock. If the tournament directors ever take out the dinner break and long introductions stuff we will be back that year.

Doug747, unless you were a young child rolling around on a questionable surface barely clothed a week before a qualifying tournament where if you had contracted something and not permitted to compete ending your season, I am not sure how fair your comparison is. Question, will your attitude be different if your child catches something and all their hard work this year to get to the dance is all for nothing?

I don't believe it's the question of your child catching something because it's held in the barn. I believe its people thinking their too "precious" to risk it. You can contract any skin disease at anytime, anywhere. It doesn't matter. Handwashing is the best prevention. Believe me, I'm a nurse. I am not afraid to let my son wrestle at the Classic. Some people just look "down" on places like that. It's sad that our society is like that. Again, good handwashing and hand sanitizer is the best prevention.

It is not just the skin diseases and injuries that I am worried about for my child. Yes these are risks that are at all tournaments throughout the state and the nation for that matter. Last year was our last time to participate in the Classic until the venue is changed not only due to the increased risk of skin infection (5 cases in our club the weeks after the Classic) because of the horse barn venue, but also because of the respiratory illness not only did my wrestler contract, but also the rest of my family. Upon leaving the Classic last year, I blew my nose a few times to clear out the junk and the tissue was full of brown dust filled mucus. It was at this point i thought to myself, did I just blow out a bunch of pulverized horse manure? And if that is so, how healthy is this environment not only to the wrestlers but also to the fans watching. Consequently, that following week my entire family came down with a brief episode of an acute respiratory illness, which we took some mucinex and it was mostly gone by the next weekend. However, this raised a serious question in my mind as to the potential of a more serious health risk when breathing in pulverized fecal material (it may not have been fecal material we were breathing but just breathing in large amounts of dust can also harbor some health risks as well).

By and by, the Classic hosts some great competition and i believe that this tournament could be a great tournament if it werent for it being held in the horse barn. I also agree that if the Kansas Coliseum is going to charge $15,000 per day for events then they are probably going to charge themselves right out of business (as this has been evident by losing teams because of the rent issue (Wichita Wind, Wichita Wings, almost losing the Thunder, Arena Football, High School State Wrestling this year, and I am sure the list could be longer)) As for the entry fee, raise it to $30-$40 and take it into the Arena where you will probably draw even more competitors which will drive the profits even higher and make up the difference of the rent between the two venues. Just my opinion, but if it is a money issue for the venue, then raise the entry fee and the admission price, change the venue and increase your number of participants. Until this happens I will not subject my family to the conditions of the horse barn and ultimately risk my wrestler's season so close to the State tournament.

YOu sound like Hillary or Obama. If we have a deficit, raise taxes. Do you really think that we would get more kids to pay $40 if it were in the coliseum? You would lose entries no doubt. We will be sending our novice kids to the Classic, to get them a taste of the big time, though it isn't Tulsa nationals. Now, if we told those kids that they had to pay $40 to wrestle the classic, they would not go.

If it were as easy as raising admission prices, don't you think it would have been done already.

Again, if the Classic's detractors want to run it their way, more power to them. The Sports Commission would be glad to accept their help and guarantees or success.

The concrete is cold and the mats are hard as a rock. My son dislocated his elbow there and he hasn't been back. That year eight wrestlers left in ambulances. The place is not fit to hold a major event. If you don't think there is an increase in injury risk then you are ignoring the facts.

Gross Memorial Coliseum was a great alternative but a scheduling conflict turned out to be a problem this year. Next year I would encourage ALL major Kansas clubs and all others to go to Ft. Hays. Entry fee is reasonable, plenty of hotel rooms, and the venue is awesome.

By the way. Attendance has been declining. There weren't even 1000 entrants last year. The number of out of state wrestlers is next to nothing and if you travel around the tournament is a joke around the country. The people I have dealt with have always been unapproachable and pompous. I am with Jeff, we need a different major event. NEXT YEAR lets all go to Ft. Hays. The floors are clean, it is spacious, Coach Bickley is awesome, but they have a horse barn you can go visit if you miss the smell!

I have no vested interest in the tourney, but was not convinced by the initial post by Mr. Smith.

Please give us some details about what skin disease is more likely to occur due to livestock fecal matter. I am not saying there isn't, but surely you have some opinion from a dermatologist or some medical literature that tells us about the much higher risk. Crash 99's anecdotal description of respiratory problems after the tourney is also not convincing. Unless you have those same ranchers/exhibitors coming down with the same symptoms, I can't agree with your cause and effect argument.

Cokely's description of cold floors and hard mats did have some logic to it. But is there really any difference between the hard floors/mats of Salina, Oklahoma City State Fairgrounds, or Topeka? What facts show this, if so? Do people dislocate their elbows because of the hard surface of the floor or they way they fell/someone landed on them?

I fear that people are really turned off by the presence of the manure and are reaching for reasons to criticize without evidence to support their arguments. I have no problem with people not liking the site; it is not my favorite location either. But given the fact that many other tournaments, Derby being one of them, have their own real negatives, I don't think there is really an increased risk of anything at the Classic.

Please show me the facts that have been referred to to prove I am wrong and I will be happy to change my mind.

Talkwrestle,
When was the last time you went to a tournament where eight kids left in an ambulance? Just wondering why you overlooked that factual comment.

Excellent post Talkwrestle. I would like to see the facts as well. Most of the negatives that have been sited can be said of many other tournaments. Concrete floors, events with animals/livestock,skin/illness problems, and hard mats.
I have enjoyed watching an equine event,every year, in the facility just a few steps from the back door of the Expocenter in Topeka during our Kansas Kids Championship. I personally know of many coaches/parents who go to that facility to purchase food at a reasonable price and then are on or near the mats.
I would be very interested in the data concerning the increased risk of injury in this tournament compared to other tournaments with similar numbers of participants.
I do believe every one is entitled to their opinions. But I feel better knowing my decisions are based on facts and not opinions.

I agree with Jeff completly, the classic has not been the same since they stopped having it at Century II. Great facility, and kids not walking around hourse crap all day and then bringing it on the mat. If you cram that many people in a small space you are goin to have promblems. They just need to eat ther pride and admit ther were wrong and move it back.

Jake Keplar
Circle Wrestling

Ive been wrestling since I was 4, Never been in a gym with live stock promblems and your oout side the BACK DOOR not in side

I honestly feel that the some of ones slamming the Wichita Classic are only doing so because they want the competition to move to Hays where they choose to have their kids wrestle. I also see no difference in the health risks at Classic as I do any major tourney. As for people all over hating the classic, we go to several national tourneys each year and I know lots of people who love it from other states. Yes the tournament has a very different attmosphere than all of the rest but that is part of what keeps it great. Face it there is great competition and it breaks up the monotony a little bit before the state stress starts! Also I don't even see Hays listed on the calander for that weekend. You know I personally don't enjoy the smell of horse dookie however I don't think I will give up a great tourney to keep from smelling it and honestly if I ask my kids this is their favorite tourney of the year and they don't even care about the smell!

I will just add to the pile. The officiating there is horrible! I don't know where they find some of these guys. One of them had to get a pass to leave the old folks home so he could do the tournament.

Usually these type of posts get people going. My response will put most to sleep. Sorry.

Cokeley, in formal logic your argument is called the fallacy of affirming the consequent. For example, If A, then B. B exists, therefore A must exist. It is, by definition, an invalid argument.

I did not overlook the 8 ambulances. They just don't prove anything. What were the nature of the injuries? Were they from an illegal move? Did they all result from a trauma from striking the mat? Is it because this is a competitive tourney with mostly high level wrestlers. Was there a mis-match that usually does not occur with A,B,C, and D brackets. Is it because the easy 0:15 pins of weaker kids aren't as common? You would have to compare all like factors and actually look at the reasons the ambulances were used. You are right, most "Mom and Pop" tourneys don't have such injuries.

Connecting ambulances simply has no bearing in my mind.

Now if you can show me 8 examples of throws or trauma related injuries from hitting a proven hard, cold mat with everything else remaining the same, I will reconsider my position.

I have been to nearly EVERY major kids folkstyle event you can name. I have NEVER seen the number of injuries at any other event that you see in Wichita. Officiating could be a contributor, some of the things you mention as well. You are correct, there are just many, many variables. However, the floor is colder and the mats are harder on the barn floor in Wichita. I guess I will have to invest in a stempmeter to prove this out. Will I need an accounting firm to audit my data? I am just putting my opinion down based on years and years of participating, coaching, attending, etc. The venue sucks. No arguement!