I still believe you are inferring to much influence this issue will have on “Putting Kansas on the National Stage!” By using evidence that I see with my own two eyes and not speculation, I do not see this changing freestyle participation! The vast majority of High school kids that continue into the folkstyle season do so to improve their skills for the next high school season and to compete.(which we can all agree is a worth while use of their time.) I think the phrase “Chasing kids medals” is unfair , I see nothing wrong with a kid wanting to compete and improve his skills, do you? However after the folkstyle series I only see a few of these high school kids continuing into freestyle. Is this lack of participation caused by the folkstyle series? I don’t think so. Lets not forget that kids state is at the end of March and the end of the freestyle season(Fargo) is the end of July. Just how long of a freestyle season do these kids need or more importantly how much will the majority of them want to handle!! I am almost certain there are no freestyle tournaments in Missouri during the time of our folkstyle series.(correct me if I’m wrong) Yes everyone wants to see Kansas do well nationally and a greater effort put into recruiting kids for the freestyle season would be a good start. I just can’t understand how you believe that not allowing kids that want to continue their folkstyle practicing and competing will hurt Kansas Wrestling.

Just because the school system makes a division between 8th grade and freshmen does not make the division of wrestlers by two year increments used by Kansas Wrestling inherently wrong or unfair. I know I’m repeating my shelf but the maturity level between an 8th grader and a freshmen is not nearly as great as the difference between a 14 year old and an 18 year old. I will concede a freshmen may have an advantage over an 8th grader because he has been in a high school practice room. But hey that’s life its not always easy and sometimes we come out on the losing end, life lesson learned. But guess what next year I will be top dog! Beeson touched on the fact that the school system actually divides kids up into smaller divisions then Kansas wrestling! They have separate 7th, 8th, 9th, JV.and Varsity teams. Supposedly qualified coaches determine if a kid can move up and compete at a higher level. I realize this may not be a fair comparison to wrestling simply because of the low number of kids wrestling . but the fact remains even in wrestling there is a dividing line between JV and Varsity wrestlers that this proposal does not allow for. The Cadet, Junior division would for the most part ,resolve that problem but it would also prevent a true grand state scenario from taking place! It seems to me the lesser of two evils would be to give the freshmen the option of wrestling in the 14U division if they qualify.

I am still a little confused as to what you want to happen? Do you support this proposal or do you want to completely eliminate High school kids from Kansas folkstyle wrestling? I am reading both!

Here is the direct answer from Illinois. I have the others if you want to see them.

"Our State Tournament is for 4th through 8th grade. We also have an intermediate state championships but it’s not part of our state series. Our state series includes regionals, sectionals, and the state tournament. High school wrestlers are not allowed to compete in IKWF Folkstyle events."



Sincerely,

Mike Urwin

Secretary/Treasurer - IKWF

Steve,

1. I support the proposal.

2. I am in favor of a HS folkstyle division.

3. I do not believe that a high school state champion is furthering his skills by wrestling 7th and 8th graders after winning a high school title.

4. I believe that the most effective way for high school wrestlers to further their skills is to extend their folkstyle season in the "grand state" style HS division OR get right to work on the FS/GR styles. It is certainly not better for them to "dial down" the competition with MS kids.

Do you have an answer as to why every state that has answered my e-mails so far feels the same way I do? Is your position helping or hurting our development?

My point is there is no High School Division. No 16U division. Once you pass the 8th grade you can not wrestle, which is not the same as Kansas is at the time. Oklahoma does allow High School wrestlers in the kids division, even though they may be JV they can wrestle.

Just talked to Iowa...Kids wrestling stops after 8th grade. Georgia, Missouri, stop after 8th Grade.

Colorado and Nebraska look like they go with Cadets and Jr.

New Mexico and Oklahoma go by age division only.

Colorado actually has a Freshman/Sophmore state.

I don't see how you can compare states that stop wrestling after the 8th grade to states that continue wrestling to 16U.

Not one of the States is proposing what Kansas is, by having a High School Division. Does that mean we should not have the High School Division, because none of the other states do? No, we make adjustments to our situation. If we want this to pass, 14U High School KIDS, should be given the option.

Notice how you went from a JV wrestler, wrestling 7th and 8th graders to HIGH SCHOOL STATE CHAMPIONS wrestling 7th and 8th graders. Let's not make this into more than it is. The State Champions, I'm sure would wrestle High School. Your Freshmen and JV would be the ones staying in the 14U division. Which IS their AGE GROUP.

I am not making it more than it is. That is exactly how it is NOW! Your age group criteria falls well below the HS/MS criteria in my mind as well as EVERY STATE that I've mentioned. Why do you disagree with every one of those state bodies? Are they doing things wrong or right?

I spoke directly with Oklahoma, who you stated was against High School kids wrestling 8th graders and they were in direct opposition to what you stated.

My opinion would be that they are doing things wrong if wrestling stops at 8th Grade.

How ironic! My Sophmore and I were just discussing something like this just today! It had to do with HS classifications, but it was along the same lines. I have 4 wrestlers in my house, and I am here to tell you that my senior would love to have another year in USA Folksytle, but given the current rules, he can't. My Sophmore, as a Freshman qualified for HS state, and told me today that he liked the challenge of wrestling bigger kids from bigger schools in Kids wrestling. In my opinion, given a choice many of the 14U Freshmen would accept the challenge of wrestling at a HS Level for the Kids program, because most them are going to tell you it is HOW they get BETTER! I also know of a few Seniors that would like the opportunity to extend their Folkstyle season, and not just my son. I also agree that the 14U Freshman wrestle up all HS season, whether it is in the practice room or tournament situations. I for one, will be voting for this change at the meeting.

Sandy Hayes

Actually, some of the toughest HS states already have something like we are proposing. The proposed HS division would be a type of grand state scenario. California has ONE State tournament. We have four.

You want to give the wrestlers an option to MOVE DOWN and NOT UP?

The one High School State Champion is through the HIGH SCHOOL, not KIDS. You act like giving a freshman or first year wrestler the option to wrestle their age group is a bad thing. Do you really think that every freshman is a State Champion, ripped up and ready to wrestle the best in the State. Some will be able to wrestle up others will not. I guarantee some of your freshmen will not make it to state in the 14U division. With allowing all High School wrestlers to participate, most 14U freshmen wrestlers wont even make it out of their subs.

And I'm not giving them the option to wrestle down. They will be required to wrestle 14U, they have the option to move up.

Oklahoma has a High School State tournament and a Junior High State Tournament. They are held on the same weekend. You are talking about 9th graders in Oklahoma that are in a 7/8/9 Junior High?

No, 9th, 10th, 11th, or 12th graders can wrestle in the 15U kids division, as long as they meet the age requirements.

Are you sure its not a case of you agreeing with them and not them agreeing with you? Sometimes different means different , not better! Are you suggesting that if for the last 5 years we would of not allowed freshmen, that fall into the 14U age division, to wrestle in our folk style tournament, that our freestyle results would have been significantly different!! Sorry, I don’t see the cause and effect. Therefore, I don’t believe my stance, or yours, on this issue is having any effect on the development of Kansas wrestlers as it relates to the "National Stage"

There is where we disagree Steve. We will never know until we try. I wonder how Illinois would react if they announced that High School wrestlers were now allowed to enter Junior High State, because they think it will help their development like you do.

First of all who cares what they would think. It would be change for them, it is not change for us. The fact you KEEP ommitting is they can not wrestle after 8th grade. It is not an option.

Chief,
Just so I understand correctly, its better to have a 14 year old freshman wrestle a 19 year old senior than a 13 year old 7th grader wrestle a 15 year old freshman?

We could even put in the bylaws that if a 14U wrestler qualified for high school state they would be required to wrestle in the high school division, just like we do for novices that qualify for kids state their first year, they have to wrestle open their second year not novice.

All 14 year old freshman have wrestled against juniors and seniors the entire high school season, what is the difference between high school and kids state

Diffence is: High School State has 4 different divisions, Kids State would be one division. High School State is High School only, Kids State has kids as young as 5 wrestling, High School State includes 4 grade levels, Kids divides the groups up by age groups of two years. High School State is in February, Kids is in March. High School only 1 Varsity wrestler from each school can compete at each weight, Kids as many kids that want to can sign up and wrestle at a weight. These are just a few of the differences....I'm sure there are more....any other differences?

you also have multipule state champs for each weight in high school 1a 2a 3a 4a 5a 6a

Again, in 4, 5, 6a there was 5 freshmen that placed at 130 or heavier last year, would any of them even made it to kids state if there was 1 high school division? I think not. What is so wrong with them being in 14U? Because 13 year old kids they have wrestled their whole lives would be in the same division? I believe that only 1 of the 5 won a 14U kids state title.