For the ones that are making statements about qualifiers who either are not "good enough" for state or had a free ticket did YOU ever made it to state? did YOU place or have a free ride? Did YOUR wrestler not make it or are YOU bitter for some other reason? Why take away the accomplishments from those who are there?
Just curious-

Congratulations to ALL the state qualifiers

Well said! If your going to complain about qualifiers not being good enough, you should post your name, state accompishments, and high school record.

Congratulation to ALL State Qualifiers as well.

All of the qualifiers have worked to get where they are gonna be this weekend. Give them the respect they deserve. My hats off to all qualifiers, congrats for making it to the big show and good luck.

I wasnt going to post anything but now I feel like I must. Its not about the records and does he belong there or is he good enough. I was trying to point out the system that lets that happen. Yes I made it to state as a Jr in class 5a. I won 1 match at regionals to get into the finals of regionals. My record going into state was 14-15-1. To this day I look back and say that I really didnt work my butt off to get to state so yes I was excited to get there but once I got there I knew for sure those kids were way better than me. I didnt even want to win my first match knowing I had to wrestle the Hernandez kid from Ark City. Guess maybe I am the only one that feels that way but in my opinion the state tournament is something you have to earn and not winning a match is not earning it. If that makes you all feel mad then get over it. thats my opinion. I do know when I take my son to a camp in Ohio they make jokes about Kansas. Yes I know we have alot of kids go on to wrestle in college this and that but compared to the top dogs its not even close. Kansas has come along way since I was in highschool but is that our goal is to just be in the middle or near the top or is it too much to want to be number one in the country. It all falls in line with each other if you think I got off track.

guess i might as well add this to. my senior year we dropped to 4a. i had a 19-6 record going into regionals. went 0-2 in that regional. our league was in 5a and thats where most of my matches were wrestled. no im not saying 5a overall is a weak class. I will say this over and over that the best in all classes are pretty equal but getting to the state tournament is alot different in some classes. Now im finished with this topic and go ahead and beat my thoughts down but it wont change them. good luck to all the kids wrestling this weekend in all classes.

Lets not jack a positive thread.

Congratulations to all the state qualifers. Good luck and hats off to you!

Beeson & GoArmy,

My name is Steve Mathis. I qualified for 6A state at 167 lbs 3 times (86,87 and 88). If it matters, I placed 2nd and 3rd at State. I didn't have a free pass to state, as I think I had a full bracket. But I'll be honest, it really wasn't that difficult to qualify for state back in the day either. Looks like your comment was pointed at my post, so I'll defend my comment.

I don't think my comments are taking away anything that the state qualifiers have earned. And I wish them all luck, as state is a fun time and good experience for the kids.
I think this is a good time of the year to subjectively discuss what the measure of a state qualifier and what it could be looking forward. As posted earlier, in my very subjective opionion, I think state would be a better experience for the wrestlers, the fans and college coaches, if a smaller amount of wrestlers qualified. The resulting affect would be higher quality level of wrestling. I feel better about my accomplishments when I have to overcome difficult obstacles and really earn it.

I'm with Bockover on Ohio. I lived in Ohio for 4 years and my son wrestled there. To qualify for state you have to win at least 6 rounds in their state series. They have 3 classes with over 500 schools that have wrestling. Its actually more difficult to qualify for state in Ohio than to place in Kansas.
This is also consistent with most of the states in the upper midwest where the wrestling is the best in the country (PA,OH, IA, Il, WI, IN, MI, NY, MN, WI).

You need to check the team results for Senior Nationals for the past umpteen years. You'll find Kansas fits right in there among those you listed. Typically top 10. We will never be better than some of those based on population alone. Just like we'll never produce more D-1 football recruits than Texas.

Doesn't Kansas rank somewhere in the top ten nationally in terms of participants?

If I remember correctly we rank somewhere in there in participation per capita but I'm not sure if that was high school or youth figures.

Population of a state means alot in regards to how deep wrestlers are in each weight class. But I do believe that most states that are active in wrestling, have about the same quality of state champs.
Wrestling requires 4 things in my opinion, genetics, comprehension,spirit, and the availibility to get the proper training.I feel that some kids have some of these traits and a few have all, but it is based mainly on population, not what area you live in.

ok I dont know how they all did but how many of our state champions in the past 10 years won nationals. How did our 2 4 timers do last year. Im not sure but I think they did well but I dont think either one of them won it. Would be interesting to see the kids in those brackets and see if they were 4 timers in their state and even 4 time placers. My son went to the same camp as one of those 4 timers and he had a blast. They do not treat Kansas kids like we are some of the toughest in the us. If I remember right one thing that our coaches over heard them saying is come on kid your not in Kansas anymore you need to get with the program here in Ohio. So lets not measure it by the size lets measure it with our best vs. everyone elses best. Yeah we might be in the top 10. Thats great if thats your goal. Im not much of a follower and more of a leader and want me kid to be that way to.

They didn't! The three-timer won it.

like I said im not saying Kansas doesnt produce great wrestlers cause we do. Now compare our best to other states best and I think we are still top 10 but not 1. So sporto if thats your goal then thats ok with me. My goal is to be 1. Thats its.

That's fine if you want to set unrealistic goals. I was always taught to set goals that were achievable. We will never be #1! Take that to the bank.

I can hear Jeff Jordan saying it "you're not in Kansas anymore Eck!!!" but he is not saying it at all to run down Kansas wrestling. He's not ever going to let ANY state think they are tougher than Ohio, whether they are or not, but he has a great deal of respect for Kansas wrestling. His boy Mick and several of the Brawlers go at it pretty hard at that camp. His older boy Bo schools everyone, no matter what state you are from. Jordan knows that there are KS state champs that can beat Ohio state champs at times, and vice versa. But there is no doubt that Ohio and other states are much deeper at each weight than we are. That is the good thing about going to Jordan camp, you will ALWAYS find someone that can whip you, or as coach Jordan says, "if you can whip all the kids here, and you can whip all of my camp counselors, I guarantee you won't whip me"

The other thing to keep in mind, and it is not an excuse, but very few of the Ohio top wrestlers do anything except wrestle.

Doug your right but the fact is that we are not number one whether we wrestle year around or not. I would guess alot of the multi state champs in Kansas wrestle most of the year. Yes they might play baseball or football but I bet most of them wrestle in the summer. I cant believe I heard somebody say we will never be number one. Thats like when a kid in your room says I cant and you tell him not to say that. Maybe I should just quit wrestling and let my kids play basketball because Kansas is number one and K-state is top 5. Thanks sporto your at the top of everyones hero list in kansas wrestling.

I might disagree on that. Ask any college wrestling coach and they will tell you state champs from different states are not equal. That's like saying a PA state champ is good as a Missouri state champ (lets pick on Missouri). I don't think i'm exaggerating when I say college coaches would look at a state placer out of Pennsylavania before looking at a state champ from most of the other states including Kansas. Just look at the stats of where the recruits come out of. You will see PA, NJ and OH dominate, thats because the quality is so high there. And yes these states have higher populations but also have fewer classes, which means it the kids that make the state champ are going to be outstanding and have the skills that really seperate them from the other wrestlers.

No back to point. I think the whole philosophical point is that by having a smaller supply of rewards (state champs and state placers, state qualifiers), will create a higer level of competition to obtain the reward. With a higher level of competion you create more and higher quality of wrestlers. Now this philosophy is different that the KS approach that states lets reward more wrestlers with state championships and state placers. I'm just comparing results and come that conclusion that these states with lower amount of classes (lower amount of rewards) consistently produce the most college recruits and NCAA all-americans.

Example of support:

NCAA 2009 finalists by state

Pennsylvania 3 Number of classes 2
Indiana 3 Number of classes 1
Ohio 3 Number of classes 3
New Jersey 3 Number of classes 2 (I think)


12 out of 20 = 60% from these 4 states. Whate are they doing right?

I still go back to population, Pa. has a population of twelve million. Ks. has a population of two and a half million.
If Kansas had four times as many kids wrestling we would have the same results or better. Like I said before, there are a certain no. of great kids per capita, if the training is available.

Bockman, you are not allowed to say that word on this forum.........this is your first warning.