The discussion in another thread regarding a chin under hook move in a kids novice tournament got me to thinking, especially after Beeson made a pretty good question about the move in a novice tournament.

My experience has shown me that different coaches, from different clubs, teach different novice moves. The question on the chin under hook on the other thread is an excellent example of that. If not mistaken the coach/parent (?) asking the question here is from Oklahoma. I recall from years ago that different novice clubs in Oklahoma taught different things. For example, Sand Springs always taught a headlock, Owasso taught early on a switch and various takedowns, some taught a variety of moves like a tilt, some a ankle pick and the list goes on. I have noticed over the years that the same type of thing is done here.

Personally, I always felt that in novice it was best to teach a single leg takedown, a double leg takedown (an optional take down of choice), a stand up, a sit out, a half and that was about it. Now on any of these you also work a lot of hip heists, which I like continued movement at all levels as even Dan Gable stated that it was the single most important drill in all of wrestling and who wants to argue with Gable. But there are clubs that teach a snake, and other moves that become easy for a novice wrestler to depend on.

Now don’t get me wrong, I think some great examples in Kansas have taught you that some of these basic moves, if learned appropriately, learning how to set up, and execute in appropriate situations are not always a bad thing. The two wrestlers that come to mind are Dylan Penka and Tristen Deshazer when it comes to the head lock. Tristen is using it at a high level in college, and Dylan is at High School and eventually will in college, so the old adage that a particular move don’t always work just isn’t true.

Here is my question, on a novice level, am I wrong for teaching the basics, getting them down, and then moving on from there? Also when do you start some of the more advanced moves with the novice kids? Seems to me, that if a kid is mastering the basics, it is either time to move them up to an advanced or open division, or to learn something else. I am also a firm believer that there needs to be a firm rule that dictates when a wrestler is a novice or open wrestler. In the interpretation of that rule, you run into problems when other states show up at your tournaments, it is one of the reasons it is important for clubs to clearly indicate in their registration what is, and is not a novice wrestler. As much as some hate the idea, it is also critical that those clubs enforce those rules at their tournament. It is kind of like the getting off of the floor if you are not a coach announcement that is always made, start ejecting a few people right off the bat, and see how little you have to make that announcement then, people will learn to not enter a kid who is in violation of the rule.

Anyway a few questions and points I came up with that I thought deserved its own thread. Now, your thoughts?

My coaching philosophy regarding the little ones is to teach techniques that are relatively simple to master, yet are widely used at the high school level.

From our feet we teach singles, doubles, and snap-downs. I know there are a few exceptions to the rule, but I refuse to teach a headlock or a snake because it is a crutch that becomes useless around 14 years old.

On bottom we teach a standup and a sit out with a crawfish (or stop sign, nearside block, whatever you choose to call it).

I only teach three breakdowns for the novice wrestlers. I teach the ankle/tight waist, ankle/far knee, and the near-arm chop. No leg rides, no head levers, spirals, etc.

For pinning combinations we teach halves, chicken wings, and that's about it.

It's my belief that our younger and/or less experienced wrestlers don't need a ton of moves thrown their way. Instead, they need a few tools to work with and a lot of live wrestling time in the mat room to get a feel for their body weight and positioning, their opponents' reactions to their movements, and the flow of the sport. Once these are learned, technique is easy.

Well said Damon/Beeson!

I've long been a proponent of limiting the moves that are allowed in Novice tourneys!

But I also think as developmental clubs, we "teach" far too many "moves!" IMO we need to teach and insure our athletes are learning ... good solid fundamentals!

That really isn't a bad idea and would be fairly easy to regulate from an officiating perspective Randy. When a wrestler goes to an unapproved move, then the match is stopped and restarted, make them learn the basics well before moving on to more advanced moves that can be used in advanced tournaments.

I agree fully with the above posts. You have to crawl before you can walk, and walk before you can run. If young kids are learning advanced moves, then maybe they shouldn't be wrestling novice. Some kids will get it sooner than others, and for those kids, wrestle open.

our philosophy is to teach a takedown (double/single) two set ups with each,a snap down, and a sprawl, on the feet. a stand up from bottom. an arm chop, far knee/ankle, and far arm/near knee, break down, and a half from top. each individual wrestler doesn't move on until he/she can perform each in a match.other than that we just drill "positions", forehead to forehead, stay belly down, etc. like i said in earlier posts, kids will learn, or attempt moves on their own. this is fine, but when they start mastering them it's time to move past the "novice" tourneys. randy, mike i have the upmost respect for the both of you, and knew i was doing what i feel is right by the kids/sport. it still feels good to have two coaches such as yourselves reinforce what we are trying to teach. thank you

Good comments, anyone else notice a trend here. I think something else to make mention of, anyone else notice how many of these "basic" moves are the winning moves for an advanced wrestler?

Im really glad to see this topic i just started a new club and it has been so long since ive coached novice kids that i wasent sure were to start, every wrestler i have is brand new to this sport. i always second guess myself. glad to see that more people feel the way i do.

I don't want to offend anyone here, but....., the best novice coach I have ever seen is Mike Morrow from the Derby Wrestling Club. Mike is T-E-R-R-I-F-I-C! Mike teaches basics but there is something else Mike teaches that has been left out here. He teaches the kids to have F-U-N! I am not even sure if Mike coaches the novice kids anymore, but he would do things like hand out a trophy at each practice to the kid who worked the hardest, not the best kid, but the hardest working kid, that trophy traveled from one practice to another, and the kids always seemed to bring it back. I have never seen kids cheer about doing three man rolls until they were dripping sweat, but Mike found a way to do it with the kids.

I guess the point in this is, as much as the technique is important, in the early days, especially with the drop out numbers of kids as they get older, teaching the kids to love the sport, to have fun is also important, in fact, one may say the most important. It is why I like Randy's idea of only allowing certain moves. Now don't get me wrong, I think we should have winners and losers, but I think we have to most of all teach the kids to have fun.

I recall coaching a novice kid at a tournament in Hutchinson a few years ago, now understand, I have seldom ever coached a novice kid, in fact, didn't think I could. This kid, and I am really sorry I don't remember his name had never won a match, had never scored a point in a match. I start out and this little tyke is just a laughing, then all of a sudden I yell shoot ( I actually hate the yelling and noise but for these little bitty kids it is a requirement) and then suddenly the kid dives, does a forward roll, that's right a flip, and shocks the kid he is wrestling, he ends up grabbing the kid around the ankles and takes him down. The first points he has ever scored but my yelling, as well as the observation of the official on the mat, and the other coach has turned to laughing out loud hysterically. Well the kid ends up getting reversed, then gets an escape, the first 3 points ever scored in like 3 years. Then is taken down and pinned. I could have easily been disappointed but the parents, other coach, official, and yes me, was ecstatic that the kid has scored the first points of his life and was having fun. Now note on this point, the other coach, parents all, supported the kid, they as well helped make it fun for the little guy. I think this was one of the best moments in over 12 years of being involved in the sport. It ranked right up there with when Daniel Smith, who has since moved on to protect the President of the United States Helicopter won a match that was going to guarantee him placing at state. Daniel was still having fun some years later.

I think all of those basic moves are important, but none as important as the novice wrestler learning to have fun. You can wrestler 320 days a year, in highly competitive matches, and still have fun if approached in the right way when young and by parents making sure this is the main point when starting their kids out. I have learned that unfortunately as a coach, and a parent, oh if I could do so much over again. Now if anyone could remember the name of that little guy from Derby, I would appreciate it, as I think early on anyways, he certainly got it and taught me a pretty important lesson.

Great point, Mike. I like the idea of the traveling trophy. I plan on stealing that.

i agree with the having fun part, because if its to boring ur not going to keep them coming to practice, so ive been trying to remember all the games that i used back in the day to keep it fun and at the same time learning and getting in sape.

Games: Turtles, King of the Mat, Tag Team Wrestling Matches, Bull in the Ring, and Jake's favorite DODGE BALL.

Beeson you reminded me of the tag team match and style we developed in honor of Tyler Graebner. It was a blast and I think the kids at state enjoyed watching the High School kids do this. It is a great opportunity to explain the concept of having fun at tournaments and I will remind folks, I can always set up a demonstration for a tournament to talk about Tyler and the motivation he provided for kids tournaments using High School Kids to demonstrate the sport and rules. I know that even HS kids aren't too old for the games, and have heard the same from some of the college kids. I wonder why some coaches leave it out of the kids novice practices?

we play all these games except the tag team game can you give me some insight on this one
Thank You

I accidently deleted the photos from the host site some time ago, but the article explaining it is here: http://www.hollywoodjesus.com/comments/virtualpew/2006/08/tag-team-wrestling-thanks-tyler.html

I would still love a video from when it was done at state if anyone has one.