so what is everyones thoughts. I see some tough brackets in 4a. sure see alot of losing records at 5a and 6a level. how in the world does a record of zero wins make it to state. not trying to start anything but now come on the state needs to look at this. Please move 4a back with 5 and 6a.

4A I doubt will never move back to Wichita, plus they have a signed contract with Salina until 2011 or 2013 I think. You will have a hard time convincing coaches to go back to Wichita after what Salina has done for them and did for them when they needed a place to go. It's kind of the same situation as Hays with 321A, it's a pretty central location and a great atmosphere & hospitality & venue.

On the 5/6A losing records, that's whole different story that I don't want to get involved in again, so I'll let it rest.

I have been anticipating this post since this morning. I will tell you how a 0-? wrestler makes it to state. He goes out and does what his coach asks of him. He wrestles his best. Too many on this forum are all wrapped up in records. I have seen hundreds of great records where the wrestlers had NO competition. Coaches take their wrestlers to easy tournaments and are in an easy league, and when it comes to state, they don't even place. The reason, the path was prepared and not the wrestler. It takes more courage to continue to go out and lose matches then it does to win. The kids with losing records go out and wrestle just as hard as those with winning records. How dare anyone rain on the parade of a wrestler who has done what is asked of him, to go out and compete.

guess I didnt know I was raining on anyones parade. I guess my thought of Kansas State Wrestling tournament is the best of the best. Thats the way I was tought while I was wrestling. If thats wrong then shame on me.

I wondered the same thing but then realized that if there is only 4 kids in a weight bracket they all make it no matter their record because they all placed at regionals.

And this is coming from the co-founder of the HA Club. Well said.

I know last year that happened in a number of weights at one 5A regional where there were only 4 kids in the bracket. So save me the 'he goes out and does what his coach asks' speech. Most of the 5 and 6 A brackets are not posted - so no one knows how it happened at this time. Post those brackets and we will see. Verdict is still out. Lets see how they do at state before we judge one way or the other.

Amen!!!!!!
As a coach, all I ask of our wrestlers is great effort in practice and in matches. Daily improvement is our goal.
It takes courage to step on a mat and test yourself against another individual. My hat goes of to all of the wrestlers in the state for their hard work.

I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on wrestlers records either. You take care of business at your regional and your in. We have one kid who broke his leg in the second to last game of football. He's a great kid and good wrestler who has an outside shot of placing. He's been out recovering and healing and trying to get back into shape to help his team. But, he's certainly not comming in with a big record. In some cases you can have a really solid kid with 10-12 loses but it's due to wrestling the same 3 or 4 top ranked kids multiple times. Sometimes you hit the same kids in local tournaments. I'm not saying going undefeated isn't significant (just ask the Indy Colts about that!) But somehow suggesting that a losing or poor record should be a reason to question a kid worthiness for state is really sort of bizarre. I guarantee you there will be tough kids and brackets in all classes.

i have a small question to those who get hung up on records, etc.

let's say a kid splits time for his team, wins challenge matches, but happens to get the short end of the stick. he gets the tough brackets, and studs at duals. his records suffers. let's say he qualifies for state, and has a less than .500 record, yet some of his wins happen to be against a state placer from another class. does he get a plaque? of course not,you wouldn't take away the plaque, so don't take away a qualifiers status. but if you get hung up on classes,rankings, records, etc. you're looking at it all wrong. it's "supposed" to be the best vs the best, ( perceived best anyway) yet it rarely works out that way, in anything . right? not exactly, a state qualifier is a qualifier, a placer is a placer, the rest of the year means very little.

i mean i have seen kids who NEVER qualified for state at 5a beat a 2x 321a champ at kids state, have seen just the opposite also, it has nothing to do with records scott, you have to step on the mat, and beat the other wrestler, end of story. that's what seperates wrestling from other combat sports, NO JUDGING, BETTER SCORING, NO POLITICS, OR PROMOTERS.

every body is 0-0 when regionals start, and rankings are just based on the past. to be the champ you have to win when it counts.

ok so in football do you get to the state tournament without winning. basketball do you get to the state tournament without winning. volleyball, baseball what other sport do you advance without winning at all. thats the point im making. there should be no free passes to the state tournament. I will say this again. when I was a jr in class 5a i won 1 match to get to the finals and ended up going to state with a losing record. I was not there because I really deserved to be. I was there because the system that Kansas has. I dont know how to fix it but guess there is more meaning to winning and earning it then it being handed to you. Yes I do think in the end it will all work out cause the kids that are supposed to place probably will anyways.

Bockman,
Thinking about something and talking about something are different things - seems like just thinking about things is less confrontational. Its kinda like poker - you don't ALWAYS have to show your cards. Don't get me wrong - I like confrontation - "on the mat".

There are just as many complaints about the other sports you name and our system as there is with wrestling, maybe more.

to answer your question, yes, any team in any sport can have a losing record and make the state tourney. i haven't seen any state that has a system in place where a team or athlete must meet a minimum winning percentage to qualify for regionals, sub state, whatever you want to call it. college and pros do of course, and i believe the reasoning state high school rules are different, has to do with school size, funding etc. it may not seem like it now, but don't get hung up on records, rankings, shoulda beens, coulda beens, because like you said it will all work out in the end. I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT BEFORE BEING HANDED THE CHAMPIONSHIP PLAQUE, THE WRESTLERS WILL HAVE 4 MORE WINS THAT WHAT HE/SHE CAME IN WITH. it doesn't always seem that simple, but it really is.

actully your wrong in the fact that those other sports you have to win to advance. sorry just had to point that out to you. Like I said before in my opinion the Kansas State tournament is different. its supposed to be about all the hard work those kids put in all year to get to the big daddy or big dance. I know there will be mixed emotions on this topic but for me I would feel better knowing that I had to work at it to get there. Thats just my opinion.

Were you still excited to be going? All I'm saying is some of these kids are going to "The Big Dance" and they are excited. They don't need a bunch old guys "raining on their parade" by talking them down the week before "The Dance".



What are your credentials to judge these kids? Did you wrestle? What was your record if you did?

Chad im not trying to rain on anyones parade. I just have to look at it this way is you do not have it in the smaller classes but for some reason it does in 5 and 6a. It was like that back in 1989 when I went to state with a losing record and wasnt all that excited just to be going. In fact put yourself in my shoes. If I win my first match at state I get the punishing pleasure to face Hernandez from Ark City. Now I know you had the pleasure of being his beatdown partner so how do you think I felt. All im saying is there should be no free tickets in competative sports. I do not have the answer but just think it makes Kansas look bad overall.

If Kansas looked bad overall then we wouldn't have so many kids wrestling beyond high school.

Try on these shoes. My freshman year I went to state with a losing record 10-11. My first match was against a 25-5 senior. I won that match. My next match was against Sr. Eric Akin, he pinned me. I won my next match and loss the following match to the 3rd place finisher, by 1 or 2 points. I had a losing record, but I deserved to be there. It made me better for the following year, and I did quite a bit better at state. The experience made me better. Some kids have tougher competition throughout the year, and some shine when the lights come on. Let them have their moment, you have no idea the difference it could make for them.

Time to work on a one class system to stop all the whining and complaining. Everyone has a valid point, in their own mind. Until there is one class and one state tournament, these questions will still be there and will have people bringing them up. In a one class system everyone has the same opportunity. Don't give me, well the metro schools have more kids or well the rural schools have to travel more. Regardless of the situation, it is supposed to be the best of the best. Sporto had it correct when he said, "If Kansas looked bad overall then we wouldn't have so many kids wrestling beyond high school." The more we pu**ified we make the sport, the less credible KS wrestling will be in all other states eyes.

When are we as a state going to step up to the plate and do the right thing to get KS wrestling in the forefront?