what ever happened to centruy II to much money $ or like normal did some upset sombody else

First of all thank you Brian for sharing WGSC’s thoughts on this forum with the wrestling community and potential customers of the WGSC organized tournament.

While my response will be professional I have the luxury that I do not have to be politically correct and therefore will be very candid. It is important to understand these are my feeling and opinions and would encourage everyone to visit with Mr. Hanson to formulate your own opinion.

I was excited to learn that Brian and I would have the opportunity to visit, I however never imagined what took place would occur. From the onset of our 47 minute conversation it was clear I was the enemy and not a parent, coach and customer who had genuine intentions. The best description I can give is “Hostile”. I will not share all the dirt of the conversation on this forum as it may be counterproductive. I will however share some key points of our conversation that will hopefully provide insight for those that care about this tourney.

According to Mr. Hanson

*This tourney was moved from Century II as the result of the contract not being renewed. The date then was secured by the Home & Garden Show and will never be available again.
*The WGSC took over and moved it to the current location. The cost for the Pavilion II is 11k a day.

*There are eight clubs that help with this tourney and also share in the profits. The WGSC made 5k last year.

*The Coliseum has to be rented for two days and the high school paid 35k-40k to rent this last year.

The rest of the conversation I will summarize with the following remarks.
Following a statement by Mr. Hanson that they are interested in both, giving the kids an opportunity to wrestle and the safety of those attending, I asked if he would share with me what are the steps they will take to ensure the safety. Mr. Hanson’s reply, I don’t have to! I advised him that I would share his comment to which he later insisted I share this, we have listened to your concerns and will make every effort to ensure the safety of the wrestlers. (As promised, Mr. Hanson.)

I had hoped for a better dialogue and ultimately a higher comfort level, unfortunately I am far from that now. Mr. Hargrove, I again want to thank you for your time. I had heard good things about you and would be happy to visit with you again anytime and would love to have the Wichita Eagle present.

For the record Mr. Hanson, I don’t care about how much money you can raise in one phone call. What I do care about is the safety of our kids. You and I will never speak again!

Jeff,
There is one part of your last post that I would like to have the opportunity to address.

This is not a true statement
"*The WGSC took over and moved it to the current location...
"

The history of the Wichita Classic (Please correct me if I am incorrect)

***The Wichita Classic was founded by two wrestling clubs (Goddard and Derby) who did a wonderful job of managing the tournament.

***The Wichita Classic was held in Century 2 for a number of years.

***The Home and Garden Show beat the clubs to renew the contract with Century 2 management and locked in a long-term contract.

***The CLUBS moved the tournament to the Kansas Coliseum.

***The first year the tournament was moved to the Kansas Coliseum complex it was held in Pavilion 1.

For those of you who are not familiar, I believe this Pavilion has a dirt floor. In order to accomodate the mats, plywood was laid on the ground and the mats were layed on top of the plywood. The mats were in 3 rows (Could have been 2)

***The CLUBS moved the tournament into its current location and served as the tournament hosts for the first two years in the "Horse Barn".

***One of the clubs decided they paid their dues and wanted out of managing the tournament. (They had done a wonderful job up to that point)

***The other club needed a partner and together they approached the GWSC to partner with them.

***The club that wanted out helped for a year or two then stepped aside.

***Jointly the other club and the GWSC have put on the Wichita Classic until this year.

***I believe that this is the first year that the GWSC has been the sole organizer of the Wichita Classic.


If any part of this is incorrect please feel free to share.

I believe the Andover club was in the initial group who organized this. That was why for years they didn't have a tournament of their own.


I am almost certain at least one year the tournament was held IN the Coliseum itself. I remember there being a huge ice storm that year which I believe the Coliseum stuck the host clubs with some hidden charges for heating that caused the tournament to go back to Century II for a couple of years.

USE AND MAINTENANCE

A wrestling mat should be used at room temperature (approx. 70 degrees) to maximize performance (keeping in mind that heat rises and the floor will be cooler). At 55 degrees, though not frozen, the impact protective properties will be greatly diminished.

Found this information at matsmatsmats.com

Steve, thanks for the reply, you will have a better idea of the history than I.

Clive - interesting point!

Jeff,

Two years ago I spoke with the same two gentlemen as well as Mr. Brewster from the Goddard Club. They were not interested in boosting attendance, making it easier to enter, going online with more information, improving safety, or any ideas from the outside. I told them that it appeared they were clearly not in it for the kids. I was verbally beat up and having already lost $5,000 out of pocket for elbow surgery, I decided it was time to permanently part ways and find a better big time tournament for Kansas. Hays was on the cusp last year as their attendance exceeded that of the Classic but a date snafue derailed their momentum this year. Next year I will work long and hard with Bryan Schumacher to try to get Hays up to a status where it might be known as the Prairie Nationals! It is close to Colorado and Nebraska and there is commercial air service available. I would hope we could pull in some more entrants from out west and get the Okies to drive a little extra. The fact that doesn't lie is that the numbers have been declining at the classic. They didn't even have 1,000 entrants the past two years. Pompousness and arrogance will get you no where in a world where the customer is always right. Wichita Classic may very well rest in peace in the very near future.

sportsfan02,
You may be correct and there may have been other clubs involved with the tournament initially. I do not know all of the history past about 12 years or so.

I can say that in the last 12 years the Classic has never been inside the main arena.

From a financial standpoint it is not feasable to put the tournament inside the arena.

Here are the main problems with putting it inside the arena.

1)Size of the Arena: Under the current format (One Day Tournament) it takes 14 full size mats to accomodate the tournament with 21 wrestling surfaces. I believe only 9 or 10 mats fit inside the main arena? That would create a loss of between 5 and 10 wrestling surfaces. How would the tournament make up that lost wrestling time without getting done at 1 AM?

2)Time: The tournament would have to be atleast a 1 1/2 day tournament (Similar to JOC). I personally love the idea!!

3)Cost: I believe Coliseum charged KSHSAA around $15,000 per day to use the main arena. Because of Space it would require two days rent or $30,000. I do not see how the tournament would even break even at that point.
An example of what it would cost to put it in the main arena...

Outgoing Rent $(30,000)
Awards $(3,700)
Officials $(6,750)
Mats (Clubs) $(15,000)
$(55,450)

Incoming Entry Fees (20*1500) $30,000
Gate $9,600
Concessions $-
$39,600

Loss $(15,850)

In addition here are the actual numbers from the classic for the last two years: 2006: 1,151 2007: 1,098 (I beieve both of these numbers are over 1,000)

I can also say that there is a new manager over the Coliseum and he has been working with the GWSC to address issues.
A great example of this is internet service. The GWSC asked that internet service be placed inside the Pavillion so that the GWSC could possibly use TrackWrestling to manage the tournament and make the entire tournament available on-line. They are working hard to try to make that happen!
The previous manager of the Coliseum was legendary for his unwillingness to work with people (Just call KSHSAA and ask them about the high school tournament)

I very much want to see the Wichita Classic succeed and grow into a national caliber tournament, possibly even a 2 day event, that all of District 2 can be proud of!
However, I also believe that there are just certain things that are beyond the control of the GWSC!!

Let me offer some options for getting into the main arena:

1) Because each club is a non-profit organization, they should ban together and petition Sedgiwck County for a reduced fee to have the arena for two days!!!

2) Clubs from District 2 should volunteer their mats and their table workers to put on the tournament. The added savings would almost pay for the second day of renting the tournament.

We (District 2) should step up and work together to make the Wichita Classic better and work for positive change not bash each other or the organization that has kept the tournament alive for the last several years!

If we cannot change the building, we should still work together to figure out a way to make the situation better than it is!

I always look at the motivation for why people do what they do or say what they say.

Some people make choices because they want to bring about positive change (Jeff Smith- I appreciate your motivation, your intentions are honorable, not necessarilly the method).

While others make choices because they have a personal agenda or are angry.

I hope that I have not offended anyone but rather given people a positive motivation to make the situation better.

Thank You

Mr. Cokeley,

I would be more than happy to show you our #'s from the previous 2 years showing that participation in the classic is well over 1000 both years. However, many of us know that you have a personal agenda against the classic. So, continue to lie if you want, but those close to the tournament know the truth. Be a man and talk to me one one one instead of throwing out lies about the classic.

Thank you...

Brian S. Hargrove
Director of Events and Marketing
Greater Wichita Area Sports Commission
100 S. Main, Suite 100
Wichita, Kansas 67202
Work (316) 265-6236 Cell (316) 990-7689
http://www.wichitasports.com
Home of the Coleman Company - Johnny Bench Award

Apparently I struck a nerve...

During the past two years when the entries have been posted I simply copied them into a spreadsheet and the count was in the high 900's two years ago and I think around 950 last year. If not all of the entries were posted then those are not the facts. I did not lie only represented what was made available. I think everyone will agree that the number of participants has been in decline as they were once in the 1200's. I apologize if the facts I stated are in error but I did not intentionally lie.

has the horse barns been remodeled? i have talked to lots of people that said, there were several announcements last year that it would be remodeled, just wondering

Yes it has been remodeled.

I have rented the Arena Building at the coliseum several times for paintball tournaments and it is only $1200.00 plus utilities for the weekend. If I remember right it is like $2000-2500.00 plus utilities for Pavilion 2 for the weekend! If they are cleaned up and out Saturday night it would be even less.

Steve, thank you for your efforts and comments here. Your approach by also providing recommendations is right on. I also think you have given some great ideas regarding Dist 2 coming together.

I am not necessarily a believer in "the ends justifies the means", but if at the end of the day our kids are protected and the tourney gets better, I am willing to live with the method I took.

Take care.

"Keep in mind that all private email is considered to be copyrighted by the original author. If you post private email to a public list or board, or forward it to an outside party in whole or in part, you must include the author's permission to post the material publicly. Not doing so can get you into some deep doo-doo legally or with your friends and associates. Think of it this way... how would you feel if a personal private email that you had written for a specific purpose/person is then plastered across the Internet or forwarded to folks you do not know? Always ask for permission before forwarding or posting any private emails!"
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I agree that Hays is going to be the premiere tournament in the state on this weekend. Jr. Cardinals will not take any athletes to the wichita tournament. We will in fact take 25-40 to Hays next year and for many years to come.

Prairie Nationals??? Kind of has a nice ring to it!!

[/quote]
"Keep in mind that all private email is considered to be copyrighted by the original author. If you post private email to a public list or board, or forward it to an outside party in whole or in part, you must include the author's permission to post the material publicly. Not doing so can get you into some deep doo-doo legally or with your friends and associates. Think of it this way... how would you feel if a personal private email that you had written for a specific purpose/person is then plastered across the Internet or forwarded to folks you do not know? Always ask for permission before forwarding or posting any private emails!"
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Give me a break...there isn't and shouldn't be any expectation of privacy!!

We also will skip the Wichita tournament this year.Hays definetly next year.Sounds like to many lies down south.

Let's keep the tournament alive until we can get it moved to the new arena in downtown Wichita.

Anything that is sent over email can be read by anybody that knows how to access it. Nothing is private in the computer age. It all goes in to hidden files in your computer and in the processor of your and their internet provider. SO HOW PRIVATE IS IT REALLY GOING TO BE?

Don't want anyone to know do write it down.

Our club is taking approx 20-25 wrestlers to this years Classic. For our family it will be the 5th time to attend. We have always enjoyed the Classic and will continue to attend. My biggest complaint of the past has been only that you are not allowed to bring in coolers. As far as the cold cement floor...have you been to Tulsa Nationals?? It is held over a Hockey Arena...I had a light jacket on the entire time...and was still chilled. The bathrooms were not clean...except for the first 1hr or so...but what do you expect? My son cleaned the bottoms of his shoes each time he got back from the restroom and prior to wrestling. We take our own precautions by using the foam skin protection prior to each practice session, each weekend tourney and have our sons shower as soon as we reach home. Our club mats are cleaned prior to and after practice..so we try to control our environment as much as we can. Still no one has any control over the opponent and the precautions they take. So do your best to keep your child free of skin disease and hope that everyone else is doing the same.

I grew up on a farm so don't worry too much about the manure...have smelled it in the past at the Classic...never saw a sign of any inside of the facility. We take it sleeping bags/lawn chairs/dvd players, etc and set up in a corner with our entire club...we all enjoy each other and watching good matches. I will admit that there are a few injuries...but last year at our subdistrict there were more than I would care to see.

Hope to see you there on the 8th of March.

we clean clean clean etc an still my son got a skin condition shower everyday what can you do