well said
Jake Keplar
Circle Wrestling

Well Cokeley, you sure do have your own opinion. I may not have been in wrestling as many years as you have been, but I have seen some tournaments that the floor is hard and cold. One being that we went to this year, but you know what? That did not deter us from going. You need SCIENTIFIC facts to prove that you contacted skin diseases or respiratory diseases for that matter. If you say that it is the over-crowding, then look at some of the tournaments this year. There were some that you could not even find a seat, because they booked too many kids. Diseases are all around us; we even carry many of them (MRSA for one) that we may not even know about. It just depends on how your hygiene is. And if your afraid to bring your wrestler to a great tournament, then so be it. That leaves room for more. And if you doubt my thinking, you can see my college diploma that says that I know what I am saying.

Anyone can get a college diploma, that doesn't mean they are smarter than everyone else. Just look at our president.

Hey, I am not stopping anyone from going to the Barn for a hoe down. Knock yourself out, literally! I am just calling it like I see it. I don't have to write a thesis to state an opinion. I am not involved with the agency that would be able to shut it down, I am just saying if it is the best Kansas has to offer it is a disgrace. I am promoting going to Ft. Hays NEXT YEAR instead of Wichita. Soften that diploma up and you might find a real use for it because I don't need to see it.

Don't need scientific facts or a college degree to give an opinion on this forum do ya? I've been involved with kids wrestling this time around for 3 years & every year have been warned about getting some skin funk at this tournament from different sources (fairly confident no hidden agendas from the sources). I've never heard that it came from horses poop until reading this thread though. If there is any kind of health concern at any tournament scientific fact or not this is the perfect place to comment on it. Isn't it?

If I can offer another view point. I think everyone can agree to disagree however hopefully those believing that there are no additional risk to the kids hopefully won’t argue that there is a large number that feel differently and have chosen not to attend for the reason mentioned before. If this can be agreed on then why wouldn’t the organizers of the event recognize this and show some effort to calm everyone’s concerns? These concerns have existed for years and yet I have seen no communication from the WGSC addressing these issues. I can only speak to Derby’s two tournaments as I have posted following them, should there be issues or concerns I would like to hear them and will address them in an effort to make the tournaments the best they can be. ESPECIALLY, if the concerns have to do with safety of those attending.

Common sense tells me that if I am losing people for the aforementioned reasons that I don’t take a don’t care attitude but go to extra efforts to address them. If you want scientific evidence of injury or skin decease, I cannot offer that. However I make decisions every day based on common sense without such scientific backings as I am sure you do.

Again, one recommendation to the organizers would be to have the appropriate agency(s) come in and provide a clean bill of health for the facility. Is that too much to ask? Would it hurt?

At what price do you compromise the safety of the kids? In my mind no amount of profits or competition justifies putting them at risk.

I am not writing to be hateful or agree with the conditions. I agree that is it is not held in the best place, but on the other hand you can contract anything anywhere. Being in a small space with a bunch of people, you can contract just about anything. I have seen, in the tournaments that we have gone to, a wrestler with obvious ringworm (not covered) wrestle. I have also known of wrestlers that had been throwing up and running a fever and still wrestle. Now I am sure there will be many instances of the same thing. I am just saying that I think the instances of contracting anything is the same everywhere.

Mr. Smith,

I think you need to re-read your initial post, including the title. You start with the risk as a given. It's not just a matter of common sense, but established fact. I have no quarrel with your club or favor with the Classic, but just can't see how such a one-sided post is correct.

I just want to know if there is such a real risk. I may reconsider attending. I don't think it cuts it to say "Well a bunch of people think it causes skin disorders and is unsafe. So we are going to boycott it until they prove our unsubstantiated claims are wrong." I don't think your request for someone to say there is no problem is unreasonable, but that's not what you said in your initial post.

Do you really believe your comments about profit and running tournaments? I dare say that at your tourney, the lone men's room near the concession stand presents much more of a risk than the minimal left-over manure at the Coliseum. Have you seen the floor and seen what the boys step in and drag to the mat? Will you rent port-a-pottys for your tourney next year? How about getting rid of the raffle tables, the t-shirt table, or moving the concession stand to ceate less congestion? I am sure the panther and and its case right in the middle of the commons aren't going anywhere. Will you turn down the heat to prevent, in my mind, the greatly increased risk of transmitting the flu and colds. Maybe you could give up about 400 entries and use the smaller gym for your miscelleanous profit centers. If money and profit don't play a role, I guess making some signigicant changes to your tourney is an option.

I apologize for criticizing your club or its tournament. But until you stop ignoring your own profits and cut your entries to the number that actually fit your facility; pay for the rental of a bigger facility that fits the number of entries; or donate some of your money from some of your profit centers to the Classic, I think you should keep a tight grip on the stones in your glass house.

This may just be the one topic all year long that makes me mad enough to even post in this forumn. Do you all mark your calendars as to when to start complaining about the horse manure in the barn at the Wichita Classic. If you researched all the major facilites were kids wrestle you might be shocked at the types of events that are held there. My kids wrestle and show horses and I guarentee you that the facilites where some of our horse shows are held would put the little local town gymansium to shame for cleanliness. If you don't like the venue for this tournament than it is your God given right not to go.

I thought I would post a few SCIENTIFIC facts that some people have requested. Just some background about myself, I do have several college degrees. I work as a paramedic and emergency room nurse. I have seen about every type of skin infection out there.
As far as livestock facilities go there are several documented animal to human contamination. Some caused by zoonotic pathogens (which means an organism spread from an animal to human). Just to state a few types of skin infections that can occur- equine morbillivirus (hendra virus), salmonellosis, cryptospordiosis, leptospirosis, yersiniosis, campylobacter, and ringworm. Yes, these all sound bad but usually with treatment they do clear up quickly. But that brings up the point that most people do not do good skin checks on their kids at home which brings it to the mat for all of our kids (this is another soap box that I will get on some other time). People are also not being educated on the antibiotic resistance that is occuring with some of the bacterial infections. Antibiotics are being placed in animal feed to promote faster weight gain. Which is allowing the bacteria strains to mutate and become resitant to most antibiotics. I think that I could go on forever about this whole subject, but I won't bore you all.
We also have not gone to the Wichita Classic. I think that because of some of my knowledge I am a little more cautious about certain things. I think that the main point should just be common sense though and educating yourself to all the things out there that your child can contract (not just from a horse barn). I carry purrel in every bag that we own for while we are at tournaments. As soon as we leave a tournament my son washes with antibacterial soap and then selsum blue. We have managed to only get ringworm once in the 5 years he has wrestled and nothing else.
I will say while we do need to watch for MRSA, I have seen 3 recent cases in the ER from sport contact.

J. Cassaboom

I don't think it's just the manure. It's just not a good place for a tournament. Especially the kind of tournament Wichita is trying to have. If Wichita's attitude becomes if you don't like it then don't come, I promise you they won't come. Will is telling you he already hasn't been been coming. Numbers are down.

I don't know if it still is, but when I went to school Wichita was the biggest in the state. Salina, Hays, Hutch, and others are having tournaments in the kind of venue this one should be in.

It is easy to take criticism of our tournaments personally and get defensive. Sometimes we need to listen to the customer.

windjammer, I don't disagree or agree that this is the best place to host this tournament. I am not in any way a part of this tournament or how it is run(except for my son wrestling there). I am just so tired of this ongoing discussion about horse barns and horse manure. The comments that seem to belittle the horse show industry and portray it as this filthy, bacteria infested, hick filled industry that makes me upset. If those that want to throw those types of comments around want to tell me the amount of times that have attended horse shows and seen the levels at which they are run, then I may be able to swallow those comments. When I read a comment that someone has been to that specific horse show in above mentioned venue and seen the mounding piles of manure rotting on the floor, that I would possibly agree with the statement that the venue does indeed present a risk to my children, which are probably infested with said bactaria, from being around such utter filth as the horse show industry. If someone feels just cause to email me to get the names of my own children so that their kids don't wrestle them and run the risk of getting a skin infection because they are hard working kids that from time to time have contact with horse manure I would be happy to oblige.

Heres an interesting side note, neither for or against, just food for thought. I'm probably not the only one that has seen the reports about how your kitchen counter is more bacteria infested then your bathroom toilet. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread the cleaner/disinfectant is probably of the ness. proportion to handle the need. For any of us that have grown up on a farm, playin in the barn, rollin in the hay...(keep it clean now) we could vouch that a pig, horse or a cow probably hasnt given us an infectious skin disorder. Like I said, just food for thought.

Health Dept. seal of approval shouldnt be to much to ask for either, in my opinion.

Talkwrestle – I will concede that my initial comments and title could be misunderstood, in my opinion and several others there is little doubt this venue holds a higher risk of injury and skin disease. With that said it is important to understand I only would like to see this tournament to be something Kansas can be proud of. Given the number of views and times this topic has come up can you not say it is a concern. Do you know of any other tourney in Kansas with the reputation equal to this one (don’t post it if you do).

As far as your comments regarding Derby’s tourney and as I posted right after the tourney, I welcome all “constructive criticism” and will not make excuses for the areas we fell short in, only a promise that we will work on these and correct them to make it the best it can be. I do not know who you are but am sure I have never received an email or phone call from you sharing your concerns. If you would like to discuss Derby’s tourney I would be happy to discuss it on another topic, email or phone. Lastly, I can promise you this, we as a club will never compromise kid’s safety for profits. Absolutely no way!

I have one last thing to say about this topic. I agree that the Classic is not held in the best place. But I do believe that my child has a better chance of contracting a skin disease or respiratory illness in a crowded gym with coughing people, where it is way too hot. That just spreads the germs further. I believe that my child gets more competition at the Classic than alot of places.

Tulas nationals is wrestled with only an insulating foam barrier between the mats and the ICE HOCKEY floor.

Is the horse barn the best place for a tourney? No. Is Fort Hays an option? If Fort Hays puts a tourney on that same weekend, it will be an option. This year's Hays tourney did not even have a 14u division. We'll go where the best competition is at, whether it be Hays or Classic.

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I don't like the insinuation that some on this board make, that if we go to the Classic, we are not looking out for the safety of our kids. If we wanted to protect our kids from being injured, we wouldn't let them participate in any sport except SOCCER!!! Much less a sport like wrestling or football.

That soccer comment will get me back on COkeley's good side!!!

Soccer is number 3.


U.S. SPORTS INJURIES — 2002
(Top 25)
TOTAL
(000) (%) E.R.
INJURIES
(000)

TOTAL 20,145 100.0 3,358

Basketball 2,783 13.8 521
Running/Jogging 1,654 8.2 *
Soccer 1,634 8.1 259
Football (Tackle) 1,084 5.4 351
Softball 1,063 5.3 122
Strength Training 1,062 5.3 *
Volleyball 667 3.3 128
Football (Touch) 661 3.3 *
Martial Arts 610 3.0 *
Baseball 602 3.0 *
Fitness Walking 529 2.6 *
Bicycling (Recreational) 445 2.2 109
Tennis 415 2.1 *
Ice Hockey 415 2.1 171
Skateboarding 399 2.0 103
Walking (Recreational) 384 1.9 *
Cheerleading 323 1.6 *
Golf 291 1.4 *
Skiing (Downhill) 289 1.4 *
Aerobics (Net) 279 1.4 *
Horseback Riding 265 1.3 *
Roller Skating (In-Line) 252 1.3 105
Snowboarding 218 1.1 *
Hunting 207 1.0 103
Mountain Biking 201 1.0 *

* Less than 100,000

SOURCE: AMERICAN SPORTS DATA, INC.





Copyright © 2006, American Sports Data, Inc. All rights reserved.

Thank the Lord that I don't allow my kids to play such a dangerous sport!!

Nice to know wrestling is safer than that ultra dangerous "recreational walking".....I think these stats just might be scewed by the number of participants.

24/7

Recreational walking is quite dangerous. You can be walking along having some recreation, then WHAM! You break a leg.