You CLAIM that Colt should be on the list and that SOMEONE on that list needs to be OFF. You just have no idea who. It's getting old.....and sad.

According to one of my sources Ryne Cokeley has a win over the NE kid that Colt lost too.

Chief,

I certainly do not want to start another big scene, but I guess we have a few months. What about Daniel Deshazer? Where does he fit into these discussions of Kansas' elite? I just read the 100 win thread of his high school record of 102 and 3 with 2 state championships and a runner up.

I do not know much about his national tournament history, but I am familiar with his impressive USAW kids credentials.

Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Signed,
Sleepless in Seattle

SiS,

He was on the original 15 list and made the list of 10. I hope to see him run the table again next year. He should make the FF in 2011.

You cannot compare kid's state to high school state in anyway... it's usually 3 weeks after High School in which most athletes train to peak at the end of February not March, and also most athletes begin playing other sports and only practice an hour or two, 2 or 3 times a week instead of everyday for 2 or 3 hours.

It is not apples to apples. A former roommate of mine wrestled in the senior classic which is the same weekend as kid's state (or close too) and he said he basically quit training after wrestling was over, he was a 1x Champ & 2x Runner-up and he basically said he didn't care what happened in the classic, it was just for fun and that it meant nothing. Probably a lot of mentalities like that out there would be my guess.

I understand that, but he's won 2 high school state championships and been a runner up to a 42 and 1 Chaz Lawrence the other year.

Different or not, you cannot completely ignore 10 in a row kids state championship.

Like I said, I know they are different, but he's won both kinds. More than once.

Ok, wow, this has gone way bad which I know was not intended.

I love the Fab 5 list and I love the All Class rankings. They are really entertaining and I love entertainment especially when it is free. I would never want to see them outlawed. Also though, I would never want to see them used in a derogatory manner, especially to the "kids", which they have been in the past and are presently. I would never say the lists are garbage, but I do understand sometimes when people do not agree with them and get offended or defensive as I have myself.

First off, Congratulations Colt Rogers and family and Smith Center program. What an amazing career you have had. I enjoyed watching you wrestle at the Manhattan duals and you were everything they said you were Colt.

Secondly, thanks Chief. I love your work and I really appreciate your time and efforts. I really enjoyed meeting you and your family at state and talking to you. Job well done, keep up the good work.

As a 4 timer, I can't see any way that Rogers could not be on the Fab 5 list.....except that it is already filled with 5 "Fabulous" wrestlers (sorry Doug, I had to say it). It is apparently a bad year to be a 4 timer, I guess timing is everything. Well maybe not everything, but in this instance a factor and surely it is never a bad time to be a 4 timer.

I would certainly hope that Colt is not not on the list because of the two losses at Kid's "State". I mean come on. I do not like it when Kid's State is used to punish kids and in a way, it is with regard to the Fab 5 and the All Class. I went through that before the season with the first installation of the All Class list. Winning Kid's State is an honor but we all need to accept the fact that Kid's "State" is not STATE. It is nice to wrestle kids from other classes in a "state" setting and make some degree of comparison but it is not STATE. Kid's may not be in top shape for kid's and/or their focus and intesity is not the same. I don't think you can compare them. Kid's use it to get extra competition and work on their skills and "mat" experience and savy. As I said earlier in the season, as a head coach I have had kids that won STATE and did not win Kid's State and I have had kids that won Kid's State and did not win STATE. I have even had some that won both. And many that won neither. But I can tell you with certainty, they all had one thing in common and that is they would have much rather won STATE than Kid's State. College recruiters don't ask how many times you won Kid's State. In college programs when the publish state champion they don't mean Kid's State. When people on the street say "did you win state", they mean STATE. Everybody in and out of the wrestling circle , when they say "did you win state", we all know what they mean. I guess you could say, "well I didn't win STATE, but I won Kid's State" and they would look at you strangely and say.....ok. Kid's State should not be used to punish wrestlers ever. But does it really matter? Not really, unless Chief is going to produce a Fab 5 shirt as he did with the All Class list. Then it would definitely matter to me. It is Chief's list though and he has set the criteria. It is what it is.

I really, in all honesty, after great thought and consideration, think that, Colt should be on the list. But I wouldn't know where to start as far as who to bump. Could you really bump anyone? No, not really. We could, for this year only, because of extenuating circumstances, make a revision and change the Fab 5 to the Super 6 or 6 Shooters or better yet the Spectacular 6 and then I could call a fabulous wrestler a spectacular wrestler instead because that's a cool word too and that would make Doug happy. So without further ado, I proclaim to all the new and improved:

Spectacular 6
Colt Rogers
Cade Blair
Ryne Cokeley
Parker Madl
Taylor Moeder
Chase Nitcher

If Chief can make a list, I can too.

And I promise you that I am being completely sincere about this with the greatest degree of respect to Colt Rogers and all intereted parties, Colt Rogers deserves no less than that.

And now I can hopefully focus my attention on the All Class list because you know I got something to say about that, just not time right now.

Good to see you chime in again X. The Spectacular 6! I like it!

P.S. As an explanation, Colt's losses at kids state were never used against him. They were only mentioned as a response to the multiple claims that he never lost to a Kansas kid.

Chief,

I was responding to Alex's post, which I did not fully understand by the way, not yours.

I think we confused each other. I was just stating that people were saying he never lost to a Kansas kid, I guess I wasn't clear, he never lost to a Kansas kid during the High School season.

On my former roomate, he's my age so he wouldn't have wrestled anyone Colt has wrestled.

I thought you were referring to my comment about Daniel Deshazer's 10 kids championships.

i thought you were commenting on me commenting about that other comment made by that guy with the most ridiculous comment.

I was, but then I changed my other mind and didn't.

XGHSWC,
Could one not argue that kids state could actually be harder then STATE due to the fact that it could combine all the classes?
6A 5A 4A and 321A
A chance for multiple STATE champions to be in one bracket to create one true KIDS STATE CHAMPION???

again did colt have an awesome career...yes. but who do you take off the list to put colt on it....i think the heads up one you would have to take off would be taylor moeder...would colt have beet him. no and i would of love to have seen that match but it never happened......taylor by major or fall....just my thaughts.

One could, and quite effectively!

You could argue about anything that you wanted to.
Did you not read my entire post and consider what I said?
I said, twice now, in 20 years as a head coach, I have had kids that won Kid's State but not STATE, kids that have won STATE but not Kid's State, kids that have won both and kids that have won neither. That right there should answer your question. Sometimes it's harder. But sometimes it's not. I have seen some monster brackets at Kid's State and I have seen some monster brackets at STATE. It depends on the year and the weight just like everything else in wrestling. The point was that STATE, although not always harder, is considered more important and the fact that every kid I have ever coached would have rather won STATE than Kid's State verifies that. And that most Kid's are not going to apply themselves for Kid's State as much as they would for the "real" STATE. Therefore, I do not believe that Kid's State performance should be used to "punish" kids in terms of their credibility with regard to entertaining things like the Fab 5, the All Class rankings, etc. particularly with regard to the Colt Rogers "situation". Chief said that was not a factor and I am happy with that. Yes, A REAL GRAND STATE would solve all of our problems, wouldn't it, so they say. But would it really? Probably not. We may never know. But thanks for the unwarranted constructive criticism. And have a great day!

Wrong Chief. Can't believe you went there with me.
My son did not place last year as a freshman at STATE, one win short. He then went to Kid's State in 16U and took 2nd defeating the 3A STATE runnerup in the semi's. So I know he wouldn't agree. And I have seen that 100 times, lots of kids that didn't place at STATE that placed a month later at Kid's State. So I know they wouldn't agree either. Kid's State was a consolation prize so to speak. But again refer to my previous post.
You could argue, but certainly not EFFECTIVELY. But have a great day!

16 and under in the heavier weights has typically been easier at kids than in high school because you lose the juniors and seniors that tend to dominate those weights in high school.

Lighter weights at 16 and under are often tougher than high school and become more like a grand state as you get the toughest from all of the high school classifications, most of which are underclassmen.

But that was when it was just 16U
Now that there is a true HS division the possibilities are endless.
As long as Sr. Nationals are on a different weekend KIDS STATE could really tell us who the true All Class and Fab 5 are!
STATE does not offer that!

Now I agree that most colleges look at the HS record but over time KIDS STATE could answer alot of questions and maybe start to draw the colleges attention!