I would be interested in how many do not consider 9th graders High School. I am pretty sure Wes Harding's son is a 9th grader or at least in the 15U division. I will give him a call tomorrow and find out how they view 9th graders.

Ed,

High School varsity rosters have many freshmen in them. I would not call it a prize to wrestle High School all year and then drop down to a Kids division tournament to wrestle 7th and 8th graders. The upper weight participation in Kids is the issue, not filling that gap with high school wrestlers.

By the way, there were 80 Freshmen State Qualifiers in 4A/5A/6A last year!

Chief,
Wrestling for a kids title is so much harder than a high school title as it stands because anyone can enter, where in high school they only wrestle kids from other schools the same size not everyone in the state. I understand why a high school division is needed, that will be the most prized title, there is a very high probability that NO freshman will EVER win the high school division title. Let them have another year with other kids their own age and skill level. I am not arguing against a high school division, I am arguing against freshmen being in that division.

Chief,
How many of those 80 qualifiers last year were lighter than 125lbs? How many of them placed? How many would have qualified/placed in a high school division that included all high schools?

23 out of the 80 placed! You were only allowed one question.

Chief,
Awesome answer, I just dont believe that freshmen would be competitive in a division with all the upperclassmen in the state included.

I believe that 14&under should stay just as it is. I agree we DO need a highschool group, But it really should be 15 and up. The one year really makes a world of difference in maturity of these young men. And of course yes I DO have a 14yr old freshman. Am I apprehensive about this years wrestling season? You bet! This may be the hardest competition he has encountered. But at the end of wrestling HS these boys look forward to a more level playing field. I am afraid that making these boys wrestle HS all the way through may cause Kids State attendance to fall due to discouraged Freshmen & Sophomores. Then again I may be wrong...

6A- 8 freshmen placed none over 152
5A- 6 freshmen placed none over 125, 4 at 103lbs
4A- 8 freshmen placed none over 145, 5 at 103lbs

So.. 22 freshmen placed with 12 placers at 103 and only 6 placer over 130

Why would we put freshmen in an all kansas high school division, with very, very few exceptions they would not be able to compete?

Here is my question, how do we verify whether a kid is an 8th grader or freshman the day of a qualifier or anytime thereafter? We have a mechanism for verifying dates of birth but what about grades? Most of us will know the studs in each division and it won't be a problem for them. Instead it will be some kid that nobody has ever heard of, from a school/town that nobody has ever heard of. Then you throw in the homeschooled kids, who's to say what grade they are in?

Nine freshmen placed in 6A last year. You missed the 160 guy from WSE. We put them in the high school division because they are high schoolers!

So we scrap the whole idea because somebody may cheat? The mechanism to check DOB is a birth certificate. (Which is not required by the way). A grade card or school I.D. might be a good start.

If 12 freshman placed at 103, just in 4A, 5A, and 6A, add them all together and the most that can place is 6. That is if they beat all of the Sophs, Jrs, and Srs. My guess is that instead of 22, 5 would place putting all of the classes together.

At some point in time, the top wrestling states in the nation recognized the positive impact and made the clear distinction a rule. Any time a change like this is made, the kids that are affected feel excluded. Think of how the kids would react in Illinois if they suddenly said that high school wrestlers could now enter their kids state? A kids last shot at a kids title should be his last year in kids wrestling. Not his first year in high school.

It's up for vote by the state body. It could go either way. I just hope that we see the bigger picture instead of coveting a medal that we failed to win while we were in middle school.

(So far it's 7-0 in favor of a seperate HS division. I will keep you updated.)

Gary Wayne is an 8th grader this year, but the same age as Levi, which is the old side of 14u.

One thing to point out is that many of the states that you mention have a very LARGE percentage of kids that are held back, possibly to circumvent this rule? There are kids that are a year older than my son, that are a grade BEHIND him in school.

I am waiting for feedback from my club before I say for sure how I'll vote, but I agree with it in the long run will push kids to be better wrestlers. I think it will be passed easily if you give the option of letting a freshman wrestle 14u, OR the HS division. I think it would police itself, because if I see a freshman that should be in the HS division, sandbaggin and wrestling 14u, I'll call him out. Someone mentioned Reece Conklin, if this rule were in place when he were a freshman, and he chose to wrestle 14u, lots of people would have raised a stink. Reece would not have done that, just using him as an example.

Eric,

I saw your comment, as follows:
You should probably check Article III of the Kids' Bylaws, which does currently require each club to verify the birthdates of their wrestlers:

Ok, just a couple of changes. I would say it is more like 5-2. Illinois does not allow High School wrestlers. But their age divisions are basically school divisions. 8U can not wrestle in the State Tournament either. It is 3rd, 4th, 5th graders, with 2nd graders that are 8 having the option to wrestle up. 6th, 7th, 8th, with 10 years old 5th graders having the option to wrestle up. Not the same set up we have at all.

Oklahoma goes strictly by birthday. If you are a sophmore and are 16 after September 1st you can wrestle in the 15U kids division.

I have not checked but I would bet that NONE of these states have a High School Division. So basically we are comparing apples to oranges.

I say we keep 14U the same, add the High School, and give 14 year old Freshmen the option.

Thanks Mike, I didn't want to be the one to drop the hammer on him. That Constitution and the Bylaws can be so pesky for some to read for some reason! But yet they come on here and are experts on how they should be changed.

Thanks Mike. I know our state has had problems in the past with verifying ages! Just for clarity, that rule is not a USAW rule and is a NEWLY adopted rule by Kansas. Last year was the first year, right Mike? Additionally, my guess would be below 10% of all clubs actually asked for birth certificates.

Sportsfan, your hammer is a pillow, so go ahead.

It is now 8-0. Indiana replied that at no time do they allow High School wrestlers to compete against MS.

Chad, Those 15U you are talking about in OK are wrestlers that are NOT competing at the HS state tournament. They are held at the same time, so the varsity HS wrestlers are not competing against 7th and 8th graders like they do in Kansas.

Missouri
Nebraska
Illinois
Wisconsin
Georgia
Iowa
Oklahoma
Indiana

8-0