the wrestlers at the top of 5A or 6A are better than 4A in a lot of cases. It is just that the rest of the field is weak. anytime you have wrestlers who get to state with 16 or 17 losses and only 10 wins, you have too many wrestlers. As far as the jv wrestlers go, yeah they could qualify for state in 5 or 6A because just about everyone goes. i am not ready to say that would happen in 4A. i am sure there are exception of wrestlers who are stuck behind a stud, but if they are just a notch below, most schools find a way to get that wrestler on the mat at some weight, up or down.

You have the other classes running 16 man brackets. It would seem to me you would want all the classes to be the same if you were having state at the same venue, and same time.

What I am saying to get all classes 1-6 in the same arena would be to have 8 man brakcets in all classes.

I am prepared to be flamed, but want to weigh in with my opinion. In a time when it is imperative that we keep young people involved to occupy their free time and have another set of checks and balances (wrestling team rules, etc.) why do we want to reduce opportunities for them.

I am against combining any classifications. What is wrong with allowing 64 kids per weight class being happy about being state qualifiers or having 24 kids per weight being happy about placing at state. If kids see they have a chance to qualify or place maybe they will stay involved.

As a wrestling fan we want to see the best wrestle the best. I believe that is the job of the coach to schedule those matchups during the season. Whose the best or the toughest can be determined during the season instead of taking opportunities away from other competitors that work just as hard but may not be as talented.

I like 4 classes and 16 man brackets for this reason. However, I do like the 2 regional 8 qualifier option discussed at our regional for 6A.

It's about the kids and the more opportunities the better.

Brett Means
GHS Wrestling

I agree whole-heartedly with your message.

...

I agree with the concept of keeping kids inolved and not limiting opportunities. With that in mind, I offer another approach....

After reading these boards it seems the issue at hand is that some regionals don't fill all the brackets. Assuming this is the real issue what about the idea of letting teams with JV kids at that weight fill in and try to qualify for state?

I know it seems a little odd but I actually have seen it work. In Montana for their 2A schools (equivalent of 6A schools in KS) they only have 13 or 14 schools that size. In order to fill the brackets for state they hold 2 divisional meets. One of the East Conference and one for the West Conference. Every school brings thier varsity and #1 JV wrestler at every weight. The top 8 kids from each conference qualifies for state.

At the state tournament there is no distinction between varsity and JV for team points. All wrestlers count towards team points. In MT they have 15 weight classes so in theory you could qualify 30 kids for the state tournament.

At first this seemed a little odd to me and I wasn't sure I liked it. After watching it in action for a few years I grew not really, for those that know me, I have never grown too much) to really like the idea.

Here are the benefits as I see them....

1. Provides kids more opportunity rather than limit them.
2. Kids don't have to cut weight or go up a weight if you have 2 studs at the same weight class.
3. Allows kids that have a really good wrestler in front of them an opportunity to place at state and build resume' for college. In fact, Kalispell team had 2 kids wrestling for the state championship this year.
4. Team championship is really determined by who has the best overall program. In order to really win the state tournament you have to have depth on your roster.

This is just another idea. I have not thought enough nor am I knowledgeable enough on the way it could be implemented for 5A & 6A schools. I just offer it as a starting point for thinking outside the box.

The bottomline is that we should not limit opportunities for the kids.

Shawn Budke

at some point you have to draw the line. There are plenty of tournaments and duals throughout the year for wrestlers to get their opportunities. I think the term "state qualifier" should mean something. State should be something for kids who have worked the hardest to become the best. I know we need more kids and everything but at some point we have to reward those who have worked the hardest and give them the recognition for it. I just think in the case of 5A and 6A the term "state qualifier" is diminished due to the fact it is so much easier to qualify for it. Unfortunately, i feel that 5A and 6A wrestlers are judged by how they do at state and not the accomplishment of just making it there, as is the case for 4A. I mean the tension in those matches in 4A to qualify for state are so intense and i do not feel that is the same on the other levels and that is too bad.

wrestle the 5th & 6th place matches at all of the regionals and take the 3 - 5th place finishers from the other regionals and draw one or two name(s) out of a hat as an alternate/wildcard to fill the 16 man bracket. It is a bit of luck of the draw - but so can location where they get placed in the state bracket now.

You never know - I have had kids place 4th in subdistrict, 4th in district and 4th in state in USA kids wrestling. I have had a kid place 4th at subs, 1st at districts and 3rd at state. Some of those weights just work out that way in certain years. So why not draw in a wild card/alternate for high school state?

KC I respect your opinion, but to think there is not tension in the consolation semifinals of a 6A/5A regional is wrong. Regardless of the caliber of wrestler the loser goes home and that is stressful.

This past weekend we had a young man that placed 5th at state last year lose a double overtime match that cost him a trip to the big dance. It was intense.

Now if there are only 4 kids at regional I understand your argument. I feel the 2 regional 8 qualifier format may aleviate some of those problems.

No doubt it may be harder to qualify in 4A year in and year out, but I can remember a few situations when we were 5A that the best 5 kids in the state were at our regional and one was left at home.

I have seen kids place at high school state that can not make it to kids state. Doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

I am all for kids getting involved in activities and sports. I realize that there are a lot of bad things that kids sometimes get into. Wrestling I have always felt is not a sport to get into just to be a part of somthing. I feel that this is what makes it head and shoulders above all other sports for the simple reason that you get out what you put in. If you dont train seriously you will find yourself getting pummled. This sport builds character more than any other sport that high school has to offer. If you win it is because you did it. If you lose it is because you didnt do it. Now as far as combining all classes or combining some, I am not sure what would be the best scenario. But in my opinion wrestlers have ample opportunities to compete. Just about every weekend a varsity and jv team is in action. I think that state whould be a heck of a lot more important than it is. Yes losing records get in while winning records stay out. That can be attributed to many things including luck. How many times have you been in a seeding meeting where state qualifier is not enough to get seeded. Now the current system I feel is good. But I also feel that we should always seek improvement no matter how good somthing is

bmeans you are right, i did not mean to say there is no tension, and there are uneven brackets as well. There are just more opportunities for tense matches in 4A because of the number of wrestlers. i am just saying overall there is more tension in 4A, there are case by case situations though that differ from the norm. Having the best five wrestlers in the state in one regional is just extreme bad luck, wow. Good point also by Gus, we should always be looking to improve.

if you combined 5a and 6a you would pretty much have a grand state with individuals since 123a and 4a usually only have 1 kid that can even hang with the top tier of the big boys

Gus in reference to your statement that some kids should not make it to state. I have one question for you is your child perfect? anyone can be beat at anytime in this sport. For you to say that losing records should not make it to state is unreal. Who do you think your elite wrestlers workout with at thease schools. Where do you think the next elite will come from. There are more wrestlers out there then just a few. They would not be there with out the kids they have to practice with. When my oldest was younger now he has since graduated he was one of thease kids with a losing record, but guess what at state he had more heart than some and beat kids who were suppose to place, he ended placing the next 2 yrs as well. Sometimes when you place at regionals or state it takes heart. Thease elite wrestlers need to know that sometime.

Isn't state supposed to be special? Not everyone gets everything they want. That is life! Why make it EASY to get to state just so kids can artificially feel better about themselves? What does that teach? Old Bob isn't feeling very good about himself so we better give him a promotion and salary increase! Hahaha! That isn't going to happen. We are supposed to be preparing these students to be able to make it in life not send a message that if it is tough we will just figure out a way to make it easier. If kids are only competing so they can go to state that is wrong! We need to tell kids that to make it to the top it takes dedication, hard work, sacrifice, and sometimes (most of the time) you still might not get exactly what you want. The opportunity is there for every kid to wrestle whether you have 1 or 10 state tournaments. It is a joke that 50% of the 5 & 6A wrestlers qualify for state, no arguement, PLEASE.

64 out of 324 wrestlers in 5&6A have losing records this year. Someone else can count 4A and 321A but I would bet on it being less than 10.

I agree with you Will. I've always liked how Iowa has handled the school classifications. The classification is based on each sport's participation as well as school enrollment. Wrestling is a 3 class sport with the largest 64 schools designated 3A, the next 96 are 2A and he remaining 129 are 1A. This means you are reclassifed every year based on your school's 9-11 enrollment. The system not only works, it produces one of the greatest state tournaments you could ever attend.

yeah but the top wrestlers in 6a and 5a are better than the 4a and 123a besides maybe 135 and i think that could change day to day.