It goes both ways many times. In Bo's weight at kids last year there was a 3a state runner up that got 4th at kids districts behind kids that did not even place at kids state.

I do believe that a HS state title means more to the kids. There are cases where state kids brackets are harder and sometimes where HS brackets are harder. It just depends on who stays out after HS and wrestles kids. I do know the same dedication and passion is not put into the kids finale after they come off a tough HS season. Some kids move up weights, some don't. Some kids care about it some don't. Bo is not even wrestling kids this year for the first time since he was 5, as he said last year. "kids just isn't the same for me after I give everything I got to a HS season." "My goals are different." He is just going to take a break for a month then wrestle some freestyle.

Just one persons perspective. Not right or wrong.

Will they ever be on a different weekend?
I wouldn't count on a Grand State enviroment even with the new division. You will still have two and three sport athletes going off to represent their schools in a spring sport. Also, you have some that are just worn out after a long, tough high school season and want some rest before FS/GR starts, etc.
I wouldn't bet against some type of national folkstyle tournament jumping in against our qualifying series at some point in the future. That could and would take some of our talent elsewhere just like Brute did that first year.

For many of our kids who play a spring sport such as baseball, the kids wrestling season is not their number one priority and their shape is not nearly what it is during the last few weeks of the high school season. When I attended (as a spectator only, KSHSAA!) the kids state championship series, I saw a lot of high school kids wrestling 3 or 4 weight classes too heavy and in average wrestling shape at best.

Just my observationPr

I feel it is the appropriate time to respond. I am a regular reader, but first and last time poster. First off, it is a shame people get on forums like this, critisizing kids while hiding behind screen names. First lets address Mr. Cokleys concern over Smith Centers strength of schedule. As by all his previous posts, Norton is the only 321A school that steps up. Wresting small Nebraska and Colorado schools will not cut it. I believe that to be an accurate reflection of his posts. If I remember correctly, Smith Center has dualed Godddard, Blue Springs, Abilene, Mannhattan, Kearney Neb, Grand Island High, Montana Sky View.
Goddard 2009, 2010 6A State Champs
Blue Spings- i thought they were a large class Missouri power
Grand Island- 2009, 2010 Class A state champs, state record team points scored.
Kearney-2010 Class A state Rummer up
Abilene-2009-2010 4A top 5

Tounament Schedule includes Colby, Clay Center, Abilene, Scott City which I believe is 3 of the top teams in 4A in 2009,and and 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th place teams in 4A in 2010.

Before we go further, this is not a plea for being placed on the Fab Five, I could care less about the Chiefs lists. Just an attempt to get Will's shorts out of a wad. I know of no one from Smith Center or affilitaed with SC thats has been on here claiming Colt is better than anyone on the FF. I mean if we hired a world class wrestler to train us, spent10-11 months wrestling,only focused on ONE SPORT, SHOULDN'T YOU BE BETTER, if not, then there would be serious problem. As far as someone on the FF beating 8 state champs. Lets see.

Colt Wins over SC


Houlden - Goddard 2nd 2009, 1st 2010
Seibel- Salina South 1st 2010
Campbell-Oakley 1st 2010
Keiswetter, K-NOrton 1st 2010
Keiswetter, L -Norton 1st 2010
Haas- Silver lake 2 x state champ
Tovar- Emporia 1st
Peters -Augusta 1st
Madl BV 2x state Champ?
Weigel Plainville 1st 2009
Zahorsky-Pburg/silver lake Nebraska Camp all star match
Don't count Kash Biddle 1st 2010, not head to head, Colt just beat the kid from Penn. that beat Kash, Brute
Don't count Devon Frye- Eureka former sc, cause that was not head to head, just was in bracket.

As for his losses at kids, Mainze was his opponent in the finals two years prior to the lose. Colt controlled that match from start to finsih. I felt the rematch was a match he overlooked and took for granted. I believe that was a good lesson for him, no matter who you wrestle, you must be mentally ready.. As for the loss to Hentzen, that was at 135 two years ago. What weight did he wrestle this year? 130 Hentzen looked like somebody cutting from around 145-150, I know Colt weighed 128 when we got home from state. I believe the finalsts at 130 were Campbell and Hood, which Hood won in a close match. Colt pinned and Teched Jace the previous year. He did however get the chance to beat Tovar twice during State series.

I doubt some on the FF know what it is like to finish a 13 game schedule, have your body beat to hell, get seven practices, and step on the mat and beat the likes of Houlden and Strauss, as well as losing a two point match to Greco of Blue Springs. Will indicates we wrestle no one, but isn't Strauss the opponent Ryne faced in his Championship match. I guess we really can't count that as a True State Championship as his opponent does not really qualify as worthy. Colt beat Strauss twice last year, first time at Abeline duals tournament, then at Beloit by Fall. I sure he was a much better opponent when he wrestled Ryne, just not when he wrestled Colt.

As for seeking out the best competition by bumping up to get better competition. What happens to Taylor or Ryne's teammates when they bump up. Does everyone have to bump up, or the teammate above just have to sit out and watch. How does that fit into the team concept. Is seeking out the toughest tournaments in the state what is best for the team. What if your TEAM is young and inexperienced, nothng like a good butt kicking for most of the TEAM so that a few will benefit.

As for choices, WIll is right on. It is OUR choice to compete in three sports. Our choice to do as we choose, no matter how disappointing it may be to him. As someone said, in an earlier post, comparing big schools to small sschools is like comparing appples to oranges. If small school athletes chose to specialize then other programs would suffer, they sure would not be of the quality that the NEW YORK TIMES would want to write a book about. I can not speak for other small school wrestlers, but when wrestling is over, Track starts, if we go to BRUTE or do kids, that means we may get down on the mat twice a week AFTER a two hour track pracitce, and roll around for 30 minutes. I doubt the two Rempes or McCall saw the mat after wrestling season ended until they wrestled in the Senior Classic.

I feel bad for others, who have been brow beat, for simply stating their opinion on the matter, so much for freedom of speech, lest you be taken to the wood shed and put in your place.

I guess what REALLY Matters is, neither COLT nor I are concerned to much about the naysayers. It is what it is, HE IS A 4 TIME STATE CHAMP, the fourth in 321A. I guess will keep him!

MIKE ROGERS

Well since you are naming the state champs that colt has beaten over his career then i guess i would be happy to research the state champs that moeder has beaten over his high school career. Because as it says in Quagmires post those victories over 8 State champs came from ONLY THIS HIGH SCHOOL SEASON. With the strength of St James schedule I'm sure that there are numerous victories moeder has over mutiple state placers and runner ups also.

Actually this is a rediculous topic, plus this and other topics such as 654321A All decade teams. How do you determine if this year's 4 time could beat a 4 timer from 11 years ago. Wrestling is a here and now sport. That was then and now is now. Chief should delete this topic and not do it next year. Too many airheads and supposed experts making comments they can not back up. All they are are opions--and we all have them.

Thank goodness the HS seson is over. Now if we can just call an end to the "howevers" and the "buts" it will have been another great year.

Colt did not make the list and it is of no concern to his family. I say let's just drop it and do not continue to tarnish what this kid has done for KS sports.
We should just thank all of these boys and their families for their dedication and hard work and let it go.
Does he deserve to be on the list...
IDK Ask Chief
Its his list. Either make your own list or just leave well enough alone.
Congrats to Colt and Thank You for giving us years of wrestling excitement.
Good Luck to you.

WOW!! Great post Mike. I would definitely like to say congratulations to Colt on another great season and 4 state titles. He's a phenomenal wrestler and a fine young man, aside from the plethora of goofy hats that are worn. (haha just joking) It's pathetic that some are trying to take away from such a great accomplishment. Colt shouldn't even pay attention to it. It's the opinion of one person that doesn't even know him or any of the other smaller school kids. I'm sure Schumacher from TMP will be dealing with the same thing in two years. Good luck to Colt with all his future endeavors.

Incredible. After compiling rankings for the entire state, I recognize those that I believe are the top 5 wrestlers in our state. By doing that, in some contorted way it is "trying to take away" a wrestlers accomplishments. Have we really slid down the slippery slope that far? We can't understand that honoring someone does not always have to imply that someone is harmed?

Maybe schools should change their grades to "Pass" and "Almost passed and you tried so hard, good job".

I'm telling you Chief you would catch less slack with a #1 pound for pound. You watered it down, and everyone wanted to be a part of it. Make it just one, and you will still have complainers, but no one will feel slighted. Lists are to long. There needs to be only one. My vote would be.....Parker Madl

Chad,

Don't say it! Please, I'm begging you.

Too late.

The key phrase here is "that I believe are the top 5". It's Chief's list. He can put whoever he wants on it. For those of us who have actually watched Colt wrestle for the past 4 years, he would make all of our lists.

Goodland has wrestled both 4A and 3,2,1A since I have been an assistant coach here and both classes have their tough wrestlers. I have had the pleasure to watch several of the wrestlers on the list, VC and Goodland have had some close duals at the Colby Dual tournament. I believe that Colt is one of the best I have seen wrestle and I know from listening to other wrestlers, he is considered a stud amongst his peers. Hats off to his many great accomplishments as an athlete in our great state and I wish him all of the luck in the future.
In response to the demands on many small school athletes, I do know that many of our kids are doing both kids wrestling and track, my son spends four hours a night, 3 times a week practicing for the two sports. At many of the small schools out here in Northwestern Kansas, we ask our young student athletes to fill many roles and often to be three sport athletes. I am proud of the effort our kids give us and the sacrifices they make for their school and community.

I do have opinions on this but will keep them to myself to avoid the beating that would follow..However I do feel this is earned...
Mike, HATS OFF TO YOU FOR HAVING YOUR SON'S BACK!!!! I know that because of the HEART, WORK ETHIC, AND WILL TO WIN that Colt has, he has been the victim of a bunch of idiots who love to hate the winner!!
Wait, I do have an opinion....COLT ROGERS is a winner in every sense of the word....I don't give $*#* about what size of school your from, if you can leave High School with 3 State Football Championships (and 1 loss!!) as a four year starter, 4 State Wrestling Championships, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a State Track Individual Championship, you deserve some respect and not to be belittled by anyone. You are an all around ATHLETE, not JUST a wrestler. I am not from Smith Center but have been treated to four years of top notch and classy entertainment by Colt and his teammates and to them I say thanks for letting me get my money's worth. 1000's of kids in this state would give an arm and a leg to experience what you have achieved.
Leave the kid alone for heavens sake. What did he do to you anyway? Other than maybe put a whoopin on your kid or stole his thunder. Thanks for listening....now let me put my sparring pads on before you start finding fault with my kid and beating me down.

Lets just keep making lists and printing T-shirts it seems to be working out fine! Seriously I believe this forum is misused when we digress into discussions about who’s tougher then who!, or who deserves this or that (real or imaginary) honor. The kids earn their awards on the mat at the end of the year as it should be! Now because of the different classifications we may not see the match-ups we would like to, but it is what it is, and the pointless arguments over pointless lists benefits no one.

Let's blame it on the shirt! Discussions about who's tougher than who are not for talk forums? What?

****The 2nd Annual FAB FIVE is.....****

In alphabetical order.

2010 - FAB FIVE:

Cade Blair - VC
Ryne Cokeley - SJA
Parker Madl - BV
Taylor Moeder - SJA
Chase Nitcher - VC



1st FAB FIVE - 2009

Boaz Beard
Tyler Caldwell
Kyle Detmer
Kendric Maple
CJ Napier

here's my take, the fab 5 are solid, but rogers is one on the most decorated athletes in ks state history. of all the 4x champs, how many have been key contributors to their 3x football championship teams? i know a couple of years back colgan high school in pittsburg was fball,bball, baseball state champs in one year, may have happened twice, other than that colt has to be the most decorated. i know romero cotton was 4x in fb and wrestling, but were they undefeated for four years?

I agree! As we see, you can't explain some kid being named to these imaginary lists without detracting from some other kid's accomplishments.

By the way, to translate for Mr. Cokely and you other big school eastern kansas guys, I think what Mr. Rogers was saying (in a very nice way) was to kiss his (and Colt's) 4 time state winning, football championship winning, western kansas a_s.

And as a note, Mr. Rogers, well said.

I don't know enough about these kids to comment on whether colt should be considered one of the top 5 wrestlers in kansas or not but people who keep saying that he is getting disrespect i don't quite understand. it seems to me that some people think he is the 3rd or 4th best wrestler in the state while others think he is maybe 6th or 7th. that's not a disrespectful opinion at all. no one has any doubt that colt rogers had an amazing wrestling career that was one part of an amazing athletic career. now whether he is the 5th best wrestler in the state or the 6th is debatable; but just because someone says he's 6th does not mean they disrespect him.